GD: DOJ system and strat

[ratikal]

That song is catchy @_@. That seems like a legit trick too, I'm guessing it isn't too hard to get a full hyper and a 98% hyper at the end seeing what you did.

I also got the chain up to the cannon pretty much all set save for one trouble spot. It's annoying when that bee gets hit when I don't want it to. >_< But it nets me up to 70M up to the cannon!

EDIT: Oh yeah! There's one more thing I wanted ask. I don't understand the 3rd attack of the final boss. In the second loop it looks a bit more predictable, but here I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I usually have to hyper or bomb here mainly cause I end up getting trapped. Is there any set pattern for this attack?

[Obscura]

A few questions from an awful player (all of this is first loop, I suck):

1. Stage three boss, form 2, attack three: I know about moving in the "hallways" created by the big bullets "outside" of the pattern, but when I try to move back "in", I find that the slow pink bullets are usually making a clusterfuck of the whole thing. How do you get back "in" safely?

2. Stage four boss, second and third form. Oh god, this asshole does awful things to me. First form, I at least know in theory what needs to be done, even if I suck at it. Second form first attack, I know about sitting on the left to only get one blue spiral, but it seems like I've got no room at all to maneuver that way, and even the tiniest move to the right to get through some gap ends with the right spiral going online and me getting trapped and slaughtered. The other attack in the second form is no problem (lol safespot), but then I have no clue at all on the third form, other than "one bomb gets me through it".

3. Stage five, the beehive: I have a hard time creating large enough gaps, due to all of the shit coming my way from all sorts of weird angles, and frequently the large lines of bullets from the giant bees block what holes I do form. Any advice for this one?

EDIT: Stage 4 boss, I'm finding that I'm having much more success if I *ignore* the "one side only" trick, and sit bottom-center. Sure, I have to deal with both spirals, but the gaps down there are big enough to drive a truck through, which is much easier to deal with than the tiny gaps from the spiral directly above me if I do the "trick".

[finisherr]

I ran a few credits today until I got to the stage 5 boss again, only this time I did a 1 loop game. Holy shit. If you're not the shit at shooters don't do this. I was all psyched on being able to 1-ALL the first loop, then just got utterly crushed by a fucking russian doll bee with bullets so fast that NO VISIBLE PATTERNS ARE DISTINGUISHABLE AT ALL. I understand difficult, but this seems like only computers or advanced video game mutants could handle this kind of thing. Like...Futari Ultra or something.

I guess I am kind of shocked that the developers of this game were like, "yeah, this boss is totally beatable." Who are the testers for this?!

[Erppo]

woop

[Cagar]

I ran a few credits today until I got to the stage 5 boss again, only this time I did a 1 loop game. Holy shit. If you're not the shit at shooters don't do this. I was all psyched on being able to 1-ALL the first loop, then just got utterly crushed by a fucking russian doll bee with bullets so fast that NO VISIBLE PATTERNS ARE DISTINGUISHABLE AT ALL. I understand difficult, but this seems like only computers or advanced video game mutants could handle this kind of thing. Like...Futari Ultra or something.

I guess I am kind of shocked that the developers of this game were like, "yeah, this boss is totally beatable." Who are the testers for this?!

I totally agree with you that hibachi's patterns are extremely stupid.
It feels like you're not supposed to dodge anymore, just spam all resources and hope for the best.

[PROMETHEUS]

I ran a few credits today until I got to the stage 5 boss again, only this time I did a 1 loop game. Holy shit. If you're not the shit at shooters don't do this. I was all psyched on being able to 1-ALL the first loop, then just got utterly crushed by a fucking russian doll bee with bullets so fast that NO VISIBLE PATTERNS ARE DISTINGUISHABLE AT ALL. I understand difficult, but this seems like only computers or advanced video game mutants could handle this kind of thing. Like...Futari Ultra or something.

I guess I am kind of shocked that the developers of this game were like, "yeah, this boss is totally beatable." Who are the testers for this?!

I totally agree with you that hibachi's patterns are extremely stupid.
It feels like you're not supposed to dodge anymore, just spam all resources and hope for the best.

