shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:50 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:00 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 506
Location: 'Strailya
Voting

Discussion Thread

Aside from maybe a couple minor tweaks, there isn't really anything new on the cards this year, so I figured I'd just make the main discussion thread a couple days early while I finish getting everything set up. As always, use this place to discuss any choices, trends, predictions and whathaveyou relating to the T25. Questions about voting (preferably after it starts) can also be asked here, or sent to me personally. Maybe some hype for new releases from the previous year(s) as well?

Past results:
14th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2016
13th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2015
12th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2014
11th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2013
10th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2012
9th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2010ish
8th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2009
7th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2008
6th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2007
5th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2006
4th Annual Top 25 Results: through 2005
3rd Annual Top 25 Results: through 2004
2nd Annual Top 25 Results: through 2003
Inaugural Top 25 Results: through 2002

Nifty wrote:
incognoscente wrote:
To link directly to your ballot (or any other post):
  1. On the post in question, look at the upper right where the date stamp is. (I hope this is consistent across all themes.)
  2. Right-click on the little sheet of paper to the left of the Posted: text and copy the link address.
  3. Make a link in your commentary post using that destination.
_________________
Live to fly, fly to live, it's all very orthodox
Image


Last edited by Nifty on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Posts: 958
to me it seems like the forum is dying. a lot of the members (players) still exist but don't use forums anymore and I think newer(younger) folks across most interests are getting less and less interested in forums.

Expect worse turnouts every year maybe to the degree that it's not worth the effort to run anymore.

If I'm wrong that's great and It'll be a pleasant surprise if so
_________________
ImageImage
my blog mostly about stgs, progress etc.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 1205
How can it be "dying" if it's international de facto #1 place for shmup lovers? It's no more "dead" than shmups themselve, if you go that route.

Quote:
getting less and less interested in forums.


They prefer discord for quick chats but discords groups are damn nonsense for keeping useful information and search it (they didnt even have search for a long time leaving you with scrolling down chat for months and years); same for half-assed facebook groups engine (cant even search comments content) or reddit (which is against having active old threads). Forums are best for keeping information categorized and searchable yet dynamic and discussion-friendly (unlike wiki), but guess people nowodays dont care.
_________________
Kill the Past / Suda 51 fansite and more | Favorite artwork selection from manuals | My music


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 1395
Location: Germany
This will be the first year where I am technically "allowed" to vote since I've now played/cleared over half of the most popular titles around here. Took me over 500 1CCs to get there, 'twas an arduous expedition. :mrgreen:

Which reminds me that I should get a quick clear of Rayforce before voting, I doubt it's going to make a difference, but I feel like it's a fortuitous opportunity to do so.

Edit: just cleared it, won't appear on my list, fun nonetheless!
_________________
ImageImage
Path to Ascendancy (1CCs) | Götzendämmerung (YT)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2014
Posts: 1835
Location: Mars Colony, 2309
I'm definitely considering voting this year. I'm still probably borderline qualifying at best, but I do feel like I've experienced enough games at this point to be able to choose at least a short list of faves.

I do have a question, though: What is the maximum percentage you're allowed to give to one game? I feel like at one point I saw this stipulated, probably in one of the old polls, but I feel like it wasn't specifically stipulated in any of the last few years' threads.

Regarding younger people not caring for forums any more: I haven't actually tried doing discord (and don't have an account), but I was recently invited to a group for shmup strategy discussion, and I'm just a little dubious about how well it would work, because, here's the thing: I'm not really playing any currently popular scoring games right now, and the only game that I'm knowledgeable enough in to actually give people scoring advice is Mars Matrix, which barely anyone is playing, so what are the odds that I'll actually be online at the same time as somebody who I can actually have a reasonable discussion with? The nice thing about forums is that they're persistent, so maybe I'm never logged in at the same time as someone who needs Mars Matrix advice, but I can still have a conversation with them, and while nobody currently cares about Triggerheart Exelica, I can at least read old posts where people are discussing strategy for it (though to be fair there really aren't a lot of those for Triggerheart, but when I was learning Mars Matrix, there were a lot of existing discussions from like 10 years ago that I could read through to get some ideas.)
_________________
YouTube | Restart Syndrome | 1cclist | Go Play Mars Matrix
Solunas wrote:
How to Takumi your scoring system
1) Create Scoring System
2) Make it a multiplier for your actual score


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:14 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 1293
Location: England
I'll be voting even though I haven't played much. There'll even be a new entry for the first time in 3 years: Bullet Hell Monday.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2207
Location: Brooklyn NY
I'll be voting again. Pretty sure my list will change at least a little.
_________________
"Adopt the pace of nature: her secret is patience."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 3184
Location: Ringing the bells of fortune
Anyone want to remind me what shmups came out in 2017?

