The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

[BIL]

On topic, I'm currently trying to understand Alien Soldier after listening to a podcast about Treasure.

Any questions in particular? I wrote a very brief primer here (mild spoilers) with much of it demonstrated in this run.

TLDR: Focus on getting to grips with the controls, getting your ammo stocks up, and learning to manually shoot/dodge/block stuff. Don't worry about flashy teleports or super 1337 boss speedkills (those will come naturally as you improve your fundamentals), and definitely don't try emulating speedruns (they bear little resemblance to conventional play).

Also, don't be put off by the game's reputed difficulty. The usual mainstream exaggerations these games suffer aside, it's pretty forgiving in pure survival terms. The main hurdle is the very first one, getting used to the slightly more complex than average controls. There is a whole helluva lot of game to master here, with a towering performance ceiling, but just seeing the end should be quite doable if you're used to your Contras, Castlevanias etc.

[soprano1]

On topic, I'm currently trying to understand Alien Soldier after listening to a podcast about Treasure

I'm interested, mind sharing the link?

[wgogh]

On topic, I'm currently trying to understand Alien Soldier after listening to a podcast about Treasure

I'm interested, mind sharing the link?

It was the selectbutton podcast, done by the actual members from the selectbutton forum. They talked about most of the popular titles, about what makes Treasure games great and the confusion when you first try Radiant Silvergun. Really made me want to try more of their games.
http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopi ... 7725bfc656

On topic, I'm currently trying to understand Alien Soldier after listening to a podcast about Treasure.

Any questions in particular? I wrote a very brief primer here (mild spoilers) with much of it demonstrated in this run.

TLDR: Focus on getting to grips with the controls, getting your ammo stocks up, and learning to manually shoot/dodge/block stuff. Don't worry about flashy teleports or super 1337 boss speedkills (those will come naturally as you improve your fundamentals), and definitely don't try emulating speedruns (they bear little resemblance to conventional play).

Also, don't be put off by the game's reputed difficulty. The usual mainstream exaggerations these games suffer aside, it's pretty forgiving in pure survival terms. The main hurdle is the very first one, getting used to the slightly more complex than average controls. There is a whole helluva lot of game to master here, with a towering performance ceiling, but just seeing the end should be quite doable if you're used to your Contras, Castlevanias etc.

Nothing in particular, thanks, I'll sure take a look. The video will be welcome, since I'm getting used to the controls, but I need to know how to apply them in the gameplay. I never watched any speedrun or read much about the game, so Im not familiar with these speedkills nor heard anything absurd about the difficulty. All I know is that it is considered a great action game. Also, I liked the way the story unfolded, unexpected..
Nah, most games from Mega Drive suffers that exaggeraton, so I wont be scared.

[BIL]

Cool - always good to see people pick this game up.

[soprano1]

Oh, selectbutton's. Yeah, I heard that one two years ago or something. Thanks for sharing anyway.

[OmegaFlareX]

The person or people responsible for the 60hz patch for Zero Wing EU is/are super awesome. 17 years later, All Your Base still entertains. That's really a great intro.

Why do some of the Toaplan ports default to easy difficulty? Pretty weird.

Since I have full romsets it's sometimes hard to decide what to play. I found this site yesterday, and aside from the incredibly odd absence of NES titles, is pretty cool. It gave me a super cute platformer/hack-n-slash called Magical Taruruuto-kun. I think it's meant to be a kids game, but there are some tricky parts to it. Couldn't beat it before I ran out of continues, kinda embarrassing.

[Strider77]

I was a bit curious about the Genesis version (Ghouls n' Ghosts) and took a quick look around. The difficulty is on "Practice" rather than Pro by default, and the joystick is set to home rather than arcade. As far as difficulty nerfs, one immediately stood out: Genesis GNG institutes boss checkpoints, where MD Dai is exactly like its arcade counterpart (one per stage, at halfway). Probably not gonna bother investigating further, I've little interest in the game's non-JP incarnations.

How does the Super Grafix version compare to the MD port when it comes to gameplay accuracy? I'm not talking about visuals but the core meat of the game.... is it as close as the MD port when it comes to that aspect?

[WelshMegalodon]

^ This has been posted here before, but...

https://twitter.com/t_tomono/status/829128028747821056

Spoiler

check out these goofy hitboxes in daimakaimura md:

[...]
they are outright silly.

[FinalBaton]

Man, those fireball hitboxes are bullshit. lol

[Xyga]

Damn the MD port loses another point.

