Bullet Hell feature - Edge

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:47 pm

Well, today the new copy of Edge got delivered to work, which I guess means it's hitting subscribers' door matts today, and shops in a few days.

Theres a sizeable shmups feature, plus a huge interview with Sega's Tez Okano about shooters in general, Thunder Force VI, and his favourite all time shooters (Salamander, Chorensha, Tatsujin, Dariius and Space Harrier (!?)).

It's issue 195 - go treat yourself, and if you've got it, what do you think?

An informed shmups article in the mainstream press, or another misguided piece of junk?

Either way, I predict a few new frum sign-ups in the coming days!

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:50 pm

Judging by mainstream reviews of shmups I think I can probably guess which one. I predict lots of misuse of the word "retro". I might still pick up a copy though.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:54 pm

It does seem pretty good, and well researched, with quotes from the CEO of G.Rev and somebody from Triangle Service, but I reserve judgement until I've given it a thorough read rather than a sneaky read in the work toilet!

4 page interview though...

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:21 pm

Speaking of Edge and shoot 'em ups, did anyone ever save their article, The Small Guns (http://www.edge-online.com/archives/200 ... l_guns.php), about G.Rev, Triangle Service, and Milestone? The URL doesn't work anymore and it looks like they've taken it down.

hirounder · Post by **hirounder** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:56 pm

I wonder what Maruyama and Fujino had to say this time, and yes they were already interviewed by Edge 3 years ago...

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:44 pm

There could have been reviews of Raiden IV and/or Otomedius in this issue, too, if their respective publishers hadn't pushed the release dates back. Now that they're out during the busy part of the year, it's not going to happen.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:58 pm

MathU wrote:Speaking of Edge and shoot 'em ups, did anyone ever save their article, The Small Guns (http://www.edge-online.com/archives/200 ... l_guns.php), about G.Rev, Triangle Service, and Milestone? The URL doesn't work anymore and it looks like they've taken it down.

I backed it up in this entry on my LJ some time ago.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:59 pm

FIL wrote:I predict lots of misuse of the word "retro".

Hahaha I love this forum

Totally with you.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:23 pm

captpain wrote:
FIL wrote:I predict lots of misuse of the word "retro".
Hahaha I love this forum

Totally with you.

Add to that a probable mention to Ikaruga as the ultimate shooter.

Ok, here we go for the odd request: unless this article is featured online too... wouldn't you mind to scan it? Of course, thanks in advance.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:23 pm

Kiken wrote:
MathU wrote:Speaking of Edge and shoot 'em ups, did anyone ever save their article, The Small Guns (http://www.edge-online.com/archives/200 ... l_guns.php), about G.Rev, Triangle Service, and Milestone? The URL doesn't work anymore and it looks like they've taken it down.
I backed it up in this entry on my LJ some time ago.

That was pretty cool! The G.Rev guy really has his head on straight.

t0yrobo · Post by **t0yrobo** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:06 am

Would it be possible to get scans? I'm cheap and lazy.

D · Post by D » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:50 am

Damn, I got the previous Edge for my birthday and it was total crap!

Post by **spadgy** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:33 am

It's actually a good article in most regards.

Some interesting insights into the problems funding shooter development and the restrictions of pricepoints set by the likes of the Simple 2500 series. A little on why the 360 has become the current-gen choice for shooter dev (ie the PS3 costs too much), and some stuff on the pros and cons of WiiWare/XBL/PSN as a shooter release platform.

The article, which is mostly very informed (ie. discussion of the different way of porting from System 16 boards, the merits of Naomi and a possible replacement, Taito X2 etc) puts a spin on things that suggests the pressure in Japan to develop Western-friendly games may sound the death knell of the shmup, though there is some talk of a shooter revival.

Also, there is talk of the fact that only famous STG series sequels can succeed, making it very hard for original shooter - perhaps us lot should take some of the responsibility.

Frankly as it covers the whole genre, it's all very brief, but there's talk of hitboxes, Cave, Death Smiles:Mega Black Label (which will include a new character), Gradius Rebirth, Bangai-O spirits, Dai-Fukkatsu, and beleive it or not, I didn't see one mention of Ikaruga or 'retro' (I haven't read the four page TFIV interview).

You all know me though. My brain is pretty good at missing things...

Finally - the piece has quotes from developers that are very positive about the ongoing potential for arcade ports to 360, suggesting it is far easy to use for such purposes than the PS2. However, there some scepticism about the future of our niche genre.

Oh, and apparently. "shooters have a fanatical coterie of fans that obsess over the details" - don't know who the fuck they are!

Also - As I said over in the TFIV forum, I don't mind buying three or four here in the UK and posting them out. Fudoh already shotgunned one of those places, but I can do it if really needed. However - it might well appear online in a few weeks.

Alas no scanner...

Motorherp · Post by **Motorherp** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:35 am

Apparently there was a talk and slideshow on shmup design and development at the event. Does anyone have access to the slides or know of anywhere they can be downloaded?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 am

spadgy wrote:Also - As I said over in the TFIV forum, I don't mind buying three or four here in the UK and posting them out.

It would be brilliant if you could get a copy for me as well

Meanwhile here is a little something

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzy14nut2jm

rtw

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:05 pm

rtw wrote:
spadgy wrote:Also - As I said over in the TFIV forum, I don't mind buying three or four here in the UK and posting them out.
It would be brilliant if you could get a copy for me as well

Meanwhile here is a little something

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzy14nut2jm

rtw

Is this the article? =O If so, thanks a lot! And, lol, Ikaruga is already mentioned at the second page (they comment G.Rev developed the engine).

