XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Konsolkongen]

(BTW, I've been using this http://www.hughski.com for calibrating my screens under GNU/Linux and FreeBSD, and was planning to use it to fine tune the colour settings of my mini, granted the parameters of the mini are far from being as flexible as a proper ICC profile, and a dedicated colour calibration homebrew would be needed anyway to cover the whole colour range of the input signal).

Thanks for sharing. Would be nice to have since it's so cheap. Linux compatibility is a huge plus for me as well

Calibrated my W9 with an i1 Display Pro and that worked great, but I don't own the device, so it's a bit of a pain when I have to borrow it

[Pasky]

I still have these lying around:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5inosnsdcz4pmbf/monitor.zip

[austin532]

Yes, there is a dark green wire connected to pin 19.

I always check for the audio wires. They're in a certain corner on european cables, while on japanese cables this corner is empty instead (pins 2/4/6)

Since this cable is modified to get sync on luma I assume that's normal?

has nothing to do with it. The Luma mod is done on the other end of the cable and only affects the sync signal. Caps should be present on your RGB lines, no matter if you have a JP21 or Euro cable with or without luma as sync.

Yep, pins 2/4/6/8/10/12/14 and 16 are empty. So that plus the fact the Pin 19 is green my guess is that this really is JP 21 pin and there is nothing to worry about using this with the 21 Pin adapter that was included with the system. I am a little concerned though about why Pin 1 is missing if it's used for audio.

[Artemio]

(BTW, I've been using this http://www.hughski.com for calibrating my screens under GNU/Linux and FreeBSD, and was planning to use it to fine tune the colour settings of my mini, granted the parameters of the mini are far from being as flexible as a proper ICC profile, and a dedicated colour calibration homebrew would be needed anyway to cover the whole colour range of the input signal).

Thanks for sharing. Would be nice to have since it's so cheap. Linux compatibility is a huge plus for me as well

Calibrated my W9 with an i1 Display Pro and that worked great, but I don't own the device, so it's a bit of a pain when I have to borrow it

Indeed, thanks for sharing. I do have a colorimeter, but this one sounds great.

Regarding the homebrew, I can always help. The 240p suite already has some full screen color screens, and I could add more or a way to select the RGB values to be displayed. If there is interest in this, what would you have in mind?

[Konsolkongen]

Regarding the homebrew, I can always help. The 240p suite already has some full screen color screens, and I could add more or a way to select the RGB values to be displayed. If there is interest in this, what would you have in mind?

Yes and thank you for that I used your Wii-version to calibrate the component input on my Lumagen VisionPro HDP. For some reason the colors are a disaster when using component on the Lumagen So I borrowed the i1 Display Pro again and used the patterns in your 240p Test Suite to correct this. It was hell though and must have taken about 3 hours. But that was all the Lumagen's fault

The RGB input on the Lumagen is much better, but I suspect it's a little off too. I was going to correct this, however I found a bug in your 240p Test Suite for Wii (I was going to contact you about it), where it doesn't work when you use a RGB cable. The screen is all red, the same as if you try using RGB cables on a US or JAP console. My Wii is EU, and I have the EU system software and all settings adjusted accordingly.

Another thing is that I found it a little confusing to change to fullscreen 480p, and a little tedious to remove the scanlines, since you have to press - (I think) repeatedly until they are gone. Also the IRE-patters are not the proper 10% increments like they are on the Dreamcast.
This hardly matters, but I thought I would mention it anyway

[Artemio]

however I found a bug in your 240p Test Suite for Wii (I was going to contact you about it), where it doesn't work when you use a RGB cable. The screen is all red, the same as if you try using RGB cables on a US or JAP console. My Wii is EU, and I have the EU system software and all settings adjusted accordingly.

Thanks, this was a real pain to correct, it took me about two weeks to figure it out since my console is NTSC and I had no means to test it due to HW restruictions, fortunately I've been working along Yamato to enable PAL support, and you can use the latest RC that includes all that. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... RCTest.zip

Another thing is that I found it a little confusing to change to fullscreen 480p, and a little tedious to remove the scanlines, since you have to press - (I think) repeatedly until they are gone. Also the IRE-patters are not the proper 10% increments like they are on the Dreamcast.
This hardly matters, but I thought I would mention it anyway

The scanlines can now be adjusting holding Left or right, or in steps as before. And IRE has a similar setting, you advance in smaller steps or by holding it. It is no longer limited to 10 IRE steps.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm always happy to improve it... and sorry about the off topic.

