XRGB-mini Framemeister

[FBX]

Hmm don't all these tests just go to show that the Avermedia capture device just isn't suited for the Mini at all? Makes me wonder how the XCapture would play along..
But regardless, if you remove the capture device altogether and hook the Mini direct to your TV, with default A/D level and outputting HDMI RGB, do you still experience the overblown green and 2 shades?

I get similar results on my Sony 55 inch LCD display directly, though not as blatantly obvious. Nuke greens are still nuke greens in HDMI RGB mode, and messing with A/D still crushes colors.

At any rate, initial testing does confirm that lowering various Brightness/Gamma/Black Levels does in fact restore crushed colors from A/D. However, I could find no combination of settings that gets rid of the nuke green issue in HDMI RGB mode without negatively impacting the other color channels. For example, adjusting "Green" to level 40 gives a perfect 'what it should be' result on the green shades, but then turns pure white into having a purple tinge. There just seems to be no getting around this other than Yipper or DVI mode.

[Shuco13]

At any rate, initial testing does confirm that lowering various Brightness/Gamma/Black Levels does in fact restore crushed colors from A/D.

However, I could find no combination of settings that gets rid of the nuke green issue in HDMI RGB mode without negatively impacting the other color channels.

Feel free to read my explanation from page 261, posted a long time ago: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... l#p1105339
This should at least help understanding the different settings.

[Thomago]

Hey FBX, do you own any of these games?

- Illusion of Gaia
- Secret of Evermore
- F-Zero
- Lufia: Fortress of Doom
- Terranigma (repro)
- Secret of Mana 2 (repro)
- Bahamut Lagoon (repro)

I'd like to reenact the crushed greens/colors problem but unfortunately I don't own Super Mario World...

I tried to reenact the problem with Illusion of Gaia - I thought the grass shown in the following screenshot was prone to getting crushed - but unfortunately even when I ramped A/D-LEVEL all the way up its three green tones were perfectly distinguishable.

[Cosmonal]

@Cosmonal: Uh... it seems your sarcasm detector ist broken.

Detector broken, sorry! (really ^_^)

[Thomago]

Was just thinking... is there any way to define custom output resolutions for the Framemeister?

I'm asking cause both 1920x1080 and 1280x960 are mere compromises:
1920x1080 preserves every bit of horizontal definition and enables widesceen modes, but vertical scaling is either uneven (integer scaling) or unsharp (non-integer scaling).
1280x960 enables perfect vertical scaling for all NTSC sources (even integer scaling by the Mini + upscaling to 1080p by my monitor), but there's a loss of horizontal definition that bothers me.

1920x960 would combine the best of both worlds (I've already made sure that my monitor handles that resolution correctly), but I don't know how and if it's possible to make the Framemeister use that resolution.

[axlblazeadam]

Was just thinking... is there any way to define custom output resolutions for the Framemeister?

I'm asking cause both 1920x1080 and 1280x960 are mere compromises:
1920x1080 preserves every bit of horizontal definition and enables widesceen modes, but vertical scaling is either uneven (integer scaling) or unsharp (non-integer scaling).
1280x960 enables perfect vertical scaling for all NTSC sources (even integer scaling by the Mini + upscaling to 1080p by my monitor), but there's a loss of horizontal definition that bothers me.

1920x960 would combine the best of both worlds (I've already made sure that my monitor handles that resolution correctly), but I don't know how and if it's possible to make the Framemeister use that resolution.

That would be awesome... somebody that has that knowledge should hack the Framemeister firmware and make custom ones.

[FBX]

New profiles update on request:

Code: Select all

Added 5x scale options for analog RGB modded N64 consoles. Fixed previous N64 profiles to have a more white-balanced A/D value of 160. Renamed blurred N64 alternative profiles to have a suffix of "B" instead of "S" to avoid confusion with other profiles where "S" stands for "Sharp".

This rounds out the N64 selections for both 4x and 5x. As for the new A/D setting, I was very careful to make sure colors were not getting crushed and the new value of 160 works quite nicely with my profiles for making sure pure white is actually white instead of light grey.

(note: it may take 10 mins for my web server to update the package. Look for a package date of Feb 7th, 2016)

On the SNES nuke greens issue, I ultimately had to give up. The closest compromise for HDMI direct capture output I could come up with was A/D 127 and Gamma turned all the way down to zero (brightness still at 25).

