XRGB-mini Framemeister

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rCadeGaming
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by rCadeGaming »

Fudoh wrote:I don't think this gives you any advantage.
Smashbro came to me over on SRK asking for some advice on his setup, and I made some recommendations over PM's. I did warn him that it would be a lot of work though. [offtopic] I would offer to do the work myself but I'm working and getting a second degree right now, so I don't even get time for my own projects. I haven't even played a video game in a few weeks. [/offtopic]

The main reason for switching to DB switch boxes in my own case is that SCART is unheard of in the US, and SCART switch boxes are somewhat hard to find and expensive. On the other hand, these 4 to 1 VGA boxes are $12 US each, they're simple passthrough switches so you can do whatever you want with them, the connectors are more compact, and I know they're very reliable. I have heard that SCART switches can be not so reliable. Not claiming a fact, just what I've heard.
Fudoh wrote: - you might want to put that LM1881 into the switchbox and not into the adapter cable.
I put EL4583's and a few other things inside some of my project boxes, but I'm able to service them. I suggested that he keep the LM1881 in a cable, maybe inline in a mini project box, so that if he ever did have a switch box wear out it would still be completely stock, and therefore easily replaceable.
Fudoh wrote: - the LM1881 requires power which might not be sufficiently provided by EVERY system
I've powered LM1881's and EL4583's with the +5v output from the av ports on just about every major console, and haven't had any problems. They don't draw much power.
Fudoh wrote: - some/most systems have "stuff" inside the scart headers (capacitors/resistors etc), so you need that transplanted into the HD15 headers.
Good catch. In this case, we only need to worry about 220uF capacitors on the RGB lines, but you're right, they need to be somewhere. I should have mentioned that to him. The best place would be after the switching, wherever the LM1881 is. Technically not every console needs them, but I haven't found any to be negatively affected by using them. In my setup, I put them inside a switch box.
Fudoh wrote: The setup you now want does *NOT* support 31khz RGB from a PS2.
Yes, the main problem is 480p from PS1/2/3. [wayofftopic] This was brought to my attention here a few months ago. Prior to that I didn't think it was a problem, because I had in fact used both an LM1881 and an EL4583 to strip sync from my PS3's composite line in 480p when connecting it to a Super Emotia. Of course I should have realized that a composite video output wouldn't actually be active above 480i, but it seemed to be working so it didn't cross my mind. Once this was pointed out to me I realized that the reason it seemed to be working was that my Super Emotia just so happens to work with sync on green! I need to get a scope and do things right... I never bothered to fix this because it works, but I really should get around to testing whether you can split the green line to an LM1881 or EL4583.[/wayofftopic]

Anyhow, I did mention to him that he should try using component for the PS2 if he wants 480p. Keeping as many things in RGB as possible simplifies switching, but either a simple circuit to solve the sync on green problem would have to be tested or he would need an RGB interface.

Is there any other benefit to an RGB interface besides sync processing in this case? Doesn't the framemeister provide position adjustments? Smashbro, you'll have to decide if the convenience of having them available on simple knobs is worth having the unit.
Last edited by rCadeGaming on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

Anyhow, I did mention to him that he should try using component for the PS2 if he wants 480p
me too, of course. Multiple times, but he insisted on having RGB due to the lack of noise in the RGsB signal compared to the component signal.
Is there any other benefit to an RGB interface besides sync processing in this case?
if you use an interface with vertical shift, it makes scanline positioning easier, since the Mini does not (yet) support odd/even flip.
rCadeGaming
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by rCadeGaming »

Sounds like adding an RGB interface would be both the simplest and best way to go.
Smashbro29
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Smashbro29 »

I see that the simple way to go here is to forego the final cable being modded and add one of those Extron RGB boxes between the VGA switch and the mini.

Now here's where I ask for the complex way: Can I take the Extron RGB's function and mod it into a cable or it's Extron RGB or nothing?

