The Odyssey 2 and other overlooked classic consoles thread!

[louisg]

The Odyssey 2 kinda rules. I always thought most of the games on it were just basic stuff like video poker or that memory game, with K.C. Munchkin being one of the few exceptions to the rule. But there's a lot of really interesting stuff on it!

They had some talented game designers who put really neat tweaks on classic formulas. For example, there's the version of Breakout where you're put in competition with people who are trying to repair the wall. And players switch off. U.F.O. is a take on Asteroids with Missile Command influence where you have to strategically manage your ship's energy and can set off chain-reactions when enemies explode, either via shooting or ramming them.

One neat thing too is that you only get one life in a lot of these games. While Nintendo and Atari took the tactic of making home games more forgiving (easier difficulty, or adding lifebars, or dishing out many extra lives), Odyssey went the other way: Why have three tries when you're not paying per play, right? It makes me wonder if lives just originated as a way of making the game manageable for people who were new to it.

Other games I was digging: KC's Krazy Chase, Pickaxe Pete, and Turtles (apparently a port from a Stern arcade game of the same name). Freedom Fighters also seems interesting but I think you need a second player controlling the hyperdrive to make it work.

Anyway, this seems like a cool, oft-overlooked system. It has just a small handful of games for it, but there are some real gems in there.

[louisg]

Well, I went out shopping for an O2 and ended up with an Atari 7800 instead somehow. I'd been wanting one for a while. Anyway, it's got some of the worst controllers ever AND it's not compatible with Genesis controllers (grumble). I need to pick up one of those euro pads for it which were apparently OK. I'm looking forward to playing Commando, Ballblazer, and some of the classics on it Apparently the Commando is one of the best around, with different levels than are found in other versions and powerups.

[Obiwanshinobi]

My classmate back in the day had a multi-game Soviet Pong clone. Quite a few games on it, also, various controllers (lightguns included). The squash game seemed most playable if you ask me. I doubt it would be of much use on 60 Hz-only TVs.

[BrianC]

I'm not a huge fan of the stock 7800 controllers, but at least the response is ok. Not a huge fan of the button placement. They aren't great controllers, but I disagree they are the worst ever. The inputs work as they should, at least and they seem to last. I found the Intellivision, Colecovision, some of those cheesy gimmick controllers like that one NES controller where you stand on and tilt to move, and aftermarket controllers like some of those SNES controllers to be worse. I like the 7800, myself. Pretty nice Commando port with some of its own unique elements, an odd game named Midnight Mutants with a strange licensing of Grandpa Munster that's actually fun to play, some nice GCC arcade ports, and nice homebrews like Jr. Pac-Man, Failsafe and Beef Drop.

I haven't played the O2 Turtles, but I have a tabletop based on it that's a lot of fun. I think the arcade game may have been made by Konami since it's on their hardware and they did the Tomy Pyutta (JP Tomy Tutor) version, though it's hard to tell since Sega distributed it in Japan. There's also a game named 600 that does credit Konami that looks like the same game with cars, but I don't know if that is official.

[louisg]

I'm not a huge fan of the stock 7800 controllers, but at least the response is ok. Not a huge fan of the button placement. They aren't great controllers, but I disagree they are the worst ever. The inputs work as they should, at least and they seem to last. I found the Intellivision, Colecovision, some of those cheesy gimmick controllers like that one NES controller where you stand on and tilt to move, and aftermarket controllers like some of those SNES controllers to be worse.

Oh I was thinking "worst ever stock controller". OK, maybe not the worst ever, but at least the two I got are pretty near unusable. Sometimes I feel like I need to wrench it to get my character to move the right direction, and it definitely makes the games less fun. I don't remember having nearly as much of an issue with Coleco, but that was a long time ago. Intellivision I hear has pretty bad controllers.

I did pick up the Atari 7800 pad (which I guess only launched in Europe), and it's a huge improvement over their joystick. The dpad is actually great- accurate and very responsive, and the optional thumbstick feels good. The only drawback is that it's hard to hit both buttons simultaneously without an overhand grip. But I'd say it's a better pad than, say, the SMS controller.

