Bullet Hell feature - Edge

[Aru-san]

They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today.

But... I like manic. In both my fighters AND my shooters. Guilty Gear XX series and DDP:DOJ for the win =)

I find it funny that a Japanese developer is actually ADMITTING that their games are too hard...yet they churn out more of the hard stuff anyways. If a 360 port comes (sorry, my brother let his friend borrow the PS2 and never gave it back), it's an instaBuy for me.

If this shooting revival project goes well, I hope to see through it that to the masses, doing the same old same old can still be fun. I mean, just because you're doing the same old same old numerous times (dodge, shoot, kill, repeat) doesn't mean it's not fun. It's dependent on the games you play, not the concept.

[Zebra Airforce]

Sounds less like a confession and more like an excuse to me.

Also:

Why to you think the arcade shooter genre is struggling so much nowadays and selling so little?

The reason is very simple, and similar to the situation with fighting games: They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today.

There are more fighting games than ever coming to market.

[spadgy]

To the various people who have PM'd me or asked, I'll get back to you this lunchtime (GMT). Insane at work...

[rtw]

Enjoy

http://www.mediafire.com/?sotmtyhzlj5

rtw

[Observer]

Enjoy

http://www.mediafire.com/?sotmtyhzlj5

rtw

Thanks a lot! It's proving to be quite an interesting read. In fact, I'm surprised this made it to a mainstream magazine. (because Edge is a mainstream magazine, right? Sorry, I have no idea so if anyone wouldn't mind to enlighten me it'll be thanked)

Also, lol at the "overseas users are not very interested in japanese RPGs". I thought it was the other way around.

[KNTain]

I find it funny that a Japanese developer is actually ADMITTING that their games are too hard...yet they churn out more of the hard stuff anyways.

"They?" What's the last shooter this guy made?

[jpj]

thanks mate - you saved me from buying a copy of edge magazine

[Taylor]

It's a good article, I'm quite impressed. Though maybe not that appropriately named as it doesn't mention the type of shmups we associate with "Bullet Hell" at all, except for a passing mention of Cave and DoDonPachi. :)

I hope Sega have some success but, from the way it's worded, if Thunder Force doesn't make an attractive amount of money it'll probably end there.

[Octopod]

The only copy of Edge I have ever bought was a couple months or so ago because it had an Einhander retrospective. Pricey mag but I will pick up this issue when I see it at Barnes & Noble. Sounds like a good read.

[system11]

"The reason is very simple, and similar to the situation with fighting games: They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today. "

This is an opinion I've shared for a long time - by servicing and keeping happy the hardcore fans, companies have been neglecting the other 70% of gamers they need to keep interested in the genre.

[hirounder]

Enjoy

http://www.mediafire.com/?sotmtyhzlj5

rtw

Thanks a lot

I see 2 interesting G.Rev bits in there;
- they're planning to work on network shooter that will be released by famous publisher using legendary franchise (?!)
- still waiting for MS to approve XBLA release of Under Defeat (!)

[sven666]

"The reason is very simple, and similar to the situation with fighting games: They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today. "

This is an opinion I've shared for a long time - by servicing and keeping happy the hardcore fans, companies have been neglecting the other 70% of gamers they need to keep interested in the genre.

mushihimesama, mushihimesama futari, dodonpachi daifukkatsu, Deathsmiles, Raiden 4

a few recent games that cater to the non-hardcore if you ask me, playing deathsmiles at rank 1 seems ridiculously easy.
and not getting a 1-all in DDP5s bomber mode is an achievement in itself.

i definetly think companies are on the ball with making games more accessible while keeping the "hardcore" fans happy.

[Udderdude]

not getting a 1-all in DDP5s bomber mode is an achievement in itself.

You have to wonder how fun it is to sit there and slap the bomb button over and over though .. doesn't sound like it. :p

[sven666]

not getting a 1-all in DDP5s bomber mode is an achievement in itself.

You have to wonder how fun it is to sit there and slap the bomb button over and over though .. doesn't sound like it. :p

it autobombs so you dont even have to press the bomb button and yeah it sucks pretty badly, luckily the other modes are very good so us "hardcore" ( ) players still get our fix.

funny story is i had a girl play thru it using only the credit button and the bomb button (no shot and no stick, she still claimed it was really fun?)...