[Sumez]

It's kinda weird though. I've never been too deep into the MD version, but I always thought that it was spot on where it matters, though a bit easier than the arcade version where I feel like RNG is more likely to give you "unfortunate" surprises if you're not constantly prepared. (but stuff like that is really difficult to confirm)

I can't deny the visual proof from those linked GIFs, but I honestly never thought the MD version felt unfair at all, and like I said, actually easier than the arcade version if anything. To be frank, I always imagined it would be reusing a lot of code from the arcade game, since both systems are running 68K CPUs.
The SuperGrafx version obviously is awesome.

[Strider77]

I was hoping for something a little more robust than a gif from Twitter.

[FinalBaton]

I can't deny the visual proof from those linked GIFs, but I honestly never thought the MD version felt unfair at all, and like I said, actually easier than the arcade version if anything

agreed

The SuperGrafx version obviously is awesome.

and agreed

[BIL]

I'd never have found out about that fireball hitbox... st1 boss = get close and murder his face off with death from below. The gif certainly makes it look crummy, but honestly, you shouldn't be fucking around all the way back there anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if that's how it slipped through testing. Too many battle hardened face murderers in the QA dept, perhaps.

Are there any other examples, or is that an isolated thing? I've never encountered similar bullshit from the tighter squeezes later on, though I'm no expert on the port (or PCB). I could imagine it being a freak one-off, given Sega's absolute cockup of a soft-lock in the otherwise highly competent MD Strider. NTSCJ version can't be finished on one life... reach the boss rush, kill Lago, and Ouroboros won't spawn to take you to Meio; suiciding off the edge is the only solution. Fucking sucks but oh well. I can't be too mad with the sheer achievement these ports represented for the early MD.

Dai's SGX port is magnificent (PCB-style bootup sequence, unf unf unfff), though it does have the decided flaw of requiring a SuperGrafx.

[FinalBaton]

Are there any other examples, or is that an isolated thing? I've never encountered similar bullshit from the tighter squeezes later on

I wonder as well. didn't notice anything else like this either. Maybe it's an isolated accident

[BrianC]

I wonder if the issue was fixed in Rev. A of the Genesis Ghouls 'n Ghosts. How is the hit detection of the X68000 version?

[Xyga]

IDai's SGX port is magnificent (PCB-style bootup sequence, unf unf unfff), though it does have the decided flaw of requiring a SuperGrafx.

Have you noticed many videos of it indicate 'PCE' ? I find it a bit sadistic.

[Ex_Mosquito]

The SGX version is pretty accurate from why I've experienced, all the arcade strats carry over fine. It even goes as far as to include the game 'invisible ladder' bug on the last stage. I can only assume they programmed this in the port on purpose to honour the arcade version. Glitches and all! It was pretty neat that they included that.

*It may be worth testing the 2nd stage skull-toss time out glitch that stops the fire bats from spawning.

[dunpeal2064]

With hitbox detection on, it looks like everything else is in place. Its pretty hilarious how detached the sprite and hitbox of that fireball can get though, to the point where neither are even touching!

having recently fallen for the Midnight Resistance port, and being a long time fan of the Atomic Runner and Vapor Trail ports (Insane ost's in each of course), are there any other Data East MD ports I should take a look at? Two Crude Dudes and Darwin seem to have some potential?

[FinalBaton]

With hitbox detection on, it looks like everything else is in place.

Thanks for the investigation Dunpeal!

[dunpeal2064]

Thanks for the investigation Dunpeal!

Indeed! I'm no expert at the game though, and it wasn't the most thorough investigation. Though that, in combination with watching a few good clears, makes me think that, at most, this incident is very isolated, if not entirely relegated to the fireballs.

[EmperorIng]

I remember someone (maybe trap15) being a fan of Two Crude Dudes, but Darwin on the Genesis only has the potential to be total shit, ha.

Midnight Resistance looks pretty low-grade/kuso at times but it is a fun game.

[BIL]

Crude Buster is well within Midnight Resistance's sphere of quality, imo. I picked up both with Chelnov around the same time, and always considered them an informal DECO/MD trilogy of sorts. Chelnov is undoubtedly the superior work, with a polish and sharpness the endearingly scruffy latter two lack, but you won't go wrong with any of them.

BTW if you end up liking CB's grappling-crazed sidescrolling brawling, you should absolutely play The Ninja Warriors Again (SFC). Similar concept done to perfection.

[BrianC]

Darwin 4081 (port of Super Real Darwin) has some interesting concepts, but fails in execution.

[BIL]

Addendum to my previous post: Crude Buster MD is rad. ¦3 Been a few years and I try to keep my recollections serviceable, so I ended up playing it and Midnight Resistance all evening. Life's good! Technically I'd actually put it between MR and the zenith of Chelnov (naturally enough, with their sequential 1990-1992 release years). Definitely irons out that slight chop; I'd not recalled it handling quite so smoothly.