[Shuco13]

Added 5x scale options for analog RGB modded N64 consoles. Fixed previous N64 profiles to have a more white-balanced A/D value of 160. Renamed blurred N64 alternative profiles to have a suffix of "B" instead of "S" to avoid confusion with other profiles where "S" stands for "Sharp".

I have yet to try your profile but are you sure you're not clipping whites with an A/D value of 160? Honestly I can't recall anymore if it affects white level as well or only the gamma level/"backlight".

[FBX]

Added 5x scale options for analog RGB modded N64 consoles. Fixed previous N64 profiles to have a more white-balanced A/D value of 160. Renamed blurred N64 alternative profiles to have a suffix of "B" instead of "S" to avoid confusion with other profiles where "S" stands for "Sharp".

I have yet to try your profile but are you sure you're not clipping whites with an A/D value of 160? Honestly I can't recall anymore if it affects white level as well or only the gamma level/"backlight".

I did several swing checks in both directions. The N64 is really dark (at least my RGB modded one is), and 160 seemed to be right at the very cusp of getting pure white without clipping. It's quite possible mine doesn't have an RGB internal amp with the mod, so in that case, 160 would likely be too bright for those that do have the amp. Just turn it back down if it looks too bright on your end. In the mean time, I'm going to open my N64 and see exactly how the mod is set up to confirm what's going on in there. I'll update my instructions text if it turns out to be an RGB amp difference.


Anyway, my web site is slow to update, so I made a quicker alternative link:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... efresh.zip

[FBX]

Just finished taking apart my N64, and it does have a THS7314DR amp rigged up.

Also discovered a couple of the new N64 profiles didn't save properly, and so I had to re-upload everything all over again. My apologies.

[rayik]

I have been struggling to dial in settings for Turbografx 16. Started with FBX Genesis profiles (4x320 and 5x320). Really nice screen. Square pixels, perfect scan lines. Just a beautiful picture. However the TG16 screen size must be different than the Genesis. Screen was "shifted" to to the right with three (3) columns of pixels on the left being cut off the screen.

Have been trying to get full image on screen. Wtih 5X able to get both sides of screen fully on using zoom settings. However, top and seven (7) lines of pixels on the bottom are cut off. (I know the top is cut off for several rows due to scaling.) Using zoom settings alone, I could not adjust so that the missing seven bottom rows were on. Used visual settings and able to get bottom of screen on but the scan lines were totally messed up (not even - some lines wider than others). Below is what I was trying to follow to get this done.

Code: Select all

Visual_Set options let you adjust the visible image before it is fed to the Zoom function. I recently discovered this was very useful for setting up a 'mask' around the visible graphics of a console's video feed in order to hide overscan colored borders (as in my Genesis and NES NTSC profiles). So what I'd do is adjust those Visual-Set options until colored borders were perfectly blacked out, then I'd use the ZOOM settings to adjust the size and shape of the remaining image (giving it correct aspect ratio and scaling). It's difficult and tedious guess work that took me several hours just to do the Genesis and NES profiles, so there's no easy guide to it. At any rate, here's a quick description breakdown:

VISUAL_SET>H_POS (allows you to center the image horizontally before it is sent to the Zoom function. Use this in conjunction with H_Width)
VISUAL_SET>V_POS (allows you to center the image vertically before it is sent to the Zoom function. Use this in conjunction with V_Width)
VISUAL_SET>H_WIDTH (allows you to adjust the width horizontally before it is sent to the zoom function. This is useful for blocking out overscan borders.)
VISUAL_SET>V_WIDTH (allows you to adjust the width vertically before it is sent to the zoom function. This is useful for blocking out overscan borders.)

ZOOM_SET>ZOOM_H_POS (allows you to center the image horizontally after Zoom is turned on. This is useful if the image is not centered after adjusting Zoom_Size and Zoom_Overscan.)
ZOOM_SET>ZOOM_V_POS (allows you to center the image vertically after Zoom is turned on. This is useful if the image is not centered after adjusting Zoom_Size and Zoom_Overscan.)
ZOOM_SET>ZOOM_WIDTH (allows you to adjust the aspect ratio manually after Zoom is turned on. This is useful if the image is too wide or too skinny.)
ZOOM_SET>ZOOM_OVERSCAN (allows you to shrink the image while still holding the black border around it. This is useful for dialing in integer-based scaling in conjunction with Zoom_Size)

Just a few hours with this shows how much work FBX put into his profiles. I would appreciate any guidance on work flow I should follow.

