ST: BATSUGUN!

[Randorama]

Thank you for replying so quickly!~

This is a bit of text, but it does not concern just this game, but info in general.

Actually, I posted this, not to ask you to change anything, but so that there is more info for newer players to the game to find @_@"...

I urge you to keep this thread around, it really has been super helpful to me!~

It is natural, I think, that with enough time, new strategy and new information will always be discovered, but that does not always make old wisdom suddenly useless or irrelevant I feel ^_^"...

If old information is always deleted, I think we also lose the history and steps on how each STG is learned.

At the end of the day, a lot of strategies, routes, etc, is a collective effort of the whole community which we all discuss and learn from each other over the years.

And I never believe in older information becoming "obsolete" because sometimes newer routes have higher skill ceiling and older routes maybe safer for either live stream event or newer player.

Please think about it! Thank you!~

(Edit: P.S. I also wanted to say, this thread, was a lot more helpful than the Shmups Wiki!)

Well, you could open a new thread with updated information and cure the thread for posterity, so to speak. All of my STs were originally designed as drafts that would have been removed once someone with actual expertise on the game would have been able to write a proper ST. For instance, I once opened an ST for Raiden DX that was just a collection of random notes reporting incorrect information, and that inspired SaucyKobold to write a technically impeccable ST for the game, to take the place of my old and obsolete ST. Having STs to stick around when they are not accurate anymore may be historically interesting ("Oh, when did we first have some documents on this game?") but might also be misleading (see the wrong instructions that you mention). Wikis usually report accurate information on their main webpages, and history of edits in the "history" file; we do not have this tool here.

If you want, you can copy and paste the ST and open a new ST thread for it. I will delete this and the other STs for the aforementioned reasons. Perhaps, you may update the wiki directly and open a new ST using the wiki as a main reference, too. Or maybe, the "shmups historians" (three cheers for self-attributed titles!) behind the shmups wiki can think of yet another solution. Outside a handful of threads from which I also extract the shmups reviews, I have no desire to maintain other threads on the forum. Younger generations could take this responsibility, take flak because people constantly complain about imperfections in documents involving unpaid work and generally learn how unpleasant is to deal with childish attitudes. I do research for a living, so I am willing to take flak at minimal rate per hour, PayPal payments accepted.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I will delete this thread by the end of this month anyway, as per original plans.

Don't do that; nuking an old thread isn't really necessary and it's sometimes interesting to see how information has been updated and changed from our original knowledge. It can also be handy to have old threads as reference material in case a new thread introduces errors. You can simply edit the original post with a large disclaimer at the top that the material in question is old and not necessarily current and to please refer to a newer ST guide. You can also change the text size of the post to shrink it down so it's clear it's not regarded as current, but the data therein remains accessible.

If you don't want to be pinged about posts to old ST threads I believe you can disable notifications per thread as well.

[Randorama]

Roo:

I am dissatisfied with the old STs because many were poorly written (e.g. no spaces after commas, no references) and a few contain wrong information I never bothered to double-check (e.g. the "Pig moves" in this ST). Re-writing them would cost me more time and patience than I currently have. I

have uploaded research material of mine on papers' repositories before actual publication in the past, but I always deleted intermediate versions after publication. More in general, once a version of an article can be considered "ready", it is up to the authors to decide if previous drafts including mistakes can remain online. I do not like the idea, so I do not like having these STs lying around also because I do not want to have final versions of them. Again, there are better sources around (other STs, the wikis, etc.), and people with apparently more time and titles for the task.

Anyway, personally believe that the shmups wikis could provide way more flexible and useful tools for recording and updating information: the main/front pages report what is known to be correct about a game, and the history file can report historical facts about information gathering, as "back-end" material. This whole section could use a general overhaul, but such a project would require a few people coordinating the effort and actually doing some unpaid work as a hobby.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, younger generations could also take responsibility and work on the STs for free, while possibly copping flak from the occasional trolls who complain about information not being perfect or even ordering authors around (e.g. "don't do that"). This would entail that people would need to spend some (serious?) time writing these documents in an intelligible manner, for the good of a community of...oh, just read a few posts and you know what I am not going to write down. Basic fact: most people here would rather die than actually make an "effort for the community". If you disagree, please let me know how the new Giga Wing ST is shaping up. 2018? I was still in Guangzhou, I guess?

I will delete all old STs of mine by the 30th of September, and I will put on ignore all users who will post comments that are not pro-active statements showing the will to preserve and improve whatever information is actually correct in the STs (e.g. explanation of basic mechanics that might be more accurate than those in the wikis. For once in two decades, people can show that they can be arsed to sit down and write meaningful posts, instead of begging me not to delete obsolete materials and actually work on edits because people cannot be arsed to take matters in their hands.

