Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BrianC]

Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti is a splatterhouse spin-off that seems to be fairly decent, but i've not played yet due to being burned by other poor titles by the developer (which bears mentioning is not namco). everyone here is likely already aware of it, but i figured i'd bear distinguishing it from the original, which BIL already mentioned.

You mean Now Production? I found they did some solid games (they did Rolling Thunder 3 and the Splatterhouse sequels), but also made a few games that have me scratching my head like their Ms. Pac-Man port (various systems, including NES).

[BIL]

Wanpaku is quite good - I'd go so far as to call it very good, within its niche. Right off the bat you'll notice the walk cycle is a bit loose: Chibi-Rick tends to totter along a few frames after the pad is released. It's a totally harmless quirk in context, though. Very sensibly designed game... rather than imitating SH1's deadly precision, it's a fast-moving, chunky-sprited, EZ-hitboxed run-and-slasher with mild platforming elements. Everything explodes to bits with one chop or blast, and there's an endearingly arcadey swagger to its rapid rotation of new scenes and setpieces. st1's lengthy Thriller dance routine will perturb for all the wrong reasons, but it's worth indulging - the game takes off like a rocket afterward. More of a style favourite, but the chassis is sound.

You mean Now Production? I found they did some solid games (they did Rolling Thunder 3 and the Splatterhouse sequels), but also made a few games that have me scratching my head like their Ms. Pac-Man port (various systems, including NES).

Interesting, I didn't know the same dev handled all three of Splatterhouse's console-original sequels. I'd be tempted to connect Splatterhouse Part 3's noticeably loose (though, again, quite harmless) walk cycle to Wanpaku, but that's pure conjecture. Pretty nice handling of the series' transition to console.

[Sumez]

I think Wanpaku is absolutely one of the best Famicom exclusives. Well, one of the few that are actually genuinely worth getting, to be honest.

[BIL]

In service of the sidescrolling brawler discussion, and since the game requires a little compassion to shine (typical DECO), imma crosspost+compile my recent CRUDE BUSTER posts from stryc9's venerable Mega Drive Thread (The OFFICIAL MD THREAD of the Ninja Gaiden thread ). BUSTIN MAKE ME FEEL GOOD and chances are it'll make you feel good, too! Protip: hit DOG with PIPE - it's what they're for!

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Part 1 THE BUSTENING

Addendum to my previous post: Crude Buster MD is rad. ¦3 Been a few years and I try to keep my recollections serviceable, so I ended up playing it and Midnight Resistance all evening. Life's good! Technically I'd actually put it between MR and the zenith of Chelnov (naturally enough, with their sequential 1990-1992 release years). Definitely irons out that slight chop; I'd not recalled it handling quite so smoothly.

Mechanically, it's an odd hybrid of precision strikes and crowd-flooring catharsis. Most attacks are good for one (1) target per swing - on top of this, enemies do contact damage, and enjoy considerable invulnerability after every hit taken. Not an inviting proposal, with the masses of onscreen foes! Balancing this, your jumpkick is an unstoppable force; doesn't do much damage, but will flatten the mob and buy you time to bust out the game's ultimate weapon... the outstretched grasping hand of TAKE. On the [A] button by default, enemies as well as anything not nailed down (and some stuff that is) can be wrenched overhead and hurled and/or swung to murderous effect, sending the hordes sprawling. Domination entails careful maneuvering, a spot of crowd herding, and relentless boulder-chucking overkill. Carve a path through the mob to your weapon of choice, then smash 'em to gristle with it.

NEW YORK CITY IS A REAL COOL TOWN

Spoiler

Not a straightforward brawler, but solidly executed in its eccentricity. Recommended for technical violence aficionados who enjoy a little idiosyncrasy. Sidescrolling brawlers are rare to begin with, but even then it's a real one-off, aided by cheerfully goony style.

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Part 2 BUSTIN ALL OVER THE WORLD

Whole lotta Crude Bustin' tonight! Generally a most positive experience! As expected, but as I say it'd been a few years and at the time I was balls-deep in MD collector hell, so I kinda hopped along to the next thing after making sure it wasn't actually a reskinned Cheetahmen.

I highly recommend altering the controls to Attack/Jump/Grab (I do enjoy the control reconfig options in these DECO ports). The default Grab/Attack/Jump had me pianoing the pad. You absolutely want jump in the middle with both attacks either side. Yep, both attacks - grabbing is no mere gimmick. A straight bodyslam is your most powerful unequipped move, and it's frequently a superior option to striking. The BDSM spiderman guys imported from Shinobi, for example, bust out an unstoppable slidekick when they land nearby. Only good strike option is the weak jumpkick, which will merely buffet them back and prolong their annoying hops. Solution = don't let them land to begin with! Grab the fucker out of the air and slam 'em. They probably like it! Gimp suit freaks!

Does whatever a HAADO GAY spider can

Spoiler

Try grabbing Roly Poly man straight out of his annoying rolling attack - much faster and cooler than waiting for him to show his ugly fuckin mug then striking. Very similar dudes in Capcom's Tatakai no Banka, and Mazin Saga on MD, both of which share CB's apocalyptic setting... there's Ninja Gaiden II (NES)'s rollies, too. I wonder what the common inspiration was, if any? Looks straight outta 1970s Tokusatsu. Or maybe some mythology ala Daimakaimura's Kamaitachis? Would make a neat Halloween costume. Probably culturally appropriative too! LOLOL

ROLY POLY-ASS MUHFUCKA

Spoiler

Note also that hitting enemies with their thrown comrades doesn't do much damage. Rather than hitting these chumps with their ride, and having to follow up with another attack, just kill the pilot outright, then impale his passengers with that handy lightpole. Much cooler, and efficient! Cool and efficient violence is what I go for!

TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL Vol.II

Spoiler

At the same time, while busting out grabs at every opportunity, you've gotta have the jumpkick ready to go at a split-second's notice. The game's lack of iframes is cruel, and enemies only need an instant to swamp you. Kicking the shit out of them won't do much damage, but it'll keep them at safe distance while you set up the next slam.

I'm really happy with this game overall, but I do think the handling is a bit strict for a brawler. I'd have tweaked the grab range to be a little more generous - snatching dwarves n' dogs is nervy, and brutally punishing of failure. I'd also ditch the high/low distinction on thrown weapons - shorty type enemies are one thing, but having to crouch to hit st2's hulking bruisers with a big fuckin rock feels petty. Performing the very useful "grab stuff off ledges overhead" move under pressure also takes a bit more muscle memory than is ideal. To avoid an unwanted pull-up (itself a vitally important move - don't fight st2's PRAYING MANTIS DUDE head-on!), you have to hold [UP], hit then quickly release [JUMP], then finally [GRAB] to snatch the item, ready to bash the enemies who've no doubt closed in. Screw up, and you're gonna be in quite the pickle!

MUSCLE GLIP

Spoiler

It's easy with a little practice - the controls are utterly airtight - but again, just a tad more unforgiving than I like in this sort of big, brash action game. I like my brawlers with a little margin for input error ala the buttery-smooth Bare Knuckle II.

OTOH, I'd rather have accurate but slightly finicky controls than forgiving, flawed ones (see the otherwise phenomenal Double Dragon II FC's slight touch of Holy Diver Syndrome Type B)

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Now! Go forth and bust! BUST TIL YOU RETURN TO DUST

[FinalBaton]

Crude Buster looks really fun.

Just watching gameplay, the best word I can come up with to summarize the feel is "rad"

The hero pulling off kicks while lifting a car over his head really cracked me up so fucking over the top, lol. ÜBER-MASCHIZMO incoming. Wall-busting included. Love the title too. Imma bust your HEAD, imma bust that WALL, imma bust EVERYTHANG !!! Just GET THE HELL OUT OF MY WAY or GET CRUSHED

Also so much stuff to rip out and throw. It really is throw-heaven. Many br00tal deaths await those pansies who try to stop you. There seems to be plenty of opportunities for COMPLETE OBLITERATION AND HUMILIATION too, as demonstrated in your gifs. And this is an important aspect of beat 'em ups. Not just being able to kill villains, but to be able to destro enemies that never saw it coming and never stood a fucking chance in the first place and go "UGHHHHH, TAKE THAT YOU FUCKFACE", and then be able to say "lol, that poor guy got it pretty bad". Yep, it's all about HUMILIATION!

I need to pick it up on Genesis, as I don't have a DECO cart for that console yet. Is the Genny version any different from MD?

[BIL]

The hero pulling off kicks while lifting a car over his head really cracked me up so fucking over the top, lol.

Yes, I'm glad someone noticed that. It's like "shoo, bitch! I ain't wasting a whole car on your ass!"

Hm, no idea about regional differences... pretty much all my experience is with the JP cart. TCRF lacks a page (though their info can sometimes be very inaccurate/incomplete, anyway). SegaRetro's page looks promising, just some minor palette alterations it seems.

[mycophobia]

In my Thanksgiving Drunkenness I decided to do my inexplicably yearly 1CC of Wanpaku Kokkun no Gourmet World (Panic Restaurant) which I finished a few minutes ago. I don't know what it is I love about this game so much. It's super fuckin easy, they throw tons of lives at you and none of the platforming challenges presented to you are particularly...challenging. But the graphics are so cute and the music is so happy and fun and it's a just a joy to blow through. It was one of the first roms I found in those magical early 2000's of the internet that really made an impression on me.

[Vanguard]

TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL Vol.II

Spoiler

These are hilarious, especially the way he just snatches the hovercar out of the air!

[Stevens]

In my Thanksgiving Drunkenness I decided to do my inexplicably yearly 1CC of Wanpaku Kokkun no Gourmet World (Panic Restaurant) which I finished a few minutes ago. I don't know what it is I love about this game so much. It's super fuckin easy, they throw tons of lives at you and none of the platforming challenges presented to you are particularly...challenging. But the graphics are so cute and the music is so happy and fun and it's a just a joy to blow through. It was one of the first roms I found in those magical early 2000's of the internet that really made an impression on me.

