Anyone here have a job coding/programming?...

[dave4shmups]

There are all KINDS of ways to learn coding these days, from Treehouse.com, to Code Academy, and it's something that I've thought about getting into. However, I hated using BASIC in school on the Apple IIe, and once we got a Mac (in either '87 or '88), and I took to the GUI like a fish to water. Plus, I could never make the blasted turtle with Logo on the IIe. People can say that's a bad comparison all they want, but it's still programming, and I was never good at it.

Plus, in any programming language, if you even miss a period, there goes your code-at least AFIK.

[MintyTheCat]

Yes.

I work fairly 'low down'. I write mostly in C and Assembly and usually end up being close to the hardware.
I tend to use Makefiles and a Programmer's Editor (Vim is my Editor of choice) for most things but I find these days that many toolchains come bundled with Eclipse. I do not know much about anything GUI oriented. I work in the Embedded field and as such the host development system varies but at its lowest there will usually be a C Compiler and a Linker and hopefully a Debugger. If there is no Debugger available then I rely on JTAG, ICD, Logic-Analysers and worst-case a standard Oscilloscope. A while back I found myself without a Debugger and no useful tools so I ended up writing a hook that allowed me to set condition-variables in a page of memory - that kind of allowed me to interrogate the hardware as it was being configured but that I would say is not a nice way to have to work but sometimes even large companies cannot be arsed to spend money on decent tools, Siemens - that means you...

I too learned BASIC and then went on to learn Assembly and then got into C and then later C++.
I never liked BASIC and instead preferred Assembly.
C++ is nice but has this nutty standard that gets bigger every few years. I prefer C for most things but I have a love:hate thing with C.
C#, Java - I don't giving a flying shit about them.
The hardest language I ever had to write anything for was Prolog. I never tried Brainfuck but the code I have seen made me cackle
Not really programming but I am partial to VHDL.

I use Bash (sometimes Ash for some smaller targets that run QNX or Linux) scripts and Python and Matlab. Python and Matlab are especially useful for turning data quickly into something useful and I use it to generate all sorts of things from register tables, state-tables to graphics data - it is pretty easy to pick up and use and can save you a lot of hassle even though I have never used it on any embedded target and only use it on the dev host.

I love UNIX for its tools and pragmatism.

[Giest118]

I do; mostly in C# and Javascript (web development).

A lot of how smoothly it goes can depend on what software you use to develop. You mentioned that missing a period will break your code; any good code editor will helpfully highlight spots that'll break if you try to compile the code, and even specifically tell you what you've done wrong (usually).

[Herr Schatten]

I never really got into BASIC, but I learned some Pascal in school. After not writing a single line of code in 20 years, last year I taught myself z80 Assembly to start developing games for the Sega Master System. I expected it to be hard, but I actually found Assembly and its direct hardware access much easier to grasp than any of the more abstract programming languages I looked at.

[MintyTheCat]

I liken Assembly to being able to do "a lot with a little" and it is much more straight forward than a high level language.

[Stompp]

What language(s) you end up working in really boils down to what you want to do. In some cases you have only a few options and in others there's a bigger variety.

While assembly language or low level C is good for certain time critical applications where you need precise control of the hardware it might not be the best option for building a web application. C#/javascript as someone already mentioned is a good combo for starters IMO. C# is a versatile language and Visual Studio gives you great support when coding. Add javascript to the mix and you have a great toolset for working with most things from desktop to backend to web (and even IoT). Visual Studio Express (with C#/.NET) is free to use.

When it comes to learning programming there's a bunch of different sources on the net. Personally I prefer pluralsight.com. It costs a bit but is worth every cent. Apart from that there's plenty of forums where you can post your questions

HTH

[copy-paster]

If you want an HTML/BBcode programming, please let me know

[mirkvid]

C++ here. Been at it professionaly for about 7 years or so.

[o.pwuaioc]

Self-taught C++ back in the early 2000s (later C, WinAPI, and a few other things) and then formally learned Java in 2008. Coding isn't my job, but I do end up using it for various projects. What's amazing about new IDEs is that they'll tell you where you missed a semicolon or period or closed parenthesis. If you're worried about that, you don't have much to worry about. You just can't be sloppy.