Mechanically, it's an odd hybrid of precision strikes and crowd-flooring catharsis. Most attacks are good for one (1) target per swing - on top of this, enemies do contact damage, and enjoy considerable invulnerability after every hit taken. Not an inviting proposal, with the masses of onscreen foes! Balancing this, your jumpkick is an unstoppable force; doesn't do much damage, but will flatten the mob and buy you time to bust out the game's ultimate weapon... the outstretched grasping hand of TAKE. On the [A] button by default, enemies as well as anything not nailed down (and some stuff that is) can be wrenched overhead and hurled and/or swung to murderous effect, sending the hordes sprawling. Domination entails careful maneuvering, a spot of crowd herding, and relentless boulder-chucking overkill. Carve a path through the mob to your weapon of choice, then smash 'em to gristle with it.

NEW YORK CITY IS A REAL COOL TOWN

Spoiler

Not a straightforward brawler, but solidly executed in its eccentricity. Recommended for technical violence aficionados who enjoy a little idiosyncrasy. Sidescrolling brawlers are rare to begin with, but even then it's a real one-off, aided by cheerfully goony style.

Speaking of, getting back to grips with Midnight Resistance was a hoot. Slightly floaty performance and rotary-converted controls adjusted to (a snap on both counts, but stick to Type A imo), it's relentless, booming, setpiece-driven action. Along with BLOODY WOLF (PCE), one of my most treasured Real 1980s Action Movie Simulators For 16bit.

CRUEL TANK RUSE FOILED

Spoiler

IRON BIRDIES VS SOLID SOLDIER

Spoiler

Fuuuck, what a rush every time taking down the whole squadron in one shot! And that fucking Sakimoto-arranged soundtrack. BLOODENING.

I'd forgotten how much I like the icy, electric air of the item rooms. That blaring klaxon, the rushing sonic undercurrent and the darkly-lit glass... cool intermission effect. Not to mention the added satisfaction of ROBBING ALL THE BAD GUYS' SHIT OUTTA THEIR LOCKERS with your hard-won keys! Just as cool as the PCB's voiced equivalent in my book.

[dunpeal2064]

Fuuuck, yeah Crude Busters looks great. Very exciting to hear you place it above Midnight Resistance, a game which I am rapidly coming to love despite its shortcomings.

Checked a random review of it about a week back just to see some gameplay, and the fellow stated that the game was impossible to play with Type A controls Its the only control method I enjoy, feels more snappy and destructive than wheeling around.

Curious how you feel about Vapor Trail, BIL. Its another Data East MD port I probably enjoy more than it deserves. But hot damn, if you are only going to write one song and loop it for every stage, that is the song to write (Actually noticing this is a theme, as MR reuses its music as well. I like to think they just wrote such epic music that they said "Fuck it, lets just use this a bunch, its too good)

[BIL]

Very fond of Vapor Trail! It's the fourth DECO port in my MD collection. A bit like MR, it's simple but pacey and destructive, with lots of dramatic scene shifts and extra-chunky machinery to obliterate. The jungle stage was what really sold me on it - the excellent multi-part train chase, followed by a fast-paced silo dogfight, then the prickly laser satellite boss (who emerges from the rocket you've just chased into high orbit). One of my favourite sequences in 16bit shooting... I'd say it's a favourite MD STG to relax with, but I don't think I've actually cleared it yet, haha. The lengthy, relentless final battle rocks - finished me off halfway if I recall.

Hell of a guitar sound. I heard Hitoshi Sakimoto might've handled its audio too, which would explain everything. If there's any stage/boss BGM pairing that can support an entire game, it is indeed the broodingly catchy VT Theme and the scintillating, awesomely titled BLOODY ROAD.

And Popeye The Sailor Man is on announcer duties! "Go fo tha kiw!" "NICE JAARB"

[FinalBaton]

Just checked a longplay of Vapor Trail, as I'm not familiar with the game and seeing you guys stoked about it, I had to check it out.

Holy shit, the music! Super enjoyable stuff. The bass hits damn low notes in the stage theme. Sub is shaking here, and not just a little bit Love the guitar sounds throughout. Kudos for double-kick bass drum barrage and frenetic hammer-on guitar solo in the boss tune. Metal as fuck! *inserts BIL's headbanging emote*

Also the satellite boss music is damn eerie and unsettling, it surprised the heck outta me. Totally comes out of nowhere and puts a screeching halt to your momentum. very creative use of BGM to raise tension.

[BIL]

Also the satellite boss music is damn eerie and unsettling, it surprised the heck outta me. Totally comes out of nowhere and puts a screeching halt to your momentum. very creative use of BGM to raise tension.

