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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:45 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
It has nothing to do with what people on this forum do or don't do. And most people here do put lots of time into their favorite games. Whether they make progress or focus on the competitive aspect (and many do) of the genre isn't really relevant to that, since they're still getting their "money's worth" and enjoyment out of the game either way.

If I wanted to be a dick, I could probably try to turn this argument around (as some have) and claim that "focusing too much on the hardcore" is what "killed" the genre. But honestly, I don't believe it's either. shmups aren't mainstream because technology (and the gimmicks technology brought) passed the genre by, and most mainstream players followed the shiny.

I meant it the other way around
maybe shmups really aren't popular because they aren't as cool as some might think

how else would you explain joining multiple shmup communities in the past few years and ending up with more people who play fighters more seriously than shmups
hell, at this point i know more people who quit fighters for shmups than people who still play shmups seriously (not to mention people who just straight up quit)

maybe the answer to the topic is "no normal person would grind a game without a single other person playing it"
even shit like speedrunning RNG based JRPGs that take 10+ hours in one sitting has a bigger community than most shmups for some reason

I spent the last 2 months or so playing futari ultra and there is literally not a single another english speaking person who understands the game past a certain level, it's just you and maybe the 8 available replays (and gus' abandoned twitter full of insanity)

let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?

also i made this topic drunk lmao


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:57 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
Let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?


This is pretty much what discourages me from putting real effort into shmups.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:02 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:
It has nothing to do with what people on this forum do or don't do. And most people here do put lots of time into their favorite games. Whether they make progress or focus on the competitive aspect (and many do) of the genre isn't really relevant to that, since they're still getting their "money's worth" and enjoyment out of the game either way.

If I wanted to be a dick, I could probably try to turn this argument around (as some have) and claim that "focusing too much on the hardcore" is what "killed" the genre. But honestly, I don't believe it's either. shmups aren't mainstream because technology (and the gimmicks technology brought) passed the genre by, and most mainstream players followed the shiny.

I meant it the other way around
maybe shmups really aren't popular because they aren't as cool as some might think

how else would you explain joining multiple shmup communities in the past few years and ending up with more people who play fighters more seriously than shmups
hell, at this point i know more people who quit fighters for shmups than people who still play shmups seriously (not to mention people who just straight up quit)

maybe the answer to the topic is "no normal person would grind a game without a single other person playing it"
even shit like speedrunning RNG based JRPGs that take 10+ hours in one sitting has a bigger community than most shmups for some reason

I spent the last 2 months or so playing futari ultra and there is literally not a single another english speaking person who understands the game past a certain level, it's just you and maybe the 8 available replays (and gus' abandoned twitter full of insanity)

let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?

also i made this topic drunk lmao


Hmmmm, interesting points. A few responses:

First off, "playing it beyond a certain level" is always going to be an extreme minority. Fighting games have a social aspect, which draws a greater number of people in. That's why there are more players beyond that absurd point of insane skill: because there is a bigger pool to draw from.

On the other hand, I would argue that the speedrun community is generally not that great compared to the highest level of shmup and fighting game gameplay. The most impressive WR plays of certain shmups utterly dwarf all but the absolute best speedruns, so I don't think the speedrun communities of most games are really comparable. Those "10 hour jrpg" speedrun communities might also not be as big as you think, since that small group will often get exposure from places like AGDQ. Being the only ones that do what they do, they don't have to work for it or perfect their runs. They might be competitive, they might be dedicated, and they might be weird, but I don't think they're at the same pinnacle of skill.

I've said this a few times before, but I think shmups have become a little more niche then they need to be for a variety of reasons. Marketing, genre diversity, localization issues, price, presentation, etc. I think that might turn around a bit soon, with the advent of super easy digital distribution. So we might see it turn into a regular niche genre instead of super niche in the years to come, IMO. They're still never going to be as popular as fighter though imo.

Bananamatic wrote:
let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?


As I've said before, I don't play for achievement or satisfaction, but moment to moment enjoyment. So, even if no one cares that I 1cc'd Rayforce, I still cherish playing that game and replaying it. On the other hand, I don't care if getting a WR in DOJ would win the eternal glory of the universe, I don't think it sounds fun at all.
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Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:35 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
also I made this topic drunk lmao


This is now the best thread ever.