[Satan]

I did 2 yr UK course called a BTEC Higher National diploma in Computer Science which was mostly taught by a bunch of old people stuck in the 70's. We did all our programming assignments in Visual Studio. What exactly is Visual studio? None of the lecturers were clear about why we used it. The course was a total waste of time and money since people with a degree in comp sci are struggling to find jobs and HRs are now saying you need a degree to answer a phone.

[Stompp]

Visual Studio is an IDE (Integrated Development Environment). An IDE (as opposed to an editor) gives the programmer support when developing software. Usually it consists of an editor with code checking (it tells you when something is wrong) and other help, build automation tools (for compiling your code for different environments etc) and debugging tools. It can also have a bunch of other features for making your day easier.

[MintyTheCat]

Visual Studio is an IDE (Integrated Development Environment). An IDE (as opposed to an editor) gives the programmer support when developing software. Usually it consists of an editor with code checking (it tells you when something is wrong) and other help, build automation tools (for compiling your code for different environments etc) and debugging tools. It can also have a bunch of other features for making your day easier.

An IDE: "integrated development environment" does just that - it integrates all the parts of the tools together into something that forms work processes.

Makes life often easier for many. The best I ever had was Turbo C 3 by Borland back in the mid 90s. Then followed by the worst: Metrowerks version 1 or 2 - I forget but it was impossible to set up a project. Eclipse can be a bit hard going to set up a project too I find.
It boils down to how you like to work. I personally hate anything that auto-generates Makefiles for me - I think for Embedded work it lulls the developer into a false sense of security but for app work it is less of an issue for me personally to use an IDE.

The dev environment that you are given or can get varies a fair amount in what I work on so being able to rough it with a Makefile, Editor and the command-line is as low as you ever need to get and all else is a bonus.

You simply have to find what works for you and what permits you to be productive. The worst situation is when you are not allowed to use decent tools usually due to your platform or restrictions placed on you in the work place and even management not understanding licenses or what not.

I do find these days that far too much of Software Engineering is plagued by messing around with tools and environments instead of simply getting the job done. I never like anything that auto gens code for me as again it lulls the developer into a false sense of security: no one wants to be surprised by their 'own code' when they are attempting to debug their code but much of these large Rational products offered do just that. Many of the large companies have this dream that no one will be writing any code in the near future. Same dream as it was nearly 30 years ago

[Michaelm]

I have a job as a C# developer since 2008.
Mostly web programming, also javascript and SQL.

Check out this for a start:
https://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com ... nners-8295

[nasty_wolverine]

self taught.
C/C++ for personal projects that never see the light of day.
Java/C# learnt but fuck them.
VB/SQL hate both, but thats like 80% of my job now.

[Satan]

SQL is just horrible. I loathe DBs.

[MintyTheCat]

SQL is just horrible. I loathe DBs.

Me too. But I pretty much find GUI work and general application work to be pretty boring.

[nasty_wolverine]

SQL is just horrible. I loathe DBs.

its mostly because for a normal programmer with C family language base, writing something that is set theory based is a little jarring.

the worst thing is, at work, people think using temp tables is the solution to world hunger. some procedures end up with 25 temp tables, and its really hard to edit anything there.
I generally try to write neat and clean code, worry about optimizations later if needed. they keep telling me that it runs slow because i am using subselects rather than temp tables, when it really doesnt. did comparative testing, works as well as temp table methods. i always make sure subselects are only one layer deep. my codes easy on the eyes, understandable, easily editable. bad temp table are none of the above. fuck them.

i always believed the simplest and easiest to read code is the best. optimization only when necessary.

[GaijinPunch]

Professionally C++ and whatever glue I want to hold it together with other stuff (Python, although traditionally Perl). Have to know a few other things (SQL) here and there. I am self taught, and it hurt me in the job hunt. Not a ton (I have a good job) but a few places wouldn't even phone screen me, despite the fact that I have 15 years experience in my industry (it's a hard industry to get into), with about 8 of that coding production applications.

I'm going to go back and get a masters. Trying, anyway.

If you want to get hired as a programmer, learn data structures and algorithms inside and out.

[MintyTheCat]

If you want to get hired as a programmer, learn data structures and algorithms inside and out.