I like the 7800, myself. Pretty nice Commando port with some of its own unique elements, an odd game named Midnight Mutants with a strange licensing of Grandpa Munster that's actually fun to play, some nice GCC arcade ports, and nice homebrews like Jr. Pac-Man, Failsafe and Beef Drop.

I've been looking for that Commando port. It's one of the reasons I wanted the system. I'm also excited about some of the homebrews, like that port of Frenzy that just came out. And I hear good things about Midnight Mutants, though I'm a little hesitant-- it looks a bit like "if you want a NES-style game for 7800 this is close", but maybe not quite in "great game" territory.

In other news, I picked up some more 7800 games:

Dig Dug and Food Fight - both great ports. Food Fight in particular is pretty cool considering it's an arena shooter with a few neat twists that didn't get many home versions. And Dig Dug may be one of the best ports I've played. It plays like the arcade one and the graphics are really vivid. There's a solidity to 7800 graphics that I like that isn't there in NES or C64. It's a shame the system tanked so hard.

Karateka - OK, so I thought all the negative reviews were just people who didn't like Karateka. Even the original version is an acquired taste. But this is just awful. The controls are amazingly unresponsive and it's pretty choppy. Talk about a missed opportunity-- along with the impossible Impossible Mission

Super Skateboardin' - Speaking of disappointment, this is a Skateboarding Game In Name Only. When you think skateboarding you think of pulling off mad tricks at a skate park or down an alleyway or something, right? Well, in this game, you turn off lights in a factory to conserve energy. For real. No, I'm not kidding. As far as I can tell, the only stunt you have is "jump", and there don't seem to be any enemies to avoid. Just hit switches and memorize the factory layout. This kind of halfbaked junk I'm certain contributed to the 7800's downfall: It's a skateboard game that appears to not understand at all why kids liked skateboarding. I don't think I've ever seen something miss the mark this much.

Oh! And I discovered some 2600 games I didn't know about which seem really cool:

Fathom - an Atari Ecco the Dolphin? Is this the original inspiration? It sure seems it.

Pressure Cooker - you work at a fast food joint and have to fill orders accurately and quickly. It's really clever, and really hard. I haven't felt this stoked for a 2600 game I hadn't known about since I discovered Frostbite.

Cosmic Commuter - This looks really cool. I haven't tried it yet, but it's designed by the H.E.R.O. guy. And H.E.R.O. is one of the best games of that decade, IMO.

I can't believe I hadn't heard of these!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Here are some more cool 7800 games worth checking out:

7800 port of Xenophobe is ace & has support for up to two players. Second player can join in at any time, of course.

7800 game of Dark Chambers plays like Gauntlet -- just beware that the enemy character, Death, will aim for you regardless of how many bombs you have in your inventory.

7800 port of Lucasgames' Ballblazer has a sliky-smooth framerate indeed.

7800 port of the isometric scrolling shmup of Desert Falcon has a whopping 512 different possible combos to check out to implement a secret Warp, extra life, bonus points, rapid fire, (you can enable super "problem" power-ups such as Shackles, hover, Broken Wing, etc. which changes the gameplay quite drastically at times, resulting in the loss of a life). It's possible to find a safe spot and rack up some serious points, free for the taking (and earn some extra lives in the process also). Spent the better part of an entire day figuring out the various combos and what they do -- some of the same combos will have different results if played on a lower or higher difficulty setting. The on-board "Pause" button on the 7800 console itself, is your best bet to quickly jot down the combos and the end result of what it gives you = priceless.

7800 port of Robotron does a fine job replicating the twin joystick scheme of the original Williams classic of the same name -- just need to place both 7800 Pro-line controllers inside a custom-made case so that they don't move or budge but are able to access the joysticks).

What's interesting about that 7800 port of Food Fight is, the replay screen during a demo run is your own replay (if you manage to do an awesome run during a wave or eat an ice cream cone at the very last second).

Yeah, those 7800 joypads were released sold in Europe (despite the American promotional 7800 flyers with a 7800 ProSystem console shown with a pair of 7800 themed joypads).