Only the very last pattern is like that. I don't like how they did it and I think it's easy to see why they did it that way, it introduces a huge luck factor that has a small but significant incidence for whoever's going for their ultimate record : they will want to play a perfect run + a lucky hibachi kill on last pattern to maximize their score, so this will multiply the number of attempts they need to play, which in turns maximizes profit for the arcade, and allows Cave to increase their PCBs' and other items' prices. Another important side effect is that it encourages players to fucking waste a LOT of their time and money, and that the last pattern is less fun to play and watch as a result.

[Gus]

Like...Futari Ultra or something.

Actually, most of Ultra Larsa's patterns are pretty doable and are designed to be dodged. Yeah, there's a lot of points where you do have to do strategic bombs but it's nothing like DOJ Hibachi, which just looks like a ridiculous luck/resource spamfest no matter who I see playing it.

Sorry, just had to get that dig in.

[Meseki]

A few days ago, I played a little bit of DOJBL in MAME after getting used to the PS2 DOJ, and for some reason, I was having issues chaining up to the first two bees of 1-1, which I was doing rather consistently on the PS2. I was wondering if chaining was another thing made more difficult on BL compared to WL, or if it was me having difficulties using the keyboard or just doing bad in general.
If it really is stricter, I might stick to WL at least until a 1-ALL is a reasonable target, as I can't even get the first extend on BL since they put it at 20 million instead of 10 million.

[finisherr]

Gus, I think we all know that you know how to play Ultra.

[Obscura]

A few days ago, I played a little bit of DOJBL in MAME after getting used to the PS2 DOJ, and for some reason, I was having issues chaining up to the first two bees of 1-1, which I was doing rather consistently on the PS2. I was wondering if chaining was another thing made more difficult on BL compared to WL, or if it was me having difficulties using the keyboard or just doing bad in general.
If it really is stricter, I might stick to WL at least until a 1-ALL is a reasonable target, as I can't even get the first extend on BL since they put it at 20 million instead of 10 million.

BL is easier than WL, and its chaining is actually less strict.

You should have no problems getting both extends by, at the latest, early stage 3.

[Meseki]

BL is easier than WL, and its chaining is actually less strict.

You should have no problems getting both extends by, at the latest, early stage 3.

I guess I need to learn to properly chain more of the stages then, considering that my best record on either version was a semi-fluke 18 million on WL with B-S, and 1-3 is the farthest I've ever gotten.
Or maybe I should actually practice properly in general.

[CRI]

yesterday i tried to practice the stage 4 chain.... i'm at the 1up cannon now.
damn this part is hard. after +70 tries i did it only 5 times.
and even worse for me is the random part after the 1up cannon.
didn't even chain that part one time. any tips for chaining the 1up cannon and the part after that would be much appreciated.

[PROMETHEUS]

simple general tips

1up cannon :
damage the cannon as little as possible by stalling line of tanks, then catching all cartridges as they fall. Every few frames of laser off the cannon makes a difference that counts towards whether or not the cannon will die too early in the end... Do The Dance left-right to herd bullets while catching cartridges to stay safe, catching cartridge last second @bottom of screen = laser travels up for a few frames before touching canon again, more chances of success

random horizontal turrets :
please memorize perfectly when and where the groups of popcorn arrive, their position is not random unlike the mobile turrets. Knowing where they are going to appear and how much time you have before and after you destroy them to connect to turrets or other groups of popcorn is key and necessary to improvise. And then you'll need to improvise since turrets are never exactly in the same position, but you can still also memorize "versions" of chunks for each turret that will prepare you well by giving you an idea where to position yourself before a turret appears / where to move after it is destroyed with no hesitation. No time for hesitation.

[CRI]

holy shit i did it. i chained stage 4!
with a full stage 4 chain i went into the st. 4 boss fight with 391mil.
big thanks to PROMETHEUS for the tips. the tip with the popcorn enemys at the random horizontal turrets is worth gold.
i didn't know that the popcorn are not random at this part. but now that i know it this part become manageable.
also i'm getting better at the 1up cannon. still hard but i'm getting a little bit experienced with it.
now let's do the st.4 chain over and over again so i can do that at a full run.

[PROMETHEUS]

well done CRI,
I know this chain is very very satisfying to pull off successfully
good luck for consistancy practice and one of these days make a replay where you can watch yourself be awesome in stage 4 ;)

[ACSeraph]

I just noticed this thread...