Edit: Thinking over the thread now, I realise I've absolutely plateau'd at shmups (and muscle). I care more about shmups tbh. My efforts this past week to smash through that ceiling in Ikaruga haven't been successful yet, I'm so inconsistent it's infuriating.
Yet I can sit through 2-3 hours of repeated failure before quitting, and it's never boring.

I'd love to hear advice for beating this stage, other than keep at it with occasional breaks, which is my intention.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:18 pm 



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This is a particularly interesting thread for me, for a number of reasons. First of all, I am a (former?) competitive fighting game player, but I've actually been playing bullet hell shmups longer than I've taken fighting games seriously.

My first shmup was Ketsui Death Label. I played, and played, and played, and played (with auto-bomb on pretty much the entire time). Years later, the announcement of the 360 version pretty much inspired me to get a Japanese Xbox 360 (somehow for $120), and the rest is history. DOJBL and Ketsui are probably my 2 favorite shmups of all time. I'll have to check my playtimes later, but I don't think I've ever gotten past stage 3 in either of them.

Now, I probably have around a dozen Xbox shmups. A fun night for me would be to play 1 or 2 credits on each of them in rotation. I've also never gotten past stage 3 or 4 on any of them.

The other reason why I thought this thread was interesting is because it seems to be following a pattern similar to the (reddit) community of another hobby I dabble in: building Gundam plastic model kits, or gunpla. When it comes to Gunpla, the reigning viewpoint can be summed up with a quote from the Gundam Build Fighters anime: "Gunpla is Freedom!" On the Gunpla subreddit, people frequently post questions about their struggles to snap together their kits, and pictures once they're done. Some people might even use a marker to fill in the panel lines, and even apply the included stickers and decals. A few will even go so far as to paint their kits, often with a custom paint scheme instead of following the manual's color guide.

But aside from the odd kitbash (incorporating parts from multiple kits in one), that's about as far as 99% of the community ever goes. People share pictures of their kits that they put little more than an afternoon's work into, and everyone else says "great job! it looks cool!" Very few people are trying to increase their skills at the hobby. No seam line removal, no parts modifications, no panel line scribing, no added detail with plastic sheets.

The Japanese community where Gunpla comes from is entirely different from that. The extra work I described is the norm. Even the manual says to do some of these things. Hobby magazines show amazing builds, then have features where the builders go "actually, this stuff is pretty easy. all you have to do is this:" followed by an illustrated breakdown of the techniques that were applied to the build.

A few weeks ago, a group of people put together a free, English-language online Gunpla magazine. The very first article in it is called Back to Basics, where the author talks about how some of the fundamental skills involved in building plastic models have been lost, using an example of a photo he saw online of a kit that was painted beautifully, but didn't have any of its seam lines removed. He was upset because this builder was "running before he could walk." I guess the shmup analogy would be playing for score before you're able to even 1-sissy a game.

People thought the magazine as a whole was great, but a lot of individuals took personal offense to the callout in that article. It kicked off a pretty heated debate/argument, between people who are ostensibly trying to improve their skills and people who just wanna build Gunpla. Which seems to be damn near the same thing that's happening here.

The thread ultimately settled down to this:

"Pfft, you're casuals. Snapfitting is the very first step on a long journey. You should at least try to improve your skills."

"Pfft, you're elitists. Snapfitting is awesome, and my kits look great. I'm an adult; I don't have that much time to spend on one kit. Gunpla is freedom."

Anyway...

Special World wrote:
I don't really think people were arguing that clears are an end goal, though. It's just more like... for some of us, a clear is such a massive achievement that we're not even going to look past it until we're at that point. Whereas more skilled players can achieve a clear in the first two days of playing a game, so that clear is basically the starting point for how they want to play the game.

Granted, there are certain games that I approach from a "clear it and it's done" perspective, like R-Type or Lords of Thunder. But that's not typically my mindset going into shooting games. Some just lend themselves to only a 1CC, while others have a larger depth available once that 1CC is achieved.