The only 7800 lightgun-based game is none other than Barnyard Blaster from the likes of Atari Corp. themselves.

The NTSC version of the 7800 shmup, Planet Smashers, was released back in late 1989 with a MSRP of $29.99 USD. Atari Corp. did release a 7800 PAL version of Planet Smashers for the European 7800 market as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ApolloBoy]

The only 7800 lightgun-based game is none other than Barnyard Blaster from the likes of Atari Corp. themselves.

Actually it's not the only light gun game, Meltdown and Sentinel (a European-only release) also require the light gun and both Alien Brigade and Crossbow support it.

[louisg]

The only 7800 lightgun-based game is none other than Barnyard Blaster from the likes of Atari Corp. themselves.

Actually it's not the only light gun game, Meltdown and Sentinel (a European-only release) also require the light gun and both Alien Brigade and Crossbow support it.

Hah, oh man, I remember Alien Brigade being advertised in Game Players mag. The Crossbow port seems intriguing.

7800 port of Robotron does a fine job replicating the twin joystick scheme of the original Williams classic of the same name -- just need to place both 7800 Pro-line controllers inside a custom-made case so that they don't move or budge but are able to access the joysticks).

Hmm, isn't that a no-button game when you're using two joysticks? Couldn't you use two of the square Atari sticks instead? That might be a lot easier.

Yep, I'm really looking forward to Ball Blazer. I heard the Xenophobe is only OKish, but I love the Lynx one so I'm looking for that one as well. How is Jinks, BTW? Worth checking out? I like the concept a lot.

Re: Dark Chambers-- I recently acquired the 2600 edition, and it's not bad! I've been enjoying it. It's slower than Gauntlet and more moody, but taken on its own terms it's really sort of cool. I would've loved it back when I was mostly playing 2600 still.

[SuperGrafx]

Re: Dark Chambers-- I recently acquired the 2600 edition, and it's not bad! I've been enjoying it. It's slower than Gauntlet and more moody, but taken on its own terms it's really sort of cool. I would've loved it back when I was mostly playing 2600 still.

Ah Dark Chambers!
The 2600 version was quite a feat. It really reminded me of an enhanced version of BERZERK with Adventure/RPG/Gauntlet elements. Never did get to try the 7800 version, but I'm sure it's a noticeable upgrade.

[louisg]

Re: Dark Chambers-- I recently acquired the 2600 edition, and it's not bad! I've been enjoying it. It's slower than Gauntlet and more moody, but taken on its own terms it's really sort of cool. I would've loved it back when I was mostly playing 2600 still.

Ah Dark Chambers!
The 2600 version was quite a feat. It really reminded me of an enhanced version of BERZERK with Adventure/RPG/Gauntlet elements. Never did get to try the 7800 version, but I'm sure it's a noticeable upgrade.

Yeah, it's got some neat elements. I do wish it was a little faster and more arcady like Berzerk, but what's there is cool.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Thanks for the 411 on those other 7800 lightgun games. Fascinating to learn more of them.

Yes, I do have the 7800 game of Jinks! It does have a bit of digitized speech present but only on the main title screen. The actual game is like Super Breakout and Arkanoid hybrid but with some novel twists of it's own. I wasn't sure if the 7800 console was capable of digitized speech but with a copy of Jinks!, that question is answered promptly.

If you boot up the 7800 port of Xevious, you'll see a (C)1984 date...curiously though, it wasn't properly released until 1987.

The 2600 port of Stargate comes with a full-color manual...it was re-released as a 2600 Defender II port (with Williams doing the main titles for posterity). How cool is that? Plus, Stargate & Defender II have support to use two joysticks at the same time (or you could use an optional 2600 Track & Field controller placed in player 2's game controller port for dedicated seperate button functionality if so desired to use Inviso, smart bombs and hyperspace at a moments notice during some heated waves).

The 7800 port of Dark Chambers has one or two players (working together) trying to clear all 26 levels (A through Z) to get the cool golden & silver chalice swag/treasure...they're worth some major points. Some levels will have you backtracking your steps to find the exit, indeed.