This reminded me of a pair of my first 1 CC's as a kid - Black Belt/Hokuto No Ken and Kung Fu Kid on the SMS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN4IqiWD1Q

Great 1 V 1 boss fights with large sprites that predated Street Fighter by at least a year.

Kung Fu Kid is also worth playing, lots of fun to be had. It also (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) possibly the earliest game to include wall jumping as a mechanic.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kung+fu ... e&ie=UTF-8

This page has other SMS games listed as the progenitors, but KFK predates them all.

https://www.giantbomb.com/wall-jump/3015-5/

[__SKYe]

Played another run in BKIII, this time with Axel and got the 1CC, and lost 4 lives total this time around (finished with 6, but given that there are hidden extends, and the amount you can get varies depending on your score, lives lost is a more accurate way to gauge how well a run goes).



Overall, things went better: lost one life against Robo Mr. X, which isn't surprising since I reached him with nearly no life left, and lost another somewhere else I don't recall now. Lost 2 against the last boss this time around, but wasn't too bad either way.

Playing with Axel after being used to Blaze, sucks.
He's quite a bit slower, and trying to chase down enemies and especially bosses is more troublesome than it should. She is much nicer to play as.

Noticeably, managed to beat Jet without losing any lives this time around, whereas I previously lost about 2 lives against him, normally.

Also, can confirm that the Signal enemies are invincible during a slide (easily noticeable if you perform Axel's running special while they do it, as both of you will take no damage). Again, I find this rather uncool, as I think they should be able to be hit while performing it.

The baseball bat in this game, is perhaps the most satisfying weapon in the series (and beyond).

As a side note, although the soundtrack isn't nowhere as good as in the previous entries like everyone knows, the boss theme of the Yamato(s) is damn awesome. Certainly one of the best, in my opinion.

i have never fully grasped how you're actually supposed to fight jet. my BK2 sessions are far enough apart that i often forget very large portions of how to play it in-between, and have never gotten truly good at it.

He's actually rather simple, in my opinion.

Spoiler

He just has 3 moves: if he's far away enough, and you're in his lane, he'll quickly drop down to ground level and accelerate towards you, or if you're close enough or if you leave him alone long enough, he'll rise up slowly and perform a diving attack. If you get too close to him, he'll grab you, fly up the screen and slam you into the ground.

So basically, get a it of distance between yourselves, and move into his lane. He'll do the "drop down and sprint", and you can just jump kick him, move away a bit and repeat.
If he does the "slow rise and dive", move away from his lane and wait for him to dive. Afterwards, he'll be close to the ground for a while, so get close to him and pound him (normal combo or special works well) -- you can also grab him, but there's a risk that he'll grab you instead and slam you to the ground instead (it's a pretty damaging move).
During his recovery from this move, if he moves outside the playfield don't get too close to the edge (where he's at), because he'll usually just not appear until he's fully recovered, so give him a little space and strike when he appears (and is recovering).

He's pretty much the same in BK2 and BK3, the difference being the helpers he has: in BK2, a bunch of regular enemies appear, which are pretty easy (and you can throw towards him, or throw as he is lunging at you, since you'll be able to avoid damage), but in BK3 he has 2 helpers that are the same as him (so essentialy, you're facing 3 Jets at once), and they will reappear if you beat them, so it is somewhat harder to beat him here.
Doing a special (health draining one) after his dive move works a bit better here (if you let the special bar get full) since not only will you not lose life by using it, but you'll also do a fairly nice chunk of damage to him as well.

i belted out a 1cc on my last attempt, which i think was my first play in a year or so, but it was with just one life left and with the character i always tend to favor. BK2 is easily one of my favorite games, but despite its depth and complexity, i've never really applied myself in a meaningful way like i do with a lot of my other favs. perhaps this is because of its slightly exaggerated length and incredible presentation making it a bit hard for me to want to consider consecutive playthroughs? playing with my pal who is visiting is probably going to be revealing a lot, to me!

Yeah, all three of the BK games are pretty long, so I also never play more than 1 credit per day/play session, so you're not alone there.

i feel like some enemies that can harm you aren't necessarily "hostile." there's some that attack back only when attacked, and some that seem to just appear to be going about their business that might hurt you by indifference (those little floor/ceiling stretchy dudes before the clam in stage 3, for example. they always seemed like they didn't even acknowledge you being there).

Ah, slight misuse of the word. I wrote hostile but actually meant denizens that can harm you, not just the ones that will actively fight you. Like you say, the vast majority of them will simply do their own thing, regardless of whether they can harm you or not.

i would definitely say that most of the potential interactions that can be wrought out of the game's enemies were intended. take for example how complex the movement is on that little badger guy just before the stage 3 boss: as long as you keep up with him, he will keep walking ahead of you, and then turning back to make sure you're still following him if he hits the edge of the screen.

... amount of bad takes on this game that call it half-baked, incomplete, or missing the mark on its execution. i think it's fine to consider the game dull or boring (though i'd disagree), but to say it's not what it wanted to be or that the designers didn't have a vision that they accomplished is completely stupid.

Agreed, I don't believe that the design of the game (and its execution) was anything other than what the developers intended.
Players may not like it, or not think too much of it, but there's too much thought put into the game's aesthetics/enemies/interactions to say it wasn't well executed.

i'm happy with the speed & accuracy i go through that one (makyo densetsu) with. i don't think i've really seen this game discussed anywhere but in youtube videos by nostalgic tg16 nerds calling it the system's staple action game, and that kind of upsets me! it's actually quite good and has this memorably offbeat presentation to it. i often rubberneck youtube top X lists done by collector bozos for the combination "eugh god this is what popular opinion is?" and "maybe i'll actually hear about something new" factors. none of these people actually seem to have genuine enthusiasm for action and always just shove one or two in-between their precious RPG's and adventure titles they usually play once and are totally done with, so i'd long considered makyo densetsu something like the castle of illusion of the pc engine - that one game everyone talks up that's only merely decent-ish, but overexposed enough that it won't get challenged by the group-think consensus.

I'll probably watch it soon, just wanted to get a bit farther ahead before I do.
The game is good, no doubt, and in my opinion, does belong in the top tier of PCE's action platformers. I'm not familiar with what the popular opinions on this game (and it's sequel) are, but from what I played it is a very solid entry in the system's catalog, and better than the majority of the other PCE's sidescroller titles (or at least better executed).

The only think I dislike (so far, of course) is the Contra-style jump. Since this is a close quarters action game, I find myself having to constantly having to press back after a jump in to attack some enemy, so that I don't take a hit. I think the standard jump (where if you release the direction button, the character will stop moving forward during a jump, MegaMan-style).

I do like the mechanic of powering your basic attack by not attacking -- it's like MegaMan's charged shots, but without the hassle of having to keep the attack button pressed all the time. Definitely a novel approach (at the time, at least that I know of) that works pretty well.

[BIL]

TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL Vol.II

Spoiler

These are hilarious, especially the way he just snatches the hovercar out of the air!

One of the most gleefully brutal sidescrollers this side of Metal Slug - I was constantly pausing to screencap the enemies' various expressions while making those GIFs. The throw mechanic is both integral to the experience, and a running source of hilarity - no matter how monstrous the enemy or vehicle, chances are that yep, you can haul it overhead and slam it down like a sack of spuds!



Dunno how it never hit me until now, but with the post-apocalyptic setting, impossibly buff heroes and twisted fiends, it's almost like a Hokuto no Ken game where you're playing as a pair of wasteland goons. I like to think they're trying to go straight and make an honest living in the vigilante game.

In my Thanksgiving Drunkenness I decided to do my inexplicably yearly 1CC of Wanpaku Kokkun no Gourmet World (Panic Restaurant) which I finished a few minutes ago. I don't know what it is I love about this game so much. It's super fuckin easy, they throw tons of lives at you and none of the platforming challenges presented to you are particularly...challenging. But the graphics are so cute and the music is so happy and fun and it's a just a joy to blow through. It was one of the first roms I found in those magical early 2000's of the internet that really made an impression on me.

Technically not thanksgiving here in Britlandshire, but it is Saturday so I'm likewise relaxing with a couple beers and an old EZ favourite, FC Super Contra. Although it lacks the original's topography and immortal RNG spaghetti maze, the kinks in a run - where I'm compelled to stand around lamely sniping stuff before proceeding - are deceptively thorny. I'm not into speedrunning per se, but I do like seeing how long I can advance without breaking stride (especially in this series!), so it's been fun ironing out st1's roadblocks, st3's jungle and st8's ramps.

In the years since I picked it up I've come to love this port, after initially thinking of it as semi-completism. Lots of booming Maezawasplosions ringing out at any given moment. Except for during that truly crummy but mercifully brief pair of st4 autoscrollers! GB Contra completely schools this port with its much more exciting st5 elevator! Though admittedly, its first stage has one nearly as bad! I'm going to kill myself. D: (GB Contra rocks, don't let that early snoozer put you off)

Had another look at the loop, which I've never been certain actually increases the difficulty. I could almost swear there's an additional runner or two in the usual st1/st3 "conga lines," but if so, it's a minuscule bump. Enemies certainly don't take longer to die. Although on that front, it's not until Loop 7 of the first game that I really notice the enemies extra HP, and only at the last boss. So hmm.

EDIT: and AWW SHEEIT I forgot the very thing I wanted to post. I did notice one thing - the very first popup turret in st1 won't actually fire in loop 1, ever. In loop 2 it'll blow your fucken head off just like the rest, no matter your x/y position. So something seems to be afoot.

Loop 1 Turret is not that bothered TBH

Spoiler

Loop 2 Turret GON SMASH UR FACE

Spoiler

But yeah, I don't think Umechan Team were going all-out this time around. Recalls their also marvelously entertaining yet loop-tame FC Gradius II. I seem to remember looping to a ridiculous height one similarly lazy evening, with little payoff, so will probably treat this as a one-loop affair. A brief, brisk, rollicking good time when played for maximum rudeness.