Emphasis added, but that's pretty much how I feel about it. I will bomb as hard as I can to get that first 1cc. How deeply I explore the game after that really depends on how I feel about the scoring system after I read up on it. Personally, I think the scoring system is kinda irrelevant until you can actually survive the whole game. And that alone is only "easy" for certain games, and even then, only if you have the sort of fundamentals that you can only build up after hours upon hours of playtime. Playing with Ketsui Bomb enabled for several months pretty much trained me not to use bombs. The only time I use them now is if I think I'm in an undodgeable situation, or if I'm on my last life. And it actually works pretty well; the only time I get hit by bullets is if I make some minor mistake, like not noticing a bullet or moving a few frames too long in one direction, even if I'm trying to dodge an otherwise difficult pattern.

I think it's important to note that people have hobbies for different reasons. Shmups are games that lend themselves very well to in-depth system exploration, but that isn't mandatory. Someone can get just as much enjoyment from credit feeding as another can from chasing 1ccs or world records. The same way the vast majority of people who bought Bayonetta played until they beat the game once on normal mode, then put it on the shelf or sold it. It took them 9 to 12 hours, max, assuming they didn't skip cutscenes.

Which is insane to me, as a person who put over 100 hours into the original game alone. Beating the game once means you never got to experience the true depth of the combat or scoring systems.

To each his own, you know?


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:30 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I'd love to hear advice for beating this stage, other than keep at it with occasional breaks, which is my intention.

What i usually do when i feel a plateau closing in is to mix things up. Try out different strategies or even ships if the game has the option.
Just something to keep my mind fresh and hinder the practice/playing from turning into a grind.
Sometimes a break is just what is needed though, honestly. It's hard to make progress if your motivation isn't there. Especially when you're expected to perform at a high level.
Burnout is definitely more detrimental to progress than a break is.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:06 pm 


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Yeah breaks can help. I can vouch for that.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:24 am 


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vgambit wrote:
The same way the vast majority of people who bought Bayonetta played until they beat the game once on normal mode, then put it on the shelf or sold it. It took them 9 to 12 hours, max, assuming they didn't skip cutscenes.

Which is insane to me, as a person who put over 100 hours into the original game alone. Beating the game once means you never got to experience the true depth of the combat or scoring systems.


Ha. that's exactly what I did with Bayonetta a couple of months back. Don't worry though, normal mode kicked my ass so much I'm not satisfied yet, and the trophies, the trophies are calling.. Actually encouraging people to get more out of the game/play it in different ways is perfect implementation of the achievements system eh? I'm sure I've stressed this point on the forum before. There's a discussion there about incentives for high level play, to be sure.

Oh my god how do they air combo for so long!? That trailer is awesome.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:37 am 


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Eh, I kinda feel the way BIL does about 30 minute air combos. I think it's more fun to kill things as quickly, cleanly, and efficiently as possible. Was Ninja Gaiden like that? Should play that one one of these days.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:38 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Was Ninja Gaiden like that?

A bit much for my tastes, yes, at least with the sequel.

tbh, the Onimusha style of always having to time everything precisely gets wearying too. Really though, this all comes down to how much fudge factor you want, and at which end of the spectrum (fast kills <-> combo mania)


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:54 pm 


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See people talking about Ninja Gaiden.

Realise people are not talking about the One True Ninja Gaiden.

Walk away, sadly.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:37 pm 


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system11 wrote:
See people talking about Ninja Gaiden.

Realise people are not talking about the One True Ninja Gaiden.

Walk away, sadly.

I know that feel. Ninja Gaiden II just makes every other game look so bad by comparison.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:21 am 


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I was referring to the hack and slash series in general. Though I also do love the Nes Trilogy if that's what System11 was lamenting over.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:41 am 


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lol, he's talking about the arcade one. I don't know why, but he seems to think that is the best one.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:36 am 


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You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:57 am 


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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

Too good to not sig. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:32 am 


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how 2 revive stg

1. replace leaderboards with loserboards so u can look at it and feel good about urself because u will nevr be that bad
2. make it so that ur ship can turn around and go back home. that way u dont have to play the game and can spend more time with friends and family, whats important in life for real. support peace not war okay guys?
3. make it cinematic. start with hour long cutscene and have plot as complicated as MGS series. SNAAAAAAAAKE evry time u die.
4. make it open world. like GTA except ur a ship, not a person.
5. make it so that ur a burger and u shoot freedom fries at animes to spread american freedoms. ketchup instead of blood would make the game more appropriate 4 kids!!
6. like a REAL war, have many other burgerships helping u. that way u only die if your on the front lines
7. stop calling it a ShooTing Game. call it a something cooler. FPS maybe


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:36 pm 


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Quote:
maybe shmups really aren't popular because they aren't as cool as some might think


For many people stg aren't cool for different reason: repetitiveness, lack of variety that's on surface (not gimmicks in scoring or smth; also: "lol all shmups looks the same" line), no AI of enemies, "simplicity" (because so called intellectual gamers prefer System Shock 2, Total Annihilation/XCOM (original) and Planescape Torment; or any other "complex" games that make you look smart), needing to grind (by that i mean playing one freaking game over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over) etc. etc.