I've always enjoyed playing the 7800 port of Xenophobe...it has some cool little embellishments in the background scenery worth noting. Trying to use the poofer gun on the full grown Xenos will sometimes cause it to explode and thus, leaving you with your bare fists to duke it out (usually means having your health drained away just a tad bit quicker).

The 2600 port of Imagic's Moonsweeper is ace stuff...there are some slick graphical tricks in this particular game that the ol' 2600 could pull off in the hands of a talented developer. It was certainly ahead of it's time when it made it's debut back in 1983.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ApolloBoy]

If you boot up the 7800 port of Xevious, you'll see a (C)1984 date...curiously though, it wasn't properly released until 1987.

That's because Xevious was programmed in 1984 and was going to be released alongside the 7800 that year until Jack Tramiel came in and bought the consumer division of Atari, forming Atari Corp. in the process. Atari Corp. basically spent the rest of 1984 and much of 1985 working out various contractual issues between them, Warner and General Computer (the second-party company that designed the 7800 and programmed all the launch titles), so the 7800 got delayed until early '86. That's when Xevious was released alongside games like Asteroids, Ms. Pac-Man, Joust, etc.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Crossbow port seems intriguing.

It's an Exidy port? All the Exidy original arcade games are guilty pleasures...or not-so-guilty...well yes I am playing Chiller, thank you for noticing!

[louisg]

The Crossbow port seems intriguing.

It's an Exidy port? All the Exidy original arcade games are guilty pleasures...or not-so-guilty...well yes I am playing Chiller, thank you for noticing!

Chiller is one of the few games to actually make me kinda sick to my stomach. I think everyone at Exidy was too stoned to notice what a horrible idea that game was.

BTW if you like Exidy stuff, the ColecoVision is your system. Lots of really good ports of Exidy games-- at least Venture and Pepper II come to mind. I *think* there's more.

[BrianC]

Hmm, isn't that a no-button game when you're using two joysticks? Couldn't you use two of the square Atari sticks instead? That might be a lot easier.

You could (and if you have the Atari 800 Robotron box, it has a holder for the joysticks), but I used a Genesis pad in one hand and a Genesis stick with the other (since the stick stays put and the pad is easier to use with just the left hand).

All this talk of Berzerk, Exidy stuff, and Colecovision and no mention of Frenzy, Berzerk's sequel? That is one of my favorites on the system and very awesome. It plays similar, but adds shootable walls, walls that reflect shots, another enemy type, shootable Evil Otto, and a room with a big Evil Otto that punishes you for shooting Evil Otto. Pepper II, Venture, and Ladybug (I also like the homebrew 2600 version) are also good stuff. There's also Victory, but the US version has a major bug, though the EU version can be played on US systems and has the bug fixed.

The games GCC was involved with for 7800 were Ballblazer, Desert Falcon, Asteroids, Centipede, Xevious, Robotron 2084, Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Galaga, Food Fight, and Dig Dug. I think they also were involved with porting the 7800 Rescue on Fractalus. Too bad that version was never finished since the proto looked promising.

I don't have the 7800 Karateka, but it definitely sounds like a terrible port. I have the Atari 800 version on disk and like that version quite a bit. It definitely plays better with keyboard than with joystick, as well.

[louisg]

All this talk of Berzerk, Exidy stuff, and Colecovision and no mention of Frenzy, Berzerk's sequel? That is one of my favorites on the system and very awesome. It plays similar, but adds shootable walls, walls that reflect shots, another enemy type, shootable Evil Otto, and a room with a big Evil Otto that punishes you for shooting Evil Otto. Pepper II, Venture, and Ladybug (I also like the homebrew 2600 version) are also good stuff. There's also Victory, but the US version has a major bug, though the EU version can be played on US systems and has the bug fixed.

YES! There should be a discussion of Frenzy. It has some other room types too besides plain and the huge Evil Otto, right? BTW: http://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=p ... ail&p=1029 -- new for 7800 Good timing, right?

But Berzerk and Frenzy are Stern, right? Not Exidy..?

