XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Ripthorn]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how I can load these profiles.

EDIT: I should be more specific, I put the files in the SD Card root but the mini does not find the profiles.
The files should be in another location?

You put the profiles in the EEPDATA file not the Xrgb root file. Once you put the mini SD card back in you then have to do a double reboot for the mini to recognize them.

Thanks

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how I can load these profiles.

EDIT: I should be more specific, I put the files in the SD Card root but the mini does not find the profiles.
The files should be in another location?

If you read the text file called "Instructions" in the zip package, there's a step-by-step guide for saving and loading profiles. You'll need the micro version SD card as regular SD is of course too big.

Here's the excerpt from the instructions text:

8. To use someone else's profile you downloaded from the Internet, simply place the BIN file in the "EEPDATA" folder on the microSD card.

9. Now place the microSD card back into the turned off Framemeister & double-reboot the Framemeister (this means booting the Framemeister, letting it reach ready status, powering it off, and booting it again). This has to be done because a single reboot fails to recognize the microSD card.

Sorry, I read the readme fast and didn't see this part
I tried your profiles (GEN and SNES 5x) and seems pretty good, the only problem for me is the aspect ratio, seems a little bit off.
I have tried to calibrate using screen set and zoom set options, but the image looks like shit after calibration.
Is there any other way to solve this or should I return to 720p?

EDIT: Problem solved. a reboot fixed the problem. Wierd.

[rhydin]

The cable I got was the "sync boosted" JP-21 RGB cable offered from retro_console_accessories, and it works flawlessly. Perhaps you need one of those? Unfortunately their store is down right now, but they usually come back up every few days.

I just bought this cable; http://www.ebay.com/itm/201260139834?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT , think it will work?

I can confirm I get this issue as well. However I have a slightly different setup
I have a PAL SMS 1, which has been modded to with a 50/60hz switch. At 50Hz my console works correctly with the XRGB Mini. However if I switch it to 60hz I get these exact issues. From what I have read it's a timing issue. On my Sony PVM my 60hz mod works correctly

This is depressing. Does this mean there's no fix for my Genesis with the Framemeister? Does this mean it's a timing/sync issue with my Panasonic television set's processing capability?

[FBX]

The cable I got was the "sync boosted" JP-21 RGB cable offered from retro_console_accessories, and it works flawlessly. Perhaps you need one of those? Unfortunately their store is down right now, but they usually come back up every few days.

I just bought this cable; http://www.ebay.com/itm/201260139834?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT , think it will work?

That's the one I have (with the coaxial upgrade). As long as you have an NTSC Genesis, it should work unless there's something physically wrong with your hardware. You mentioned a Panasonic TV, so I don't have any experience with those. I've been a Sony man since the days of the Trinitrons in the early '90s.

[Smashbro29]

Hey FBX, which games did you use for your PS1/2 and Gamecube profiles? I'd like to test against them and get the measurements I need.

[creamygarlicdip]

where did you guys get your xrgb units? also did you buy them new or used?

I was looking at getting one but the prices ive seen are pretty steep!

[pyrotek85]

where did you guys get your xrgb units? also did you buy them new or used?

I was looking at getting one but the prices ive seen are pretty steep!

I got mine at Solaris Japan (http://solarisjapan.com/), which is often recommended here too.

[FBX]

Hey FBX, which games did you use for your PS1/2 and Gamecube profiles? I'd like to test against them and get the measurements I need.

For PS1 on the PS2:

First I used Suikoden to make sure the pixels were uniform. Then I used Resident Evil to make sure the color settings were adjusted properly as well as aspect width.

For PS2 native games:

I tested several games like SSX 3 (for both 480p and 16:9 modes), Silent Hill 2, Tekken Tag Tournament, FF X, and Capcom vs SNK2. In all these games, the centering was entirely different. As such, no set zoom mode would work. So what I did was mimic "Standard" using the Zoom function such that there would be room to accommodate all the different game centerings.

For Gamecube:

I used Wind Waker to determine the max borders, and then I also checked centering with Metroid Prime. I'll be doing work on 16:9 mode when F-Zero GX arrives in the mail next week.