Love the hobby? Do something for the "community" yourselves, and enjoy the results of your hard work.

EDIT:

I will delete this ST on the 2025/09/30. Anyone who is willing the incorporate information from this ST in future STs is welcome to do so before that date. The STG wiki page for the game represents a simply superior source, but some readers might want to preserve parts of this now obsolete ST for their own personal reasons. Readers who wish to complain about this decision can read Sistem11's message in the DonPachi ST from 10 years ago for some background.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Basic fact: most people here would rather die than actually make an "effort for the community". If you disagree, please let me know how the new Giga Wing ST is shaping up. 2018? I was still in Guangzhou, I guess?

Dude, in the kindest possible way: what the fuck's wrong with you?

Apparently writing three separate STs for the forum, two of which I crossposted on Shmups Wiki (I suck at Wiki formatting and there's sadly limited interest in SideLine) isn't good enough for you. My scoring, much as I love Giga Wing for survival play, is still embarrassingly low and until I improve I still feel many other people could do it better justice. That doesn't mean you need to nuke old forum posts, that defeats the point of a forum's archival benefits and sometimes it's fun to go back over old posts. Instead of suggesting people simply can't be bothered to make an effort, consider that a lot of people have imposter syndrome and feel uncomfortable writing authoritatively on something they're not fully knowledgeable about.

You're an asshole.

edit:

I hope that one day you will grow up and learn manners; your posting history suggests that I am cultivating a chimeric hope, with men-children like you.

and a massive hypocrite, goddamn



the super edit of superedits:

I won't waste my breath expecting an apology (he's lying about the date, the last conversation about Giga Wing we had was April 2021), but for the record Rando's suggestion that I'm not making an "effort for the community" because there's no new Giga Wing strategy thread is rather obnoxious.

Writing is hard, as he well knows and has commented. He keeps lamenting that nobody else has taken over any of his many threads, but really, being confident enough to make an authoritative and relatively accurate thread is a challenge, and suggesting it must be laziness that stops people from making guides on the forum is intellectually dishonest and devalues the people who've developed the skills to make some really, really damn good guides. He wants more accurate, up-to-date guides that don't appear half-assed, but even if you have the skill and game familiarity, writing something useful for a high-speed action game can be difficult. We should consider ourselves fortunate to have some amazing guides available and generally good threads with reference material compiled! Video guides in a lot of cases can be more useful or are simply popular, and there's a lot of players that have started making guides in that format. The forum format also means that the initial poster ends up having the responsibility for the guide and edits, unlike a Wiki where there's less responsibility on one writer to "lead" and revise the information, which likely makes it more pressure for someone to be the one to make and run a thread compared to a Wiki entry where someone can make a short entry and then leave it to be fleshed out by others.

As far as I'm personally concerned, the reason I haven't written anything is not laziness, but rather something far more embarrassing I've told him before: I suck at Giga Wing. I know several people IRL who can score vastly higher than I can. It feels weird to be writing a guide when my score is below 50 trillion when people on the forum here can quadruple that. Sure, I can write for days about survival play, but neglecting to talk about scoring in a game with tons of scoring depth feels rather half-assed, and while I was feeling ambitious and wanting to improve, I simply haven't been able to. I'm still not terribly good at the scoring side of things though and trying to write a definitive guide on a game with a really fun scoring system while neglecting said scoring system makes me feel like a poser. By the way, thanks for the reminder Rando that I suck at a game I love, my self-esteem appreciates the hit. :/

When he complains that people "don't wanna write stuff" what he neglects is that I've told him I don't want to write stuff about GW yet. If he'd really bothered to pay attention, I do try to write about games I love, specifically after I obsessively play them to the point where I feel I'm an authoritative figure on them, and usually play them well enough to have good video reference material. Once I've really, really gotten good at a game do I feel comfortable passing myself off as some kind of authority on the game. For reference, here's a list of things I have written guides for and the circumstances:

Iffermoon: Clearing everything and meeting the superboss requires 4 playthroughs on increasingly hard difficulties. I got damn good at it before I ever sat down to write my first FAQ.

Wild West C.O.W. Boys of Moo Mesa: A friend got me into this and I played it a massive amount for a long period of time until I had 2-ALL clears of both major revisions on Youtube including one that gets through loop 1 deathless. I've talked about it extensively under the R2RKMF thread, documented version changes, and can crank out 1ccs without breaking a sweat. I know this game damn well.