Also, what do I do about these capacitators?
rCadeGaming
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by rCadeGaming »

Smashbro29 wrote:Can I take the Extron RGB's function and mod it into a cable
You'd be re-engineering one. Not feasible, and Extron RGB's are cheap anyhow.
Smashbro29 wrote:Also, what do I do about these capacitators?
Check your PM's.
Smashbro29
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Smashbro29 »

rCadeGaming wrote:
Smashbro29 wrote:Can I take the Extron RGB's function and mod it into a cable
You'd be re-engineering one. Not feasible, and Extron RGB's are cheap anyhow.
Duly noted. Checking PMs.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

Can I take the Extron RGB's function and mod it into a cable or it's Extron RGB or nothing
did you want to use more than one VGA switch anyway ? What about using a 203rxi interface, that's a 3:1 switch, so you'd have one switch already and would just add another one instead of two ?? Maybe ?
Smashbro29
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Smashbro29 »

Fudoh wrote:
Can I take the Extron RGB's function and mod it into a cable or it's Extron RGB or nothing
did you want to use more than one VGA switch anyway ? What about using a 203rxi interface, that's a 3:1 switch, so you'd have one switch already and would just add another one instead of two ?? Maybe ?
I want to maximize the amount of inputs I have. As of right now I need the final VGA out to be split into video and audio put the video through the Extron RGB and then put the video from the Extron RGB and audio from the VGA in the new y-cable to mini din and this scores me 13 inputs.

How does this work with an interface that doubles as a switch? How do I run the audio?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

How does this work with an interface that doubles as a switch? How do I run the audio?
it has 3.5mm audio ins/outs as well. If you get custom-made cabling anyway, it hardly makes a difference.
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

My XRGB Mini got it's power adapter delivered yesterday a day sooner than Amazon said. ...Well, I just had to see that it was working, ya know? You know I wouldn't leave it sitting in it's box!! ;)

Well I must say, the Frame Meister provides the best picture I've ever seen from S-Video. I think this is because of the technology in the LCD TV hiding the artefacts. Along with the XRGB changing the picture too. So, don't worry I'm not going to suggest anyone puts up with S-Video for any longer than a week! But yes, very impressive indeed. The colours are not as good as RGB, but if you'd never seen RGB on a good old CRT Monitor from the previous DECADES gone by...well to be honest maybe you need a new hobby? no only kidding stay with this one!! ......then I can see why someone could believe S-Video is great. Still, RGB is simple and honest and best. And for me, as yet, untested on the Mini!! (come on scart leads!!......waiting for international shipping!!)

I think what makes me like the XRGB Mini so much already is the scanlines. Which I had no trouble turning on, After I changed firmware to latest version...(following instructions on the wiki!).



Turned Scanlines on, output to 720p.........nice!!! I actually forgot I was using S-Video. It's that good.


OK! Games! :D

Mario Kart .....the first game I played yesterday... I love Mario Kart. I use it as my benchmark for how a display literally feels while "driving". Now to my mind, CRT is still the winner as far as SPEED goes. My Dynex LCD is a typical consumer LCD on the cheaper end of the scale but it's not bad. It is not that bad as far as response on LCD goes. To me though for speed, CRT will always win, I knew that before the Mini came on the scene. Anyway... Well on the XRGB, Mario Kart looked great. Changed it from Game mode 1 to Game mode 2. Game mode 2 colours are a bit colourful arent they? I put it into Standard. Well, to be honest I liked all these modes. I didn't feel any huge difference in response either way. Game 1 seemed shakey. I decided I liked Standard... I think? I ended up leaving it on something and being happy anyway. Without changing any further settings. There were times when I paused it and just stared open jawed at the picture. :o~

Other games played: Street Fighter 2 Turbo, I never had this game back in the 90s and to me it feels like a very good hack of SF2, which I did have. After a few rounds I switched it off and put on SF2... SLOWWW game compared to turbo! Oh my god was it always this slow? :) Did a few fireballs, actually went a few rounds again. Decided the frame Meister was indeed amazing. WOW. :D Those scanlines really show up good on fighting games where your eyes focus on the characters. Wow they look so much better than "LCD normal". The characters look better than I've ever seen them. Even Honda looked cool. Ya know Sumo wrestlers are actually athletes?! Wow.....I didn't know that! What a picture!