[Aquas]

^ Of course, blowing up shit is fun as hell.

Thanks for the scan. It sounds like this guy still has a good amount of hope for shooters, if anything.

[Frederik]

"The reason is very simple, and similar to the situation with fighting games: They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today. "

This is an opinion I've shared for a long time - by servicing and keeping happy the hardcore fans, companies have been neglecting the other 70% of gamers they need to keep interested in the genre.

mushihimesama, mushihimesama futari, dodonpachi daifukkatsu, Deathsmiles, Raiden 4

a few recent games that cater to the non-hardcore if you ask me, playing deathsmiles at rank 1 seems ridiculously easy.
and not getting a 1-all in DDP5s bomber mode is an achievement in itself.

i definetly think companies are on the ball with making games more accessible while keeping the "hardcore" fans happy.

I don´t think "manic" actually means anything in terms of difficulty. I find the bullet hell of DDP stage four A LOT easier than the first stage of Gradius III arcade. Putting a lot of bullets on the screen while still keeping it relatively easy is what drew me into this genre in the first place. Most shooters I play are from 1995 and onwards, when bullet hell started taking off. I find games like Raiden much harder even if they are a lot less "manic".

[Mortificator]

I agree. Batsugun pretty much started manic shooters, and it's a lot easier and more accessible than Toaplan's earlier games.

[MX7]

It's the illusion of challenge that I enjoy about modern manics. It accurately conveys the same thrilling feeling of James Bond (or any other generic action hero) running through a burning building, seemingly impervious to everything. It's a great experience altogether.

[PROMETHEUS]

I don't think STGs lost customers because they became manics, manics are what works best to attract newbies today. Cave is doing a fairly good job of attracting new customers with the new "Super easy to lear, super hard to master" titles such as Futari or DFK or DS.

I think the old school genre in STG has lost its appeal long ago when other genres offered better way of presenting artwork and atmosphere to gamers. People who aren't playing STG today can only be attracted to STG if you present them how unique a challenge they are, not how unique an art piece they can be.

[jpj]

Cave is doing a fairly good job of attracting new teenage customers with loli's and breasts

fixed

[Frederik]

I also think that the simple graphical pleasure of bullet hell games drew me in as well. I like challenge, but not in a G´n`G or Battletoads way. Manic shmups are challenging, but they also look fantastic even if you don´t know what´s going on. They have a very hypnotic, aesthetic feel look to them.

[Drascin]

I think the old school genre in STG has lost its appeal long ago when other genres offered better way of presenting artwork and atmosphere to gamers. People who aren't playing STG today can only be attracted to STG if you present them how unique a challenge they are, not how unique an art piece they can be.

Yeah. Artwork and atmosphere are still very important (a good/bad soundtrack can make or break a shmup for many, including myself. And a lot of the market now are, and pardon the wording, graphics whores, who refuse to play anything not in a shiny 3D), but the most important thing to stress is the gameplay type. Stress the fact that they are fast challenges, something that you can play for short amounts of time every day, that gives you instant fun but can be hard to be really good at (in that way, I'm wondering why there aren't more shooters in portable consoles. I mean, the gameplay is tailor-made for portability!).

However, it is true that we need some more "bridge" shooters, or at least make the ones there are more wellknown, because most of the genre is rather... unfriendly to easily-frustrated newbies. One of my friends liked R-Type when he was a kid, and rented Nanostray 2 for his DS when he saw it in a game shop, wanting to relive the childhood memories. It destroyed him horribly, and put him off again from shmups.


EDIT:

I also think that the simple graphical pleasure of bullet hell games drew me in as well. I like challenge, but not in a G´n`G or Battletoads way. Manic shmups are challenging, but they also look fantastic even if you don´t know what´s going on. They have a very hypnotic, aesthetic feel look to them.

Yeah, same. I reentered the shmup scene when, going around an anime forum to see if I could find the subs for the latest Haruhi episode, I saw a mention of Touhou with a video, and went "...whoa. Is that a shooter? So pretty... Hey, man, what's the name of that game and where can I try it?" I've loved bullet hells ever since.

[Taylor]

Cave is doing a fairly good job of attracting new teenage customers with loli's and breasts

fixed

Which are polar opposites, maybe there's a future mechanic to be had here.