SideLine: I fell in love with this game and played it to the point where I got to nearly the end of the 8th loop in a game. I can absolutely talk anyone's ear off about the game, I have quality footage on Youtube, I know where all the secret 1UPs are, weapon and boss strats, etc. I've not seen any Youtube footage that has as high of a score, there's a few people who've played a few loops but not to the point where the high score entry screen appears to glitch out like it does!

Raiga Strato Fighter: I've been told my 2-All nomiss clear has the highest known scoring on recorded footage. There's higher scores players in Japan have managed (wish I wish I could see, I frustratingly can't puzzle where to squeeze out more points) but my skills at this when I was playing extensively were damn good. I still wonder if writing a text guide for the levels is helpful or if simply having the video reference is sufficient, but there's a strategy guide there at least.

Halley's Comet: I got into this game in a big way, ended up getting 2 separate counterstop clears that beat loop 2, the first live at a gaming meet that wasn't recorded, and then again privately so I had something for Youtube. Haven't managed to counterstop the Switch port sadly, the added input lag due to Switch hardware has made it a bit difficult for me to clear Loop 2.

Gunstar Heroes: Wrote about beating the Genesis and Game Gear versions on max difficulty as well as the arcade version. The Genesis ver on Expert is by no means a free 1CC. I'm not as good as that one player that did it without taking damage though!

Bayonetta: I'm one of the best players in the world. Not quite the best, but I have a clear I've not seen anyone else replicate and have a full story run that doubles as a walkthrough with details on how to tackle each fight that gets the best ranking on the hardest difficulty without resorting to a commonly used exploit people normally use to get Pure Platinums. I've also taken the time to extensively respond to viewers asking for advice on my most-commented video, the first Lost Chapter: Angel Slayer clear I got as a Pure Platinum

Obscure: I went to the effort of making a full video based walkthough of the Hard mode complete with text commentary.

Dark Souls: Fully commentated challenge run.

None of my Youtube stuff is monetized by the way; it's all because if I'm getting really good at a game I figure I should probably serve as a resource for others, the way other great channels have helped me out in the past (like Tomatyesc's Bayonetta focused channel).

I also have other various other miscellaneous videos like a quick Progear primer that wasn't intended as a proper guide but rather something I could show to people who kept asking for explanations on how to play when I was hanging out in a friend's stream, and some really old stuff like a Streets of Rage 3 playthrough as Roo that was commentated before anyone else had recorded a run as him (much better players have since put up SoR3 runs that beat it with Roo deathless). But these aren't as in-depth or detailed as the stuff I've mentioned above.

My point is: I really, really want to know a game inside out before I start writing a guide about it, and sadly I just don't feel I've managed to get to that point with Giga Wing yet (thanks again Rando for the utterly tactless remarks, real motivating). It's not laziness; it's me sucking and feeling utterly unqualified to do so. Like, I can watch a high scoring superplay but I can't knowledgeably discuss what's happening and the timing as well as I'd like, and I definitely can't replicate it properly. :/ As per our last discussion in his thread (in 2021, not 2018), I was hoping I'd be able to play more Giga Wing and feel like I'd improved good enough to take it over and try writing about it since he didn't want to be responsible for the thread... but my attempts at improving my scoring have largely fallen flat the past few years. Rather embarrassingly, I might add. So I figured if someone else better got to it before me they could take over the thread and potentially do a better job. Maybe I'll get better someday, I don't know. :/

After consistently failing to improve at Giga Wing's scoring, having to wake up today to someone insinuating that I haven't been making enough of an "effort for the community" with respect to Giga Wing really fucking stings. I still feel I have tons to learn with Donpachi for that matter, I can reach the 2-5 TLB with Type-B but I've hit a wall and I can't quite beat the damn thing despite many, many attempts. :(

So yeah. Instead of wallowing in misery at not having seen the progress I'd hoped for in Giga Wing and Donpachi, I've been taking an extended break and just focused my efforts on other games... My current projects include a Starcrawlers guide where I need to replay it a few times to cover as much as the alternate story paths as possible, and a video walkthrough of Wrath of Earth. I've learned some really cool new strategies and figured out one puzzle I used to brute force so now it's just a matter of getting good footage, I'm hoping for one run deathless with no reloads but because I tend to take the levels slow I'll likely have to segment it...

[Randorama]

Dude, in the kindest possible way: what the fuck's wrong with you?

Please avoid asking stupid questions like this one and please refrain from ordering people around.

Actually, please ask this question at whoever you see in the mirror. I wonder what he/she might answer you (ah, De Se attitudes jokes are my favourites).
Anyway, I actually am enduring junior colleagues at work who display worse attitudes on crucial work matters and dare to ask that I do their job because they lack the relevant skills.