Parodius, the one with Michael, the FLYING PIG! Hahaha. I love this game, it's one of my "new" favourites. I played this one for over half an hour! So good to play on a big screen. It's been years since I'd played a shooter for this long. How nice it is to be able to use a big screen with scanlines showing the pixel art in all it's splendor. Last shooter i played was UN Squadron back in the 90's, I think I completed it back then, but actually I probably didn't lol. Anyway I had more fun with Parodius this time round. Cool game, with its comical off the wall humour and music that is literally rip offs of classic real songs! Anyway, response time was good on the display. I am convinced by the Meister that for LCD technology it is indeed the way to go for us when stuck with LCD. To be honest, being stuck with an LCD has never been so good. It felt fast enough for me.

I'm actually looking forward to the day when the Frame Meister technology is built in to the monitor. I don't see why the XRGB should be seperate from the display. Yes I know it would put all the prices up. Well how about putting it in every decent TV instead?!


So, I actually played my Super Nintendo for longer than half an hour yesterday! The Flame Meister is very good. I must say as far as response time goes I still feel better playing on a good CRT, but the trouble is, I don't HAVE a good CRT. The Flame Meister will tide me over until that day. The LCD is huge, and thin.... beautiful colours.... which is in it's favour. CRT with its better response time, makes it FEEL more engaging. I want that effect combined with the Pixel Perfection of LCD. I want an oompa loompa and I want an oompa loompa NOW. Ach to be fair though, I am splitting hairs. I will be playing my games on both my LCD and still my CRTs. But it just goes to show how good CRT is. You can buy a CRT for $35 that beats any LCD for how it FEELS speed wise......ach, I don't want to ruin this thread with that stuff though.

Anyway..... Very happy. I prescribe as usual, the fastest LCD screen you can get, combined with a Frame Meister... Unless you know of any 50" BVM?

I tried to be honest in this post. I am being VERY PICKY about speed. Now.... how the hell am I going to be able to afford an LCD thats not in the livingroom and another Frame Meister all to myself? haha......yes, it's that good!! :)
Smashbro29
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Smashbro29 »

Sounds like you'd benefit from a better HDTV.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

Synth79, welcome to the Framemeister club :mrgreen:
Game 1 seemed shakey. I decided I liked Standard...
for games that don't require any deinterlacing, you should go with "picture". It has a far less aggressive low pass filter than standard mode and leaves more small details intact.
I must say as far as response time goes I still feel better playing on a good CRT
you're likely mixing up response time and input lag. Response gets a real problem with larger LCDs (the Mario Kart title screen with the karts driving over the green background can cause inches (!) of color trails on larger LCD/LED sets). Do you happen to know the input lag of the display you used ? If you use a really gaming-oriented LCD, there's no chance in hell that you can feel the lag, so it leaves you with the processor lag on it's own.
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

Fudoh wrote:Synth79, welcome to the Framemeister club :mrgreen:
Game 1 seemed shakey. I decided I liked Standard...
for games that don't require any deinterlacing, you should go with "picture". It has a far less aggressive low pass filter than standard mode and leaves more small details intact.
I must say as far as response time goes I still feel better playing on a good CRT
you're likely mixing up response time and input lag. Response gets a real problem with larger LCDs (the Mario Kart title screen with the karts driving over the green background can cause inches (!) of color trails on larger LCD/LED sets). Do you happen to know the input lag of the display you used ? If you use a really gaming-oriented LCD, there's no chance in hell that you can feel the lag, so it leaves you with the processor lag on it's own.

Thank you sir! Pleased to be here. :)

Picture, ok I will try that one. I like the idea of leaving the details as intact as possible. Though I am using S-Video so I guess it will click even better into place with Scart. But yes I will try Picture.