I'd attach the wip TG16 profiles but my posting screen does not have that option.

Thanks for any help.


@@@@@@@

EDIT
It appears the output resolution can vary. The majority of games use 256×239. A small amount of games use 512 x 224.

[FBX]

I have been struggling to dial in settings for Turbografx 16.

EDIT
It appears the output resolution can vary. The majority of games use 256×239. A small amount of games use 512 x 224.

The Genesis profiles are masked, and that makes them very hard to work with as a template. I'd start off with something simple, like leaving the Visual_Set positions and widths at their defaults and only work on Zoom settings. Often times it's not possible to dial in perfect integer scaling with just the Zoom settings, and you end up having to mix in V_Width in the Visual_Set options. My current method to determining perfect scaling is to turn on scanlines after each adjustment. If even one scanline is off, then it's not perfect and I keep trying different setting combinations. It's sort of like figuring out the combination on a 3-digit lock, only at least you know you're getting close instead of having to try all possible combinations. Still though, it's not user-friendly.

One feature request I would like to see is an "Integer_Scale" option in the Zoom settings, where you would simply enter a value between 1 and 9, and this would auto-scale the image. Then it would be a simple matter of adjusting Zoom_Width to get the AR you want. Then anyone could make their own custom profiles fairly easily. That combined with a new Masking feature instead of having to fidget with Visual_Set options would be the ultimate in user-friendliness.

[Thomago]

Ha, user friendlyness. Before I got the Framemeister, I was using PC capture cards for console gaming (I never owned a TV). Being PC based, there were plenty of settings to be fiddled with, including zoom settings. And what were these settings based on? Percentages!
100% = no zoom applied, 200% applied to both the x and the y axis = zoomed to twice the size... easy and intuitive.

To put than into perspective: To make PAL bars disappear, I had to painstakingly determine the following settings:

ZOOM_SIZE = 90
ZOOM_V_POS = 8
ZOOM_WIDTH = 72
V_WIDTH = 53

With a percentage-based zoom setting, all I would've had to do to get the same effect would have been to set the y axis' zoom setting to 120%.

[jarop]

Hi all
I've been banging my head against the wall trying to solve what is probably a really basic issue with my XRGB-mini. I went from running my mini straight from HDMI out -> TV to running it through a 4x2 splitter, and through that 4x2 splitter I am no longer getting any output. Other outputs I've tried through said splitter are a Wii U and a PS3. As expected, the Wii U works fine through the splitter and the PS3 needs a 2x1 splitter to strip the HDCP first before it works. My issue is that for some reason the XRGB needs to go through the 2x1 splitter to get any signal out through the 4x2 splitter. I'm on v2.02 and according to "full status" HDCP is set to on and I'm assuming that has something to do with it. I've been looking at this (http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf) OSD chart and I cannot for the life of me work out how to toggle HDCP off, if that's even the problem to begin with.

Can anybody shed some light on this issue? Apologies if it's something basic. I've been hacking away at it for a couple of weeks with no luck

Just an update here, I tried with a friend's unit and on this setup it worked fine. We are both on the same firmware (1.11, I tried downgrading for argument's sake) and I checked literally every setting, the only difference is his PCB is 1.2 and mine is 1.3

I'm not sure what else to try at this point!

[FBX]

It may very well be HDCP. It could be that it's a fluke the previous board revision doesn't kick it in on your friend's Framemeister.

Do me a favor, try your Framemeister without anything hooked into it and have it go directly to the 4x2 splitter. If it works, and the full status shows HDCP as off for both input and output, then you'll know for sure that's the problem.

[jarop]

It may very well be HDCP. It could be that it's a fluke the previous board revision doesn't kick it in on your friend's Framemeister.

Do me a favor, try your Framemeister without anything hooked into it and have it go directly to the 4x2 splitter. If it works, and the full status shows HDCP as off for both input and output, then you'll know for sure that's the problem.