Well, time to read now.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:18 pm

that's an article from 2005

excellent read though. funny to see people's thoughts and predictions on the *then* new handhelds too...

spadgy - is this edge next month? ie 23rd october issue? i can't believe you are making me buy this magazine, i've gone 3 years without buying a copy

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:41 pm

jpj wrote:that's an article from 2005
excellent read though. funny to see people's thoughts and predictions on the *then* new handhelds too...

heh, still quite interesting indeed. I never knew what was the whole deal with Trizeal and the SOS message... Poor guy though.

Post by **spadgy** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:44 pm

Observer - the article I'm talking about is a different one from the one rtw linked to... The one I'm on about is from the forthcoming issue of Edge, which subscribers might already have. It uses an event in Japan (3 Big Shooting Festa) as a hub to discuss an apparent shooter revival/decline. {EDIT(Sorry Obs! I took ages to do ths post and you'd already realised!)}

jpj wrote:
spadgy - is this edge next month? ie 23rd october issue? i can't believe you are making me buy this magazine, i've gone 3 years without buying a copy

I know! I got every issue from issue three until about a year ago, when I lost faith...

Luckily the mag I work at get it in.

Anyway - this is the issue marked 'Decemebr 2008'. It has a neon pink Edge logo, and is branded the 'reviews special', and has fake stickers all over the cover. I believe it will be in the shops very soon, so Oct 23rd is very likely correct...

Really - it's a good article, but I'm sure many of you will know most of what's there - although the interview of course might contain new stuffs...

PMing you now rtw...,

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:10 pm

MathU wrote:Speaking of Edge and shoot 'em ups, did anyone ever save their article, The Small Guns, about G.Rev, Triangle Service, and Milestone?

My link was a response to this post, sorry if I have confused anyone.

rtw

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:26 pm

rtw wrote:
MathU wrote:Speaking of Edge and shoot 'em ups, did anyone ever save their article, The Small Guns, about G.Rev, Triangle Service, and Milestone?
My link was a response to this post, sorry if I have confused anyone.

rtw

It's ok. Thanks everyone for the insight as well. It's been ages since the last time I read anything from a gaming magazine. Always nice to know the point of view of the devs.

adversity1 · Post by **adversity1** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:44 pm

scan that shit!

fireleo4 · Post by **fireleo4** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:02 pm

I also would appreciate to see the whole Interview with Tez Okano about Thunderforce VI.

I´ll send you a few bottles of german beer for free for your efforts

Here a a few lines from the Edge Interview, borrowed from Triggerzone.de

Why have you chosen to develop an arcade-style shooter, especially given how the genre is struggling?

Shooters are a special genre, even in the arcade. They're not something you can really make big profits from, so they're often seen as a sign of prosperity. I mean, only companies that are profitable can enjoy themselves developing an arcade shooter. I wanted to see if you could develop this kind of game profitably - try a new business model, if you like. You want to know a secret? There's no such thing as a Thunder Force VI project. The real one is STG Project. It is our attempt to revive a genre, with Thunder Force VI being the first step. Developing a single shooting game would not be profitable, so this is a first step which will be used as a base for future steps, and using names that fans will get very excited about.

I believe that it's because this is Sega, which has such a long history in the arcade, that I was able to get my project approved. If it was a company entirely focused on profitability, there would have been little change of a shooting game being developed.

Why to you think the arcade shooter genre is struggling so much nowadays and selling so little?

The reason is very simple, and similar to the situation with fighting games: They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today.

Will TFVI be released overseas, and if so, how?

I would like to see how download distribution could worked for us. But in that case we have to find a balance with the pricing. On another hand, we could very well shift this title to the PSP. But it is unclear how much that performs if you take Monster Hunter Portable out of the equation here in Japan. It reminds me of the Wii a bit. I'm not sure our game would have much impact on those platforms even if they meet lots of success. So after we release the game on PS2, the next platform we could try is certainly download distribution. Of course should Thunder Force VI do well in Japan, I would be very happy to go with the Xbox 360 for the overseas market.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:21 pm

When will the USA based bookstores like Borders and Barnes & Noble's be getting their shipment of the Dec. 2008 issue of Edge? It's priced at a hefty $12.95 USD btw per single issue at American newstands (assuming that they carry it, of course). ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:21 pm

They're considering 360? Please release it on PS2, I can barely afford a 360

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:59 pm

ZeetherKID77 wrote:They're considering 360? Please release it on PS2, I can barely afford a 360

*cough* PC port like Raiden III *cough*

I mean, come on, no shitty region locking and other annoyances. Just put the damn thing on a disc, make it decently priced through Sega PC and we are good to go. If they want online stuff, put an online scoreboard with a cd-key required or something.

...

Is the Sega PC line still alive? Else, PS2 NTSC-J here we go.

edit:

By the way, let's just hope the whole STG Project boosts the genre as intended.

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:48 am

do you guys think the dreamcast shooters market has finally died out?

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:29 am

Sure, why not.

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:32 am

then that means that the dreamcast has finally died out. also is it bad that I download my dreamcast shooters rather than(due to no money) spend loads of money to get them over here.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:20 am

They became too manic. There is no way you can enjoy those games as they are done today.

But... I like manic. In both my fighters AND my shooters. Guilty Gear XX series and DDP:DOJ for the win =)