Which do you prefer in terms of gameplay? DFK 1.5 or BL?

[cave hermit]

Just a small poll out of curiosity.

Personally I don't feel I've played enough of either to make an informed decision (although black label made a much better initial impression on me, and it is undeniable that the black label OST is pretty much the best thing ever)

[Bananamatic]

BL is only good as a music dlc

[pestro87]

Definitely BL for me, I like it a lot actually! I don't really care for 1.5.

[monouchi]

Neither.
1.0 is the best for me.

[Special World]

Vanilla DFK is easily my least favorite Cave game, so Black Label for sure.

[BulletMagnet]

I like the ability to control the rank in BL, you can make sections you're good at tougher and more lucrative, and areas you're having trouble with easier, and work your way up. I also like the Type spread better; disabling auto-bomb gives you more Hypers to use in Bomb mode, and Strong is more interesting as the "you've got lots of firepower, but can you handle THIS?" mode as opposed to "Bomb, but easier".

[Shepardus]

I've barely played any Black Label but I don't think it'd be hard for me to like it more than 1.5. About the only thing I like about 1.5 is the stage 5 music. Agree with BulletMagnet's comments about the ship types too, and how you can turn off autobomb (I really dislike the autobomb in 1.5, feels almost like having health bars in that the game can throw a bunch of crap at you and you don't care).

[Eaglet]

BL has a better OST but 1.5 is a much better designed game scoring wise.
It's one I'll try to spend some time with if i can get a hold of a cheap PCB.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Having played both the DDP DFK 1.5 & DDP DFK BL PCBs, the BL version is the better one hands down. Why you might ask? Auto-bomb functionality is selectable before you begin a serious shmup session.

Sure, you can get a full kit of DDP DFK version 1.5 PCB for about $600-$650 USD nowadays. Plan on spending in the neighborhood of $1,000-$1,200 USD for a barebones DDP DFK BL PCB which is the going rate these days.

Yes, I've seen such a complete DDP DFK BL PCB kit with an asking price of $1,400 USD in the past here on the Shmups Trading section (but the buyer wanted just the PCB itself and thus in this particular instance, the PCB and the DFK BL factory shipping box & all accompanying arcade paperworks + POP were broken up & sold in two seperate lots to two different buyers). Of course, in retrospect, it's wiser to get a complete DFK BL PCB full kit at said asking price and still recoup your initial investment if the ultimate decision comes up to sell it in the nearby future.

Of course, both above mentioned PCBs are running on the CV-1000 D revision board setup. It's a given these days.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[system11]

Having played both the DDP DFK 1.5 & DDP DFK BL PCBs, the BL version is the better one hands down. Why you might ask? Auto-bomb functionality is selectable before you begin a serious shmup session.

Even as a casual player the forced autobomb killed 1.5 for me. The problem is there's a difficulty cliff in stage 5 at the laser wheels, but everything up to there on a survival play is pretty easy. I could make it to the wheels without using lives or bombs, and there I would die. Even if I played badly, because the autobombs saved me I'd still end up failing at the laser wheels.

Every single game was doomed to failure at the laser wheels, whether I had a good or bad run, taking away any feeling of progression or enjoyment.

Black Label on the other hand, the bombs are optional - and it's harder before reaching the wheels, the red gauge giving any level of player room to play around and improve. If I play a good game or a bad game in BL, there's a noticeable difference in end result.

[Obscura]

I've only played DFK 1.5 (and thus didn't vote), but that game is fun enough for some casual play. Score play is retarded because of the Ura bullshit, but 1-all in all styles is some good, if fairly easy, fun.

I'm personally not a fan of "hold down two buttons to change the rank" as an idea. Too artificial, IMO.

[Special World]

Yeah, the autobomb is just terrible. I also hate the scoring system, which has some of the most transparent buildup of any Cave game. If you die at that certain point it's awful-it's like you spent your whole life trying to score without ever scoring. And trying to trigger the classic bosses leads to incredible restartitis if you don't have it down. A very poorly thought out game all around, imo. I vastly prefer the other Dodonpachis.

[Cagar]

I'm personally not a fan of "hold down two buttons to change the rank" as an idea. Too artificial, IMO.

I agree.
I also think that the way how rank works in DFKBL is very artificial and wonky in general; sometimes having a high rank and just holding the two buttons is easier than playing with low rank (because of bullet cancels). Scoring and even just basic gameplay is even much more cancelling-based in it than in 1.5 anyways.

It's really a Yagawa brainfart version only good for music and casual fun... ...which perfectly explains the poll result

I think DFK 1.5 would be a much better game without auto-bombs though, but it's still easily better than BL already.

[To Far Away Times]

There is so much wasted potential with Daifukatsu.

The autobomb is dumb.
The laser wheels are dumb.
The game is too easy and then all of a sudden it's way too hard.
The whole game is dumb.

If only the autobomb wasn't there... I imagine the stage design and difficulty curve would have been much better throughout.