1.3 board (mine) w/ no stripper (straight to 4x2) = no good
1.3 board w/ stripper (1x2 -> 4x2) = good
1.2 board (friend's) w/ no stripper (straight to 4x2) = good
1.2 board w/ no stripper (1x2 -> 4x2) = good

HDCP is listed as off for both, looks like I'm probably boned

[FBX]

It may very well be HDCP. It could be that it's a fluke the previous board revision doesn't kick it in on your friend's Framemeister.

Do me a favor, try your Framemeister without anything hooked into it and have it go directly to the 4x2 splitter. If it works, and the full status shows HDCP as off for both input and output, then you'll know for sure that's the problem.

1.3 board (mine) w/ no stripper (straight to 4x2) = no good
1.3 board w/ stripper (1x2 -> 4x2) = good
1.2 board (friend's) w/ no stripper (straight to 4x2) = good
1.2 board w/ no stripper (1x2 -> 4x2) = good

HDCP is listed as off for both, looks like I'm probably boned

Weird that it wouldn't work even with HDCP turned off. So somehow it's still sending an HDCP flag when it shouldn't, and your 1x2 stripper is removing it. If I may ask, what's the exact brand and model of your 4x2?

[jarop]

Weird that it wouldn't work even with HDCP turned off. So somehow it's still sending an HDCP flag when it shouldn't, and your 1x2 stripper is removing it. If I may ask, what's the exact brand and model of your 4x2?

Purchased off eBay at a friend's recommendation (who previous used it for a PC + PS3 via a 1x2): http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331525098158 ... EBIDX%3AIT

[Elrinth]

Anyone have a tip on how to get the framemeister to sync faster? I'm playing Dracula X: Symphony of the Night on Saturn-J. Heading in and out of the inventory is annoying, it takes forever to resync. I'm playing on my fat CRT, and streaming out to my viewers via the framemeister. The AverMedia ExtremeCap U3 has very very short delay, but the framemeister resync takes too many seconds. They rarely get to see the inventory screen

[FBX]

Anyone have a tip on how to get the framemeister to sync faster? I'm playing Dracula X: Symphony of the Night on Saturn-J. Heading in and out of the inventory is annoying, it takes forever to resync. I'm playing on my fat CRT, and streaming out to my viewers via the framemeister. The AverMedia ExtremeCap U3 has very very short delay, but the framemeister resync takes too many seconds. They rarely get to see the inventory screen

The only way to get faster sync times is to turn sync from auto to off. This will introduce frame-skipping though, so you give up one annoyance for another.

[Rongolian]

Cross-posting from the GAF thread, hoping someone here might be able to help

I've had a problem with the Framemeister for a while and I am hoping someone can help me nail down what's going on!

Periodically my Framemeister "loses sync," but more specifically, it goes black for a few moments, the "Input Link" light on the unit goes out, the screen shows nothing, and then the screen returns to normal.

The problem is, this happens with all of my consoles, and happens pretty frequently. It seems to happen in bursts, like one dropout happens, and a few more happen within the next minute, and it can make playing certain games almost impossible.

I've tried messing with the sync settings, turning the level up and down, but nothing has really fixed it.

I thought maybe there was some setting on my TV that could be causing it, but I couldn't find anything for HDMI settings.

To make things even weirder, this happens when there is no console even giving signal to the Framemeister. Like, if I leave it on with just a blue screen for a while, I'll notice that it periodically does the same thing, screen goes black for 3-5 seconds, "Input Link" goes out, then comes back.

Anyone have any idea what could be causing this?! Thanks

[Midnight Milkshake]

Jarop, I have that matrix and my FM with the 1.2 version works without problems, so it might be the board

[zakruowrath]

So, I fixed my Sega CD by putting a new belt in on the drive and wanted to test it. I've been meaning to recap all three of my systems for awile now (Genesis,CD,32x) but have put it off, however after seeing this, I wanted to ask, is this due to capacitors or a bad SCART cable or both? I'm guessing the cable is using composite sync since I can see jailbar lines all across the screen, but there's also ghosting, which I've never seen till now.

[rayik]

I've been using an rgb modded Turbografx16 a lot. I've read all 303 pages of this thread twice and have cut and pasted notes. I am still struggling with adjusting settings.

TG16 horizontal resolution can vary between 282, 377 or 565. I started with FBX Genesis profiles and tweaked them a bit. I think I have square pixels. I am happy with the picture they produce in 1080p with scan lines. Here those TG16 profiles:

TG164X
TG165X

I prefer the 5x setting

[FBX]

I've been using an rgb modded Turbografx16 a lot. I've read all 303 pages of this thread twice and have cut and pasted notes. I am still struggling with adjusting settings.