Also, this

Quote:
Why spend so much time on one game only when there are so many out there waiting to be experienced?
I say 1CC with the best result I can and move on.
Life is too short and there are other things I want to do with it as well.


Especially when you have huge backlog of games of different genres from many platforms


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:00 pm 


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awry wrote:
how 2 revive stg

1. replace leaderboards with loserboards so u can look at it and feel good about urself because u will nevr be that bad

I love to do this. The only solace in my life is that someone out there is always even less proficient than I am.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:03 pm 


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qmish wrote:
For because so called intellectual gamers prefer System Shock 2, Total Annihilation/XCOM (original) and Planescape Torment; or any other "complex" games that make you look smart


Haha, where'd that come from? I hang out on a forum which absolutely loves Planescape Torment, System Shock 2 and XCOM (not so much Total Annihilation, kind of a weird inclusion), and I honestly don't recall anyone describe themselves as "intellectual" for liking these games. "Complex", sure, but XCOM and SS2 are relatively complex, no scarequotes needed. I've also not seen anyone looking down on arcade games in general; to the contrary, a good amount of posters seem to regard them very positively.

I honestly think you're more likely to find people willing to "try hard" at shmups amongst people used to their favorite games requiring effort and attention to play, rather than mainstream AAA consumers, but what do I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:16 pm 



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awry wrote:
how 2 revive stg

1. replace leaderboards with loserboards so u can look at it and feel good about urself because u will nevr be that bad
2. make it so that ur ship can turn around and go back home. that way u dont have to play the game and can spend more time with friends and family, whats important in life for real. support peace not war okay guys?
3. make it cinematic. start with hour long cutscene and have plot as complicated as MGS series. SNAAAAAAAAKE evry time u die.
4. make it open world. like GTA except ur a ship, not a person.
5. make it so that ur a burger and u shoot freedom fries at animes to spread american freedoms. ketchup instead of blood would make the game more appropriate 4 kids!!
6. like a REAL war, have many other burgerships helping u. that way u only die if your on the front lines
7. stop calling it a ShooTing Game. call it a something cooler. FPS maybe

I laughed.

This might just be personal preference sneaking in, but I think the obsession with bullet hells killed the genre to all but the niche. Look at the reviews Ikaruga and Gradius V got, and the latter is not a bullet hell, and the former does bullet hells so differently. Beautifully drawn atmospheric 2D shooters have historically done well, I can't fathom why that can't revive the genre to all but philistines and "hardcore" shmuppers.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:33 pm 


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o.pwuaioc wrote:
Gradius V is not a bullet hell


It totally gets into bullet hell territory in the later loops. There's a reason the hitbox is tiny.
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:19 pm 


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CWM wrote:
Haha, where'd that come from? I hang out on a forum which absolutely loves Planescape Torment, System Shock 2 and XCOM (not so much Total Annihilation, kind of a weird inclusion), and I honestly don't recall anyone describe themselves as "intellectual" for liking these games. "Complex", sure, but XCOM and SS2 are relatively complex, no scarequotes needed. I've also not seen anyone looking down on arcade games in general; to the contrary, a good amount of posters seem to regard them very positively.


I'm judging from my personal experience of being among pc gamers who mainly prefer 90s games. Maybe i said it a bit too harsh, but many of them don't view at stgs (and other arcade games) seriously. Hell, they prefer Doom2D: Forever over Contra Hard Corps (mostly because of weapon system and metroidvania-like semifreedom of going through levels that D2D has). And when you start any talk questioning why do they skip arcade games they start throwing out stuff about complexity of smth like Rainbow Six 3 (not Vegas or later) etc.