Kung Fu Kid is also worth playing, lots of fun to be had. It also (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) possibly the earliest game to include wall jumping as a mechanic.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kung+fu ... e&ie=UTF-8

This page has other SMS games listed as the progenitors, but KFK predates them all.

https://www.giantbomb.com/wall-jump/3015-5/

Ah, another mechanic whose origins I like to ponder (doublejumping being the other biggie). Don't think I've played that one, but I'm woefully inexperienced with SMS/Mark III in general.

I do like the mechanic of powering your basic attack by not attacking -- it's like MegaMan's charged shots, but without the hassle of having to keep the attack button pressed all the time. Definitely a novel approach (at the time, at least that I know of) that works pretty well.

<3 passively-charging power meters. The later Lord of King / Astyanax (AC) and its very loose Famicom interpretation use them too - not coincidentally, they and Makyo Densetsu were all designed by the same guy, Tokuhiro Takemori. I wonder if Namco's Dragon Saber might've been inspired by those games... can't think of any earlier examples offhand, though I'm sure they exist. (R-Type tends to be the poster child of actively-charged shots, of course)

The PCE game localised as "The Legendary Axe II" was more subtly titled Ankoku Densetsu in Japan. I think Victor Interactive wanted some minor brand recognition, but it's definitely more loose relation than direct sequel. AFAIK Takemori didn't work on it, and naturally enough it ditches the charge meter (passive or otherwise). I really like it - nothing mind-blowing, just rugged simplicity done right (foot of post). Worth playing to st3 and the punishing footsie games with its heavy bruisers. It does have a pretty novel mechanic of its own, in the grenades (which both players and enemies can use). They fly in a leisurely arc, doing inescapable flash damage on touchdown. On offense you need to set 'em up right - no EZ escapes. On defense you've got to scramble to hack 'em out of the air before you get blown up. Minor but memorable detail that shakes things up nicely.

[BrianC]

As far as I know, Ankoku Densetsu was designed by Atlus.

[Stevens]

Ah, another mechanic whose origins I like to ponder (doublejumping being the other biggie). Don't think I've played that one, but I'm woefully inexperienced with SMS/Mark III in general.

A quick search seems to have Dragon Buster (1984) being the first game with double jump.

I still can't find anything refuting King Fu Kid as the first game with an intentional wall jump programmed in. Super Mario Bros. has it as a glitch. Be curious to know if this is accurate or not.

[Sumez]

As far as I can tell, Kung Fu Kid is clearly a few years later than Dragon Buster.

[Stevens]

As far as I can tell, Kung Fu Kid is clearly a few years later than Dragon Buster.

You are correct, but the difference is wall jump (rebounding off a wall) versus double jump (being able to jump twice whenever you want to).

That said BIL and anyone else - Kung Fu Kid is certainly worth your time should you seek it out.

It isn't terribly difficult, has rather tight controls, and only a few moves. You can kick, sweep, and jump kick. I think the sweep has a little more range but it has been a few years since I played it.

Jumping is interesting. You can control your character in the air at all times as well as the height of your jump. If you hold the jump button down your max jump height is ridiculous and you'll be in the air for several seconds. While in the air you can mash kick or hold it down. Certain enemies (bosses only I think) can be hit each time you press the kick button during a jump kick. As mentioned you have a wall jump too.

You also have access to cards you can throw. Stock they will fly through enemies and dissipate after about half screen, there are also zombie enemies they will slow down but can't kill (you can't kill them either). Powered up they triple in speed, go through all enemies, and are the only thing that can kill zombies outright. They are practically required to clear level five which is just zombies.

The levels are also interesting, especially for a game released in '87. Levels one, two, four, and seven are your regular scroll left to right fair. Levels three and five however are multilevel and mildly maze like. There are even some short cuts through them if you're good enough with the wall jump. Level six is a five room boss rush. The bosses are not recycled from earlier in the game and are exclusive to that level.

[__SKYe]

Played through BKIII once again, this time with Sammy, got the 1CC but with the bad ending (failed to beat the final boss in time).

At first I thought Sammy's speed would be a bit unwieldy (given the already somewhat speedy Blaze), but his speed is quite nice. He also has a decent running special and standard combo. But he loses points big time in the combo while grabbing an enemy, and especially when performing throws.

His grabbing combo is slower than I would like, though it is passable, but his backthrow (pressing backwards+attack while holding an enemy) throws the enemy forward instead. This is really annoying, since a good part of my playstyle relies on back throws for crowd control.
Besides the standard hassle of having to constantly remember that he throws enemies forward, this also makes some sections particularly annoying as well, like the elevator in stage 3. Since the hole is located on the right side of the screen (where you can, and should throw the enemies into) and enemies spawn from the left (or from above), you can no longer position yourself on the hole side to wait for enemies (to throw them into the pit) since you will throw them forward instead.

His back-grab attack (pressing the attack button while grabbing the enemy from behind) is also too damn slow, and you will end up being hit out of it several times throughout a run, simply because some mook will have enough time to walk towards and hit you. This is especially aggravating against the both Robo Mr. X and the final boss, since they both will hit you out of the grab (even if you're already attacking), and in the case of the final boss, the punish is a slam into the ground.

Lost 2 lives during the game, one in the elevator section, and another against Mr. X, but lost 3 against the final boss and even then didn't beat him in time.
I really have trouble hitting the guy with Sammy, and my inability to perform throws on him really messed things up, so I had to resort to basically spamming health draining specials, and that's how I lost the lives so quickly.

Was pretty disappointed with him, as although I didn't expect him to become a favourite, I really didn't expect him to be this bad (for my playstyle, of course).

Oh, something I forgot about Jet's behaviour: in BK3, at least, he has another attack where he'll drop down to ground level and use a flamethrower attack. Not a big deal either, since you shouldn't be in front of him (and that close) anyway, but is actually a nice opportunity to go behind him and hit him a few times.

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The PCE game localised as "The Legendary Axe II" was more subtly titled Ankoku Densetsu in Japan. I think Victor Interactive wanted some minor brand recognition, but it's definitely more loose relation than direct sequel. AFAIK Takemori didn't work on it, and naturally enough it ditches the charge meter (passive or otherwise). I really like it - nothing mind-blowing, just rugged simplicity done right (foot of post). Worth playing to st3 and the punishing footsie games with its heavy bruisers. It does have a pretty novel mechanic of its own, in the grenades (which both players and enemies can use). They fly in a leisurely arc, doing inescapable flash damage on touchdown. On offense you need to set 'em up right - no EZ escapes. On defense you've got to scramble to hack 'em out of the air before you get blown up. Minor but memorable detail that shakes things up nicely.

Yeah, perhaps the developers wanted to distance the sequel from the first game because they are pretty different (from what I remember at least). For the overseas release, the publishers probably thought the opposite, and wanted to keep the title of an already established game (and market it as a sequel), to boost sales.
Or maybe because you don't just wield an axe anymore.

The game's HUD and main character's pose (with the sword straight up) always remind me of the first Actraiser game somehow.

One of the most gleefully brutal sidescrollers this side of Metal Slug - I was constantly pausing to screencap the enemies' various expressions while making those GIFs. The throw mechanic is both integral to the experience, and a running source of hilarity - no matter how monstrous the enemy or vehicle, chances are that yep, you can haul it overhead and slam it down like a sack of spuds!

Haha, I played the game a bit, and it is damn awesome.
Besides the absolutely funny visuals (and especially that end of level pose, finishing it with a grin ), it has a pretty tight gameplay. I really enjoyed that the grab is on a dedicated button, and attacking is independent from grabbing (including when you are holding something or someone).
Also love that you can grab enemies, even during their attacks (especially cool against the rolly-polly enemy) if you have a decent timing. And the way the main character effortlessly grabs anything and anyone, regardless of material or size, is really damn funny.

I still have to play it some more, but it really seems like a solid entry from Data East.

EDIT:

Played some more Crude Buster, and managed to reach Stage 6 (using all 3 continues, of course) but lost to the very first tank there. I've been taking some modest damage so far, in not-so-difficult parts primarily due to being a unfamiliar with the controls (need to remember that standard punch only hits one enemy at a time, that you need to duck if you want to throw the small poles low, etc), but I'm getting there.

Having a good time so far, and even though the timing/precision required to pull off the moves (especially when grabbing things) is a bit strict, like you mentioned, is is a pretty fun game to play.

I like that every enemy behaves differently, even the pallete swaps of the standard mook (the yellow will simply run towards you, the blue will stop when close, and punch high and the red will stop and punch low), and that you can bait them into performing their attacks (by getting close, and quickly moving away), which is very useful against some tougher enemies and bosses.
Also liked how you can (and probably should) use the lane switching (going up or down the scenery) when fighting some of the bosses, as it gives you enough time for their invincibility to run out, and also enough time to grab them. Very useful against the 4th boss, for example. Another interesting thing is that, while going down is fast and useful to position yourself quick, going up is much more dangerous, as not only are you slow to do so but enemies seem to be faster going up as well (the flamethrower guys will immediately jump on top of you the moment you switch to the top lane).

Also was about to say this:

The BDSM spiderman guys imported from Shinobi, for example, bust out an unstoppable slidekick when they land nearby.

Yeah, their jump stance immediately reminded me of the ninjas in Revenge of Shinobi. Pretty annoying guys if you let them slide, and they tend to come in big numbers as well.

Also, how to you beat the horned/rhinoceros guy without taking damage? I tried pretty much all I could think off, but I can't avoid his charge attack. Perhaps rolling away from him as he's getting close, so that you can bait him to stop and to give you enough time to avoid damage? Forgot about that, will have to try it.

Also, what about the tanks? I can beat both of the ones in Stage 3~4 by throwing the sign and the rock at them, but can you actually beat them bare handed?
I've tried hitting and jump kicking them, but they always tend to run me over. Trying to lift them also seems to do nothing, as your character will just struggle and end up taking damage.

