Your thoughts about Gun Frontier?

[copy-paster]

I picked the game again on MAME and play it, well honestly I just can't get into this game because the "OK gameplay system, but it could have been better".

But aside from that it has coolest things like title animation, music, unique art and atmosphere, and it was one of Yagawa's favorite game.

[broken harbour]

I hated it, I just didn't get it. I don't understand the praise for it.

Also I'm not that into Yagawa games either, so I likely wouldn't like games he likes.

[EmperorIng]

I find it a fun game. Aesthetics, as you mention, are top-notch and it goes whole-hog with its wild-west sci-fi theme. The emphasis on cinematic set piece-laden stages works in the game's favor, giving the player a lot of memorable moments per stage.

The mechanics of Gun Frontier are nothing special outside of the bomb-collecting fragments (the first game to do so?). I feel like the bullets that are not gold-bar-bullets are sort of an afterthought as they are used so seldom. A lot of survival boils down to memorizing when larger enemies enter the screen (like the large circling planes) and destroying them before they get a chance to enter into their attack patterns. The secrets within the game are neat but I wish there were more and with more variety than "bomb rock" and "bomb crop circle." I think my favorite secrets being how you can destroy the damn behind the stage 3 boss for an instant-kill (cosmetic, but cool), and delaying the destruction of the crossbow machine to reveal a score of bomb fragments and a full-powerup silver dollar.

The biggest knock against it is its out-of-control rank spike by stage 3 that does not seem to subside for the rest of the game. For as many large-hitbox bullets as the game has, having so many of them, when coupled with a early-90s hitbox, makes the game harder than it needs to be. This is not counting the deluge of annoying blue helicopter enemies that you need special strategies (ie, stay only on one side of the screen in order to minimize their range) that aggravate me every time I play.

[Xyga]

Looks and sounds great, but frustratingly hard.

[Strikers1945guy]

Looks and sounds great, but frustratingly hard.

This. Hard in a good way though. Woukd have liked a faster ship speed but that's a small complaint. That waterfall scene is gorgeous. Love the long needle type bullets which I'm sure is where Yagawa got the inspiration to use them so much.

[Kollision]

it's probably one of the most influential verts besides the classics

Rayforce, Yagawa-shit, Under Defeat, they all draw a lot from GF

[Stevens]

Under Defeat, they all draw a lot from GF

That explains why I dig it.

[trap15]

Truly amazing game. Aesthetic through the roof, incredibly satisfying and useful bomb system, neat powerup system, hard as hell.

[Imhotep]

also one of my top stgs (and games), presentation-wise it's in its own league, the gameplay's up to the task, don't use autofire, it gets very intense.

when those big air ships in stage one appeared after there's been a humming noise for a while I realized that all subsequent stgs had been doing something wrong.

[Kollision]

don't use autofire

how do you deal with those huge bombers in stage 3?

[copy-paster]

Woukd have liked a faster ship speed but that's a small complaint.

Finally I'm not the only one who complaint about the ship speed, if the ship move bit faster i think I'll change my mind.

[Captain]

One of the best games of it's time. And perhaps more than that.

[Strikers1945guy]

Woukd have liked a faster ship speed but that's a small complaint.

Finally I'm not the only one who complaint about the ship speed, if the ship move bit faster i think I'll change my mind.

Cmon Trap15 !

[Shepardus]

Woukd have liked a faster ship speed but that's a small complaint.

Finally I'm not the only one who complaint about the ship speed, if the ship move bit faster i think I'll change my mind.

Cmon Trap15 !

Gun Frontier: Red Label

I never really understood the appeal of Gun Frontier. Sure it's got a cool theme and has some nice artwork, but I just can't stand the gameplay. Aside from my general distaste for checkpoints, slow ships, large(-ish) hitboxes, and lack of built-in autofire, the first two stages (which is about as far as I usually get especially if I'm not using autofire) have these long periods where there doesn't seem to be anything to do except wait for the next enemy to spawn and gawk at the backgrounds and sprites. Then the rest of it murders me. Also I'm not aware of any item movement pattern that annoys me more than those shot powerup coins that move up and down, always managing to swing away from me right as I'm about to grab them.

[Squire Grooktook]

I always play this with autofire on, and I don't really see the first two stages as any worse then most early stages of stg's of that era.