[Smashbro29]

For PS1 on the PS2:

First I used Suikoden to make sure the pixels were uniform. Then I used Resident Evil to make sure the color settings were adjusted properly as well as aspect width.

For PS2 native games:

I tested several games like SSX 3 (for both 480p and 16:9 modes), Silent Hill 2, Tekken Tag Tournament, FF X, and Capcom vs SNK2. In all these games, the centering was entirely different. As such, no set zoom mode would work. So what I did was mimic "Standard" using the Zoom function such that there would be room to accommodate all the different game centerings.

For Gamecube:

I used Wind Waker to determine the max borders, and then I also checked centering with Metroid Prime. I'll be doing work on 16:9 mode when F-Zero GX arrives in the mail next week.

Thanks, I'm gonna have to find some of these. I'm so excited to have it all nice and set up.

[Hoagtech]

A nice modern day treat me and my bros use the meister for is Goldeneye on the 64. I paid 59 bucks on ebay to have them install a ti RGB amp. The framemeister is able to stretch the image to the edges of my 16:9 panel and goldeneye and perfect dark both have 16:9 modes.

I never even thought about widescreen settings growing up and I'm so glad the developers decided to put them in games before widescreen was standard.

Complex license to kill, no radar, no auto assist. 4 player. REAL

[jessiewonka]

This is depressing. Does this mean there's no fix for my Genesis with the Framemeister? Does this mean it's a timing/sync issue with my Panasonic television set's processing capability?

Every console I've tried (12?) works fine with a Panasonic TC-P55VT60 (plasma) and XRGB-mini.

[Ripthorn]

I was experimenting adding some scanlines to XBLA games tonight but no matter what I do I can't get the Mini to pass through any audio at all through HDMI to my amp, is this something that just doesn't work or what?

I hooked my mini on my tv and the tv is hooked on receiver through optical cable. This setup works fine for me.
The only problem I've found so far, is that sometimes the mini decides to output dolby digital instead of PCM. This is very strange, I thought the mini was not compatible with Dolby Digital.

If you own a Xbox 360S model, you can hook the optical out directly on your receiver.

[BuckoA51]

If you own a Xbox 360S model, you can hook the optical out directly on your receiver.

I do, but routing the cable would be too much of a pain.

I tried the Xbox in LPCM and DD mode and got "NO STREAM" both ways. I could understand Dolby Digital not working but regular 2 channel LPCM should have done. Oh well.

[MMJuno]

I have recently been using:

PS3 -> Mini -> Receiver -> TV

via HDMI, and I get audio.


(Normally, I wouldn't have the PS3 running through the mini, but I've been catching up on a few PSOne Classics lately that I missed the first time around).

Edit: BTW, I haven't updated to the latest beta FW yet, so not sure if that may be an issue?

[lettuce]

So you get integer scale with x4 and x5 with FBX profiles?, theres no way to get the display to fill the vertical and get even scanlines?

Correct. The scanlines only line up if you have correctly scaled pixels (i.e. 4x and 5x). The 5x should not only fill your screen, but actually cut off 4 pixels from the top and bottom. Since the 5x mode is obviously working properly for others that have tried it, there must be something strange about your setup. After you load the profile, double-check the ZOOM function and make sure it's set to "ON", and of course make sure you're outputting 1080p HDMI to a 1080p display.

Ah yeah Zoom mode was off. What should the Zoom_Size setting be set at? As i have just tried Jaki Crush on the SNES and the title screen as a good amount of the title text cut off at the top.....

[FBX]

So you get integer scale with x4 and x5 with FBX profiles?, theres no way to get the display to fill the vertical and get even scanlines?

Correct. The scanlines only line up if you have correctly scaled pixels (i.e. 4x and 5x). The 5x should not only fill your screen, but actually cut off 4 pixels from the top and bottom. Since the 5x mode is obviously working properly for others that have tried it, there must be something strange about your setup. After you load the profile, double-check the ZOOM function and make sure it's set to "ON", and of course make sure you're outputting 1080p HDMI to a 1080p display.

