Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Squire Grooktook]

IMO Run and Gun is a hybrid sub-genre of shmups and platfoormers, factorable under both in the same way an arpg could be factored under both action and rpg. They have the same focus (dodging and shooting) and are also arcade style games (why I wouldn't call something like Mega Man run and gun). Semantics, I know, but it makes sense to me (if not to anybody else).

[Skykid]

^ I disagree, I consider them two distinct genres.

[xxx1993]

And what about light gun games?

[d3vak]

^ I disagree, I consider them two distinct genres.

Yeah, I agree. Because maybe then some would say that Megaman and Metroid are shmups too.

[Shepardus]

And what about light gun games?

Not shmups either, they play completely differently despite both genres revolving around shooting stuff.

[Giest118]

Shoo Ting Game.

What we play are Shoo Ting Games.

[/helpful]

[Skykid]

And what about light gun games?

Is this a serious question?

[EmperorIng]

I think a semi-decent related question is what is Syvalion? It's often considered a borderliner, and I -guess- it revolves around shooting and dodging, to a degree. But the game is so strange that it is definitely not pure Shoo Ting. Urutra Maze Racing Shoo Tingu Game-o.

[DestroyTheCore]

Also, I do consider Metal Slug and Contra to be shmups, even though it's mostly on foot.

More like mix 'em up...

[Squire Grooktook]

^ I disagree, I consider them two distinct genres.

Yeah, I agree. Because maybe then some would say that Megaman and Metroid are shmups too.

Mentioned this already. Not arcade styled.

[xxx1993]

And what about light gun games?

Is this a serious question?

I thought light gun games were like shmups, too.

[Strikers1945guy]

And what about light gun games?

Time Crisis 4 best shmup of all time.

[xxx1993]

And what about light gun games?

Time Crisis 4 best shmup of all time.

I like the entire Time Crisis series, actually.

[Skykid]

I like the entire Time Crisis series, actually.

He's taking the piss.

Lightgun games are not shmups.

[Stevens]

I've always felt one thing separated run n' gun from shmups -

Scrolling.

Run n' guns don't auto scroll, shmups do.

That is how I've always differentiated. With that in mind - In the Hunt is a run n' gun ?!

Thoughts?

[Squire Grooktook]

Some top down shooters without autoscrolling, like Mercs and Kiki Kakai are considered shmups as well.

[copy-paster]

When I play G-Darius on recent MAME version I set the difficulty on "Super Easy" instead on "Normal" mode, but I felt the difficulty hasn't changed cause the enemy and bullet patterns (especially the bosses) are just same on Normal mode. I change to Easy and Very Easy and just same no difference.

Is this game was set like this, or it's just a ROM error issues ?
PS : I haven't played the PSX and PC port since there was some slowdown issues in some stages

[Despatche]

^ I disagree, I consider them two distinct genres.

Yeah, I agree. Because maybe then some would say that Megaman and Metroid are shmups too.

and those people would be silly, because mega man and metroid place far more emphasis on platforming than shooting. meanwhile, contra and metal slug are games that put way more emphasis on shooting than on platforming. it's not that they're "arcade-styled" or not; think of any platform-heavy arcade game that has you shoot a projectile, such as ghosts'n goblins. though ghosts'n goblins has even more shooting than mega man at times... as you can see, the real problem is having subgenres like "shmup" at all. play all arcade games, not just some.

[Squire Grooktook]

IMO Ghouls and Ghosts has just as much shooting emphasis as Contra/Metal Slug. You need to be shooting constantly to avoid getting rushed by enemies.

[xxx1993]

Fine, fine, they aren't shmups.

[Skykid]

^ I disagree, I consider them two distinct genres.

Yeah, I agree. Because maybe then some would say that Megaman and Metroid are shmups too.

and those people would be silly, because mega man and metroid place far more emphasis on platforming than shooting. meanwhile, contra and metal slug are games that put way more emphasis on shooting than on platforming. it's not that they're "arcade-styled" or not; think of any platform-heavy arcade game that has you shoot a projectile, such as ghosts'n goblins. though ghosts'n goblins has even more shooting than mega man at times... as you can see, the real problem is having subgenres like "shmup" at all. play all arcade games, not just some.