Ahh yes, you know when I was reading my post back to myself, I was thinking I was confusing input lag with response time as well but I forgot to edit that in before I hit "post". ;) See, with a cheaper LCD I can't really be too fussy right now. I have played the Super Nintendo on my 50" Pioneer Kuro Plasma, which really is good and fast... But alas not every TV these days is equal, I know. I will get a better TV eventually, but that is going to take some time.

-- It may sound like I was whinging a bit about the speed. But I did say that I was splitting hairs. And if you think of it this way, I am splitting hairs on a cheap LCD. ...And ending up happy, to boot. So I'd call that a success for the technologies.

Do you happen to know the input lag of the display you used ? If you use a really gaming-oriented LCD, there's no chance in hell that you can feel the lag, so it leaves you with the processor lag on it's own.
No I don't know the input lag, but I have always tried to get fast TVs and have returned 2 LCD tv's in the past due to horrendous lag. (press button, wait for the jump in mario!! type lag!) One of those was a 52" LG !! But this LCD here is not bad at all. I really am splitting hairs as I said. The CRT with Super Mario Kart, feels alive, much faster. But when I say much, I mean, its just an edge that the LCD doesn't have. It's hard to put into words. I'm sure you know what I mean though. I hope!! When you say processor lag, do you mean the Frame Meister as the processor?

I know that 25 ms is 0.025 of a second. But I still say CRT feels better. I mean my hands may not have difficulty in adjusting for the delay, but my mind knows the delay is there. It may sound like I need a better HDTV, and I would say that goes for most everyone on the planet... I am just a fussy man folks :)

Can you recommend a display Fudoh? Preferably HDMI as I don't require one for PC usage at all. (laptop all the way baby)

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

For the record, and giggles, my consumer low end LCD is a Dynex, Model "DX" 46L150 A11 Revision "A" and for TV viewing purposes, it's absolutely fine with not bad backlight leakage. I didn't buy it personally. But it's alright. :)
Last edited by synth79 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

I have played the Super Nintendo on my 50" Pioneer Kuro Plasma, which really is good and fast...
The Kuro wasn't this fast, about 40ms with progressive sources, even higher with 15khz sources. If you feel that your Kuro is faster than your LCD, then your LCD isn't really the fastest.
I know that 25 ms is 0.025 of a second. But I still say CRT feels better.
perfectly valid, but usually the lags (processor + display) just add up and that's what you feel. And while a CRT is still 1.5 frames faster than a Mini + the fastest LCD, it's extremely hard to feel that.
Can you recommend a display Fudoh? Preferably HDMI as I don't require one for PC usage at all. (laptop all the way baby)
what size are you looking for ? The fastest IPS-panel LCDs available are the Dell 2312 (23"), S2470L (24") and S2740L (27") - all under half a frame of delay. If you don't care for color/viewing angle stability, then there're TN panels out there which are also quite fast.
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

Thank you for the recommendations. I suppose I was asking about a suitable replacement for the Dynex livingroom TV. I will probably get a smaller PC monitor first though, like one you've listed there. Thanks!

I feel it constantly when I play a game on the CRT. Constant speed.... I just don't get that feeling from any LCD yet. If I can get that from an LCD that is 50" I will finally put that problem to rest. :) To me the Kuro felt faster than any LCD i've used......perhaps I have just had bad luck with LCD's. But then that's not exactly my fault......just luck. I have been trying to get fast ones. I am actively trying to rid us of lag though by sharing my feelings on this subject and how close I have come to eliminating it.

5 seconds into race start mario kart on the CRT I had a smile on my face. 60hz NTSC Super Nintendo, on a real CRT. If I can match that, with any modern screen... muchos gracias!! :)

Anyway it's been ongoing for years, I don't expect the problem to be solved any time soon, if ever. So pay me no heed. :D I will shout it from the rooftops when I find a display good enough (That is modern and currently in production). Maybe a small company can make or refurb BVM's to order? I would pay for one (or two, one for my cave) :P ..
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

Do you still use the XRGB 3 in B1 Fudoh? Does it impress more than the XRGB Mini in any way? Except it's heft!! ;)