Ah yeah Zoom mode was off. What should the Zoom_Size setting be set at? As i have just tried Jaki Crush on the SNES and the title screen as a good amount of the title text cut off at the top

Make sure your TV is set to "Full Pixel" or whatever your brand calls it when the display is set to 1:1 pixel ratio for 1080p signals. I believe SNES 5x was ZOOM_SIZE: 90 and ZOOM_OVERSCAN: 100 if I recall correctly.

Edit: Just checked and Jaki Crush displays the English title at the VERY TOP of the image. You're going to lose at minimum 4 pixels off the top of that text unless you use 4x mode.

[lettuce]

Make sure your TV is set to "Full Pixel" or whatever your brand calls it when the display is set to 1:1 pixel ratio for 1080p signals. I believe SNES 5x was ZOOM_SIZE: 90 and ZOOM_OVERSCAN: 100 if I recall correctly.

Edit: Just checked and Jaki Crush displays the English title at the VERY TOP of the image. You're going to lose at minimum 4 pixels off the top of that text unless you use 4x mode.

Ah, that just seemed a bit more than 4 pixels thats all. Check the TV and it is set to Full Pixel setting

As i have just updated to the new Firmware is there any other options i need to set bar zoom mode on and 1080p60?

[FBX]

Looks like it's correct there. Here's a comparison of the original graphics on the left, and what gets cut off in 5x mode:



You can download my profiles found in my sig link, and use those instead of having to set everything manually.

[lettuce]

Looks like it's correct there. Here's a comparison of the original graphics on the left, and what gets cut off in 5x mode:



You can download my profiles found in my sig link, and use those instead of having to set everything manually.

Maybe ill try x4 mode and see what that looks like.

Im still not sure if i like the look of the scanlines @1080p they just seem to thin and strong, has anyone manage to find a setting that makes them more soft looking and not so strong

[FBX]

Maybe ill try x4 mode and see what that looks like.

Im still not sure if i like the look of the scanlines @1080p they just seem to thin and strong, has anyone manage to find a setting that makes them more soft looking and not so strong

Then you'll like 4x a lot more because the scanlines appear thicker there. When you try 4x, you can minimize the black borders by changing your TV's screen mode from "Full Pixel" to "-1" (that's what my Sony calls it anyway).

My preferred scanline settings for 4x are INT_LINE: 80 and INT_SMOOTH:110

[ultrageranium]

I just flashed 2.00 and tried the new LOAD/SAVE functionality using FBX Genesis presets on my model 1 Mega Drive, I'll probably see if any further fine tuning is necessary using the 240p test suite, but it looked already super nice! Thanks A LOT for sharing these presets!

If everyone is happy with FBX profiles, it could be useful to have them listed there at some point, for more visibility and future reference.

As for the mysterious overlay function, I think it's an emulation of the so-called screen overlays to enhance consoles that generate monochrome video signals (think overlays for the Vectrex or found in some old arcade cabinets). As a matter of fact, the Japanese menu and the Japanese Changelog of the firmware refer to "CELLOPHANE" for this new function, then they have translated it to overlay in the English firmware.

[Smashbro29]

2 years ago I saw this: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43992

This seems like an optimal setup, SCART as a plug is terrible and reliable switches for it don't exist.

Since then I've been on and off (mostly off) working out how to adapt this to a setup for upscaling using the framemeister. I did ask about this back then but that was then, there may have been advancements that change things.

I figure first off I can ignore all the stuff about TV tuning and converting the end to component.

Next would be checking if I had c-sync on my existing cables/consoles (doing whatever mod is necessary i.e. PS1) and ensuring all future cables are c-sync as well. I wonder if doing so will make working on the switches less work or no work at all.

I'd have to swap the heads off the cables and get the emotia to force 240p on command.

The Dreamcast seems to have gotten advancements, I've been eyeing the toro but his cable seems to do the same thing.

For everything up to the PS2-era I can use his method but once we get there I think it would be easier and have more utility to deviate.