Anyway, pretty good game (I've been playing the MD port, by the way). Data East ddid deliver.

[BIL]

Thanks for the Kung Fu Kid writeup, Stevens! This looks cool... I see it's Makai Retsuden in JP, was wondering if I might've heard of it there but nope. Mark III sidescrolling is a longterm back-burnered interest of mine - I was disappointed by its well-liked Shinobi port, but Kenseiden is one of my favourites for manfully economic swordplay. I think I subconsciously avoid the platform since so much cool stuff was US/EU-only and I'm at least 50% shelf queen with a burning desire for glorious nippon. Onto the tryout list for sure.

I still have to play it some more, but it really seems like a solid entry from Data East.

It's my "A" game currently, opposite FC Super Contra (I've come to like playing my action games in pairs, typically a new project and an old favourite... keeps things varied without losing focus ). Saw stage 6 for the first time yesterday (not using credits for now - I like the suspense ;3 ). A few things that stand out in the later stages, and some thoughts on the game overall:

- there's a neat shift from large, weak swarms to smaller but individually deadlier gangs. It really changes the focus from battering back zako to methodically outmaneuvering dangerous foes. There's a really great bit VS three incinerators, where I need to maneuver through their cruel zoning to reach a nice girder on the opposite side and *WHAM* deck 'em all in one big shot.

- on that note, I've long had mixed feelings about the extensive enemy invulnerability, post-hit. For better or worse, it really forces you to weigh up the value of a quick, high-priority but weak jumpkick VS a riskier but much stronger slam. Sometimes, a smack will merely give a charging boss carte blanche to stomp you. Other times, like when you're swarmed by dogs, you'd better bust out the flurry or else be dragged down.

Overall I think it's a positive quirk - my one persistent gripe is, you don't get that sense of really cutting loose with a flurry of blows. Then again, this is a unique brawler where one big slam is the priority, so it mostly fits. I just wish I could really fuck up those yellow spandex bruisers, they need to be more afraid.

- I like how getting hit/bumped loses your current weapon; it's punishing, but with how badly said weapons will fuck up enemies, the pressure feels warranted and exciting.

- the earlier stages (1-4) really fly past once you're slamming and scenery-chucking with vengeance. I remember the game's pacing feeling a bit laborious in earlier plays, but that's definitely noobishness talking. If you're pecking away with jumpkicks, it can drag, but then you shouldn't be.

- later bosses might rub some the wrong way; they're hellishly punishing, yet susceptible to obscure, simple tricks. I kinda like the effect; the fourth's pounce is both aesthetically and mechanically nightmarish, to the point that even blatantly exploiting its fatal flaw -

Spoiler

let him chase you, whiffing his pounce; turn, grab, and slam him a good distance back, so his hitflash runs out before he can return; rinse-repeat

- has a nervous gratification. Not great boss design, but never dull either. (any time there's a higher platform, just lure 'em up - they're ripe for grab n' slamming... but don't count on always having ideal terrain!)

---

EDIT: much of what I wrote above echoes you - posted before seeing your own edit. Glad to have some company! On the MD port here too.

how to you beat the horned/rhinoceros guy without taking damage? I tried pretty much all I could think off, but I can't avoid his charge attack. Perhaps rolling away from him as he's getting close, so that you can bait him to stop and to give you enough time to avoid damage? Forgot about that, will have to try it.

Ah yes, that's exactly one of the obscure AI tricks I mean. What I do is slam him, then follow him and get in close; if done right, he'll recover with a long jump across the screen, which you need to follow. Grab him as he lands, then rinse and repeat. It's not entirely safe; if you're too near when triggering the long jump, he'll swipe at you instead, which will probably lead to a goring. I can get past him without losing any lives consistently, though. Definitely the first real impasse the game throws at you.

Also, what about the tanks? I can beat both of the ones in Stage 3~4 by throwing the sign and the rock at them, but can you actually beat them bare handed?
I've tried hitting and jump kicking them, but they always tend to run me over. Trying to lift them also seems to do nothing, as your character will just struggle and end up taking damage.

Crouch as they approach, and mash on grab. ;3 At first I was all "HELL NAW, THE LIMIT HAS BEEN REACHED" but nope! IN BUST WE TRUST

I seem to annihilate the st4 pair by chucking stuff from up top - was a bit drunk and dozy so can't quite recall if there's two in st6! I could swear there was just the one and I slammed him promptly. Perils of drink n' gaming.

By the way, did you see st5 boss / Literal Spider Man's instakill attack? The beer and tiredness definitely aided the effect, but yo - that is some scary shit!

[__SKYe]

- there's a neat shift from large, weak swarms to smaller but individually deadlier gangs. It really changes the focus from battering back zako to methodically outmaneuvering dangerous foes. There's a really great bit VS three incinerators, where I need to maneuver through their cruel zoning to reach a nice girder on the opposite side and *WHAM* deck 'em all in one big shot.

True, and as the stages go on (culminating at around stage 5) the throwable items also start to dwindle, so you're expected to get close and personal with these stronger enemies. Stage 5 is almost a collection of mini-bosses, interspersed with the ocasional zako group.

- on that note, I've long had mixed feelings about the extensive enemy invulnerability, post-hit. For better or worse, it really forces you to weigh up the value of a quick, high-priority but weak jumpkick VS a riskier but much stronger slam. Sometimes, a smack will merely give a charging boss carte blanche to stomp you. Other times, like when you're swarmed by dogs, you'd better bust out the flurry or else be dragged down.

Overall I think it's a positive quirk - my one persistent gripe is, you don't get that sense of really cutting loose with a flurry of blows. Then again, this is a unique brawler where one big slam is the priority, so it mostly fits. I just wish I could really fuck up those yellow spandex bruisers, they need to be more afraid. [img]http://i.imgur.com/htdbfo7.gif[/img

Agreed, jump kicks are pretty handy, and I tend to use them to gain some breathing room, and against those pesky dogs. But it also can become a thorn in your side because some of the stronger enemies won't get knocked down (so no breathing room) but they will get the full i-frames (ie. the flamethrower guys).
Something I've been wondering, do enemies get i-frames just from ramming you? I somehow got the impression that they did, but I might just have pressed the attack button in the mean time (it usually happens in busy spots), so I'm not sure.

- I like how getting hit/bumped loses your current weapon; it's punishing, but with how badly said weapons will fuck up enemies, the pressure feels warranted and exciting.

Yeah, weapons are really damn powerful here, and given the number of them you'll find lying around, shame on you for getting hit while holding one.

Ah yes, that's exactly one of the obscure AI tricks I mean. What I do is slam him, then follow him and get in close; if done right, he'll recover with a long jump across the screen, which you need to follow. Grab him as he lands, then rinse and repeat. It's not entirely safe; if you're too near when triggering the long jump, he'll swipe at you instead, which will probably lead to a goring. I can get past him without losing any lives consistently, though. Definitely the first real impasse the game throws at you.

Thanks, I was really wondering how I was supposed to go at it, since both bosses before it, altough dangerous against an inexperienced player, can be dispatched nicely without requiring taking damage to do so?
Interestingly, the first boss can be beaten in a similar way -- when you slam him, he'll do a jump towards you and you can go under him, wait for him to land and tnrow him again. His behaviour changes a bit when he drops the snake, though.

Crouch as they approach, and mash on grab. ;3 At first I was all "HELL NAW, THE LIMIT HAS BEEN REACHED" but nope! IN BUST WE TRUST

Thanks again, I'll do that. They re pretty much unbeatable otherwise (even though they take damage when you kick/punch them, I have never been able to even take one out that way, before running out of lives. And believe me, I've tried).
I should have guessed it is necessary to mash, since the game does hint that it is required, even as early as stage 1, against the dogs and the small mooks.

I seem to annihilate the st4 pair by chucking stuff from up top - was a bit drunk and dozy so can't quite recall if there's two in st6! I could swear there was just the one and I slammed him promptly. Perils of drink n' gaming.

I also beat the two tanks on stage 4 by throwing both the billboard and the rock that is on the ground, but I think there is nothing to throw against the one in stage 6, so I couldn't beat it.
And yes, there's only one at the start of stage 6, though there might be another after it, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

By the way, did you see st5 boss / Literal Spider Man's instakill attack? The beer and tiredness definitely aided the effect, but yo - that is some scary shit!

Oh yeah, got killed by hit the first time I fought him. I was trying to jump at him (both trying to kick and grab him, as I still didn't know he'd eventually come down to fight at close quarters) and he grabbed me -- still managed to wiggle myself out of his grip once, but I was already too far up the screen and he quickly grabbed me again and it was KO.
On our next match, I was actually curious as to if he'd still be able to grab me while I was ducking, and yes he does.
Managed to escape his clutches this time, but it is surprisingly tough to do so, since he's very tenacious.

-----

Also love the cola machines (both at the bonus rounds, and mid-stages) and the drinking mechanic (being defenseless for a bit while drinking). While at the bonus rounds this is of little consequence, during the levels it's a different story.
In the first couple levels (can't recall if there is one in every level) you just need to dispatch a couple mooks, and then you can drink your cola in peace (the fact that you can drink cola in the middle of a slaughter is pretty damn funny), but in stage 3, the unwary player will get hit by a grenade from one of those yellow bastards.
Design-wise, though, it is a pretty interesting take on the health restoratives commonly found on games like this, but with the caveat that, not only is it not free (you have to clear the area first, lest the enemy interrupt your soda time), but you also have a time limit to do so (during the stages, the machine will eventually explode taking any cans on the floor along with it, which I believe does not depend solely on the damage you inflict on it. I can be wrong, of course).

Will play some more later, and hopefully eventually reach the end of stage 6 soon.