7800 Rescue on Fractalus. Too bad that version was never finished since the proto looked promising.

I wonder how done it is. Maybe I could get a repro. I love Rescue on Fractalus, and if the 7800 runs faster than the C64 version, that might be really promising.

BTW, I started a Trading Station thread-- I'm looking to buy some more 7800 stuff if anyone wants to sell!

[BrianC]

I wonder how done it is. Maybe I could get a repro. I love Rescue on Fractalus, and if the 7800 runs faster than the C64 version, that might be really promising.

AtariProtos.com has info on it here.

Doh. Yes, Berzerk and Frenzy are Stern. Silly me. Not sure why I was thinking Exidy.

[dave4shmups]

I own both a 3DO and an Atari Jaguar, and, IMO, they are both overlooked, wonderful consoles to own! For anyone interested in overlooked and rare consoles, you've got to check out the Youtube channel of Gamester81! This guy just about owns it all, when it comes to the obscure category! Here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gamester81

I would love to get a Philips CD-i, but they go for ridiculous amounts of money on Ebay, and most don't even come with the digital video cartridge.

[trap15]

[...] Atari Jaguar [...] wonderful console

Ha Ha Ha.

[louisg]

[...] Atari Jaguar [...] wonderful console

Ha Ha Ha.

Yeah I think the Jag may be Atari's weakest console. I think the 3do is more undeservedly overlooked, though all the decent 3do games got ports where there are still some pretty decent seeming games that are only on Jaguar. And last time I was thinking the Jaguar was horrible I was still able to name several good games for it off the top of my head, so maybe it's not as bad as I remember. I'll probably get one of those eventually

BTW anyone ever play the Jag CD Blue Lightning? I loved the Lynx one. I wonder if the Jaguar edition is as good.

[CIT]

My classmate back in the day had a multi-game Soviet Pong clone. Quite a few games on it, also, various controllers (lightguns included). The squash game seemed most playable if you ask me. I doubt it would be of much use on 60 Hz-only TVs.

You should ask him if he still has it. Likely a huge collector's item. The East German pong console is very rare and expensive today.

[BrianC]

I'm not too interested in the Jaguar, but any console with a game as good as Tempest 2000 isn't all bad. I definitely plan to pick up a Lynx since that does have some neat games, though.

[louisg]

I'm not too interested in the Jaguar, but any console with a game as good as Tempest 2000 isn't all bad. I definitely plan to pick up a Lynx since that does have some neat games, though.

Lynx has some really cool stuff for it. It may be Atari's second-best game system (not counting the 8-bit home computers, of course). It's too bad there's no emulator that does multiplayer since so much stuff was geared for it.

BTW, if you get one, there's one hidden gem I'd recommend without hesitation: Battle Wheels. If you ever liked stuff like T-Mek, this one is better. It's a little like Car Wars, too, in that you can design your own machines.

[Specineff]

BTW anyone ever play the Jag CD Blue Lightning? I loved the Lynx one. I wonder if the Jaguar edition is as good.

It isn't. By comparison, it makes River Raid look like Ace Combat 2.

[louisg]

BTW anyone ever play the Jag CD Blue Lightning? I loved the Lynx one. I wonder if the Jaguar edition is as good.

It isn't. By comparison, it makes River Raid look like Ace Combat 2.

Hmm, that's a shame. Atari really had it pretty set since they dominated the market in the early 80s but, kinda like Sega's console division in the mid-90s, it seems like they were determined to screw up every damn thing they touched.

[dave4shmups]

[...] Atari Jaguar [...] wonderful console

Ha Ha Ha.

Yeah I think the Jag may be Atari's weakest console. I think the 3do is more undeservedly overlooked, though all the decent 3do games got ports where there are still some pretty decent seeming games that are only on Jaguar. And last time I was thinking the Jaguar was horrible I was still able to name several good games for it off the top of my head, so maybe it's not as bad as I remember. I'll probably get one of those eventually

BTW anyone ever play the Jag CD Blue Lightning? I loved the Lynx one. I wonder if the Jaguar edition is as good.