I do think about that on the VGA input of a fast PC Monitor... like the U2312HM 23" you mentioned. it's a really nice price on that DELL too. Opens up VGA as a possibility.. (I know TV's have VGA too, but the XRGB3 is massive (well when theres no space) and my under TV space is FULL)

Also would the XRGB Mini Frame Meister connect alright to the U2312HM 23" ? I see its DVI. Does HDMI copy protection get in the way when plugged into a DVI monitor?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

Do you still use the XRGB 3 in B1 Fudoh?
no, I'm not this sensitive to lag, so I really didn't mind the increased lag on the Mini. XRGB-3 in B1 is very good though and you save that 1.5 frames of delay.
I do think about that on the VGA input of a fast PC Monitor... like the U2312HM 23" you mentioned.
speed-wise certainly the closest you can ever get to a CRT, but it's certainly more of a hassle (compatibility-wise).
Also would the XRGB Mini Frame Meister connect alright to the U2312HM 23" ? I see its DVI. Does HDMI copy protection get in the way when plugged into a DVI monitor?
DVI to HDMI cable and it's fine. Signals are the same. HDCP doesn't matter. Both the Mini and Dell are HDCP-compliant.
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

Fudoh wrote:
Do you still use the XRGB 3 in B1 Fudoh?
no, I'm not this sensitive to lag, so I really didn't mind the increased lag on the Mini. XRGB-3 in B1 is very good though and you save that 1.5 frames of delay.
I do think about that on the VGA input of a fast PC Monitor... like the U2312HM 23" you mentioned.
speed-wise certainly the closest you can ever get to a CRT, but it's certainly more of a hassle (compatibility-wise).
Also would the XRGB Mini Frame Meister connect alright to the U2312HM 23" ? I see its DVI. Does HDMI copy protection get in the way when plugged into a DVI monitor?
DVI to HDMI cable and it's fine. Signals are the same. HDCP doesn't matter. Both the Mini and Dell are HDCP-compliant.
Excellent man, thank you so much. Great info there. I know my words aren't bang on all the time, but that processing lag or whatever you wanna call it, I just want rid of it. But I just played Mario Kart just now, and loving it. Picture mode is fantastic. My new favorite mode. I erm, I do exaggerate in my posts to highlight the lag. When playing I still have fun. The Dynex is a fantastic screen, though cheap I don't think it's that old at all. I'm going to try and take some pics of it soon and put them up here. I am absolutely loving this despite my "harsh critique". It's more a critique of processor lag as Fudoh says. So don't let it spoil your enjoyment of this truly fantastic machine. The Flame Meister! er Frame Meister.

I can't emphasise the splitting hairs enough. The screen I'm using is fast. It's more just a feeling guys. You CRT fans amongst us will know what I'm talking about. Even if I don't (LOL) I don't get any trails on the Mario Kart title screen. No trails at all that I can see. Even on F-Zero, one of the greatest racing games ever. So it really is just me being extremely OCD. Alright? Phew. ;)

Pics coming soon but for now I have to resume my responsibilites and take the doggies out a walk :)

Thanks again Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by BuckoA51 »

Do you still use the XRGB 3 in B1 Fudoh? Does it impress more than the XRGB Mini in any way? Except it's heft!! ;)
I have both my XRGB3 and Mini set up on the same TV. My TV's a KDL-40Z4500 which I chose because it's supposed to have 10ms of lag or less. Now, I have to state that the XRGB3 won't work directly on my TV (this is true of many modern TV's) so it has to be chained through the DVDO Edge first, which reports to add 6ms of lag but we're not entirely sure how far that can be trusted.

Comparing lag on feel alone there's not much between it. The reason I tend to use the XRGB3 where I can is mainly due to the picture sizing options available on the DVDO. Especially when playing PAL content on an Amiga say, with big boarders, it can be great to zoom in the picture on something like Lords of Chaos. I don't really understand why the Mini blacks out every time you resize the picture a notch.