LordHypnos wrote:
I do have a question, though: What is the maximum percentage you're allowed to give to one game? I feel like at one point I saw this stipulated, probably in one of the old polls, but I feel like it wasn't specifically stipulated in any of the last few years' threads.

I think it was 20%.
_________________
Image
NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
1CCs | Twitch | YouTube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Posts: 834
Location: France
I'll vote as well, but I don't think there was any game that caught my attention enough to drastically alter my previous ranking. Macross 2 is pretty good though and could fill that role, but I feel it is still a bit too fresh for me to decide whether it is worth a spot in my ranking. I'll need to play it even more to crystallize my opinion on it.
Shepardus wrote:
Anyone want to remind me what shmups came out in 2017?
From what I gathered, there's Raiden V's Director Cut, Aka to Blue, Pawarumi, Super Hydorah, Danmaku Unlimited 3, Graze Counter, Shikhondo Soul Eater, Neko Navy, Tenta Shooter, Jet Buster, Ghost Blade HD.
I must have missed a few others obviously.
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.

Remote Weapon GunFencer - My shmup project


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:11 pm 



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Shepardus wrote:
Anyone want to remind me what shmups came out in 2017?
M.Knight wrote:
From what I gathered, there's Raiden V's Director Cut, Aka to Blue, Pawarumi, Super Hydorah, Danmaku Unlimited 3, Graze Counter, Shikhondo Soul Eater, Neko Navy, Tenta Shooter, Jet Buster, Ghost Blade HD.
I must have missed a few others obviously.


I would add Momoiro Underground (the hori by the Mecha Ritz dudes). Doesn't seem to be that popular in the west, but still a noteworthy 2017 release, imho.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:55 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2016
Posts: 53
Location: Colorado, USA
Oh man! I'm so excited for this since last year I was only able to do my top 15 due to lack of experience playing more game in the genre, but this year I am looking forward not only to seeing what others are voting for, but also to debut what I feel is a solid top 25. I'm going to work on playing a few more shmups before the contest ends to see if I'd rank them, but even if I don't end up doing that, I'm very proud of my list as is. :D


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 3184
Location: Ringing the bells of fortune
extend wrote:
I would add Momoiro Underground (the hori by the Mecha Ritz dudes). Doesn't seem to be that popular in the west, but still a noteworthy 2017 release, imho.

Ah, I could have sworn that was a 2016 release but I'm probably mistaken. I'd sure like to play that if it were available through digital distribution. (If it is and I just haven't realized, please let me know ASAP.)

LordHypnos wrote:
Regarding younger people not caring for forums any more: I haven't actually tried doing discord (and don't have an account), but I was recently invited to a group for shmup strategy discussion, and I'm just a little dubious about how well it would work, because, here's the thing: I'm not really playing any currently popular scoring games right now, and the only game that I'm knowledgeable enough in to actually give people scoring advice is Mars Matrix, which barely anyone is playing, so what are the odds that I'll actually be online at the same time as somebody who I can actually have a reasonable discussion with? The nice thing about forums is that they're persistent, so maybe I'm never logged in at the same time as someone who needs Mars Matrix advice, but I can still have a conversation with them, and while nobody currently cares about Triggerheart Exelica, I can at least read old posts where people are discussing strategy for it (though to be fair there really aren't a lot of those for Triggerheart, but when I was learning Mars Matrix, there were a lot of existing discussions from like 10 years ago that I could read through to get some ideas.)

I feel similarly - people are divided among games enough that unless you're playing one of the more popular games there's not going to be much overlap and not much to say other than "yeah I'm playing this game and you should too" or general off-topic stuff that I frankly have no interest in chatting about (I rarely ever check the Off-Topic subforum here and when I do it's in game-related threads). Besides, many of the games I like the most are simple and self-explanatory, so there isn't much "strategy" to discuss.