I was completely unaware of it, because if you use the search function for Daioujou this doesn't come up. Is there a way for a mod to change the title of the thread? And maybe we should instate a rule that strategy threads must not use abbreviated titles for the sake of making the strategy section easier to access.

[Plasmo]

There's an index after all: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1896

Check there before you use the search function.

[mastermx]

I have been trying to 1cc this game for the past couple of weeks. I can officially say, this is the hardest shmup I've ever played. the furthest I've made it on 1cred is near the end of stage 4. The thing is, I know what's stealing lives from my runs. It's that stupid stage 2 boss and the stage 3 boss. By the time I've got to stage 4, I have practically no lives.

It's madness. You can literally die anywhere in this game. As soon as your mind wonders, a stray bullet finds it's way to your face.

[nasty_wolverine]

The thing is, I know what's stealing lives from my runs. It's that stupid stage 2 boss and the stage 3 boss. By the time I've got to stage 4, I have practically no lives.

Stage 3 boss can be painful at times, but nothing a bomb and a hyper cant deal with. However, stage 2 boss is not that hard. Surviving the initial barage is just good tap dodging, the final 3 patterns (the spread, the pink barrage, the blue barrage) is a bit tough. You can use a hyper as soon as the spread begins, abuse the invincibility frames to sit on top of the boss, then back away, by this time the spread and the pink barrage should be over and it will start with the blue barrage, 2-3 seconds with a hyper to finish. easy peesy. remeber you have bombs, use them.

Crossing stage 4 isnt that hard, few weeks of regular practice should see you through it, stage 5 is a whole different beast.

And yes, fucking stray bullet in face hurts, you cannot ever relax in this game.

[mastermx]

Stage 3 boss can be painful at times, but nothing a bomb and a hyper cant deal with. However, stage 2 boss is not that hard.

It's weird but I've always found stage 2 boss harder than stage 3.

I have a phobia of bombing. I always think "I can make it" and end up wallowing in regret, seeing all those bombs gone to waste.

DDP DOJ is unique. It's like meth, the difficulty is addictive. Whatever other shmup I play, I always think to myself "well this ain't no DDP doj difficult.

Thanks for the tips though, will try out that hyper trick.

[nasty_wolverine]

I have a phobia of bombing. I always think "I can make it" and end up wallowing in regret, seeing all those bombs gone to waste.

They give you bombs for a reason. Thats to bomb a tough spot. Get a 1CC first and then think of trying to get a no bomb run.

DDP DOJ is unique. It's like meth, the difficulty is addictive. Whatever other shmup I play, I always think to myself "well this ain't no DDP doj difficult.

Unless you are trying to 2-ALL, DOJ isnt that difficult. Wanna try madness, play Ibara or Garegga.

[CRI]

and one of these days make a replay where you can watch yourself be awesome in stage 4

well i'm not even close at be awesome at stage 4 but here you can take a look at how i'm trying to chain it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTURcKbvtgI

as you can see the 1up cannon is still to hard for me because cartridges fall down in places were i can't get them.
yeah and the horizontal turrets.... call it bad luck and not enough practise.

[Blinge]

Black Label:

When it gives me the choice should I select the old or new version of the game?

[Shepardus]

If you want to play black label, select new. I think the old version is simply white label.

[descriptive]

Hello everyone!
I found some mistakes here but seemed not been noticed before...

1.2nd loop:
a.Well,If reached 350million in White Label,1cc,without 2miss/3bomb/3stage get all the bee*2 can also reach the 2nd loop
b.But in Black Label this reqiurement was been cancelled

2."(4) dying: instantly gives you 30% hyper jauge",actually is 25%,600/2400,used debug to modify it,the Hyper Gauge's adress is 81B3EE

[Shepardus]

Are there hitbox diagrams comparing the hitboxes between WL and BL? I've heard that Type A's hitbox in WL is larger than in BL and it sure feels that way to me but I don't have any specific knowledge on that.

[Feedbacker]

[Shepardus]

Thanks, I'm surprised to see that the hitbox for Type A is actually smaller in WL!

[iconoclast]

I thought the Type B hitbox felt oddly placed, turns out it's just bigger. Thanks IKD.

[SMC]

So they just swapped the hitboxes for BL?


Why?