XRGB-mini Framemeister

[akumajo]

MAJOR UPDATE : it's out ! check Fudoh's review here.
Official Micomsoft link here.
Where to import it ? Check here.


Hi

A new product will be released next year.

XRGB-mini FLAME MEISTER G2（Tentative name）







Scaler : Marvell HD digital format converter
2 x HDMI input
1 x D-terminal input
1 x Video input
1 x S-Video input
2 x Stereo Audio input
1 x Multi(RGB/SCART) input
1 x USB on the GO
1 x HDMI output

Super High-speed I/P conversion is installed in this product.
The delay is below 0 frames or less.
Moreover, a variety of image enhancement processing can be added.
It is a product that can cancel slow I/P conversion with TV

more : http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news ... 98626.html

[ZOM]

Interesting stuff...
Although, I'm disappointed on how Micomsoft completely ignores RGBS via RCA or BNC.
Other than that, looking forward to hear about impressions once the product falls into end-consumer's hands.

Scaler : Marvell HD digital format converter

Can't seem to find this one on Marvell's homepage, either it's a new effort or there's different product description for it?

Anyways, thanks for the info!

[trunk]

I was going to try to be constructive in this comment but....

FLAME MEISTER just sounds like the coolest equipment name ever!!

FLAME MEISTER!!!!!!

There should be a transformer with that name. Quick someone whip up a pic of the great transforming up converter

[Domino]

With the name the mini it should be cheaper than the XRGB3?

[akumajo]

More details :

>This product is XRGB-3 successor ?
No. It is a product of a new genre. However, it has DNA of XRGB.

>Will have same features such as scanlines ?
It has not decided yet. However, FPGA is installed in this product.

>How much it will cost ?
The price is undecided. However, it becomes cheaper than XRGB-3.

>It will be english friendly ?
Yes.

[robivy64]

Looks awesome!

[Domino]

Well at least Micomsoft found-out that English people are importing this from Japan.

[Fudoh]

Interesting and of course a day-1 purchase, but i wonder why they chose a marvell processing chipset. The existing marvell chipsets (lower end of as well as the higher-end Qdeo) offer very video-optimized scaling. While this is nice the result doesn't look much like the XRGB's B0 mode, but rather what you would see from a DVDO scaler. Also the existing marvell chipsets can't properly tell 240p from 480i, so they have to build the recognition into the FGPA instead.

And yes, the name's indeed legendary already!

[trunk]

From what Fudoh and Akumajo say except for the fact that we're not sure why they would use a Marvell chipset, this sounds like a boatload of Win.

So 240p/480i recognition goes to fpga and scanlines could go in fpga also, cheaper than xrgb-3, and english from the beginning *faints*

I could take out another device in my chain...

Console->the legendary FLAME MEISTER->TV

Could this be marketed outside of Japan?! *double faints*

[kamiboy]

Scanlines to be decided? I hope they are kidding, they should be a given.

[Fudoh]

take it easy, even without scanlines, there's an universal solution upcoming: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33454

The reason for Micomsoft hesitating on the scanline question is that they are incredibly hard to implement with a scaling engine. Same reason why there's no scanline emulation in XRGB's B0 mode.

[kamiboy]

take it easy, even without scanlines, there's an universal solution upcoming: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33454

The reason for Micomsoft hesitating on the scanline question is that they are incredibly hard to implement with a scaling engine. Same reason why there's no scanline emulation in XRGB's B0 mode.

Only reason why I was excited about the Meister was the prospect of getting rid of one device from my setup. If they end up not doing scanlines I'll keep my XRGB-2+ as then for me personally there is no advantage in upgrading.

[Fudoh]

I think this one is clearly staying behind the XRGB-3 - featurewise. They are aiming at people who prefered the XRGB-3's B0 mode anyway and want to use the machine on Full HD LCD sets. I could imagine that a possible full blown XRGB-4 might be decided on the Flame Meister (they should really be awarded for this name) success.