[kitten]

The first game has a PCE-CD port I've been meaning to try out - no idea how faithful it is, but it looks pretty fun in its own right.

interesting! i think i'd actually glanced at this one and assumed it was some kind of strategy game and that the screens were just some kind of animation playing to demonstrate attacks. the pce hardly got any beat 'em ups of any sort, it felt like. i've got ane-san (which is a genuine belt scroller) and mad stalker (which we've been over), but the closest other stuff is more toward spartan x-esque lineage.

that reminds me, on the spartan x side, there are a couple i forgot to mention in that bigger post that i've actually got on the way - cyber cross and cross wiber, two super sentai inspired games by face, who did a bunch of other stuff for the pc engine, too. i've not got high hopes given face's usual "aww they tried" kind of quality, but they were cheap enough i think i'll have a good time with them.

actually, hold the damn phone, i'll leave what i was originally typing up there for posterity on my assumption - face only published them, and they were developed by two different people. interesting! i had thought they were more closely related. i've gone and excited myself a bit more.

cyber cross (the first of the two) was done by ITL, who later did a bunch of stuff for taito - seemed to mostly be console ports. they did both the sfc sonic blast man games, it would seem. i recently played the first one, and it was pretty gosh dang bad. given that this is their first game, i'm not exactly going to be expecting quality, but maybe it will at least be interesting. i do like delving into relatively unknown developers with semi-extensive libraries and tracking their development, even if it proves to be nothing but trash. they later did sonic blast man II, which is well-regarded (and also coming in my shipment with cyber cross), so perhaps this will be a fruitful endeavor.

cross wiber, on the other hand, was done by sankindo, who appear to have only done 3 games. there's always little gaps in mobygames history on some of these smaller devs, so i'll not be surprised if something isn't listed, and GDRI seems pretty confused and inconclusive about whether or not they're actually part of face or not. there aren't pages for a few pce games at all on mobygames, for example (e.g. hani in the sky has an entry, another face-published game, but hani on the road didn't - who knows what else didn't make itself obvious to me). cross wiber appears to be their first game, followed by metal stoker (which i've been interested in and hope to enjoy much more than i did granada, which i didn't enjoy at all) and then concluding with some sort of pinball game with a story mode called time cruise (which i'm now also interested in lol).

the pce is such a contained library and full of devs who kind of lived and died by the thing - exploring its history has been rewarding all on its own. it's still very strange to me how mysterious and poorly documented much of this history is, but perhaps that is part of the allure! i always get so worked up and emotional thinking about these modest salarymen who brought fun & joy to so many people just having any trace they were beloved amusement creators evaporate into the wind (perhaps a wild exaggeration for a few of these games, but please bear with the sentiment).

learning about this kind of stuff is magical!!

meanwhile, western console games history is intimately trackable, for the most part, and people are super eager to openly blather on about their garbage with smug pride - too bad they were inept at making action games and listening to their hubris is torture! this guy in particular seems to think he actually contributed meaningfully to the library on that console by working on the lion king game, which is grueling to patronize with a listen. i would kill someone for a video interview this extensive with goddamn anyone who worked at minakuchi engineering or numerous other obscure japanese studios who we still don't even know the employees of, but no, there's instead just a river of shit like this deep enough to drown in.

Eh, anyway, I'm sure you'd agree consoles leave more than enough to keep up with. ;3

very much! at the very least, for now. the allure of PCB's as some sort of later-life hobby remains quite appealing as a motivational dream while i scour everything else, in the mean time. i've got at least another decade's worth of intimate digging - both in new stuff to play and older stuff to refine - before that, though. even what games i strongly dislike provide a really attractive expansion of my frame of reference. for example, i mean, i couldn't tell anyone that playing captain ED for the famicom had me finding it anything but a tedious near-misery, but there is a very real and lasting pleasure in having gone through the absurd experience. i would weep for even abject trash in the famicom's library being erased from its history, but would likely not shed a tear for swathes of popular modern titles to be vastly erased.

None of this really matters though - the soundtrack is immense. Super catchy and super heavy. Sakimoto and his frequent partner Iwata were alchemists. (tbh, maybe it's better that the game doesn't demand all that much attention >_> )

i feel like i'd be slightly more inclined to get it if i knew it had a sound test. been forever since i tried it briefly on an emulator to test it out. i sometimes put elemental master in my mega drive just too boot up its sound test, i love it so much. been toying with the idea of upgrading my loose elemental master to a complete copy, even though i'm not too big on the boxart. the more i delve into jp game history and expand what i own, the more the mega drive feels like this sleek, attractive thing - especially with how nice the packaging is on the games. i'm almost always jealous of someone's complete MD collection, even when upon observation they own a bunch of cheap trash. they're so dang classy on a shelf! the japanese perspective on the MD is so vastly different from the american one, where it feels like - to many - it was the cheaper, trashier alternative to the snes to play sports games on.

that, or it was just the sonic the hedgehog machine

i feel like the actual, higher quality titles on the machine are perhaps the least properly considered of the three "16 bit" generation consoles (even lesser than the tg16) in english speaking territories. with my now pretty extensive dive into the pc engine and even bigger recommittal to discovering the super famicom, i feel i've been letting the mega drive library go a tad neglected. any top of your head recommendations? i'm still due to check alien soldier out again, but that's one i'll get when i get it - that price!! i'm also hoping with having just picked up gunstar heroes and playing it for the 5th or 6th time finally enlightens me on that one, i just can't understand its popularity. my experience with the console is far from what i'd consider amateur and it might be hard to dig out stuff i've not heard of, but i'd be interesting in hearing recs. feel free to crosspost or bump me to the mega drive thread if said recommendations veer into less action-oriented directions.

VPW2 is probably the best of the lot... it was Japan-only, released between the Western Wrestlemania 2000 and No Mercy.

you're far from the first person with an extensive frame of reference i've seen praise n64 wrestling games, so i'd consider my interest piqued by now into giving at least one a shot. i've never really had an interest in wrestling and sadly am no longer friends with the person i'd most want to talk about this with (she and i had a falling out), but there's probably something of value for me to wring from the multiplayer or even just the brutal fights.

You mean Now Production? I found they did some solid games (they did Rolling Thunder 3 and the Splatterhouse sequels), but also made a few games that have me scratching my head like their Ms. Pac-Man port (various systems, including NES).

i was really particularly burned over how intensely i disliked their doraemon game for the pc engine. got it essentially for free in a very well priced bundle of other stuff i wanted, but man, that was really joyless. mickey's dangerous chase for gb was also pretty much only just inoffensive, at best. i was also not a fan of either splatterhouse sequel, but it's been long enough that they may deserve a reconsideration - i just felt them direly lacking in comparison to the original, which i really enjoyed.

then again, they seem to have done the jackie chan game for famicom, which i actually really enjoyed. hrm. i don't know. i'll keep wanpaku graffiti in reasonable consideration.

Crude Buster MD is rad. ¦3

you certainly at least make it look like a blast. i've got a suspicion i might not end up liking this one much beyond its presentation, but i'm willing to give it a shot so long as i'm not paying an absurd amount.

plus, who can deny this amazing art!

Spoiler

i'd be remiss to not add that to the list of mega drive titles i'm looking at.

In my Thanksgiving Drunkenness I decided to do my inexplicably yearly 1CC of Wanpaku Kokkun no Gourmet World (Panic Restaurant) which I finished a few minutes ago. I don't know what it is I love about this game so much. It's super fuckin easy, they throw tons of lives at you and none of the platforming challenges presented to you are particularly...challenging. But the graphics are so cute and the music is so happy and fun and it's a just a joy to blow through. It was one of the first roms I found in those magical early 2000's of the internet that really made an impression on me.

ah, that's a fun little one! i had a bit of a rough first experience and initially pegged it at a lower quality due to some frustrating enemies (those things that swipe the screen diagonally that show up in the 3rd or the 4th stage struck me as particularly uninteresting & annoying, especially how they'd start to attack you from ladders). after a couple of replays, however, i was finding myself quite fond of it to the point i'd consider it earning a well-deserved spot in the library of anyone with inclination toward rockman-esque games. it has a very similar stop-and-go pacing to its individual screens and bit of a comparably cartoony visual vibe to it. the combat is less ranged, but you approach a lot of situations similarly.

this is one of (very) many i intend to back and do another nomiss in and publish to my channel. it's certainly a hell of a lot better than pizza pop, which it often gets mentioned in proximity of. i tend to prefer the graphics for the jp version of gourmet world, but some people really prefer the chubby little old man in the nes version. all the better for them, i'll stick to my much cheaper fc version and be happy with it ;P

He's actually rather simple, in my opinion.

i figured he was probably simpler than i was making him out to be. i'm still pretty inexperienced with beat 'em ups and it sometimes feels like really simple patterns are super hard for me to suss out, like i'm just overlooking the one obvious piece of the puzzle that provides a solution. i'm getting more of an intuition about it, however!

i think my longtime lack of intuitively grasping this kind of stuff is what led me so ambivalent about the genre for such a long time, and that much of this was rooted in not understanding how the hell grabs initiate by both the player and enemies. i get intensely frustrated when i expect to grab and instead get grabbed, and it used to make me question if i understood how the mechanic worked at all when i'd bump into bosses who had special properties with the ability to take priority over you on the action. some enemies in these types of games having a random chance to react differently or take priority over you on only certain actions was something i was loosened up on by playing - and brace yourself for how strange this may seem to say - the last of us! its melee combat does not explain to you that there's chance failure/punishment on certain activities (e.g. going at someone who is aware of your presence with a wooden plank can result in them overriding with their own, faster attack [the canned animation initiated when you swing], but will usually work without this happening), and i didn't grasp this until replaying it for like the 3rd or 4th time. it became much better when i understood that, and perhaps helped warm me up to some beat 'em ups having actions that are only sometimes punished and discerning which those are.

my 1cc on batman returns felt particularly satisfying to me because i felt i'd grown a lot in understanding the basics of when to grab and when to jab. even though it was a pretty sloppy play i could definitely refine, i was largely pleased with that run. the genre feels a bit less impenetrable to me, now. TNWA was a big urge to check out some other games with similar mechanics, too, and has just narrowly earned the #10 spot in my favorite games of all time. i can't believe it even topped wild guns as my fav natsume game, but it's settling very well over time into adoration. as much as i also adore wild guns, i just can't get that kind of intense mechanical tightness & refinement out of it. i prefer wild guns' presentation ever so slightly more than TNWA's - a somewhat meaningful advantage, but not enough of one to lift it over the other. i've been working a lot to create another top 100 (after like 7 years since my previous), and have so far (over a few weeks of picking) organized about the top 50 and have the other 50 in loose positions. i'm hoping to at least hit the 50k word mark that i did with the previous one! like last time... organizing this thing and putting significant thought into it often feels like very painful hair-splitting, but i think it ultimately helps me understand my taste even further.

i still bite it a bit on some bosses in beat 'em ups that i'm still going to whine about and call unfair or poor, however! but i think i'm way further along in ability to quickly distinguish which are interestingly nuanced and which are just cheap or cruel.