I definitely think it's Atari's weakest console, but it is still fun to play, IMO. The biggest problem that I have with it now is the absurd cost of some of the games. For example, Defender 2000, complete on Ebay, will cost you $100. So will Breakout 2000. I'd love to get the Jaguar CD-ROM unit, but those go for even more money. Although, I know that people on the Atariage forums would give me a fair price for one.

The main appeal of the 3DO for me is that it's got a lot of DOS ports, like Need For Speed, and I never used DOS, and never played any DOS games back in the day. It's also got some from the Macintosh, like Super Wing Commander, and the Shockwave series. And, speaking of Shockwave, the 3DO has a lot of really great vehicular shooters.

[brentsg]

When I was a kid there was a neighbor with an Odyssey 2. It was a lot of fun but I really only remember KC Munchkin.

And yeah, I'd buy a Jaguar even it Tempest 2K was soldered in.

[Lord Satori]

Last year I got an Intelivision II from my grandpa. (there's some other assorted junk along with it as well) It has a missing cable or something so I never used it, but I heard it was the first 16 bit console or something so that's pretty cool.

[louisg]

I definitely think it's Atari's weakest console, but it is still fun to play, IMO. The biggest problem that I have with it now is the absurd cost of some of the games. For example, Defender 2000, complete on Ebay, will cost you $100. So will Breakout 2000. I'd love to get the Jaguar CD-ROM unit, but those go for even more money. Although, I know that people on the Atariage forums would give me a fair price for one.

Yeah, it's too bad; I hear Defender 2000 is good. Was there anything that great on Jag CD?

The thing that bugs me the most about the Jaguar is that I hear Checkered Flag was no good. I liked the Lynx one, and I love Virtua Racing as well as other old polygon racers. Oh well :/

The main appeal of the 3DO for me is that it's got a lot of DOS ports, like Need For Speed, and I never used DOS, and never played any DOS games back in the day. It's also got some from the Macintosh, like Super Wing Commander, and the Shockwave series. And, speaking of Shockwave, the 3DO has a lot of really great vehicular shooters.

Well, don't forget that most of those 3do games are actually 3do originals! Need for Speed, the 32-bit Road Rash, Return Fire .. those were on 3do before they were on DOS/Windows or anything else. And Jag had T2k and Rayman before other consoles got them.

[dave4shmups]

I definitely think it's Atari's weakest console, but it is still fun to play, IMO. The biggest problem that I have with it now is the absurd cost of some of the games. For example, Defender 2000, complete on Ebay, will cost you $100. So will Breakout 2000. I'd love to get the Jaguar CD-ROM unit, but those go for even more money. Although, I know that people on the Atariage forums would give me a fair price for one.

Yeah, it's too bad; I hear Defender 2000 is good. Was there anything that great on Jag CD?

The thing that bugs me the most about the Jaguar is that I hear Checkered Flag was no good. I liked the Lynx one, and I love Virtua Racing as well as other old polygon racers. Oh well :/

The main appeal of the 3DO for me is that it's got a lot of DOS ports, like Need For Speed, and I never used DOS, and never played any DOS games back in the day. It's also got some from the Macintosh, like Super Wing Commander, and the Shockwave series. And, speaking of Shockwave, the 3DO has a lot of really great vehicular shooters.

Well, don't forget that most of those 3do games are actually 3do originals! Need for Speed, the 32-bit Road Rash, Return Fire .. those were on 3do before they were on DOS/Windows or anything else. And Jag had T2k and Rayman before other consoles got them.

Iron Soldier 2 is on the Jaguar CD, but is another really expensive game. Last year, I got an Intellivision III (INTV III), and I loved the controllers on it; I thought they were very comfortable and precise. And there are some awesome games for the Intellivision! But the Intellivision III that I got from Ebay had issues-when I would play a game like Astrosmash, the screen/picture would jump every time there was a sound in the game, and that got really annoying. It also happened with other games, like the excellent Intellivison port of Atlantis. Perhaps I should try getting an original Intellivision (I've heard that the controllers aren't as comfortable on the Intellivision 2, and I know that it has compatibility issues) and that would work better. Because I still have my games.