TG16 horizontal resolution can vary between 282, 377 or 565. I started with FBX Genesis profiles and tweaked them a bit. I think I have square pixels. I am happy with the picture they produce in 1080p with scan lines. Here those TG16 profiles:

TG164X
TG165X

I prefer the 5x setting

Do they pass the scanline test? That's how you'll know you've nailed it. If even one scanline is off, it's not kosher and you have to keep trying (at least that's my current philosophy).

[rayik]

Do they pass the scanline test? That's how you'll know you've nailed it. If even one scanline is off, it's not kosher and you have to keep trying (at least that's my current philosophy).

Scanlines are good. However the screen is slightly too wide. I'm going to try to adjust it more.

[Thomago]

That's how you'll know you've nailed it. If even one scanline is off, it's not kosher and you have to keep trying (at least that's my current philosophy).

This reminds me of the time Micomsoft introduced the Zoom function. I wanted to get rid of PAL bars, and by tinkering with the Zoom function and the Framemeister's WIDTH settings I managed to generate something that looked exactly like the NTSC version of the same game (see link - the adhesive tape helped there).

http://imgur.com/a/daZGN

I was pleasantly suprised to see that I actually managed to find the exactly right settings when I switched to 960p and applied scanlines for the first time.

[FBX]

That's how you'll know you've nailed it. If even one scanline is off, it's not kosher and you have to keep trying (at least that's my current philosophy).

This reminds me of the time Micomsoft introduced the Zoom function. I wanted to get rid of PAL bars, and by tinkering with the Zoom function and the Framemeister's WIDTH settings I managed to generate something that looked exactly like the NTSC version of the same game (see link - the adhesive tape helped there).

http://imgur.com/a/daZGN

I was pleasantly suprised to see that I actually managed to find the exactly right settings when I switched to 960p and applied scanlines for the first time.

LOL tape on the screen! I do the same tape trick on my screen when adjusting zoom. Typically, I'll first put the game in Smart2X mode and then put tape on the top and bottom of the active graphics. That gives me a clue as to the general height the image needs to be when I start customizing the zoom settings. Then of course I turn scanlines on to make sure they are all uniform. I remember when I first started doing profiles, I didn't think to check scanlines, and so it would appear to be kosher until later finding out that one scanline in the middle is too fat or thin (like what happened with my old XBoX profiles).

[rayik]

That's how you'll know you've nailed it. If even one scanline is off, it's not kosher and you have to keep trying (at least that's my current philosophy).

This reminds me of the time Micomsoft introduced the Zoom function. I wanted to get rid of PAL bars, and by tinkering with the Zoom function and the Framemeister's WIDTH settings I managed to generate something that looked exactly like the NTSC version of the same game (see link - the adhesive tape helped there).

http://imgur.com/a/daZGN

I was pleasantly suprised to see that I actually managed to find the exactly right settings when I switched to 960p and applied scanlines for the first time.

LOL tape on the screen! I do the same tape trick on my screen when adjusting zoom. Typically, I'll first put the game in Smart2X mode and then put tape on the top and bottom of the active graphics. That gives me a clue as to the general height the image needs to be when I start customizing the zoom settings. Then of course I turn scanlines on to make sure they are all uniform. I remember when I first started doing profiles, I didn't think to check scanlines, and so it would appear to be kosher until later finding out that one scanline in the middle is too fat or thin (like what happened with my old XBoX profiles).

That's what I've been doing. Generic profile, 720p, Smart2x mode and painters tape.

I can't figure out why scanline options are sometime greyed out. Sometimes it's int_line and int_smooth greyed out (with others available). Other times those two are available and the rest greyed out. I haven't figured out why.

Also adjusting scan lines is something I hven't figured out very well. I feel like I'm doing random pushing buttons with no real plan.

[Fudoh]

There are two different types of scanline rendering. On the earlier FW revisions these were called type A and type B. The simpler type is used when the output resolution is an integer multiple of the input, e.g. 240p input and 720p output. Here you get to adjust the scanlines intensity for just a single type of line. On other combinations (240p to 1080p with standard zoom mode) you get the other type. Here you get two types of scanlines which are displayed alternating and you can adjust their intensity indepently.