Agreed, I don't believe that the design of the game (and its execution) was anything other than what the developers intended.
Players may not like it, or not think too much of it, but there's too much thought put into the game's aesthetics/enemies/interactions to say it wasn't well executed.

it is very strange to me how common the complaint is that the game is too easy and thus must not have been finished or fully thought out. this complaint very often comes from the same people who bitch about anything harder than a mario game being some sort of exercise in sadomasochism, too, as if every game is supposed to hit this level that makes them feel perfectly empowered. they act as if they want to be challenged, but what they really want is a game that flips the switches in their brain to pretend they're accomplished or clever (i recently 100%'d mario odyssey and good fucking god is that the poster child for that kind of cynically manipulative design). despite having a usual appreciation for more difficult games, i had a feeling people here would be slightly more likely to appreciate trip world for what it is because of a better general understanding of and appreciation for nuanced game design - especially from the period.

there's a few modern indie games i like that are similarly trying to offer players clever subversions to violent play, but most that attempt do so are very poor at it, and even the really good ones tend to do it a hell of a lot less subtly. i'm pleased to get a little bit of validation for my take on the game, here! i feel confident about it, but there's still that pull at the back of my head that i'm another fraudulent navel-gazer writing a thinkpiece that should have been kept a silly diary entry. people really dogmatically push their bad takes on games, these days, but i feel trip world's intent is right there in the mechanics. i once submitted an article to a publication that denied me in favor of taking on a writer who would publish articles containing brilliant passages like this. it feels like i am supposed to write this kind of trash to gain traction with people, and i think i'd rather swallow a railroad spike.

I do like the mechanic of powering your basic attack by not attacking -- it's like MegaMan's charged shots, but without the hassle of having to keep the attack button pressed all the time. Definitely a novel approach (at the time, at least that I know of) that works pretty well.

a bit similar, but notably different. without going into depth about how nuanced & weird the charge mechanic is in makyo densetsu (4 tiers of charge, different speed of charge when breaching each new tier), one of the most important things to consider is that once charged, the attack is completely a straight upgrade with no disadvantage when unleashed. in rockman, the charge shot is often considered such, but it prevents you from rapid-firing. in most of the games, sans perhaps III on the game boy (but lets leave the gb games out of this because each one treats the charge shot differently and rapid firing works differently, as well) which is really overtly designed in favor of approaching every screen pre-charged, charging all the time is actually a bad idea.

rapid-firing is better for taking on chunkier enemies in many instances because you'll simply be able to do higher dps, especially so if there's a clear line between you and the target and you're able to close some space. on top of that, there are sometimes segments where you'd want to take popcorn enemies out at a more rapid rate, and opening your barrage with a charge shots prevents you from rapid fire until it exits the screen (plus a fraction of a second - regular pellets leaving the screen allows them to be fired again immediately, but there's a brief delay after a charge shot hitting its target/leaving before firing can resume). simply timing & executing more shots at a quicker rate is more viable. the charge shot in rockman is only particular useful against regular enemies when they're 3 points of health and you just scrolled 'em onto the screen and need to take them out quickly and reliably, which is actually pretty infrequently. if rockman games with a charge shot autocharged, they'd frankly be a bit worse. mind you, most people treat the rockman games with a charge shot like you're supposed to charge it all the time, anyway, but i feel you're sabotaging the game when you do that to yourself - especially in 5 or 6 (fc/nes) where a hit will cause you to lose charge.

in makyo densetsu, you control the rate at which you scroll like in rockman, but because of the lack of disadvantages (and short range suggesting you want to get in & out of an enemy's reach, which is a non-issue in rockman), getting that humongous charge meter filled ends up becoming a detriment to its pacing. there's no reason (other than it being excruciatingly boring) to not charge a full shot up before advancing the screen, and enemies later in the game basically require a couple of precisely landed full charges to efficiently take them out. boss fights are arguably more interesting because of the pressure to charge while under threat, but the leisure at which you're allowed to take out most enemies removes the kind of excitement of charging a shot under pressure or considering the alternate approach of rapid strikes.

it's still a really good game! i just feel the charge mechanic is as much its big unique thing as it is this bit of a burden on the design as it goes onward. could have perhaps used a slightly more elegant implementation or more aggressive enemies that would force your hand. a lot of the game's more resilient foes let you have too much control over the pace of their encounter, thus suggesting you stay back and charge an attack to cave their skull in versus keeping yourself in the thick of it. i feel like this is a bit the problem with rockman, in general, and why a lot of big action game enthusiasts veer from it (but it remains a consistent favorite of more casual players) - there's not enough urgency in so many of the encounters that people get bored.

edit:

oop, meant to respond to this:

In the years since I picked it up I've come to love this port, after initially thinking of it as semi-completism. Lots of booming Maezawasplosions ringing out at any given moment. Except for during that truly crummy but mercifully brief pair of st4 autoscrollers! GB Contra completely schools this port with its much more exciting st5 elevator! Though admittedly, its first stage has one nearly as bad! I'm going to kill myself. D: (GB Contra rocks, don't let that early snoozer put you off)

have you ever gone far into loops on the gb game? i remember playing the 2nd and 3rd loops and not really noticing anything significant, but it's been quite a long time. i also didn't remember anything in the 2nd loop of super contra (i've back-to-back nomiss'd and then turned off out of not seeing any big changes), but your observations suggest there's at least a little something.

also, weird little note about the gb game - have you ever waited around before that jump over the waterfall just before the 3rd boss? if you sit there for something like 30 seconds (what feels like an eternity) it will actually extend a bridge over the waterfall for you to walk over. i found this out on accident when taking a short break before the tackling the boss without pausing, and came back to that bridge being there and wondering what on fucking earth happened. i think i might have actually used this on my last 2-loop nomiss from ages ago, just because that jump is deceptively mean and i sometimes hop my dumb ass straight down the waterfall. god, it is seriously a wait of absolute shame, though, but at least a really interesting little detail.

i have never gotten fully used to the super slow horizontal movement speed and ultra tall jump of that game. a friend of mine posited that it's likely because it's running on the same engine that that team at konami used for several of their games. iirc, there seemed to a few teams at konami making gb games, and the one that made this game seemed to share the same engine with a few other games. skate or die: bad n rad (the obvious black sheep), gb contra, dracula densetsu 2, and dracula-kun all shared at least 4 staff with each other and all seemed to use this engine, as well as a few other konami gb games. although i like contra gb a fair bit, i find the other games a little lacking and tend to prefer the team (or at least that's what it seems they were) that did cave noire, batman: tas, and nemesis 2.

[Sumez]

Despite suffering from common flaws of western platform games of the early-to-mid 90s, I don't really think Lion King is a particularly bad game. It's pretty enjoyable for what it is. It's pretty obvious that gameplay came second compared to the presentation, though. And hey, it worked. It sold really well, and it does look great.

Compared to garbage like Maui Mallard or Earthworm Jim it's almost a masterpiece

By the way (Sonic Blast Man made me think of this), why does no one ever talk about Eight Man on the Neo Geo??

[Blinge]

Lord of King

Bahaha. That title.
Colour me intrigued.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Earthworm Jim is garbage???

[kitten]

Despite suffering from common flaws of western platform games of the early-to-mid 90s, I don't really think Lion King is a particularly bad game. It's pretty enjoyable for what it is. It's pretty obvious that gameplay came second compared to the presentation, though. And hey, it worked. It sold really well, and it does look great.

Compared to garbage like Maui Mallard or Earthworm Jim it's almost a masterpiece

eh, it's just another one of those games in an already massive pile of them. i have nothing against it more than most others. the only interesting things to glean out of an interview with this guy are details about the movie that got revealed through it and that he caved under pressure and made some really stupid decisions in early stages (like the monkey puzzle) just to try to force kids to be unable to beat it in a rental. i mean, in general, the interview is of a businessman and from his businessman perspective. western devs from this around time making classic games (particularly action, platforming, etc.) seemed to have little regard for game design and more about making a game cutting edge or attractive-looking at the expense of everything. no understanding of game design beyond basics and no real impetus other than to make sure the product moves, at the end of the day.

it's really obvious the artists had most of the reign over this game, and it's no surprise that some of them went to shiny to make earthworm jim. i feel it has plenty of assets that look individually impressive, but that common problem from the 16-bit generation where they're repetitively placed in front of a parallax background with an overactive camera, and with sprites so over-animated that their animations don't mesh with the snappiness of a video game. everything also has soft-shaded edges, too, which kind of makes it blend into a mess when combined with everything else. a lot of labor went into that art, but little into making it cohesively fit with a game. nonsensical curvature of platforms and inability to understand where you'll land on one, enemy hitboxes that are basically unreadable, ledges you don't know when the character will actually grab... this kind of stuff is shared heavily among western console devs because they didn't really have much of an idea over what they're doing.

but anyway, my point isn't that lion king is especially, egregiously bad, it's that the guy they're interviewing has nothing interesting to say about games and that he & his kind have been given incredible platform to talk about this stuff while a lot of jp devs sink into obscurity or remain completely unknown. it's frustrating and depressing.