[cave hermit]

The general vibe I seem to be getting here is that whereas black label can be enjoyed in quick pick up and play sessions, 1.5 is the sort of game you have to go full shmup to enjoy, for better or for worse.

[KAI]

The Yagawa one.

[Smokey]

DFK 1.5
This is a bit of a difficult choice. I think 1.5 has better scoring, but it's more punishing, and the milking is gay as aids. Second loops are bullshit but I like DFK's. Getting to it sucks. Fuck the ura path.

BL has full retard scoring, and the hyper spam is really shitty. Still crap milking, but the rank making the hit go up so fast on bosses is pretty fun. Strong shot is now less free win, since it's second loop difficulty. Some parts have more lame slowdown. BL has lots of shit that makes it easier despite the extra bullets, so I don't even play it casually, since DFK is already pretty low on the difficulty for a cave game.

[Strikers1945guy]

BL. Cranking up the Reddo Guage to max and playing for survival is fun as hell. Seeing real players scoring in 1.5 is a feat to behold though.

Also the laser wheels are awesome.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm personally not a fan of "hold down two buttons to change the rank" as an idea. Too artificial, IMO.

Haven't played it myself, but what exactly is "artificial" about it?

Rank itself is a very "artificial" concept. Enemies magically growing stronger because of a set of developer assigned actions the player can perform is not the most intuitive or story justified concept in the world. On that basis, I don't think it's any more artificial for the player to also have a magical button to press in order to toy with this "rank" thingamabob.

[Special World]

The general vibe I seem to be getting here is that whereas black label can be enjoyed in quick pick up and play sessions, 1.5 is the sort of game you cannot enjoy at all ever.

[pokemon123]

didn't ikeda barely work on DFK or am i being dumb?

[trap15]

I'm personally not a fan of "hold down two buttons to change the rank" as an idea. Too artificial, IMO.

Haven't played it myself, but what exactly is "artificial" about it?

Rank itself is a very "artificial" concept. Enemies magically growing stronger because of a set of developer assigned actions the player can perform is not the most intuitive or story justified concept in the world. On that basis, I don't think it's any more artificial for the player to also have a magical button to press in order to toy with this "rank" thingamabob.

In a very very large majority of shooting games, there is rank based on time. That's not very artificial.

[Weak Boson]

1.5 is the one I've played more of, presumably there's a reason for that. There's something super intense about keeping those massive chains from slipping away. Not that I could do it particularly well. At least I should get a power 1-sissy - but deep down I know that would mean saddling up on the laser wheel carousel - maybe one day.

Black Label has an outrageous number of bullets but the amount that get cancelled is the real scandal.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm personally not a fan of "hold down two buttons to change the rank" as an idea. Too artificial, IMO.

Haven't played it myself, but what exactly is "artificial" about it?

Rank itself is a very "artificial" concept. Enemies magically growing stronger because of a set of developer assigned actions the player can perform is not the most intuitive or story justified concept in the world. On that basis, I don't think it's any more artificial for the player to also have a magical button to press in order to toy with this "rank" thingamabob.

In a very very large majority of shooting games, there is rank based on time. That's not very artificial.

I'm not arguing against rank, I have no problem with it. But the point is I'm curious what the argument for one kind of rank control being more "artificial" then another one is. Or what "artificial" even means.

To me, artificial would mean something along the lines of "an action and a result that are decided by the developer but aren't logically or intuitively connected on their own" For example, shooting an enemy to make them die doesn't sound "artificial" to me. Point blanking them with shot A and then focusing other things with shot B for more points does sound "artificial" to me (not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you).

On that note, I don't see how having a button that can increase rank sounds more artificial then suicide to control rank. Neither are immediately intuitive or make logical sense within the games story or context, so I'd call both methods "artificial". Again, not that there's anything wrogh with that.

[adversity1]

Just standing up to be counted here.

[copy-paster]

BL for me, better gameplay and music.

Is it just me or I find stage 1 through 4 are too easy in 1.5?

[Shepardus]

BL for me, better gameplay and music.

Is it just me or I find stage 1 through 4 are too easy in 1.5?

They're not that easy, but the autobomb makes it so even if you're terrible at stages 1-4 you'll still probably make it to stage 5 (and die at the laser wheels).

[Squire Grooktook]

Kind of reminds me of my problem with Kamui: Get hit a million times on stage 2*, still make it to stage 4/5.

*On hard mode, probably won't be getting hit that early at all on normal.

[jasoncslaughter]

BL is the clear choice for me. Much better music, I like the reddo gauge, autobombs are optional, and although I'm not a fan of chaining in general, it feels a lot better to me in BL. I felt like I dropped chains in 1.5 for no reason, but maybe it's just because I'm a scrubby player.

[Obscura]

BL for me, better gameplay and music.

Is it just me or I find stage 1 through 4 are too easy in 1.5?

They're not that easy, but the autobomb makes it so even if you're terrible at stages 1-4 you'll still probably make it to stage 5 (and die at the laser wheels).

They are that easy, though. Get a strong-style 1CC, and see how long it takes you to make it to the laser wheels with Power.

(The answer will be "not long".)