One thing about shmups is that even though there's some competition through scoring, it's asynchronous in nature, with people not facing each other directly but rather playing their games at their own pace and comparing their results whenever. I can "compete" with people who played the game 20 years ago if I know their scores. I think the forum system reflects this asynchronous nature better than a chat system, which may not have good archiving and retrieval capabilities, and also doesn't naturally split activity into topic-based threads, which I think is important when you've got so many different games included under the same banner. This contrasts with, say, a community for a specific game with an active multiplayer community, where synchronous chat has clear benefits for finding people to play with and organizing games.
_________________
Image
NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
1CCs | Twitch | YouTube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:36 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 3194
Location: Chicago, IL
For some reason it seems as if every year I have to scramble and recalibrate to see how I qualify for voting. Funnily enough I get more stringent on what I count as "knowing the game" the more I play! That doesn't stop me from doing stupid things like voting for RayCrisis though. :wink:

This year: remember your Saturn shootemups! So many of them are lonely in vote tallies! I'm talking about Guardian Force, of course!
_________________
Image
Devil Engine ~ Sound Design || EC2151 ~ My FM music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:37 am 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2015
Posts: 288
Location: The Edge Of The Ape Oven
chum wrote:
to me it seems like the forum is dying. a lot of the members (players) still exist but don't use forums anymore and I think newer(younger) folks across most interests are getting less and less interested in forums.


It's a shmups forum, I don't know what you expect. As far as it stands, I not only believe that a forum is a good way for us to communicate, but that it is the best option available. The others in the thread have already hit the nail on the head about storing information, long term communication, asynchronous competition, etc. There is simply no reason to abandon the farm. This forum has never been massively popular, never will be, and most of us aren't really fazed by it. New blood comes slowly but surely, and as long as there's one other person here besides me I'll keep returning.

chum wrote:
Expect worse turnouts every year maybe to the degree that it's not worth the effort to run anymore.


Some data from the last 13 recorded years:
  • Last years turnout = 72
  • Highest turnout = 106
  • Average turnout = 83.7
  • Lowest turnout = 39

Why you see 100 voters as acceptable but 70 voters as being the sign of this being "not worth the effort to run anymore" is completely arbitrary. If there were only 20 voters last year then your statement would carry more weight. Your point may have a bit of validity to it, but you're being kind of melodramatic. Image
_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:45 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
exA-Arcadia will make shmups great again
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 1293
Location: England
I've done my bit, though I probably wouldn't have if this thread hadn't been bumped to remind me. Voting thread could do with being stickied.

My list has been rejigged quite a bit, with one new entry (Bullet Hell Monday). Rabio Lepus was the unfortunate game that missed the cut this time. Salamander 2 was probably the biggest riser, was in the bottom 10 and now sits in 18th. Only the top 6 on my list was really untouchable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:39 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 3184
Location: Ringing the bells of fortune
Xyga wrote:
exA-Arcadia will make shmups great again

I think you mean "releasing shmups for platforms people actually have access to"
_________________
Image
NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
1CCs | Twitch | YouTube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 1205
Shepardus wrote:
I think you mean "releasing shmups for platforms people actually have access to"


:idea: It looks like "releasing shmups for platform that only relatively few people in some countries will have access to" will have more impact than "releasing shmups for platforms people actually have access to" due to reasons. It sounds more logical than illogical. Arcade centres are "core" scene. PC/Consoles are "consequences". It was already proved that making stgs for pc/consoles don't push anything. So it has to be started from the "head". So to improve situation with shmups on pc/consoles, you need to improve it on arcades first.

:| or i gone mad and ignorant, i know nothing, after all

just some thoughts

*one of reasons is how pc/console is the place where "in grand scheme of things" genre is ignored and under radar, while in arcades... remains one of dishes on a table pretty much.
_________________
Kill the Past / Suda 51 fansite and more | Favorite artwork selection from manuals | My music


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:57 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
@Shepardus: Of course. The logic I think of is that if we want more than small only doujin and indie shmups production the genre needs to go back to the arcades and that's how we'll also get ports on accessible hardware like consoles and pc/steam in the future.
This is what I meant when I wrote somewhere that we need new games; games coming from the more heavy industry/commercial world again. But of course we'll have to be patient, whether a decent revival of the shmups market will happen apparently depends a lot on the success of EXA, timing, and people's will/motivation/means.
It might not happen if this drags on sluggishly over many years with too few and/or not good-enough titles.
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:36 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 3184
Location: Ringing the bells of fortune
qmish wrote:
Arcade centres are "core" scene. PC/Consoles are "consequences". It was already proved that making stgs for pc/consoles don't push anything. So it has to be started from the "head". So to improve situation with shmups on pc/consoles, you need to improve it on arcades first.