I do worry about lag. I've probably put this here before but I liken it to drinking alcohol. You can have a beer and think that your reactions are unaffected, but if you actually test it scientifically they are. Same with lag, you might blame your reactions if you miss that plaform or hit that bullet you were trying yo weave past, but if the display had been lagfree you might have just made it.

That said, I would not go to the bother of getting an XRGB3 to save on lag, I just happen to have one already. The XRGB3 in my opinion was/is a colossal hassle. Issues like incompatibilities with PC Engine, needing raw sync cables on most consoles and noise on some of the inputs (in my experience all the component video inputs except the GAME_IN) the Mini is a massive improvement really. If an XRGB4 is ever released a more modern version of B1 mode would be nice I suppose but I suspect there's only so much you can do with pure line-doubling before you create a device that's incompatible with a large number of TV's.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
chadti99
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by chadti99 »

Just wanted to report that my newly acquired Sharp X68k works great through my Mini, at least with the one game I have, Aquales. The cable I have even supplies audio from the RGB out port on the X68k which I wasn't expecting.

The Mini reports input as:
720x521p @ 55.44Hz
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

BuckoA51 wrote:
Do you still use the XRGB 3 in B1 Fudoh? Does it impress more than the XRGB Mini in any way? Except it's heft!! ;)
I do worry about lag. I've probably put this here before but I liken it to drinking alcohol. You can have a beer and think that your reactions are unaffected, but if you actually test it scientifically they are. Same with lag, you might blame your reactions if you miss that plaform or hit that bullet you were trying yo weave past, but if the display had been lagfree you might have just made it.

One of the best quotes on lag I've ever read. I feel vindicated! And happy to meet a "Fellow" Amiga user. ;) I don't have an Amiga here yet. Not sure when I will get one. (But when I do it'll probably be a 1200 with CF reader.) Yea, lag like alcohol...exactly. I literally didn't manage to put it better myself. It's exactly like booze. Yep. That's how my mind knows, cuz it feels it when I drink a cold one. And now my mind knows that I know how my mind knows it.

Wait this is getting confusing. ;D Pleased to meet you Buck! Thanks for the info on the XRGB 3. So basically, if you have a mini, wait for a 4. Got it. Thank you.

Doggies and I had a great 2 hour walk and I'm sitting here now listening to the Mario Kart music play over and over again on the Score screen. It's hypnotic for a while, then it just gets annoying. LOL.
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

720x521p @ 55.44Hz
hmm, why would the X68k output as such a weird refresh rate ? Does anybody what it's supposed to say ?
What kind of game did you play ? If you had a scrollig title at this refresh and it converted to 59.94Hz, it would be messy.
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Smashbro29 »

it has 3.5mm audio ins/outs as well. If you get custom-made cabling anyway, it hardly makes a difference.
Image

Only 2 of them seem to have audio in. Unless I'm not seeing it correctly.
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by amaradona »

As a first post on this board,I would like to describe my experience with xrgb series.


I have the xrgb 2 and the mini.
All my consoles except a pal ps2 ,are japanese with rgb 21 pin cable.
with the latest firmware,the mini was able to handle the neogeo,supergrafx,pc engine duo,duo-r,super famicom,saturn.
Everything was good on the pal LG Lcd TV.
the issue was more with a sega blast city supergun...none of my pcb was able to be displayed on the tv via 21 rgb cable.
I had to buy a euro scart cable + the xrgb mini scart adapter (without the sync stripper) to be able to run the following pcb on the pal TV.
-the outfoxies
-daimakaimura
-Chelnov
-gaiapolis

With the sync stripper the image was out of sync unfortunately.

I will continue to test more pcb as well.
chadti99
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by chadti99 »

Fudoh wrote:
720x521p @ 55.44Hz
hmm, why would the X68k output as such a weird refresh rate ? Does anybody what it's supposed to say ?
What kind of game did you play ? If you had a scrollig title at this refresh and it converted to 59.94Hz, it would be messy.

Yah I thought that was a weird input signal. The game is a side scrolling action platformer, scrolling appears smooth. There are some subtle artifacts on one of the levels between the parallax layers, kinda hard to describe, looks great otherwise.