I never consdiered Shmups a subgenre, just a genre. Run & Guns and Action platform games are also two independent genres, although they walk a finer line of similarity with each other than either do to shmups.

Run & Guns have places where you're avoiding bullet patterns that have similar properties to shmups, but the way they're approached feels distinct to me. Someone mentioned they don't put emphasis on platforms, but they do put emphasis on having the player break down stage layout section by section, even if that means avoiding two missiles before leaping over stack of tyres. If we're boiling gaming down to grassroots similarities, then it's easy to pick out properties that blur the entire index into recycled components somewhere or another.

Shock Troopers, Mercs, Kikikaiai, Twinkle Tale etc still aren't what I'd strictly consider shmups because they don't force scroll and they often require you to stop and make tactical use of the environment. Elemental Master and Undeadline on the other hand basically just change ships for men with legs and chuck a lot of scenery obstacles at you, so they qualify.

[CStarFlare]

Here's one I've struggled with: Granada. I've had a request to add it to Restart Syndrome and I've been resisting, but I can't make myself feel I have an airtight argument against it - almost like it's a top-down equivalent to Fantasy Zone. I used the same comparison to justify Kiki Kaikai to myself. but Granada feels different, if only because it's a little more "open world."

[Squire Grooktook]

Run & Guns have places where you're avoiding bullet patterns that have similar properties to shmups, but the way they're approached feels distinct to me.

I guess this is just what it comes down to. I just "feel" the similarities more than not.

[BulletMagnet]

When I play G-Darius on recent MAME version I set the difficulty on "Super Easy" instead on "Normal" mode, but I felt the difficulty hasn't changed cause the enemy and bullet patterns (especially the bosses) are just same on Normal mode. I change to Easy and Very Easy and just same no difference.

This is just a guess, but perhaps each setting starts at roughly the same point, but the rank increases faster on higher difficulties; someone more versed in Darius than I am would have to verify that, though.

[Skykid]

Here's one I've struggled with: Granada. I've had a request to add it to Restart Syndrome and I've been resisting, but I can't make myself feel I have an airtight argument against it - almost like it's a top-down equivalent to Fantasy Zone. I used the same comparison to justify Kiki Kaikai to myself. but Granada feels different, if only because it's a little more "open world."

Granada is a top down action game with maze layout elements and map strategy requirements. If there was a genre defined simply as 'arcade action' that housed the more unique, miscellaneous ones like this, that would help.

Personally I'd be strict about what qualifies as a shmup because I like to keep things neat: but you will need to exercise your own judgment as host.

[Immryr]

how come in the first level of darius gaiden if i collect all of the weapon power ups it takes me almost twice as long to kill the boss as when i deliberately miss one of them, leaving me with the 3 blobs weapon?!?

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ Rank in Gaiden is funny. It powers up bosses significantly past certain thresholds. You're better off fighting a boss with your weapon meter half way or almost filled, instead of starting anew after filling it up and powering up to a new empty guage.

That being said, contrary to what some people have said, I personally feel that rank control via power ups is more trouble than it's worth. Most routes give you enough power ups to avoid those weird boss hp issues when the rank increases. The main fear is recovering if you die, but you'll want to be 1lc'ing the majority of a Darius game to get fully powered up if you want to 1cc them anyway.

[EmperorIng]

If you are playing the Saturn port, set two of the buttons next to one another as shot, and rapidly alternate between them for quicker boss kills. Or if you are scrubbin', use the auto cheat.

[Bananamatic]

how come in the first level of darius gaiden if i collect all of the weapon power ups it takes me almost twice as long to kill the boss as when i deliberately miss one of them, leaving me with the 3 blobs weapon?!?

if you're using autofire the non-piercing shots do way more damage at point blank due to the bullet limit

[Squire Grooktook]

If you are playing the Saturn port, set two of the buttons next to one another as shot, and rapidly alternate between them for quicker boss kills. Or if you are scrubbin', use the auto cheat.

If in Mame, autofire is fine IMO so long as it's not the maxed out, game breaking "kill bosses before they can use half their attacks" that a lot of people use.