ST: Battle Garegga (20.7.14 - edits, record replays list)

For posting and requesting strategic gameplay tips on shmups!
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Icarus
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Post by Icarus »

guigui wrote:Hey Icarus, really nice job for this strategy thread.

Is there a kind of .pdf or printable version somewhere ?

If not, I'll be making one of not-top quality for my own use. I can give it to you if you wish.
Thanks. And nope, no printable or PDF out just yet. I am planning on doing one over the summer after I get my main study commitments out of the way, but not until I've done a complete rewrite of some of the stage guides and fleshed out current information.

Feel free to do your own version, though.
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ncp
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Post by ncp »

Maybe this is covered somewhere and I just don't see it or something, but why is it that you can sometimes drop 3 bombs with Gain? Every once in a while I manage to get 3 bombs off simultaneously, but every other time it limits it at 2. Anyone know what the trick is?
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Post by Twiddle »

sprite limit
so long and tanks for all the spacefish
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<Megalixir> now that i know garegga is faggot central i can disregard it entirely
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Post by ncp »

Oh, god.

Raizing, I am disappoint.
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Twiddle
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Post by Twiddle »

just autobomb before the first house shows up problem solved

yeah that's the only real use for autofire on bomb
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<Megalixir> now that i know garegga is faggot central i can disregard it entirely
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Post by ncp »

lol. 4 button game:

Shot
Bomb
Option
Flamingo button
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bkk
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Post by bkk »

Six actually if you include autofire on shot and option :D
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Enhasa
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Enhasa »

Has anyone heard anything about grazing slightly reducing your rank? Not that it's very practical but I seem to recall Batrider is the same way. I base this off nothing other than what T3-Kamui does stage 7 before bombing the plane (replay at superplay).
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by moozooh »

Seems like a very strange way to reduce rank at that point, to say the least.
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Enhasa
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Enhasa »

Well he needs all his lives, and he wants to be at higher rank both before and after that moment. (He shoots for a while, not gaining any points from chipping, right afterwards.) Not sure how much difference it even makes, but I figured he's ranking down just so his bomb is powerful enough.

Of course, it might not even matter but you know how human nature works. Let's say once you bomb and it's not enough. Even if it's just an anomaly, next time you graze one cycle before bombing and it "works," so you just do that from now on. I don't really claim to know if that's the case here though.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Twiddle »

No, there is no grazing nor is there a rank decrease from doing so. Kamui's just squeezing some extra rank points out of survival time since he has auto60 by the time he gets there and is just squeezing in between those bullets for kicks.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Enhasa »

Thanks! Though, I suppose he could be shooting during that time for even more rank.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by ncp »

he's just showing off / having fun.

first time is saw that I was like "w@"

edit: on that note, the way he does the first boss is damn amazing.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Doctor Fugue »

I am having difficulty understanding the optimum strategy for the Plateau boss. I use Golden Bat, and the guide recommends: wait for inner turrets to activate -> suicide -> sit on boss -> use Weapon.

I understand the outer ring needs to be destroyed with Weapon, but why can it not be taken out before the inner turrets activate? Indeed, why can't I use Weapon from a distance such that the flames just reach the outer turrets, leaving the core unharmed?

Thanks!
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by captpain »

Doctor Fugue wrote:I am having difficulty understanding the optimum strategy for the Plateau boss. I use Golden Bat, and the guide recommends: wait for inner turrets to activate -> suicide -> sit on boss -> use Weapon.

I understand the outer ring needs to be destroyed with Weapon, but why can it not be taken out before the inner turrets activate? Indeed, why can't I use Weapon from a distance such that the flames just reach the outer turrets, leaving the core unharmed?

Thanks!
IIRC, you won't get rid of the whole outer rig and all parts individually by just blasting it from a distance, and the activated inner turrets prevent the core from being damaged.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Doctor Fugue »

Thanks. I guess I was hoping that by "tickling" the outer ring from afar I could avoid damaging the core. But, as you say, it does not properly remove all the parts of the outer ring.

My real problem is that I die 50% of the time while waiting for the inner ring to activate, and I was trying to find an easier way out. I do not have enough confidence in dodging those out-of-sync diverging circles of double-cyclic undirected twin bullets.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Arvandor »

I can't figure out how to bomb the second boss turrets without killing him.

I can pick them off shooting them, but whenever I bomb, whether the turrets are active or not, the center ring flashes and dies. I've tried waiting until the chime, I've tried waiting one pattern after the chime, I've tried watching the inner turrets activate, I've tried picking off the outer ring with shot, and then weapon the turrets. NOTHING freaking works.

wtf?