The move seems to be to get regular component put it through a switch and convert the out from that switch to one of these custom cables (PS2/GC/etc-switch-component out-converter?), not only do I not have to use the mini's awful component input or chop up expensive cables like the Gamecube one this also frees up space in the switches and allows me to put it earlier in the chain, potentially even allowing all 5 games that go above 480p to work.

I could be wrong about all of this, I'm not an expert. I'm hoping by laying out my plan I can get feedback and maybe even make a template anyone with a mini can use.

I am doing this, I am completing the setup. I am determined to have it all perfect. You know it's serious because "determined" is in bold.

[broken harbour]

I posted this earlier, but it got buried by other posts, so apologies for repeating myself but I'm curious what more knowledgeable people think about this:

Is anyone using one of the RCS Euro scart w/sync stripper adapters? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB- ... 25a0dfb126

I'm having an issue with my PS1 and N64 occasionally dropping out and then coming back, but the handshake takes about 6-10 seconds, even when I fiddle with the sync level. I'm also having an issue with a RGB modified PC Engine not displaying, I get audio thru scart but no video, however I do get video over composite. The cable appears to be wired correctly.

Would a sync stripper help with that? Do I run the risk of producing new issues with consoles that work perfectly? (SNES, Saturn, etc...)

[FBX]

F-Zero GX arrived in the mail today, and I must admit I'm quite impressed with the graphics and presentation for a 12-year-old game!

I've developed a 480p widescreen profile specifically for this game. It's important to read the following details:

FZGXWIDE:

This is a specially calibrated 16:9 image meant for progessive scan 16:9 mode on the Nintendo Gamecube game "F-Zero GX". Please read the following guidelines when using this profile:

1. Your display MUST be set to "Full Pixel" (or whatever your brand of HDTV calls it when you turn off any sort of zooming/overscan done by it).

2. Remember to set the Gamecube to progressive scan mode. This is done by holding down the B button while the game boots up. You'll get prompt asking if you want to change to progressive scan mode. When you accept it, the screen will blank momentarily while the Framemeister re-establishes the new mode on your display.

3. Remember that profiles do not save whether or not ZOOM is turned on, so make sure that it is either before or after you load this profile.

4. The centering settings may not be perfectly aligned on your HDTV. If such is the case, you'll need to navigate to "VISUAL_SET" in the Framemeister menu and adjust "H_POS" and "V_POS" until the image is exactly aligned on your HDTV. I find this is easier to do in the game's option screens where you get a fixed border to check with.

5. Do not mess with any width or height settings. They have already been calibrated to exactly match a 1920x1080 screen at "Full Pixel" 1:1 ratio.


Here's the updated zip package link:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... ofiles.zip

[Fudoh]

Have you adressed this issue ? http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1103529

[FBX]

Have you adressed this issue ? http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1103529

I had worked on that and came up with H_SCALER 10 and V_SCALER 5, and then the trick was to actually use "SHARPNESS" and change it to a value of 2 (normally SHARPNESS is a big no-no, but it actually comes in useful here). The result is SHARPNESS will bring back detail in the textures without revealing the jaggies. For polygon games like F-ZERO GX, these settings actually make it look quite nice.

[FBX]

This is for Fudoh as I think he might find this rather revealing about the difference between interlaced Gamecube component and progressive scan mode. It turns out what people were mistaking as 'false contours' were actually the more finely resolved pixels. In fact, it's interlaced mode that introduces false contours!

What I did was align the Framemeister on one of Link's health hearts in Wind Waker. I then took photographs of the zoomed in heart in both 480i and 480p mode. H_SCALER was set to 4 and V_SCALER was set to 7 (provides maximum focus without ringing).

First the interlaced Wind Waker heart:



Now the progressive scan heart under the EXACT same focus settings:



You can see that the pixels comprising heart are significantly more resolved. Notice how the top edge of the heart is 'smeared' in interlaced mode. THAT'S your 'false contouring'.

Edit: Although I should point out that false contouring can also show up if you don't use a direct scale multiple zoom setting, and that is probably more likely what people were seeing with progressive scan mode on their system. You have to use SMART_2X or a custom zoom mode of ZOOM: 100 and ZOOM_OVERSCAN: 89 with a ZOOM_WIDTH of 47 if you want sharp focus (H_SCALER: 4 and V_SCALER: 7) without false contours.

