XRGB-mini Framemeister

[juji82]

question: My setup > N64 JAP Rgb Modded + official GC Scart connected to the mini with a Scart to minidin.
If I use normal scart > minidin i get a bluish image, If I use same adapter but with a sync stripper circuit (http://www.retrogamingcables.com/micoms ... ipper.html) I get the correct image.
Anybody has explaination?

[Fudoh]

You're right. Completely forgot about the SLGHD

don't. Use a transcoder with a SLG3000 instead. SLGHD is really just something if you don't use a processor in the chain.

[Konsolkongen]

Actually it wouldn't work. The SLGs are only good for 240p games linedoubled to 480p. That's not the case with the PSP as it's displayed as a 480x272 window in a 720x480p picture.

[Fudoh]

of course, you're right - my mistake!

[ckoz]

I'm about 90% certain I'll be getting a mini but I'm still a little confused about input lag. Currently, I'm running my retro consoles directly to my Samsung 720p TV set to game mode and the lag is not noticeable to me at all. If I get the XRGB mini will the lag increase or will it be handling the 240p upscaling faster than my TV could, giving me less lag?

Also this is my first post here and I'm sorry if this has been answered already. I tried digging through the thread for the answer but it's a bit overwhelming at first! Thanks in advance!

[Konsolkongen]

No problem. Last night I too was convinced that it would work

Thicker scanlines in 1080p mode would be great either way, so Micomsoft should really get it done. It would work nicely for PSP games like I demonstrated and for people playing retro games in 224 lines mainly, who also happen to have the shittiest scaler in their TV, or if 720p mode doesn't work for some reason

[BuckoA51]

If I get the XRGB mini will the lag increase or will it be handling the 240p upscaling faster than my TV could, giving me less lag?

Impossible to say really. Depends on how fast your TV is at deinterlacing vs just displaying a progressive image.

[Fudoh]

Yes, but USUALLY the Mini is faster than the TV on it's own. 15khz inputs on most TV sets buffer at least 2 frames (33ms), often even 3 frames (50ms).

[BuckoA51]

but then most TV's have input lag even when processing 1080p native, so you might go from 33ms to 16ms on your TV, plus what the Mini does (20ms ish) = 36.5 - Worse than the TV on its own, though not by much and with a big increase in picture quality.

[ckoz]

Thanks for the good info guys. What do most people seen to think is acceptable lag? I'm not big unto precision fighting games or anything. Mostly NES and Genesis platformers and sports games.

[Holograph]

Thanks for the good info guys. What do most people seen to think is acceptable lag? I'm not big unto precision fighting games or anything. Mostly NES and Genesis platformers and sports games.

For most games 2-3 frames are reasonable enough even if a bit noticeable. Depending on the specific sports games you might notice it somewhat more than say an RPG (my favored genre), but nowhere near as much as say Dance Dance Revolution.

I would not buy an XRGB-FM specifically to lower processing latency (at least not to near-SDTV-levels). For those who care a lot, a line doubler is really the only reasonable and available option. You'll likely be okay with the FM though.

[ckoz]

Yeah, I don't really care about reducing the lag as I'm fine with it currently. I only worry that the mini will add just enough more lag to make it noticeable.

[Fudoh]

what TV do you have ? It would be a first, if the Mini really did INCREASE the total lag on your setup.

[BuckoA51]

It would be a first, if the Mini really did INCREASE the total lag on your setup.

I find that very hard to believe.

[Fudoh]

believe it. Usually the 15khz processing on TVs takes considerably longer (on top of the native 1080p HDMI lag) than the 24ms of the Mini. Micomsoft might be stupid to accept 1.5 frames, but they're not this stupid. You wouldn't believe how many people used (or use) the XRGB-3 in B0 mode and the delay there was even longer - AND it was still faster than your average TV's 15khz processing.

[juji82]

got a bad EU cable from retrogamingcable can you help me resolder it correctly?

[ckoz]

Sounds like I should get the mini. One more quick question. Is it worth running an unmodded N64 over s-video through the mini or is the N64 just never going to look great on an HDTV? Debating whether or not to sell mine and just focus on 8 and 16 bit games.

[Holograph]

Sounds like I should get the mini. One more quick question. Is it worth running an unmodded N64 over s-video through the mini or is the N64 just never going to look great on an HDTV? Debating whether or not to sell mine and just focus on 8 and 16 bit games.

It's never going to look good. Whether you should keep it or not is a 100% personal decision... If you do keep it I would definitely run it through the Mini. It will look ugly, but less ugly than the TV alone. Perhaps scanlines will help. If you use S-Video make sure your cable is a real S-video cable. Most of the cheaper ones out there just run composite through both the luma and the chroma channel which will likely end up worse than using composite video through the normal composite plug.