Edit: Also, on the first boss, does that very front middle propeller gain health over the course of the fight? It seems like if I can take the right side out fast enough and sneak up to take out the right propeller, I can take out the front nose as well. But if I can't get to it then, even if I let some piercing shots go through and hit the nose, then when I go up to take out the front nose and left prop, it just WILL NOT FUCKING DIE. So sometimes, when the fight goes that long, I try to hit it with piercing shots to lower its health, and sometimes it'll just die in two hits. I watch it the whole fight for flashes to see if my piercing shots hit it, and even still I can't seem to keep track of how much it takes to die. It's really frustrating.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by bkk »

Arvandor wrote:I can't figure out how to bomb the second boss turrets without killing him.

I can pick them off shooting them, but whenever I bomb, whether the turrets are active or not, the center ring flashes and dies. I've tried waiting until the chime, I've tried waiting one pattern after the chime, I've tried watching the inner turrets activate, I've tried picking off the outer ring with shot, and then weapon the turrets. NOTHING freaking works.

wtf?
Don't bomb them :D
Arvandor wrote:Edit: Also, on the first boss, does that very front middle propeller gain health over the course of the fight?
Nope.
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Sasupoika
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Sasupoika »

It slightly depends on what character you use. I myself wait over the first pattern. After this I launch Gain's bomb over the boss. If it goes well it will break all the turrets ad grant you million points. Shooting and dying can disturp the turret-destroying.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by charlie chong »

there's a golden bat superplay on the saturn version (you can unlock it by finishing the game so just credit feed) which shows you how to take on mad ball proper and is good for reference. it just takes a lot of good timing is all. i know i struggle with it a lot
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by TLB »

Is it just me, or is it extremely tough to play with such fast ships as Gain, and almost as tough to play with slow stuff like the Golden Bat. I think if I come back to this game I'm either going to play Gain or Golden Bat, actually <_<
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by shadowbringer »

Arvandor: the way I play (as Gain ABC at least; might work with Gain C) when possible:
- reach the flamingoes with zero lives in stock (you may suicide some lives in the blimp at the beginning of the stage in order to use it to increase your medal value). Whether or not you do the suicide+extend trick on the flamingoes (this means, suiciding when you have zero lives in stock makes your ship spill out a full bomber item; very difficult to do, at least for me, as it requires that your bombs make you earn enough points for another extend right before the continue screen appears) is up to you (I've reached 2.5m by doing the easy way on the flamigoes, don't remember if I got more, ever), just be sure to have spent all of your bombs here (if you're not using Gain, who's able to spam bombs, you'll be using any remaining bombs later, before the boss)
- when you reach the 3 tanks that try to crush the houses (you can destroy them for medals, as long as they're going through the houses), there will be ground turrets that reveal small bomb icons when destroyed (don't collect them yet), and shortly after you destroy the 3rd tank, start laying off your remaining bombs in order to destroy the homing brown ships (they're worth 2,000 points if destroyed with bombs). As you spend your bombs, collect the small bomber icons when you're completely out of bombs, spend it, collect again, repeat until they stop coming (which is before the 3 tanks that come from the left, through the trees). Start collecting all the small bomber icons (tip: if you collect an option item, you'll likely activate the Wide formation, by having missed 5 small shot powerup icons. If you activate it, use it until you've got past the medium tank at the center of the screen; from there, switch the Option formation once to activate the Spread formation, which is more useful imho against the bomber planes and the two medium planes which contain up to 6 medals)
- you should reach the boss with at least (more or less) 20 small bomber icons (40 small bomber icons are equal to 1 large bomber icon). Your goal is to lay your bomb when the boss is retracting itself and have your bomb hit all of the boss' parts, all of which must be under the "Insert Coin" text (refer to the picture in the first page), since any enemies above it are invulnerable. You may (or have to, if the boss doesn't give an opening until then) wait for the inner turrets to activate after the 5th (iirc) wave, or wait until the central turret activate one wave after (however I try to avoid waiting for the central turret, since it makes bombing the boss too difficult for me atm). An example of a bombing opportunity would be (depending if the boss decides to use that pattern ;D) the boss charging its laser attacks while being at the top center of the screen. You then go to the left side of the boss, lure the lasers and the inner ring's destructable shots there, then, as you only have to worry against the aimed bullets of the inner ring, go down, right (you'll reach the center of the screen), right, up, down, left (again, at the center. You should now be in the position and time to use the bomb, as the boss starts retracting itself and moving down). You may then start damaging the remaining turrets (remember to suicide once -- assuming that you've got an extend from bombing the boss once -- in order to have bomb fragments to use at the beginning of the 3rd stage).

m3tallica: try the Gain C ship, it's more powerful than the default Gain, and not as fast as the Gain B or the Gain ABC. I myself prefer the Gain ABC because I started playing with it, so I'm used to it now :p (the other reason is that the ship speed may save your medal chain.. I'm afraid that the rank increase may be another incentive for using that ship's speed :p)
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by bkk »

These little boats sometimes appear and drop a bomb fragment if you shoot them:
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What triggers these? If you are low on bombs they can easily mean a 100k difference in medals.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Plasmo »