And if you check forums you see threads about "what do you find most important in games" you see replies about plot etc. And if anyone bring up any comparisons they end up with talk about "i prefer smart games, that makes you think rather than just test you reflexes and memorizing". And even those who like some shmups often say about "lack of originality, enemy AI etc".

And i dont even touching modern gaming where consoles cosplaying pcs and vice versa and you have "cinematic experience" or "hey its openworld" or "walking sim with deep meaning" in most cases.

I'm not trying to criticize certain styles of games. I think mostly everything has a right to exist. I'm just surprised how close minded and hostile fans of something great could be, ignoring or never giving a chance to other greath things.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:54 pm 



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Bananamatic wrote:
let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?

I agree entirely -- if you could be doing other things that are equally as fun as Futari Ultra and would let you interact with actual people, why are you playing Futari Ultra? Sounds like you should do something else with your time.

This perfectly illustrates the real reason that shmups are dead. You played R-Type not because it had a deep scoring system, but because it was fun to play. You played Raiden because it was fun to play, not because it of its scoring depth. You played Hishouzame, Gradius, Side Arms, Gun.Smoke, or whatever your favorite game from those old times was, not because you wanted to compete with someone else (lots of them had ridiculous counterstops), but because of the enjoyment of the game itself.

Fast-forward to 2015, and you decide whether to mash or hold the C button based not on how they put bullets on the screen (which is the same), but to make a number next to an enemy go up, so you can compete with someone else in a single player game. You don't choose shot or laser based on what you're shooting at; you choose shot or laser based on the color of an arbitrary counter so that you can compete with someone else in a single player game. The systems in modern shmups aren't designed to facilitate making the game more fun; they're designed to facilitate competing with other people. In a single player game.

Why are shmups dead in 2015? Because for the last eightteen years or so, the games have sucked.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:17 pm 


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Why? because MAME. I lack discipline. And because what little restraint I do have is reserved for not credit feeding.

system11 wrote:
See people talking about Ninja Gaiden.

Realise people are not talking about the One True Ninja Gaiden.

Walk away, sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:24 pm 


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Posts: 1918
Obscura wrote:
Bananamatic wrote:
let's be honest now, would you put any serious effort into something that not a single other person does or understands and gives you no benefit other than fun (or without even knowing beforehand if it's fun or not)? would you expect anyone else to do it in favour of something that has an active community and is equally as fun?

Fast-forward to 2015, and you decide whether to mash or hold the C button based not on how they put bullets on the screen (which is the same), but to make a number next to an enemy go up, so you can compete with someone else in a single player game. You don't choose shot or laser based on what you're shooting at; you choose shot or laser based on the color of an arbitrary counter so that you can compete with someone else in a single player game. The systems in modern shmups aren't designed to facilitate making the game more fun; they're designed to facilitate competing with other people. In a single player game.

Why are shmups dead in 2015? Because for the last eightteen years or so, the games have sucked.


Except a lot of them are still really fun
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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:33 pm 


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Not to mention that even if you don't like the scoring system you can pretty much ignore it in many shmups and still have a solid game.
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You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:38 pm 



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Yes, the modern shmups are so much fun that we have an entire thread, that I'm currently posting on page seven of, dedicated to top players saying "I need competition because otherwise I have no motivation to go on with game 'x'".

Sure sounds like those modern shmups are fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:40 pm 


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Location: Singin' in the rain of extends
Many of those people would probably say the same about older shmups too. If that's how they enjoy the game the most, then so be it, but it doesn't have to be the way you find enjoyment in the game. Someone liking a game for a certain aspect that you don't care for doesn't void it of all other qualities.
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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

1cc list | Twitch | YouTube


Last edited by Shepardus on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why don't you try hard?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:43 pm 


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Obscura wrote:
Yes, the modern shmups are so much fun that we have an entire thread, that I'm currently posting on page seven of, dedicated to top players saying "I need competition because otherwise I have no motivation to go on with game 'x'".

Sure sounds like those modern shmups are fun.

And like five pages of that are people being like "quit u jerk, I play this for 1CC and am lovin game"

I would take Futari Black, Eschatos, or Mars Matrix over any classic hori or vert. Any single one. The only thing that comes close in my book is Gate of Thunder.

Classic shooter: 1CC and replay because it's fun

Modern shooter: 1CC and replay because it's fun but hey you can also play for score because that's a thing now too
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