The whole "I don't wanna write stuff! You do it!" attitude from younger people at work and at home gets grating, in the long distance. Young men, these days...

Oh, and this:

You're an asshole.

Reported, and you go on the ignore list. I hope that one day you will grow up and learn manners; your posting history suggests that I am cultivating a chimeric hope. Best of luck, anyway!

EDIT:

I actually deleted the material in the first post(s) of each ST/GD, as threads cannot be deleted once there are replies. The rest of the thread will remain in place, this being a measure of some sort that prevents people from doing something illegal (e.g. posting links to roms and such) and then deleting proof of their heinous crimes. Since I also want to retain control over my own posts, especially when they do not infringe any rules, I have deleted them now in order to avoid that somebody may quote them and keep them online without my consent.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Speaking of your junior colleagues, I certainly hope for their sake that you don't behave this pretentiously towards them, though given nearly everything you write seems to come off that way (the "squibs" thread in particular...), I seriously doubt it. Still can't figure out what possessed you to make such an unbelievably snide remark directed at me then act like I'm the rude one here. How dare I not possess a heart of stone and take offense, right?

Honestly, I think it's possibly the nastiest, most mean-spirited comment anyone on this forum has ever directed at me, and that's including the My-Little-Pony obsessed weirdo who wrote that infamous fanfic and openly fantasized about having an excuse to shoot me dead.

[Randorama]

You can write whatever you want, Roo, but I am ignoring your messages. I am definitely curious about how long you wish to proceed with the 808 style of post, and about how long your behaviour will go unmoderated. Day 2: I hope you will deliver!

[Faith]

2025/09/10 (...) I have deleted them now in order to avoid that somebody may quote them and keep them online without my consent.

I think it is unreasonable to post something and then have worry about someone quoting it and "keep them online without consent."

Does that not go against... a lot of the basis of the internet?

And forums especially? @_@"...

Also, does it not contradict your original statement when you said we can copy and paste it?

Could you please clarify your position? So may we copy and paste it or not?

See:

If you want, you can copy and paste the ST and open a new ST thread for it.

Edit: Sorry, really don't want to be "that person" and to come across to needlessly provoke, but this needs to be said:

The STG wiki page for the game represents a simply superior source

That is simply untrue and shows that you read neither your own ST nor the Wiki. To be clear: I would not expect this of you, but, if you want to make a claim, then the duty falls on yourself to research that claim. I would expect more from someone claiming to "do research for a living." The STG Wiki Page for this game does not even show how or where to score the pigs, it does not even contain most of the information from the "2.0 SCORING TRICKS" section of your original post which I had already archived because you did originally say "you can copy and paste the ST."

Just because something is "prettier" does not make it better.

And, above all: people are diverse, we have many ways to archive information, and many people prefer one, or another, or yet another. I agree that Wiki is good to see past information, but a lot of people really prefer forum, and I respect and understand why. And as a researcher, you should know how important information archive is.

If you do not agree with using certain format or forum for that, that is fine. But other people prefer it. So to delete information just for such a disagreement? I cannot agree.

When I posted the updated info in this thread, this is not how I saw the thread go.

I agree maybe Roo could have said some things a bit better or nicer, but I have to agree and side with Roo's sentiment. I think it is unfair for you to make such blanket statements, and I think, even for me, I can see you have some broad resentment (young people this, young people that) which is uncalled for.

[Randorama]

2025/09/10 (...) I have deleted them now in order to avoid that somebody may quote them and keep them online without my consent.

I think it is unreasonable to post something and then have worry about someone quoting it and "keep them online without consent."

Does that not go against... a lot of the basis of the internet?

And forums especially? @_@"...

Also, does it not contradict your original statement when you said we can copy and paste it?

Could you please clarify your position? So may we copy and paste it or not?

Please see my latest message, but also please see my last post below.

[...]
That is simply untrue and shows that you read neither your own ST nor the Wiki. To be clear: I would not expect this of you, but, if you want to make a claim, then the duty falls on yourself to research that claim. I would expect more from someone claiming to "do research for a living." The STG Wiki Page for this game does not even show how or where to score the pigs, it does not even contain most of the information from the "2.0 SCORING TRICKS" section of your original post which I had already archived because you did originally say "you can copy and paste the ST."

I have no idea on which metric are you using to compare ST and wiki, but you can improve the Wiki with material from the ST. For the rest of your comment, my "duties" are defined by my employment contract with my employers and my marriage contract with my wife, plus other duties I might have as a citizen. Please refrain from using words at random, and please keep in mind that my skills as a researcher are evaluated by my employers and the research community over periods of decades, not by random citizens on the internet who cherry pick single statements for misnterpretation. Something I warmly suggest you to do is to get an education, instead of NEETing your life away on the interwebs.