[__SKYe]

Played Crude Buster again, and this time managed to reach the twin snake bosses in Stage 6 (with the 3 continues again).
Still, I now know more or less how to defeat most enemies (up until stages 5~6) and now it's a matter of execution.

I tried your method with the Rhinoceros boss, and he'll indeed jump away from you, and you can follow him and grab+throw him, but you do need semi-accurate timing here, as getting too close to him (after you knock him down) will result in him grabbing and throwing you instead, and you also need to pursue him quickly after he jumps, or he'll be too far away to be grabbed.
Definitely the only strategy that works, otherwise it would come down to hitting at each other until one of you died.

I have gotten more used to the controls, and what you can and can't do when trying to grab stuff.
One of my problems in this area was trying to grab enemies that were on the upper plane, where I tried to jump and grab them, but I ended up going into their plane instead (because of pressing jump+Up) and always took damage. Now I have learned that you can hop onto one of the little platforms (where there are some) and simply press Up+Grab to grab them up.

Also discovered that you can pick up the grenades that enemies' throw, and throw them back. I only which they would fly at an arc, like the barrels (they go straight instead). Would also be nice if you could throw things stragght up too (pretty usefull against these grenade throwing enemies in stage 4, I believe).

And I've confirmed that enemies get i-frames after touching you, which is perhaps the only thing I consider a bit unfair, and is especially troublesome against large groups of enemies, and against the bigger, re-purposed bosses in Stage 6 (the snake bosses, for example, since there are two of them, they jump a lot and they're pretty big, so contact damage isn't too improbable) because if they ram you, you'll take damage but won't be able to retaliate because they'll go into invincibility time.
Perhaps getting used to grab them out of the air will help me here.

Also BIL, you were right: there are 2 tanks at the start of Stage 6, but they come one at a time.
Managed to destroy them both without trouble (mashing to pick them up is pretty cool), but discovered you take damage by getting close to them while they're exploding (similar to the doors you need to destroy, that will explode and give you damage if you're standing too close).

Loved the elevator section, most definitely a staple of beat-em-ups, single plane or not.

I've gotta say, it gets considerably more fun to play when you get used to the controls, and the grabbing mechanic especially.

And forgot to say this earlier (and don't recall if it has been said before), but the game's soundtrack is really nice as well -- it complements the aesthetics very well, and it's deserves some praise.

And before I forget:

TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL Vol.II

Spoiler

I've grown very fond of grabbing the hover vehicle out of the air, and throwing it at the enemies that it was carrying. It is always fun, never disappoints.

-----

i figured he was probably simpler than i was making him out to be. i'm still pretty inexperienced with beat 'em ups and it sometimes feels like really simple patterns are super hard for me to suss out, like i'm just overlooking the one obvious piece of the puzzle that provides a solution. i'm getting more of an intuition about it, however!

Don't sweat it, I used to do that not too long ago -- there's always *that* boss that we just wanna get over with, and move on to better things.
Of course, it eventually becomes a necessity to learn their patterns properly, if trying to go for a more consistent run/no-miss/etc.

i think my longtime lack of intuitively grasping this kind of stuff is what led me so ambivalent about the genre for such a long time, and that much of this was rooted in not understanding how the hell grabs initiate by both the player and enemies. i get intensely frustrated when i expect to grab and instead get grabbed, and it used to make me question if i understood how the mechanic worked at all when i'd bump into bosses who had special properties with the ability to take priority over you on the action. some enemies in these types of games having a random chance to react differently or take priority over you on only certain actions was something i was loosened up on by playing

It takes a bit of getting used to, but we must also make a distinction between games that do this properly, and the ones that don't.
On one side you have, for example, the Capcom brawlers, the SOR series, etc, which are very consistent in this regard -- you will never fail to grab an enemy when you get close to them, and the exceptions to this are very clear (you can't do it against bosses during their knockdown i-frames, bosses that actively punish you for grabbing them (common in BK2 and BK3) and enemies which can grab you as well, as part of their AI, like the bikers in BK2 and the Vice/Nasty enemies in BK3), and on the other you have the ones that are more finicky (some a bit, others a lot) like the first Rushing Beat (haven't played much of the sequels) or the Sailor Moon games (which, although quite good (especially R) are not quite up to par with FF/BK in this regard).

In my opinion, grab mechanics are one of the most important aspects of a beat-em-up (with z-depth especially), and games that screw up on this regard immediately lose value with me. They're not the be all and end all, but I hold them in a high regard in this genre.

i still bite it a bit on some bosses in beat 'em ups that i'm still going to whine about and call unfair or poor, however! but i think i'm way further along in ability to quickly distinguish which are interestingly nuanced and which are just cheap or cruel.

And you wouldn't be exactly wrong -- as much as I like Final Fight, for example, there's no denying that beating Sodom/Abigail (and the others, of course) requires a pretty strict routine, lest you lose 1/2 your HP with a single strike. This is bound to throw people off when one isn't used to it, or doesn't have strat for them yet.
But in my opinion, as long as it is possible to beat them consistently, without having to rely on lucky RNG, or without requiring trading hits, then I wouldn't qualify them as unfair -- brutal yes, but doable, albeit requiring a high skill to beat.

There's no denying that many games/bosses use (and abuse) simple AI like uber-range/bloated damage/ramming tactics, but that's just a standard of the old-school arcade design philosophy, I guess.

[WelshMegalodon]

R's grab mechanics are as consistent as those found in any Bare Knuckle. Green and white Dumbles will punish any attempts to grab, as will silver Jaamanen, and yellow Jaamenen can only be grabbed when they are not emerging from their puddle form. Of the four bosses, only Demande appears invulnerable to grabs. Just about every other enemy can be grabbed when close (provided they're not in the active frames of their attack animation, of course). I've thrown Esmeraude and Saphir into submission without a single hit taken as every character except for Usagi and Minako, respectively.

[__SKYe]

R's grab mechanics are as consistent as those found in any Bare Knuckle. Green and white Dumbles will punish any attempts to grab, as will silver Jaamanen, and yellow Jaamenen can only be grabbed when they are not emerging from their puddle form. Of the four bosses, only Demande appears invulnerable to grabs. Just about every other enemy can be grabbed when close (provided they're not in the active frames of their attack animation, of course). I've thrown Esmeraude and Saphir into submission without a single hit taken as every character except for Usagi and Minako, respectively.

Ah yes, R's grab mechanics are nearly flawless, but I still have a minor gripe with the jump stun attack & grab (and I just booted the game again to make sure), which doesn't work as flawless as Final Fight or the BK games (the later ones at least).
I believe I posted about this before, and just now I was trying to figure out why this particular mechanic always seemed off, and I think it is because enemies are invulnerable to grabs when in hitstun.
Their histstun is pretty brief, and you never encounter this issue when approaching them for the grab (whether it be from the front or using the depth plane), but you will, when you stun them with a jump+stun attack.

Again, very minor things, and only really noticeable if you perform that jump+stun late, as you're falling (to keep enemies' in hitstun as you land), but it is there. This is what I meant with some games having mechanics that only slightly finicky (very slightly in R's case), and others that are very much so.

R is most definitely one of the higher quality non-Capcom/Konami/Sega beat-em-ups out there (especially on consoles), and if your playstyle doesn't involve doing the jump+stun, then you'll never encounter that issue.

Regarding some enemies and bosses invulnerability to grabs, that's a different story, and totaly OK -- that is a matter of AI/design, rather than an execution issue. The BK series has quite a few of these, starting with Abadede in BK2, and Robo Axel/Robo Mr. X/Final Boss (which will actively counter when grabbed, and should be thrown as fast as you can, if you happen to grab them) and even the other bosses like Jet/The Twins/etc, which, although they won't counter when grabbed properly, will still grab you instead quite often.

[BIL]

interesting! i think i'd actually glanced at this one and assumed it was some kind of strategy game and that the screens were just some kind of animation playing to demonstrate attacks.

Same - IIRC, Capcom actually did produce an SRPG-esque game based on the license. For the Famicom, if I recall (getting pretty hazy here, haha). I ignored the PCE-CD port for years on that account. The arcade and port both look really interesting, now that I understand how they work. Looks almost like a battlefield painting in motion, down to the muted colours.

they later did sonic blast man II, which is well-regarded (and also coming in my shipment with cyber cross), so perhaps this will be a fruitful endeavor.

I got the impression I could take or leave SBM1 - no strong feelings either way - but I'm interested in the second game. Really brutal-feeling, which always gets my attention. Looove that clubbing blow to the back of the neck that finishes SBM's grapple flurry - an already vicious shot that also smashes the target face-first into the ground. TNWA-esque!

i feel like the actual, higher quality titles on the machine are perhaps the least properly considered of the three "16 bit" generation consoles (even lesser than the tg16) in english speaking territories. with my now pretty extensive dive into the pc engine and even bigger recommittal to discovering the super famicom, i feel i've been letting the mega drive library go a tad neglected. any top of your head recommendations?

Yarr, get ye to the MD thread ;3 (my post got a bit more extensive than planned, so thought we might as well)

On scrolling action affairs: Alien Soldier is a given, of course - there are games I'd take to a desert island, and there are games I'd go to hell for (see also TNWA). Incidentally, I was replaying Battle Formula recently with an eye towards the 2-ALL, and while (quite joyfully ) restarting stage 1 like ten times before I got my old, perfectly-synced with the POW carriers groove back (BLUE CAR & FULL RAPID @ STAGE 1, BOYEEE), it hit me how similarly they play. In both there's this compulsion to surge forward both A) annihilating all in sight and B) artfully nabbing up items, missing a beat on neither... it is of course totally illusory (you can stop scrolling at any time), but will nonetheless be an alluring and fiendishly technical challenge for certain players. And of course both sacrifice immediate usability for this endgame effect. When you get around to AS, I'd be interested to hear if you notice the same similarities. Obviously AS isn't the only assault course sidescroller (there's Super Shinobi, Super Shinobi II and Vampire Killer for starters) but with the favouring of bullet-crazed murder over platforming it's probably the most avowedly STG-esque of those.

i'm still due to check alien soldier out again, but that's one i'll get when i get it - that price!! i'm also hoping with having just picked up gunstar heroes and playing it for the 5th or 6th time finally enlightens me on that one, i just can't understand its popularity. my experience with the console is far from what i'd consider amateur and it might be hard to dig out stuff i've not heard of, but i'd be interesting in hearing recs. feel free to crosspost or bump me to the mega drive thread if said recommendations veer into less action-oriented directions.