[blizzz]

Yep, pins 2/4/6/8/10/12/14 and 16 are empty. So that plus the fact the Pin 19 is green my guess is that this really is JP 21 pin and there is nothing to worry about using this with the 21 Pin adapter that was included with the system. I am a little concerned though about why Pin 1 is missing if it's used for audio.

JP21 pinout (male)


The red pins are needed. Did you mean pin 1 or 2 with "pin above the 1"?

Thanks, this was a real pain to correct, it took me about two weeks to figure it out since my console is NTSC and I had no means to test it due to HW restruictions

The missing RGB signal on the Wii in NTSC mode is purely a software limitation. You can force NTSC software to output 60Hz RGB (PAL) on any Wii console with homebrew tools.

[Artemio]

The missing RGB signal on the Wii in NTSC mode is purely a software limitation. You can force NTSC software to output 60Hz RGB (PAL) on any Wii console with homebrew tools.

I don't have an RGB cable for my Wii =)

Alas, the problem was not setting the video mode to 60hz in PAL, it was the color encoding since the signal output was in YUV due to the register differences in the firmware depending on the version of the HW.

Besides, documentation points out that the EU Wii can't output s-video and the US one can't output RGB, can't test that without the cable though.

[austin532]

Here, perhaps a picture will help. I made a mistake. All 21 pins are in fact there. I was talking about the hole to the left of 2 and above the 1. I'm guessing it's there if you need it?

Anyways my biggest concern was making 100% sure this was a JP 21 cable and not Scart RGB as people do make mistakes sometimes. After checking inside and taking advise from others it looks like it is.

[ultrageranium]

Regarding the homebrew, I can always help. The 240p suite already has some full screen color screens, and I could add more or a way to select the RGB values to be displayed. If there is interest in this, what would you have in mind?

I will try to find some time in the coming days to try to calibrate my MD with it, and will let you know if I think that something is missing. One thing that comes to my mind right now is that to speed up the process, instead of a grid, single centered squares of colors (or maybe moved a bit to the side so that the mini OSD does not overlap maybe, or maybe just full screen color background) and with their RGB value printed below, would allow to attach the colorimeter on the screen once an for all, and use the pad to cycle through different presets (like the ones used in the color grids), and maybe optionally allow for custom RGB value to test borderline situations.

But as I hinted already, the color management of the mini is so primitive that even with a manual iteration with the current test suite or with future improvements, there is only so much that can be adjusted compared to ICC profiles. Then again, I think it would be quite cool to at least approximate something, and maybe the color calibration fetishists could also use that in combination with their TV colour settings for finer DIY tuning, and the exponential extra time required when introduced yet another variable into the equation ;-)

PS: Thanks a lot for the 240p suite, it really helped me a lot understand how the mini settings affect the image!

[EmperorZelos]

Does anyone know how to get the PSP component cable to work with the framemeister? I get this huge screen crunch on it

Is there a PSP oom? Where is it hidden?

[juji82]

Does anyone know how to get the PSP component cable to work with the framemeister? I get this huge screen crunch on it

Did you change Output video on the xmb option?

[EmperorZelos]

Does anyone know how to get the PSP component cable to work with the framemeister? I get this huge screen crunch on it

Did you change Output video on the xmb option?

To what setting exacly?

[Konsolkongen]

Set the XRGB to D-terminal. Press and hold the Display button on the PSP for about 5-7 seconds. Then you should have a picture on your screen.

[Fudoh]

Press and hold the Display button on the PSP for about 5-7 seconds.

never knew that

[Konsolkongen]

That's how it works on my consolized PSP Unfortunately you can't make the PSP remember to output via the AV-out, so you have to do this every time you turn it on.

Someone on Assembler was nice enough to write a PIC code that should auto hold the Display button for 6 seconds (if I remember correctly) and then release, whenever the system is turned on. I just haven't had an opportunity to try it yet :/

[fixedgear]

the PAL color carrier on the sync line is causing this. If you modify your cable (or SNES) to use Luma or pure sync instead, it will be gone.

Thanks.
Probably been discussed several times here but what exactly is the easiest or the most simple mod, say to the euroSCART to Framemeister adapter or the SNES cable, to achieve this.

[Fudoh]

The easiest mod is inside the SNES on the AV output connector. The SNES cable is harder to mod and only all the pins are present on the SNES end of the cable.