I'm not too sure, but maybe they only come out of the houses when you haven't destroyed them already. Try not to bomb them too early.
Then again, you shouldn't be low on bombs there. There are 4 big bomber items right before the ending bit and even if you don't get these, there are enough small tanks around there, I'm sure you don't need this boat.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Plasmo »

Some stuff about BHMKII

For BHMKII's Phase 3 Attack pattern, Icarus wrote:

Code: Select all

Randomly selected movement pattern with attack pattern ->
Moving Vulcan attack ->
Randomly selected movement pattern with attack pattern ->
Moving Vulcan attack ->
Drop downscreen while firing grenades/spread combination ->
Slide across the base of the screen in your direction ->
Move back up to top of the screen, still firing combination -> REPEAT ->
That is not quite correct.
First of all, when BHMKII drops downscreen, he doesn't neccessarily have to slide across the screen. Sometimes he just decides to immediately go up again, like he does during the second phase.
Another thing that's missing, is another attack he does after moving up again. (but before the whole cycle is repeating itself)
The correct attack cycle for the third phase should be:

Code: Select all

Randomly selected movement pattern with attack pattern ->
Moving Vulcan attack ->
Randomly selected movement pattern with attack pattern ->
Moving Vulcan attack ->
Drop downscreen while firing grenades/spread combination ->
[ Slide across the base of the screen in your direction -> ]
Move back up to top of the screen, still firing combination -> 
Randomly selected movement pattern with attack pattern -> REPEAT ->

It is also worth noting that the third phase will time out sooner, if you've took too long on the other phases. If you're going for the timeout on all phases, the maximum number of attack cycles and individual attacks is as follows:

Phase One: 2 2/3 cycles - 8 individual attack patterns
1. Random attack
2. Random attack
3. Reflective Vulcan
4. Initial attack
5. Random attack
6. Reflective Vulcan
7. Initial attack
8. Random attack

Phase Two: 2 1/3 cycles - 7 individual attacks
1. Yoyo pointblank grenade attack
2. Yellow spray pattern
3. Yellow spray pattern
4. Yoyo pointblank grenade attack
5. Yellow spray pattern
6. Yellow spray pattern
7. Yoyo pointblank grenade attack

Phase Three: 1 5/6 cycles - 11 individual attacks
1. Random attack
2. Moving Vulcan
3. Random attack
4. Moving Vulcan
5. Drop downscreen (slide across screen)
6. Random attack
7. Random attack
8. Moving Vulcan
9. Random attack
10. Moving Vulcan
11. Drop downscreen (slide across screen)

BHMKII's 27th and last attack is always the same: He uses his reflective Vulcan while dropping downscreen and tries to ram you.

With this knowledge one should approach this boss the following way:
Check his very first attack of the first phase, if it involves grenades, try to milk the first phase i.e. let it timeout after 8 attacks. If the first attack does not invovle grenades, try to get to the second phase as soon as possible, so that the third phase takes longer before the timeout and your chances to get a lot of grenade attacks during that phase rises.
Since you don't have to deal with anything random during the second phase, you should milk all three grenade attacks (1st, 4th and 7th attack of that phase) and let this phase timeout.
The third phase can get very difficult, because it can generate some really nasty patterns, that seem to be almost impossible. The most important attacks during this phase are the 5th and 11th. If you have enough bombs in stock, these two attacks alone can yield up to 1,2mill points! (Use two bombs for each of them, only when he slides across the screen of course) You should try to destroy the boss right after the 11th attack.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by moozooh »

With this knowledge, what do you think the theoretical limit for Gain is? Something around 20.8–21 million?
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Plasmo »

If you take the 20,1mill replay that's on super-play.co.uk, you can add 500k only from the flamingoes (INH dvd shows very close to 3,7mill after the flamingoes) and an additional 200k for milking the TLB for around 12 attack cycles. Imo the BHMKII milking is already close to perfection, maybe you can get +100k there with a bit of luck. 21mill theoretically is possible, although heavily relied on luck. Everything above 20mill is already only possible with luck, there are just too many random bits in Garegga... :?

EDIT
Completely forgot about that chainbreak in stage 6, that's another 130k then.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Plasmo »

random post

KET just finished off a great run on Harder mode with 5,5mill (I think) and died at the sixth boss. Kamui (also in the channel) said that the potential in Harder is very high and that a guy called Yakuchi has a score of 16mill with Gain, which is probably the WR score at the moment, though noone actually knows for sure of course (Arcadia doesn't keep track of other mode's scores).

Random bits I found reading the Garegga handbook regarding the Saturn port:

-You are supposed to be able to score more consistently on the birds. I don't know how to believe this. I sometimes get 2,5mill and sometimes with the same movements 3,5mill. I'm just glad I've never played the original hardware. Must be horrible for sure.
-The superplays on the disc were heavily played with restarts. The players used over hundred restarts for the last stage alone.
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by moozooh »

What kind of restarts? Like savestates at the beginning of the stage basically?
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Re: ST: Battle Garegga (17.03.09 - st1-6 updates + links)

Post by Plasmo »

Exactly.
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