M2's PS2 Treasure Box (AS, GH and Headdy) is a fine alternative - their typical sterling quality with 240p, slowdown & flicker toggle, button reconfig and replay saving (includes a killer superplay of its own). Input lag is of course always the chief concern with emulation - whatever this set may have, it must be absolutely minimal. Ripping apart SUPERHARD is every bit the catharsis it is on MD. As usual with M2, they include lots of goodies too - overseas versions of all three games, Game Gear versions of Gunstar and Headdy, and tons of scanned design docs. The booklet even reprints all three games' manuals in full colour! None of this would help a sub-par product, of course, but it really rounds out a solid comp.

I had this disc for years without considering the carts, and tbh only got my MD copies on impulse (early 2010s... relatively happy times). Admittedly, this was before I really fell in love with 8/16bit collecting - these days I'd never be satisfied with even a first-rate comp. But objectively it's 99.9% perfect, and something I'll always keep around (this goes for all of M2's PS2 AGES discs, and their Sega Rally 1995 port included with SR2006... marvelous works of preservation, as always from them). It's still fairly cheap too IIRC.

I'm actually pretty ambivalent on Gunstar myself. I certainly don't dislike it but it's not a game I get very passionate over. I will say that anyone who considers it and Alien Soldier overly similar, beyond them having lots of bosses, is mistaken. AS has a performance ceiling and technical pressure I've never found evidence of in Gunstar. Like comparing Geostorm to Metal Slug tbh.

you're far from the first person with an extensive frame of reference i've seen praise n64 wrestling games, so i'd consider my interest piqued by now into giving at least one a shot. i've never really had an interest in wrestling and sadly am no longer friends with the person i'd most want to talk about this with (she and i had a falling out), but there's probably something of value for me to wring from the multiplayer or even just the brutal fights.

The bolded: absolutely. AKI were basically former Human Entertainment staff who branched off to continue the Fire Pro tradition of excellence. The VPWs are strikingly Technos-esque, actually, with the emphasis on beating down the enemy before landing the killer blow. Go for the big moves early and you'll only get shrugged off. They're perceived as button-mashers by some, probably due to the woefully mistaken belief that hammering your controller will create miracle throw escapes/reversals. Bwahaha no. The only button involved is "R," and the most leisurely of tap-tap-tapping during the attack will get you the escape - assuming you've got the Spirit meter, the remaining good health, and a bit of luck. The last factor's influence will range from overpowering to virtually absent, depending on the former two - creates drama when two bloodied, half-dead rivals are desperately trying for that big momentum-turning slam... meanwhile, if you've just force-fed the enemy his own ass cheeks, you can be 99% sure that DDT is gonna hit square.

As for strikes, the timing-based system ensures nothing but icy-cold skill will work there. And on the flip side, mashing out strikes (or grabs) willy-nilly is a really bad idea! Mash on a pro and before long, you're gonna be picking up your teeth with a broken arm.

Like any series that saw yearly/biennial revisions, it looks convoluted from the outside... basically, just go for VPW2 (it's still pretty cheap even brand new). It came out right at the end of the series' core refinements, before the Western-only finale No Mercy basically added a ton of backstage "hardcore" fluff. No Mercy is totally fine - even the furniture-chucking hardcore is done to AKI's typical high standards - and it's probably along with Wrestlemania 2000 the next-best alternative. But I prefer the purity of VPW2, which also has its wickedly intense MMA mode - basically an entire game unto itself, FO FREE.

The earlier games (pre-Wrestlemania 2000) suffer from silly balancing... their enormous rosters don't even try, really, especially on the critical matter of strike reversals. Some grapplers have unstoppable submission holds, others are stuck with easily-caught counterstrikes. WM2000-onward let you totally sidestep this with Create-A-Wrestler. Just clone a wrestler into a vacant slot and tweak up/down as needed. In my little groups, we like to go either/or... either everyone has instant reversals, for viciously punishing and likely brief bouts, or nobody does. I recommend the latter; reversal volleys can go on for hilarious lengths, until someone finally botches their timing and eats a knuckle sammich! The SFX of a successful catch will stick in your mind... *BAP!*

TLDR: they're genuinely really well-done head-to-head brawlers, with pitch-perfect party/hardcore appeal. Don't be fooled by the biennial updates and silly pro wrestling gimmicks; a ton of heart and expertise went into these games.

i was also not a fan of either splatterhouse sequel, but it's been long enough that they may deserve a reconsideration - i just felt them direly lacking in comparison to the original, which i really enjoyed.

For the love of god, if you play SH3, make sure it's the JP version ("Splatterhouse Part 3"). The US one is, to paraphrase John Lennon, a pretty box with nothing inside. Awesome style but the wrong-headed rebalancing leaves it essentially Final Fight: Free Bombs. Aieee! JP is an entirely acceptable Final Fight-esque with some interesting time attack elements and almighty horror production. The genre shift is obviously not ideal - I'd have loved to see this in singleplane, frankly - but that forgiven, I recommend it. You will be compelled do a whole lot of neat things you'd never even think to bother with in US! Or even flat-out can't do in US!

then again, they seem to have done the jackie chan game for famicom, which i actually really enjoyed. hrm. i don't know. i'll keep wanpaku graffiti in reasonable consideration.

Interesting, and yet I'm not surprised... could totally see the same people doing both. Love those big, bold sprites, both games feel almost arcadey that way.

you certainly at least make it look like a blast. i've got a suspicion i might not end up liking this one much beyond its presentation, but i'm willing to give it a shot so long as i'm not paying an absurd amount.

AFAIK it ain't cheap, at least in JP. 3; It is most certainly a quality brawler, though. In DECO's typically idiosyncratic, at times perplexing way. At least.

also, weird little note about the gb game - have you ever waited around before that jump over the waterfall just before the 3rd boss? if you sit there for something like 30 seconds (what feels like an eternity) it will actually extend a bridge over the waterfall for you to walk over.

I did know about that, but only after seeing it mentioned in a review. Utterly bizarre! But harmless. That jump is indeed deceptively mean but I don't mind it too much.

i have never gotten fully used to the super slow horizontal movement speed and ultra tall jump of that game. a friend of mine posited that it's likely because it's running on the same engine that that team at konami used for several of their games.

No idea if they actually share engines, but I'm grateful to god and Jesus that GB Contra didn't share Dracula Densetsu II's abysmal walk speed. The former rollicks right along, particularly in the corridors of the final stage - it may not move quite as briskly as its FC inspirations, but the signature destructive rhythm is most definitely there. I like DDII, but I have to grit my teeth a little (the OST takes most of the annoyance away). Totally wrong-headed to make Christopher move so sluggishly... he moves about as quickly as Simon does in the FC game's intro sequence, for god's sake! It also makes Dracula a total memoriser, since you simply can't avoid his attacks on reaction... contrast that with GB Contra's rather nice final duel (though why they followed it with a Gradius Brain I dunno!).

Despite suffering from common flaws of western platform games of the early-to-mid 90s, I don't really think Lion King is a particularly bad game. It's pretty enjoyable for what it is. It's pretty obvious that gameplay came second compared to the presentation, though. And hey, it worked. It sold really well, and it does look great.

Compared to garbage like Maui Mallard or Earthworm Jim it's almost a masterpiece

Can't muster up much feeling for Lion King either way, but I'd be tempted to hear from the Alien 3 (MD) guys. Specifically WTF they were thinking, game's a wreck. :3 (with some very cool stylistic elements!)

Bahaha. That title.
Colour me intrigued.

I know right! Delightful hyperventilating hyperbole. I half-wonder if they meant "The Road of King" (see Nes Life Force and ROAD BRITISH - u wot m8? )

[mycophobia]

Earthworm Jim is garbage???

Mechanically it's meh but I like the music and graphics. It's by no means a masterpiece but I like it well enough. For whatever that's worth.

[Sumez]

It's nowhere as bad as Maui Mallard for sure. It was just the first thing I could think of when grasping for stereotypical 90s western platformers

[__SKYe]

Played a few more credits in Crude Buster, and managed to reach the last boss twice, but lost both times.
BIL, have you reach him? Absolutely fantastic, and bloody funny -- such a contrast between ridiculously weak versus brutal tough.

I know mostly what to do against almost every enemy/boss, though the execution is still lacking.
On one of the runs, managed to no-damage the bosses of stages 1, 2 and 4. Your tactic for the Stage 3 boss is great, but I still mess up against him every so often. It's one of the cool things about this game, especially against some of the enemies/bosses -- if you time the grabs right (against some of them the timing window is pretty small), many of them are a breeze, but mistime the input just a bit, your looking at a bleak future.

Bosses aside (and especially the buss rush in stage 6) the groups of enemies I have the most trouble with are the flamethrower dudes and the twin stage-4 bosses (the white haired, sliding dudes).
Though I can mostly deal with the second group with a bit of preemptiveness (and when I remember where they appear), the groups of 2~3 flamethrower dudes are the hardest.

Worth noting that, if the white-haired-duded are not dealt swiftly, they can beat you up with a brutal pincer attack (by sliding against you on each side, doing damage to you and gaining i-frames by touching you), worthy of DD2 Hard mode.

Still, I have to clue as to how to beat the final boss:

Spoiler

He can't be grabbed, and will occasionally go up into the ceiling and spit out eggs that will hatch into small enemies and they will rush at you (much like the stage 5~6 boss in FC Contra), and he didn't seem to ever come down (I lost all lives in the mean time.

Definitely the biggest threat in the game (and rightfully so).