Update: Fudoh is right, scrolling is a bit jerky if you really pay attention to it.
Last edited by chadti99 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
ekek2009
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by ekek2009 »

I just got a framemeister and have a few generic n00b questions. If someone could chime in and help me out that'd be great; I just recently got back into retro gaming.

So I bought this converter and a vga cable for my Dreamcast. I can't get the converter to display an image at all on either of my LED's and when I hook it up to the mini, it's out of sync with bobble and audio dropouts. Then the mini drops video completely and eventually picks the signal backup. In between dropouts I played with all the settings I could and noticed it's syncing at 59hz. Is there a way to change the sync?

converter http://www.ebay.com/itm/230916606551?ss ... 1497.l2649

I also bought a few RGB cables from retro accessories and I'm awaiting a response because I'm not sure if the NTSC Saturn cable is JP21 or Euro scart. Does anyone have that cable and can confirm the pinout for the cable they received?

If I can't fix the Dreamcast issue, what's the best (cost effective) way to upscale 480p with the mini? I'm looking into transcoding to component but would like the transcoder to also do 480i so I can toggle between and try and force 480p if possible.

Thanks all...
jimbobiii
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:20 pm

Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by jimbobiii »

hey guys,

new to the board, and retro console scaling, but not to retro consoles (I own pretty much all of the NTSC consoles from NES to present day).

I just moved and finally have all my retro consoles and games out again, which is fantastic. I ordered a framemeister xrgb-mini from Solaris and it's shipped. I also ordered a US power adapter from Amazon so I'm good there.

The main question I have is what cables do I need for the best connection? I'm honestly unfamiliar with SCART / RGB connections. As I understand there's an RGB connector on the front, and that said connector is superior to say S-Video. That said, the RGB connection is NOT a scart connection? (same wires but different locations?)

So the questions - what cabling should I be using to hook up these NTSC systems - and do you have preferred vendors?

NES
SNES - (Does this look right? any experiences with their cables? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Nintendo- ... 2ec5ceb0e1)
Genesis 2 + 32X + Sega CD (this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-seller-Sega- ... 2ec5ceb0e3)
Turbo Duo
N64 ( use same cable as SNES?)
Saturn (this one? but it seems like it's straight up SCART? so confused http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-ste ... 257a4bcca3).

honestly, if I go all European cables or all NTSC doesn't really matter, just trying to figure out the best way to hook stuff up and the differences between Japanese RGB / NTSC SCART / EU SCART.

Thanks in advance
j
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synth79
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Location: California

Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

Snes model UN12393946 in S-Video. I am loving this folks, I can't imagine RGB Scart on the Meister. These are not RGB. :)

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... sort=2&o=0

oh yes and the obligatory message about how these photos don't do it justice. They really don't. I can still see the scanlines on the couch, but you might notice when the camera (my mobile phone!) gets a little bit away from the screen the scanlines seem to disappear. ...They don't in real life, obviously!

This is part 1 of 2 of the SNES UN12393946's photos. "S-Video"

Part 2 will be RGB Scart
Last edited by synth79 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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synth79
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by synth79 »

It was really difficult to get the colours to be accurately photographed. As you can see in the Ghouls n Ghosts pic, where Arthur and the Princess are in the Palace. His armour actually looks perfect in real life. Unfortunately this doesn't show as perfect in the photo so you'll just have to trust me on this.

I can't imagine how RGB will improve upon this in this particular SNES's case at least.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !)

Post by Fudoh »

@ekek2009:

all those cheap VGA to HDMI are hit or miss. Some might work, others might not. You can connect a Dreamcast to the Mini through the front Mini-Din8 input using a passive sync combiner or a sync processor / RGB interface ($20-25 on ebay). This way it will 100% fine.
I also bought a few RGB cables from retro accessories and I'm awaiting a response because I'm not sure if the NTSC Saturn cable is JP21 or Euro scart
they're all Euro Scart.
what's the best (cost effective) way to upscale 480p with the mini?
you don't need a transcoder. http://www.ebay.com/itm/140910129336
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