[kamiboy]

I think this one is clearly staying behind the XRGB-3 - featurewise. They are aiming at people who prefered the XRGB-3's B0 mode anyway and want to use the machine on Full HD LCD sets. I could imagine that a possible full blown XRGB-4 might be decided on the Flame Meister (they should really be awarded for this name) success.

Well, my LCD TV has no problem scaling 480p scanlines from an XRGB-2+. Besides, just because they can't figure out how to scale them is no reason for omission. They could just force 480p output with scanlines turned on. Omitting any features is a missed opportunity in my opinion. Except for some missing inputs there is no reason why this shouldn't be better than the 3 in every regard.

[Ed Oscuro]

Flame Meister (they should really be awarded for this name)

It's odd how the loli professor isn't more clearly Flame Meister-themed, however.

[ShutokouBattle]

take it easy, even without scanlines, there's an universal solution upcoming: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33454

The reason for Micomsoft hesitating on the scanline question is that they are incredibly hard to implement with a scaling engine. Same reason why there's no scanline emulation in XRGB's B0 mode.

I thought the Flame Meister only has an HDMI-out, so what use would a VGA scanline device be? Or are you talking about this as a separate issue?

When you say scanlines are hard to implement with a scaling engine, do you mean as far as the hardware requirements? Because it doesn't seem like it's difficult to write software to achieve this effect - I know of several emulators that are able to do it.

[Fudoh]

Except for some missing inputs there is no reason why this shouldn't be better than the 3 in every regard.

because this would rob them of their chance to release of a 50,000+yen XRGB-4 in the future.

Also there's one MAJOR difference between the G2 and the XRGB-3. On the G2 they have to stick to HD timings (1080p59,94Hz) while on the XRGB-3 the output adjusts to the input (e.g. 59,15Hz output for a connected MVS), so perfectionist might not like the result (possible studder).

Because it doesn't seem like it's difficult to write software to achieve this effect - I know of several emulators that are able to do it.

hardly. Next to every emu uses scanline overlay (scaling first, then put scanlines over the result), which is an approach, but nowhere as good as perfectly aligned scanlines on a linedoubled image.

[kamiboy]

because this would rob them of their chance to release of a 50,000+yen XRGB-4 in the future.

Well, that is what I am afraid of.

They do say that this is not a successor to XRGB-3 which hints at there being one in the works. But likely not something coming out anytime soon.

but i wonder why they chose a marvell processing chipset.

I am thinking the below 1 frame scaling delay had something to do with it. Besides, Micomsoft is likely working with Marvell, perhaps their scaling chips offer some flexibility and might be configured to better serve the niche needs of a XRGB device.

EDIT:

I have a feeling that if Micomsoft made their products more readily and easily available to international customers then they'd sell a few more of these things. The omission of the $100 seller markups alone should help them move a few.

[undamned]

The delay is below 0 frames or less.

IT CAN SEE INTO TEH FUTURE!!!11
-ud

[Sargon]

The delay is below 0 frames or less.

IT CAN SEE INTO TEH FUTURE!!!11
-ud

I can see it now... Dammit Mario! Why do you keep jumping before I press "A"???

[kamiboy]

The delay is below 0 frames or less.

IT CAN SEE INTO TEH FUTURE!!!11
-ud

But can it change the future, can it give me prophetic advice about my gameplay session like a text box popping up saying, "hey, kid, you really should pick up that hidden rocket launcher in that crate, you are going to need in about half an hour", or will its foresight be crippled by some digital cassandra syndrome?

[ShutokouBattle]

Also there's one MAJOR difference between the G2 and the XRGB-3. On the G2 they have to stick to HD timings (1080p59,94Hz) while on the XRGB-3 the output adjusts to the input (e.g. 59,15Hz output for a connected MVS), so perfectionist might not like the result (possible studder).