[EmperorZelos]

Set the XRGB to D-terminal. Press and hold the Display button on the PSP for about 5-7 seconds. Then you should have a picture on your screen.

I have picture but it is cut/crunched like insane, a mere fraction of what is on the PSP is displayed

This is what I get which is a mere fraction of what the PSP shows

[Fudoh]

You might have your PSP running at 480i instead of 480p. In 480i the PSP can output fullscreen 480i, while in 480p you get a 272p window on a 480p signal. The Mini obviously expects 272p, so it just shows the inner center of the screen.

[Konsolkongen]

The PSP 3000 actually does this too in 480p and when in the XMB-menu. Nothing you can do about it. As far as I can remember the PSP 2000 doesn't do this, but it may have been added in a later firmware for that.

Start a game and it will look normal, or you can use the Normal 2 option to display the full screen when you're in the XMB.

[EmperorZelos]

You might have your PSP running at 480i instead of 480p. In 480i the PSP can output fullscreen 480i, while in 480p you get a 272p window on a 480p signal. The Mini obviously expects 272p, so it just shows the inner center of the screen.

Tried it, no differens

The PSP 3000 actually does this too in 480p and when in the XMB-menu. Nothing you can do about it. As far as I can remember the PSP 2000 doesn't do this, but it may have been added in a later firmware for that.

Start a game and it will look normal, or you can use the Normal 2 option to display the full screen when you're in the XMB.

I get that and normal two option? Whats that`?

[Konsolkongen]

When you're in the game, you need to use Game_LB or Game_LB2. What are you pressing to display that?

[EmperorZelos]

When you're in the game, you need to use Game_LB or Game_LB2. What are you pressing to display that?

I try going to there but they are greyed out not making them selectable, all on Screenset are unselectable nad I have component on.

[Konsolkongen]

Ah, you're using 720p right? You'll probably need to output in 1080p for it to work

[marqs]

the PAL color carrier on the sync line is causing this. If you modify your cable (or SNES) to use Luma or pure sync instead, it will be gone.

Thanks.
Probably been discussed several times here but what exactly is the easiest or the most simple mod, say to the euroSCART to Framemeister adapter or the SNES cable, to achieve this.

Has anyone tried adding a chroma filter (resistor+cap) on the composite video line at the scart end? If Mini's sync input is high impedance, that would be very simple mod, although not necessarily as effective as raw sync / luma / properly shielded cable.

[austin532]

Alright after experiencing RGB for the first time I can clearly say it's the only way to play classic games on a HDTV. Deeper blacks, Whiter whites, a crisper image, and hardly any interference noise.

While it's not a huge improvement over Component the difference is still noticeable and leaves S-Video and Composite in the dust. My only complaint is that for some reason the colors don't seem as vibrant and some adjustment using the TV is needed which doesn't make sense to me as the colors looked fine using Component.

[EmperorZelos]

Ah, you're using 720p right? You'll probably need to output in 1080p for it to work

been using 1080p all the time

[Sixfortyfive]

Alright after experiencing RGB for the first time I can clearly say it's the only way to play classic games on a HDTV. Deeper blacks, Whiter whites, a crisper image, and hardly any interference noise.

While it's not a huge improvement over Component the difference is still noticeable and leaves S-Video and Composite in the dust. My only complaint is that for some reason the colors don't seem as vibrant and some adjustment using the TV is needed which doesn't make sense to me as the colors looked fine using Component.

IIRC, SD RGB sources are usually going to output full-range, while SD component sources will output limited. You should adjust your TV accordingly so that it matches the source.

[austin532]

Alright after experiencing RGB for the first time I can clearly say it's the only way to play classic games on a HDTV. Deeper blacks, Whiter whites, a crisper image, and hardly any interference noise.

While it's not a huge improvement over Component the difference is still noticeable and leaves S-Video and Composite in the dust. My only complaint is that for some reason the colors don't seem as vibrant and some adjustment using the TV is needed which doesn't make sense to me as the colors looked fine using Component.

IIRC, SD RGB sources are usually going to output full-range, while SD component sources will output limited. You should adjust your TV accordingly so that it matches the source.

I am beginning to think it's my TV as I have the same problem with VGA. The colors will look washed out or not as vibrant as Component.

I believe VGA is also equal to RGBHV if I'm not mistaken. If that's true then that would explain why the colors are dull.