As much as I try to avoid using emulation, I will say that some N64 games have high-res texture packs from various modding communities that can only be used with N64 emulators like 1964 or Project64 with a graphics plugin such as Glide64.

[BuckoA51]

believe it. Usually the 15khz processing on TVs takes considerably longer (on top of the native 1080p HDMI lag) than the 24ms of the Mini. Micomsoft might be stupid to accept 1.5 frames, but they're not this stupid. You wouldn't believe how many people used (or use) the XRGB-3 in B0 mode and the delay there was even longer - AND it was still faster than your average TV's 15khz processing.

The mini has the same lag when using interlace as when using progressive. I don't see why there wouldn't be consumer TV sets that did similar.

got a bad EU cable from retrogamingcable can you help me resolder it correctly?

Send it back, they are pretty friendly and will sort it out for you.

[juji82]

Okay, thank you

[darcagn]

Sounds like I should get the mini. One more quick question. Is it worth running an unmodded N64 over s-video through the mini or is the N64 just never going to look great on an HDTV? Debating whether or not to sell mine and just focus on 8 and 16 bit games.

Why not do RGB? Sure, you need an early model N64 to mod, but all I had to do was search for black N64s on eBay and message the sellers asking them for the serial numbers. Once you have one in the right serial number range, it's a pretty straightforward soldering job, 8 wires total.

Personally, I mostly focus on 8-bit and 16-bit gaming, but it would be silly to not include an N64 in my gaming collection.

[ckoz]

Sounds like I should get the mini. One more quick question. Is it worth running an unmodded N64 over s-video through the mini or is the N64 just never going to look great on an HDTV? Debating whether or not to sell mine and just focus on 8 and 16 bit games.

Why not do RGB? Sure, you need an early model N64 to mod, but all I had to do was search for black N64s on eBay and message the sellers asking them for the serial numbers. Once you have one in the right serial number range, it's a pretty straightforward soldering job

I thought about it but everything I've read suggests that the picture is still pretty ugly.

[Konsolkongen]

It's quite a lot better. Although within limits, as the N64 has notoriously bad graphics and features some of the worst textures ever seen to mankind

[BuckoA51]

All comes down to what you want I guess, when it's emulation vs the real thing they both have their advantages and disadvantages, especially on platforms like PS1, N64.... One of my favourite N64 games, Mario Tennis, won't work on the emulator so I like to have my N64 set up too. Of course there's nothing stopping you trying both, as the meme goes

[marqs]

It's quite a lot better. Although within limits, as the N64 has notoriously bad graphics and features some of the worst textures ever seen to mankind

Low-res 3d games rarely look good no matter what you do. N64 games have forced antialiasing which reduces jaggies whereas on PSX edges are sharp (which can be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask). Playing on emulator allows rendering 3d models on higher resolution, while textures are still as is (unless you can find game-specific texture packs). I'd still recommend RGB-modding the N64 to get improved colors and sharpness.

[Konsolkongen]

I didn't mean to sound like I preferred emulators. I don't. I just pointed out that most N64 games look bad, even with RGB

I very much prefer the sharp edges on Saturn and PS1 Nostalgia might factor a great deal here

[ckoz]

It's quite a lot better. Although within limits, as the N64 has notoriously bad graphics and features some of the worst textures ever seen to mankind

Does the N64 look really bad in comparison to other systems or in comparison to an N64 on a CRT? I don't remember the N64 ever looking that good so I'm not expecting it to suddenly look like a PS3 but I also don't want it looking noticeably worse than it used to on my parents' crappy old CRT like I remember.

[Fudoh]

Does the N64 look really bad in comparison to other systems or in comparison to an N64 on a CRT?

it did in most cases. The massive blurriness present on most titles really ruined it for me back in the days. I didn't have much fun with the system. When I played Bagaioh a few years into the N64's life span I was even more pissed, since Treasure really managed to produce sharp, defined and vibrant 2D graphics on the system - proving that the it wasn't a signal problem, but really the programmers' fault.

The N64 is the only low-res system for which I prefer to set the Mini to 1080p output without scanlines. It makes the sharper titles (RR64) visually acceptable.

[kamiboy]

Nothing looks bad if you have eyes that can adjust themselves to the generation of the game your are currently playing and appreciate its aesthetic beauty for what it is. At least I have never had problems playing a 7th generation game then switch to graphics from a few generations back with no trouble as long as anything sub HD is played on a CRT that is.

[jonnyturbo]

Anyone have any troubles with their remote controller on the Mini? Mines stopped working (I have tried new batteries).

Also is the "output link" light always supposed to be on?

Cheers.