Truly outstanding direction - the synergy is perfect, right down to the music that isn't heard. Bloody Road's sudden absence leaves a chilly vacuum to match the scene itself, making its warmthless, arrhythmic replacement more unlovely still. Brings to mind the action game scoring highlight of Strider.

Bizarrely, the mecha sidescroller Wolf Fang is actually Vapor Trail's sequel in the Kuuga trilogy, followed by a return to vertical shooting in Skull Fang. Both of their OSTs are absolutely recommended for fans of VT's sound. Nobody did unashamed, synth-driven power metal heroism quite like DECO's Gama Delic team!

SLAUGHTER MACHINE: DESTROY ("WELCOME TO SCRAP CITY! I'LL SCRAP YOU!")
SKULL FANG (reminds me of PCE-CD's Gate & Winds of Thunder and Sapphire - fans of those should check this out)
BLOODY ROAD (Vapor Trail arranged track! Skull Fang has a few reduxes from the previous Kuugas)

See also THUNDER ZONE, possibly DECO's most balls-out guitar rocking OST. And probably lots more... the first stage BGM of PCE Bloody Wolf is total commie-killing 1980s action catharsis. Dig those chopping intro power chords.

--

Whole lotta Crude Bustin' tonight! Generally a most positive experience! As expected, but as I say it'd been a few years and at the time I was balls-deep in MD collector hell, so I kinda hopped along to the next thing after making sure it wasn't actually a reskinned Cheetahmen.

I highly recommend altering the controls to Attack/Jump/Grab (I do enjoy the control reconfig options in these DECO ports). The default Grab/Attack/Jump had me pianoing the pad. You absolutely want jump in the middle with both attacks either side. Yep, both attacks - grabbing is no mere gimmick. A straight bodyslam is your most powerful unequipped move, and it's frequently a superior option to striking. The BDSM spiderman guys imported from Shinobi, for example, bust out an unstoppable slidekick when they land nearby. Only good strike option is the weak jumpkick, which will merely buffet them back and prolong their annoying hops. Solution = don't let them land to begin with! Grab the fucker out of the air and slam 'em. They probably like it! Gimp suit freaks!

Does whatever a HAADO GAY spider can

Spoiler

Try grabbing Roly Poly man straight out of his annoying rolling attack - much faster and cooler than waiting for him to show his ugly fuckin mug then striking. Very similar dudes in Capcom's Tatakai no Banka, and Mazin Saga on MD, both of which share CB's apocalyptic setting... there's Ninja Gaiden II (NES)'s rollies, too. I wonder what the common inspiration was, if any? Looks straight outta 1970s Tokusatsu. Or maybe some mythology ala Daimakaimura's Kamaitachis? Would make a neat Halloween costume. Probably culturally appropriative too! LOLOL

ROLY POLY-ASS MUHFUCKA

Spoiler

Note also that hitting enemies with their thrown comrades doesn't do much damage. Rather than hitting these chumps with their ride, and having to follow up with another attack, just kill the pilot outright, then impale his passengers with that handy lightpole. Much cooler, and efficient! Cool and efficient violence is what I go for!

TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL Vol.II

Spoiler

At the same time, while busting out grabs at every opportunity, you've gotta have the jumpkick ready to go at a split-second's notice. The game's lack of iframes is cruel, and enemies only need an instant to swamp you. Kicking the shit out of them won't do much damage, but it'll keep them at safe distance while you set up the next slam.

I'm really happy with this game overall, but I do think the handling is a bit strict for a brawler. I'd have tweaked the grab range to be a little more generous - snatching dwarves n' dogs is nervy, and brutally punishing of failure. I'd also ditch the high/low distinction on thrown weapons - shorty type enemies are one thing, but having to crouch to hit st2's hulking bruisers with a big fuckin rock feels petty. Performing the very useful "grab stuff off ledges overhead" move under pressure also takes a bit more muscle memory than is ideal. To avoid an unwanted pull-up (itself a vitally important move - don't fight st2's PRAYING MANTIS DUDE head-on!), you have to hold [UP], hit then quickly release [JUMP], then finally [GRAB] to snatch the item, ready to bash the enemies who've no doubt closed in. Screw up, and you're gonna be in quite the pickle!

MUSCLE GLIP

Spoiler

It's easy with a little practice - the controls are utterly airtight - but again, just a tad more unforgiving than I like in this sort of big, brash action game. I like my brawlers with a little margin for input error ala the buttery-smooth Bare Knuckle II.

OTOH, I'd rather have accurate but slightly finicky controls than forgiving, flawed ones (see the otherwise phenomenal Double Dragon II FC's slight touch of Holy Diver Syndrome Type B)

[Strider77]

BTW, I suck at Jewel Master.....