Being able to write decent Algos that do the job well enough is really a useful skill to have and I cannot agree more.
Also, knowing something about analysing implementations of code can become something that pays back well over the long run.

I think the main thing is to keep solving problems and learn from your mistakes.
Also, and I have hired people in the past, but I am not interested in how many languages a person has some experience in per say but more over what they can do with a language and how they solve problems.

These last 12 or so years I have had CVs sent to me whereby the Developer will simply list about 10 to 20 languages that they have some experience in. I would say don't do this. It sounds alarm bells for me as I wonder just how much experience a Developer can have when they have split their time over 10 to 20 languages.

Also, when someone asks you "how do you rate your knowledge of C/C++/what ever else?", never say "I am an expert". You are asking for trouble I tend to play it down and say "slightly above average" to catch them off guard

[Stompp]

Also, when someone asks you "how do you rate your knowledge of C/C++/what ever else?", never say "I am an expert". You are asking for trouble I tend to play it down and say "slightly above average" to catch them off guard

This! I've been working in this line of business for 20+ years (of which 15 as a developer). I have a bachelor's degree in Systems and Computer Science. I'm still very humble about my skills. I too stick with slightly above average

[nasty_wolverine]

Also, when someone asks you "how do you rate your knowledge of C/C++/what ever else?", never say "I am an expert". You are asking for trouble I tend to play it down and say "slightly above average" to catch them off guard

This! I've been working in this line of business for 20+ years (of which 15 as a developer). I have a bachelor's degree in Systems and Computer Science. I'm still very humble about my skills. I too stick with slightly above average

this applies for any other skills too. always rate yourself a 7/10 even if you think yourself to be an expert. because there is always more to learn than you know. 7/10 is respectable, humble, while still saying you have a very good grasp on the subject, and most importantly not a showoff.

[MintyTheCat]

Also, when someone asks you "how do you rate your knowledge of C/C++/what ever else?", never say "I am an expert". You are asking for trouble I tend to play it down and say "slightly above average" to catch them off guard

This! I've been working in this line of business for 20+ years (of which 15 as a developer). I have a bachelor's degree in Systems and Computer Science. I'm still very humble about my skills. I too stick with slightly above average

this applies for any other skills too. always rate yourself a 7/10 even if you think yourself to be an expert. because there is always more to learn than you know. 7/10 is respectable, humble, while still saying you have a very good grasp on the subject, and most importantly not a showoff.

7/10 doesn't sound all that humble though More like 5.2/10 then proceed to blow the man away.

It is like saying that you can "handle yourself..." when actually you are a cage-fighter with a Lion tattoo on your big toe that you got when you were like nine years old - always a nice finish

[nasty_wolverine]

7/10 doesn't sound all that humble though More like 5.2/10 then proceed to blow the man away.

It is like saying that you can "handle yourself..." when actually you are a cage-fighter with a Lion tattoo on your big toe that you got when you were like nine years old - always a nice finish

5/10 sounds like you just know half the stuff, 8/10 sounds like you know more than the interviewer which is bad. so i choose 7/10, when i am closer to 9/10, 6/10 for when i can manage but not expert. 5/10 for shaky stuff. The times i have been asked "How would you rate yourself in ***?" led me to pretty much standardize this format and it works for me. never got rejected for an interview in 8 years.

Also, public service announcement, DO NOT bullshit during an interview, your interviewer is asking you questions s/he surely knows the answers to. Its better to say i dont know than to bullshit.

[Shepardus]

5.2/10 is a failing grade, that goes beyond humility to the point where it looks like you have no self-confidence. I would say 7/10 if you're competent but nothing special, 8/10 if you're pretty confident about your abilities, 9/10 if you're some sort of superstar (which, if we're talking about C/C++, you probably aren't).

If you don't know the answer to something, you should admit that you don't know, but make sure you say what you do know, so the interviewer knows that you were almost there rather than being forced to assume that you didn't know anything. If asked to solve a problem on a whiteboard, online text editor, etc., above all make sure you're talking as much as possible about what you're thinking, potential problems with your approach, how you're organizing your thoughts, etc. Interviewers tend to like talkative people (as long as you're not talking about something completely unrelated, of course).