A decent number of shmups (admittedly not a lot) have done quite well for themselves on Steam (see: Jamestown, Astebreed, Crimzon Clover), to say nothing of "shmup-inspired" games that aren't quite shmups or are borderline examples of the genre. Every shmup announced for the Exa Arcadia platform so far, with the exception of Strania, originated on PC or smartphone. Sure, that's not totally fair because it's going to take some time before any original productions can possibly surface for a new platform, but given what we have so far I don't see how you can write off PC and consoles as mere "consequences" or assert that shmups don't move any copies on those platforms.
qmish wrote:
*one of reasons is how pc/console is the place where "in grand scheme of things" genre is ignored and under radar, while in arcades... remains one of dishes on a table pretty much.

Yes, shmups have a more significant presence in arcades than in the gaming market as a whole, but that's a big(ger) fish in a little pond.

Xyga wrote:
@Shepardus: Of course. The logic I think of is that if we want more than small only doujin and indie shmups production the genre needs to go back to the arcades and that's how we'll also get ports on accessible hardware like consoles and pc/steam in the future.
This is what I meant when I wrote somewhere that we need new games; games coming from the more heavy industry/commercial world again. But of course we'll have to be patient, whether a decent revival of the shmups market will happen apparently depends a lot on the success of EXA, timing, and people's will/motivation/means.
It might not happen if this drags on sluggishly over many years with too few and/or not good-enough titles.

I agree that I would like to see some new games from the "heavy industry/commercial world" (not that doujin output is unsatisfactory). I just personally don't want to see shmups and arcades tie their fates too closely together. I got into the genre through indie and doujin games and I have little interest in arcades (have never played a shmup at a bona fide arcade, hardly play any non-shmup arcade games, don't own an arcade stick or related hardware, etc.), so when I see games announced for arcades it's little more to me than a marketing ploy for collectors with the possibility of a future port. Shmups may be a natural fit for the arcade environment and there's a significant overlap between shmup and arcade enthusiasts (especially on this forum), but in my mind they're two distinct things and typecasting shmups as an "arcade" thing only limits their appeal and potential.

Of course Exa Arcadia's already said there will be more than just shmups on their platform, and who knows what other shmups are being developed for other platforms, so perhaps my concerns are unfounded; I hope they are. If Exa Arcadia does manage to spur interest in the genre from creators then I can accept some of the benefits being limited to arcades that I will never see.
_________________
Image
NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
1CCs | Twitch | YouTube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6242
Location: Craig's
Shepardus wrote:
I agree that I would like to see some new games from the "heavy industry/commercial world" (not that doujin output is unsatisfactory). I just personally don't want to see shmups and arcades tie their fates too closely together. I got into the genre through indie and doujin games and I have little interest in arcades (have never played a shmup at a bona fide arcade, hardly play any non-shmup arcade games, don't own an arcade stick or related hardware, etc.), so when I see games announced for arcades it's little more to me than a marketing ploy for collectors with the possibility of a future port. Shmups may be a natural fit for the arcade environment and there's a significant overlap between shmup and arcade enthusiasts (especially on this forum), but in my mind they're two distinct things and typecasting shmups as an "arcade" thing only limits their appeal and potential.

Well I didn't expect that, I know you a tiny bit from your posts but I didn't think you had that vision of things.
You are probably younger (don't take it the wrong way) and part of the demographics who got into the genre in a different way than many old and older farts like me indeed, as you say for you it was doujin/indie/pc, while I grew up together with arcades and consoles with the many 'elementary' genres developing and evolving (and dying) on these first, anything computer came later even much later if we think ibm pc.

I don't have much choice but tell you it's wrong to see the genre this way, as shmups's DNA has always been first and remained for the most part a thing born from the arcades, the fundamentals in gameplay and presentation still largely dominate the genre (well you'd be quickly borderline or off-topic as a developer if you'd ignore those completely anyway)
Almost everything produced for the consoles and pc, whether ports or originals spawned from it, it was still a masive genre in its heydays and no way at all any of it especially in the arcades, was either gimmicky marketing, or for collectors whom you could probably have counted on one hand at the time in the west even up to the early 2000's.
And even so in the early 2000's and that includes the time when this community (and the one before) and the other similar-ones but french-speaking for me or others in other countries, for the people who were there at the time, buying pcb's and games in general was primarily a way to just play the games that came out recently or not too long ago. And cabs were significantly cheaper too so it wasn the luxury it is today.
High quality stuff was still made and exploited commercially (arcades+consoles) by companies that had the capital, platforms personnel and networks with actual money (money = some levels of production quality that independent and amateur mostly can't produce) and not just Cave of course.
Yet even doujin production was more active at the time, because even without the same means the whole market was resonating together anyway, the more capitalist/mainstream with the arcades and consoles, and one needing the other for the genre's popularity and dynamic.