[Fudoh]

This is for Fudoh as I think he might find this rather revealing about the difference between interlaced Gamecube component and progressive scan mode. It turns out what people were mistaking as 'false contours' were actually the more finely resolved pixels. In fact, it's interlaced mode that introduces false contours!

Cube and Wii's 480p outputs aren't upscaling friendly enough to reveal this. Try again with a PS2 source and it will be much clearer.

Edit: Although I should point out that false contouring can also show up if you don't use a direct scale multiple zoom setting, and that is probably more likely what people were seeing with progressive scan mode on their system. You have to use SMART_2X or a custom zoom mode of ZOOM: 100 and ZOOM_OVERSCAN: 89 with a ZOOM_WIDTH of 47 if you want sharp focus (H_SCALER: 4 and V_SCALER: 7) without false contours.

but Smart 2x or your settings just take care of the vertical scaling. You don't respect pixel AR on your profiles (which is good of course). But since the false contouring only shows on the horizontal, the H_SCALER and SHARPNESS settings are all you can use to work on it.

On your Cube 480p snapshot the double contours are completely blurred, which is at least half fault of the source signal.

Don't you have a Sony LCD ? With a PS2 this is so obvious. The FM's 480p upscaling doesn't even come close to what your TV does on its own (minus it's overscanning and AR control features of course).

SHARPNESS 2 is extremely aggressive. What's your base sharpness setting on your TV ?

[FBX]

Cube and Wii's 480p outputs aren't upscaling friendly enough to reveal this. Try again with a PS2 source and it will be much clearer.

Will do later on this evening. I'm about to go out to see the 3D Avengers movie here in a little bit. But I will say that even with perfect pixel clarity, people generally don't like sharp focus on PS2 or Gamecube polygonal games. I got a lot of thumbs up when I came up with H_SCALER: 10 - V_SCALER: 5 - SHARPNESS 2 (or 1 on some games), and this is because it smooths out the edges of polygons. This is basically what a CRT would be doing by its nature, which is why people often find those systems look better there than on an upscaled LCD display.

On your Cube 480p snapshot the double contours are completely blurred, which is at least half fault of the source signal.

BOTH snapshots are what is sent to the Framemeister. Note that I'm using extreme ZOOM value of 8 rather than trying to use the camera to zoom in. So what you're seeing is the full level of detail of the signal being supplied by the official Nintendo component cable. Nothing is being blurred in the 480p snapshot. Rather as I stated, the 480i snapshot reveals the blurring and false contours.

Don't you have a Sony LCD ? With a PS2 this is so obvious. The FM's 480p upscaling doesn't even come close to what your TV does on your own (minus it's overscanning and AR control features of course).

Yes I have a Sony 55-inch LED LCD display. And to be quite honest, I get FAR more control over the image quality using the Framemeister than plugging the Gamecube straight into the display. Nevertheless, I'll do some more comparison tests, as well as check out PS2 component (which I also have the official cables for).

SHARPNESS 2 is extremely aggressive. What's your base sharpness setting on your TV ?

Base sharpness on the TV is turned completely off (it's one of those sets where zero/off means no artificial sharpening is applied).

[CkRtech]

But I will say that even with perfect pixel clarity, people generally don't like sharp focus on PS2 or Gamecube polygonal games. I got a lot of thumbs up when I came up with H_SCALER: 10 - V_SCALER: 5 - SHARPNESS 2 (or 1 on some games), and this is because it smooths out the edges of polygons. This is basically what a CRT would be doing by its nature, which is why people often find those systems look better there than on an upscaled LCD display.

I really love having slice-your-eye pixels on all of my stuff, although I also recognize that the early polygon era had a lot of internal smearing, etc, that would take away from that clarity prior to the video output. I generally haven't dealt with processing these systems - just gone straight into my set via component an shrugged off the blur.

Interesting that you got a lot of positive feedback from many when using those settings.

[Xan]

There was actually this just a year ago, seems user RowanDDR had not so great luck though: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=5370