[Stompp]

Noone know the solution to every problem/task you may face in an interview and the interviewer knows that. It is as already mentioned much more important to be able to reason about the task and show that you grasp the idea/thought process than to actually solve it. Also when the interviewer presents the solution, remember that the interviewer probably knows this by heart and don't let it defeat you. On to the next question

[MintyTheCat]

Keep in mind that when you say how you feel what your level is it is purely subjective and only a basic indication.
If you then blow the man away in the interview with your knowledge he will quickly forget any number that offered as your 'level'.

When do I conduct interviews I don't remember details such as numbers and levels I just remember my general take on the person and whether or not I feel that they could do the job. If they bullshit me I am very likely to cross-reference them and in turn reveal their bullshit. If they talk too much or too little, I remember that. I also keep in mind how they handle themselves in the interview and try to gauge what type of person they are.

Sitting on both sides of the interview table is useful experience regardless.

When I first left University I had no interview experience at all so I used to apply for any job just to get some interview experience. I have to say that it was useful and helped further on when it mattered.

Cheers,

Minty.

[GaijinPunch]

Being able to write decent Algos that do the job well enough is really a useful skill to have and I cannot agree more.
Also, knowing something about analysing implementations of code can become something that pays back well over the long run.

Definitely. And, it's the only way to get past the phone screens (especially for your first job where you have no projects to speak of).

Also, when someone asks you "how do you rate your knowledge of C/C++/what ever else?", never say "I am an expert". You are asking for trouble I tend to play it down and say "slightly above average" to catch them off guard

I think it's even worse when they ask you to rate your C++ knowledge on a scale of 1 - 10? I mean, this is a HUGE language. I struggle a little bit w/ the C side as I jumped in head first when the STL was in full swing (and what's now C++ 11 was in tr1). Doesn't mean I can't write good code, as I know how to get around my weaknesses.

If I'm asked this verbally, I try to explain my strengths and weaknesses. I've used pthread and sockets quite a bit, but not at an expert level. I wrote a socket or two about 10 years ago, then reused them. I wouldn't call myself a socket expert, but good enough. Same with threads. I've not used std::thread, but it apparently is much nicer (but of course with threading you always have the same pitfalls).

The phone screens are a mixed bag. My biggest irk with the industry in general is that you're often screened by a person who may or may not be qualified and is reading from a script. I was on phone screen 2 with a certain (very large) cumpany and he asked for a more "traditional definition of a deadlock" after I told him it's "when two or more threads will never unlock, and the program essentially halts". I said "do you want an example?" and he assured me it was a definition. When I said I couldn't he provided me with his definition... which was an example. Oh well -- I'm happy where I am now.

[spmbx]

Self-taught C++ back in the early 2000s (later C, WinAPI, and a few other things) and then formally learned Java in 2008. Coding isn't my job, but I do end up using it for various projects. What's amazing about new IDEs is that they'll tell you where you missed a semicolon or period or closed parenthesis. If you're worried about that, you don't have much to worry about. You just can't be sloppy.

Turbo pascal did that 20 or more years ago. I never understood why c compilers/ide's from around that time didnt

[Michaelm]

If you want to get hired as a programmer, learn data structures and algorithms inside and out.

Microsoft Certificates work well too in the Netherlands. Atleast to get you invited.
You can get them quite cheap if you order those self-paced training kits.
They usually contain 3 books for which you need to do an exam each.
The exams are priced around 140 euro and you can schedule them through the internet for a location nearby.
When you pass your first exam you'll be an MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional).
Usually it takes 3 to get some sort of title like MCPD (Microsoft Certified Professional Developer).

But you should also get some hands-on experience and it certainly helps if you just fall in love with programming.
Lots of stuff you will only encounter when you get an actual job in it.
Personally I feel I don't have to work anymore, only do some hobby.
The only 'negative' thing about my job is getting up early.

[the_last_shmupper]

I have a career in programming and I've fallen into some good situations. Programming is easier than people think especially with Google. Just look up what you want to do or post in a forum and someone will just do it for you.

PHP
MIVA
C++
Java
JavaScript
JQuery
ActionScript 2
ActionScript 3
GML