The shift happened later when the retrogaming boom entered in its later incontrollable phase accelerating from around the financial crisis of 2008 that brought it to another level of absurdity where video games of any kind began to be seen as objects of financial speculation and personal paranoia (also lots of newcomers without the same interest as the already installed demographics).
The last major maker of shmups Cave dropping was one of the final major blows, I think that now with the sharks being more than ever after their pcbs too (which came a bit later than other arcades genres and names surprisingly) things are pretty much over for the genre and while yes, we could have been thinking then that pc/doujin would have been able to pick up the torch, I don't agree at all that this will ever be the case.
Remember the 'transition' kinda meetup with the remaining pros in the business? I didn't really believe in it. Honestly PC with a model a la steam/store is not a platform fit for developing costly quality games and cash substential money to reinvest, improve products and grow. It's too short term.
People like me who've seen new shmups over almost three decades have different expectations, yes for me staying exclusively doujin/indie the genre has obviously no bright future, we need more hevyweight productions.

The doujin scene would actually benefit from a return of a genuine mainstream industry production and , because it takes its inspiration from there, it mostly always had, and also simply could exist because of it. I agree with qmish, arcades while not everything are the 'head' of the genre's body.
I've seen enough indie games taking nothing from the roots of the genre beyond style, just surface things, while being quite away from offering a similar experience.
I'm definitely not against innovation and change but to me the real roots of the genre are clear in their form and feel.

So again sorry but honestly I think your disregard for the very arcades nature of shmups is plain wrong, as I've always known them it seems obvious to me that shmups require a living arcades ecosytem to flourish and be more than just a niche and rather fragile indie and amateur genre (I think the latter taking the jump to arcades is sane, positive, even if quite adventurous)
Just redundantly stating what I've already said but that's to make it clear.

If you feel some sort of contempt for what you have seen in maybe only these past few years I kinda understand you, but I think you wouldn't feel that if you had witnessed the decades of the genre's history before and not just from one side, and in particular before the end years of consecutive blows that made everything rather bleak/morbid.

Shepardus wrote:
Of course Exa Arcadia's already said there will be more than just shmups on their platform, and who knows what other shmups are being developed for other platforms, so perhaps my concerns are unfounded; I hope they are. If Exa Arcadia does manage to spur interest in the genre from creators then I can accept some of the benefits being limited to arcades that I will never see.

Yes I hope they are too. Even if I think the model's much more fit and serious for the genre I also can't ignore that it's practically dead like arcades are.
EXA are practically trying to revive a dead mammoth, or rebuild a collapsed ancient market castle, whatever it won't be easy.

As for not being able to play games that remain arcades exclusivities...well that's how things were in the past you know, also why we were dreaming of those.
The difference is that we could actually go to the arcades and insert a few coins...but also that the games were for a long time unquestionably higher-tech and much more impressive than anything we could own at home. Today that's hardly realistic even if EXA is powerful.

------

TL;DR shmups and arcades share massive DNA, they are indissociable, or at least can't be separated too much or away too long from each-other.
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:29 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 238
This will be my first participation in a voting thread in this forum. I consider the task of ranking games something very difficult, even more considering shmups which is my favorite video game genre along with platform and racing and this difficulty allied with the fear of committing injustices led me to avoid participation in previous editions, but I decided to face the task this year, trying to do my best according to my personal criteria. It's painful, however, that many shmups (which I love) ended up being left out of my list, including the list of honorable mentions, but I decided to go ahead anyway. That's it!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 3184
Location: Ringing the bells of fortune
Just threw in my vote. Still not sure about the ordering and weights, but I don't think I'll be changing the set from this.

Most of the games are carried over from last year's list, albeit in a different order, but Armed Police Batrider, Dangun Feveron, Batsugun Special, and Battle Bakraid are replaced with TwinBee Yahho, Detana TwinBee, Out Zone, and Gradius III (Arcade).