I agree maybe Roo could have said some things a bit better or nicer, but I have to agree and side with Roo's sentiment. I think it is unfair for you to make such blanket statements, and I think, even for me, I can see you have some broad resentment (young people this, young people that) which is uncalled for.

So, you justify another user personally insulting me but find inappropriate that I voice my own resentment; congratulations on the double standards. I will not share anything with someone like you: your behaviour disgusts me.

[Faith]

For the rest of your comment, my "duties" are defined by my employment contract with my employers and my marriage contract with my wife, plus other duties I might have as a citizen. Please refrain from using words at random, and please keep in mind that my skills as a researcher are evaluated by my employers and the research community, not by random citizens on the internet.

Oh I see, so you are one of those people who needs contracts.

lol.

So, you justify another user personally insulting me but find inappropriate that I voice my own resentment. Congratulations on the double standards. I will not share anything with someone like you: your behaviour disgusts me.

lol^2.

I never did justify anything.

I did directly say Roo could have said things better, but his sentiment is not wrong. Roo had a problem with you with what you said. You have a problem with groups of people because you generalize.

Maybe you need to be the one to stop with random words and assumptions? Haha. You really do have a big victim complex.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I will not share anything with someone like you: your behaviour disgusts me.

You really are a massive hypocrite.

Anyways, as I'm sure other readers are well aware, Rando's guides were nice general overviews for new players as an entry into the game and a place for strategy discussion, but honestly none of them have ever approached anything as in-depth and useful as some of the really polished guides here such as the one for Garegga or even the one for Eight Forces. That, and all of Rando's writings are still accessible on archive.org so if you really want to read them his temper tantrum has had zero material impact on the forum whatsoever.

edit: Yikes, I just saw the Mars Matrix thread, for a guy who keeps insisting on how much older and wiser he is, Rando is really behaving childishly.

[Randorama]

Day 2, post 2? I may need a scoreboard for you two. I wonder what you might be writing, though. The foe/ignore function is really beautiful, because it shows an empty space in place of the relevant message. Apt representation for the actual content of your messages, I guess? I must say that people desperately holding onto 20-years old texts which were not even formatted properly strikes me as...actually, it does not strike me at all. Laziness and entitlement seem a defining factor of modern generations. Ah, back in my old days...

[aak]

Hey, these threads still show up on searches, so although you may think they're useless, it's still better to have them up and be able to get information from them rather than clicking the link and just being greeted by a blank post. It's more useless this way than just having somewhat outdated info on there. And they're all still on Archive.org so really if someone wants to read it you're just making them take an extra step. You could at least link the shmups wiki from here if you want people to use that instead. I just joined to post this after using this thread for a few days and noticing that it's gone now, so I don't really understand the dynamic here, but this really feels like unnecessary neuroticism.

[Randorama]

Hey

Hello, and welcome onboard.

these threads still show up on searches, so although you may think they're useless, it's still better

Better, for who?

to have them up and be able to get information from them rather than clicking the link and just being greeted by a blank post.

Oh, but there is some text in the first post, why do you say that it is blank?

It's more useless this way than just having somewhat outdated info on there.

More useless, to who? While I am happy to be useful to a variety of individuals, "average Joe on the internet" has gone beyond my scope these days. Especially when they cannot say "thanks" and act like they're entitled to tell me what to do with my own posts.

And they're all still on Archive.org so really if someone wants to read it you're just making them take an extra step.

So? Is this a life-or-death situation for anyone? If so, I vote pollice verso.

You could at least link the shmups wiki from here if you want people to use that instead.

Heavens no! I don't want people to do anything. Freedom for all.

I just joined to post this after using this thread for a few days and noticing that it's gone now, so I don't really understand the dynamic here, but this really feels like unnecessary neuroticism.

Feels to who? What is your point exactly, that I am supposed not to act as a neurotic because you implied so, in a remarkably roundabout manner? And if I want to be a neurotic, what are you going to do about it, tell me that people on the interwebs must work for free, and declare that you will not consent me to...do something? (I cannot possibly be bothered to remember what Faith wrote, sorry)?

...I had a good larf out of this post, thank you. Off to ignore list, sorry (in the English sense of the word, of course). Please let me know if you die off a few extra clicks; I will toast to another Darwin award having met its goal. Though I will not know it; the ignore function, etc.

[aak]

Is there a rule against being the most obnoxious person to ever live

[Randorama]

Ah, how much I love the ignore function! Day 1, aak?