That should only affect the image when you're playing on an arcade PCB though, correct? What are the timings for a videogame system outputting an RGB signal, anyway?

In any case, I think it's potentially a good thing. Aren't the variable timings on the XRGB-3 what cause problems for some some HDTVs at high resolutions? I'm just guessing.

[BuckoA51]

A new scaler from Micomsoft, right after I bought an XRGB-3 too

Well I don't think it will be an XRGB-3 replacement, I am loving my XRGB-3 in B1 mode but in B0 mode it seems kinda pointless for me on an old WXGA TV. It's great to see Micomsoft supporting us hardcore gamers though. I will very much look forward to Fudoh's review.

Also, "Super High-speed I/P conversion is installed in this product. The delay is below 0 frames or less." Isn't that impossible????

[Fudoh]

I'm pretty they mean it in conjunction with "It is a product that can cancel slow I/P conversion with TV". Meaning that a TV in native 1080p mode plus the Flame Meister is faster than a TV with a direct 240p/480i connection....

[Ed Oscuro]

Meaning that a TV in native 1080p mode plus the Flame Meister is faster than a TV with a direct 240p/480i connection....

Meaning a 240p/480i connection to a HDTV set, correct? A direct 240p/480i connection to a CRT should still be faster...let alone processing and panel lag contributions.

[Fudoh]

right - of course.

[undamned]

Meaning that a TV in native 1080p mode plus the Flame Meister is faster than a TV with a direct 240p/480i connection....

Meaning a 240p/480i connection to a HDTV set, correct? A direct 240p/480i connection to a CRT should still be faster...let alone processing and panel lag contributions.

You wouldn't be buying an upscaler device like this for a CRT tv, anyways
-ud

[papa_november]

DO WANT

Maybe it can also deal with situations where something is VGA but not quite? That would help the odd edge cases like the X68000 or Amiga 3000, where they work fine on CRTs but have sections chopped off the screen at best on LCDs.

[Ed Oscuro]

Meaning that a TV in native 1080p mode plus the Flame Meister is faster than a TV with a direct 240p/480i connection....

Meaning a 240p/480i connection to a HDTV set, correct? A direct 240p/480i connection to a CRT should still be faster...let alone processing and panel lag contributions.

You wouldn't be buying an upscaler device like this for a CRT tv, anyways
-ud

Tru dat. Even a 1080p CRT wouldn't gain any benefit.

[lordnikon]

Except for some missing inputs there is no reason why this shouldn't be better than the 3 in every regard.

because this would rob them of their chance to release of a 50,000+yen XRGB-4 in the future.

The XRGB-3 series is too expensive for the average consumer. A cheaper alternative to the XRGB-3, with zero lag scaling, is perfect to target people who simply want to upscale their Famicom on an HDTV. The mere fact that this device does not have RGB means that an XRGB-4 is coming.

Also, Micomsoft probobly knows most of us don't care how much the XRGB-4 would cost. Most of us are too nuts to care about shifts of 10,000 yen here or there. These devices do so much, to not own one, is not an option for anyone with a serious interest in 2D games. They aren't going to pass up the opportunity to charge us an arm and a leg. They can. Because they have the goods.

Also there's one MAJOR difference between the G2 and the XRGB-3. On the G2 they have to stick to HD timings (1080p59,94Hz) while on the XRGB-3 the output adjusts to the input (e.g. 59,15Hz output for a connected MVS), so perfectionist might not like the result (possible studder).

I was thinking this would be the perfect device to buy for XRGB-3 owners, where you could chain the XRGB-3 behind the Flame Meister. You could get your scanlines from the XRGB-3 and then the zero lag upscaling to 1080p from the Flame Meister. Am I wrong in thinking this due to potential Hz issues?

At the very least, if the Flame Meister can take PSP games and stretch them without lag, I will be interested in this device for that alone. It was an amazing feature of the XRGB-3, but was only available in B0 mode which added lag.