I really wanted to fit GR3 Ex in the list somewhere because I really think it deserves more love, but honestly there are better games that didn't make the top 15 cut and I didn't want to stretch the list to 25. Now if there were a vote for the "most underappreciated" games...

Also, go vote. There's less than two weeks left and the voting thread hasn't even reached the second page!
_________________
Image
NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
1CCs | Twitch | YouTube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:06 am 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2014
Posts: 1835
Location: Mars Colony, 2309
First time voting. Did a short list. I will say that the top 5 or so were a lot easier to choose than the bottom couple. It's interesting to me that the majority of these games came out between 1998 and 2001, and almost all of them between 1998 and 2007. I think that that late '90s early '00s era was kind of a golden age, as least for my taste.
_________________
YouTube | Restart Syndrome | 1cclist | Go Play Mars Matrix
Solunas wrote:
How to Takumi your scoring system
1) Create Scoring System
2) Make it a multiplier for your actual score


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 3194
Location: Chicago, IL
There's no doubt that the late 90s really saw a meaningful attempt at revival/renaissance in the genre - after everyone making Raiden clones in the early 90s, I guess the desire was there to break the mold. :wink:

Shepardus wrote:
Also, go vote. There's less than two weeks left and the voting thread hasn't even reached the second page!

This!!! I don't know if everyone's busy or just exhausted from cold winter weather or something, but there's no excuse for not carefully curating your list of shmup faves! I'll be finalizing my list over the next day or so.
_________________
Image
Devil Engine ~ Sound Design || EC2151 ~ My FM music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 7372
Location: San Jose, California, USA
My list didn't change too much, but I've got some rather notable shifts:

Battle Garegga down 2 points: After putting a rather significant grind-to-1CC effort on Garegga, I'm finding a lot of it has become tedious and annoying, souring my preference on it. I would have dropped it more if it wasn't so actually good in a way that makes it one of a kind.

Gunnail up 2 points: On the converse of Garegga, I have extremely little to gripe about in Gunnail (beyond the alarm volume patch). I've been grinding for scoring lately and I am never sick of playing Gunnail. The music instantly hooks me in, and the insane amount of style and theme is beyond Garegga for me even. It's certainly not a perfect game, but it has so much working for it that I had to bump it up some more.

Macross II newly added: After putting serious time into this for my STGT, I realize this game is extremely high quality. I'm not quite ready to put it up above the rest of the games, but I feel I could be convinced with some more time spent in all of them.

Daioh newly added: I'm not sure how this had never been on my list until now, I've always been a huge fan of Daioh. Everything about it is high quality, though I still feel I've not put enough time into this.

Ibara replaced by Pink Sweets: Realized Ibara actually probably would have been shoved off the list normally, and remembered how much I am enjoying Pink Sweets now that I can play it regularly again. It's an awful pile of shit hell-game, but I love it anyways.
_________________
Image
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:45 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2016
Posts: 53
Location: Colorado, USA
I'm genuinely shocked that me and like two other people have Soukyugurentai in their list. Is this game just not considered good within the shooter community or is it that most people just haven't played/heard of it? It's one of the best shooters i've ever played.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:49 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2016
Posts: 53
Location: Colorado, USA
I've been playing and replaying the hell out of games in my list and games I felt I hadn't played enough and have been going back and revising my list accordingly. Batrider and Ketsui slipped several spots respectively, and Under Defeat and Muchi Muchi Pork made the list when they previously were not on it. I plan on going full throttle with doing this until the voting closes.

I'm really enjoying seeing everyone else's list. Seeing certain titles appear in multiple lists has always been an inspiration to try different titles out and also give specific titles another chance if my first impressions weren't that great.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:13 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 1205
bikingjahuty wrote:
I'm genuinely shocked that me and like two other people have Soukyugurentai in their list. Is this game just not considered good within the shooter community or is it that most people just haven't played/heard of it? It's one of the best shooters i've ever played.


Maybe they love it, but there are 25 games they love more?
_________________
Kill the Past / Suda 51 fansite and more | Favorite artwork selection from manuals | My music


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:55 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2014
Posts: 1835
Location: Mars Colony, 2309
I haven't played Soukyugurentai. Been meaning to check it out. Without knowing much about it, it does seem to be a bit of an underplayed game, so that's probably at least part.
_________________
YouTube | Restart Syndrome | 1cclist | Go Play Mars Matrix
Solunas wrote:
How to Takumi your scoring system
1) Create Scoring System
2) Make it a multiplier for your actual score


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], zakk and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group