I like it. I don't like slow movement, but for once I don't mind the ship speed in this game (I wouldn't really call it that "slow" actually, it's faster then the focus modes you spend 90% of your time in in most danmaku games...GF is just kind of a low-average speed). The combination of slow-ish bullet and ship speed + big hitboxes gives the game a unique chunky feel which I think is a nice change of pace.

I haven't played it far enough (stage 4 boss I think?) to say much more. Seems solid to me in all regards. Definitely another game I'd like to spend more time with.

[Xyga]

Also I'm not aware of any item movement pattern that annoys me more than those shot powerup coins that move up and down, always managing to swing away from me right as I'm about to grab them.

At least those don't escape to the top of the screen or change at the last microsecond to the weapon you absolutely do not want to take. *rage*

[Domino]

I feel the Saturn port was made a lot easier than the arcade version.

[trap15]

Yes the Saturn port is baby mode.

Personally, I like the checkpoints, I like the recovery, I like the ship speed. I've tried changing them, they make the game worse in my opinion.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah, I agree. They're part of the games character, and they feel better to me then other games with similar issues (ala Raiden 3's ship speed never felt right to me, Gun Frontier does...probably because of the large hitboxes. You actually have to move a lot instead of infinitesimal taps with an already slow ship).

[Strikers1945guy]

I get the ship speed even though I wish it was faster. Same with Gunnail. I guess Yagawa just spoiled us with all the ship speed combinations and stuff.

[trap15]

I've also got to add that the only real flaw in the game is checkpoint milking, which is solved if you play for no-miss.

[monouchi]

I love this amazing game.
Very atmospheric and superb music that fits the darker tone.

Flying over a quiet forest listening to the music and the engines of the large blue ships approaching in stage 2, flying over the waterfall watching the birds fly out, watching level 4 boss wither away into the sandstorm, fly over the armada of ships beneath you in stage 5 and so on... is just awesome mood.

The bomb is so satisfying as it starts out with crazy warping the background, shooting of the initial trail and then following with the massive explosions filling the screen slowing the game down....and you can control the direction!

Playing for score is also fun with many secrets and tactics.

It is also challenging, if you are not focused from stage 3 the game will eat you.

Also prolly the best gameplay intro of any shmup....

[AxelMill]

This thread made me remember, and then try, this game.
After an hour and a half of credit-feeding, sweating (my index hurts, ouch), swearing and bad ending (I hate games that do this, why make me start from the beginning when I die at the very end?), I can safely say that... Eh, it's good. Definitely better than Battle Garegga, IMO. The music's nice, the background animations are pretty cool (are there older games that have those?), the level 5 boss and the short final stage are pretty epic for a 1990 shmup.
Unfortunately because of the bullsheet I had to endure during the fifth level, especially the freaking canyon, without any payoff because, you know, bad ending and stuff, I doubt I'll play it again anytime soon.

[trap15]

I love how balls-to-the-wall the canyon section is. Only part more satisfyingly intense is the factory area later in st5 with the dozens of tanks from everywhere.

[Stevens]

Since this has been in my rotation I figure the STG Weekly featuring it should be helpful.

[TransatlanticFoe]

What's different in the Saturn version? I like the art style but the power ups/carriers were annoying.

[trap15]

The Saturn version forces rank to constantly be at lowest, so things just don't shoot very often. I guess it was in response to people saying the game was too hard, but the adjustment is way too far. You can clear it in a couple tries at most.

[Strikers1945guy]

The Saturn version forces rank to constantly be at lowest, so things just don't shoot very often. I guess it was in response to people saying the game was too hard, but the adjustment is way too far. You can clear it in a couple tries at most.

That sucks. I've never played the Saturn version. Is there no arcade mode on the port ?

[Kollision]

No extra "arcade" mode whatsoever on the Saturn port.

I wonder if it's somehow hidden though.

[Despatche]

^ This, but also with many flaws. And sloooooooooooooooooow.

I can imagine it being hacked and tweaked into something truly great with some effort.

Or we could just avoid making a hack that appeals perfectly to some people and enjoy the truly great game we already have. The "flaws" that Gun Frontier has apply to about 99% of the games from 1985 to 1995. It's really hard to figure out where to begin on "fixing" the game, but I don't think anyone who subscribes to the ship speed meme has the right idea.