XRGB-mini Framemeister

[EmperorZelos]

I noticed an interesting phenomena if some of you have an explination

I have a gamecube and when it goes straight to the XRGB mini, framemeister, it fucks up and can't show picture, when I put it through 1 scart switch same thing but a little less, but when it goes 2 identical scart switches, it has no issue, what could that be? I don't mind as it works I am curious for a possible explination

Well it works for the most part, it is one of those automatic switches that has been discussed,

[Fudoh]

Your comment really makes me feel that we're using technically different XRGB-mini units

I think it's source related. Different systems (although all 480p) play differently well with the Mini's component or HDMI input. I have seen the same directly on my Sony (the W6 one) where component from a PS2 looks breathtakingly good, but XBox1 looks rather weak and much better through HDMI.

[pyrotek85]

Your comment really makes me feel that we're using technically different XRGB-mini units

I think it's source related. Different systems (although all 480p) play differently well with the Mini's component or HDMI input. I have seen the same directly on my Sony (the W6 one) where component from a PS2 looks breathtakingly good, but XBox1 looks rather weak and much better through HDMI.

That goes especially for the Wii (or mine at least). It's component out looks like garbage, but thankfully the same games look really nice when upscaled with a Wii U and out through it's HDMI. I think that's been a common complaint of Wii systems if I'm not mistaken. But on the other hand Gamecube looks pretty nice with component and the Mini, and PS2 as well like you said.

[BuckoA51]

I can take my Wii to a friends, put it directly to his Panasonic Plasma and it looks great...Try as I might with various scalers I can't get it looking anything other than just okay here in my own home.

The Wii is weird.

[pyrotek85]

I can take my Wii to a friends, put it directly to his Panasonic Plasma and it looks great...Try as I might with various scalers I can't get it looking anything other than just okay here in my own home.

The Wii is weird.

I can believe that. Unfortunately for me I don't have a component input to use (using a PC monitor) so its either the mini or the Wii U. The latter of which looks quite clean and crisp, better than I've ever seen aside from the Dolphin emulator.

But I'm definitely open to the possibility that mine is just extra bad.

[dark1x]

Weird question...

I picked up a PAL Gamecube today as I ran across a second hand system for less than 15 Euro and since I now live in Europe it's easier to obtain PAL discs.

I'm inputting the system into the Mini and the results aren't quite what I had hoped.

I have a couple RGB SCART cables for the SNES. The one which works with the SNES does not work with the GC and vice versa. The Gamecube video quality, however, isn't quite as good as I would have hoped. I can definitely detect plenty of noise in the image. The Mini claims to be receiving RGB input and the picture is better than what you'd get using composite but it is still much noisier than any other RGB source I have. What could be causing this I wonder? The artifacts appear in both 50 and 60 Hz modes (all of the games I have utilize 60 Hz anyways).

Video quality is actually superior using s-video on my NTSC GC (that cable doesn't seem to work with the PAL GC).

Samples - look closely around text and transparent areas. You can see the artifacting.

[GohanX]

I'm considering getting a XRGB Mini but I'm wondering if a Wii using component/D-terminal and running VC/Emulation would look as good as the original consoles using RGB. I currently have the Wii through component on a Sony PVM which looks great but I'm wondering if its worth getting the XRGB for the larger screen and better looking (?) Wii games. I'd like to eventually get all the retro consoles but for now I'm just taste testing with Wii emulators and VC. Mainly worried right now if the emulators and VC look as good as they can through component on a PVM and eventually a XRGB Mini if I decide to get one. I have them running in 240p (if able).

This post is a few weeks old so hopefully the poster sees this, but I thought I might chime in here.

With my experiences, the Wii hooked up through component to the Framemeister just looked bad, and VC games in particular were terrible, either in 240p or 480p modes. I just hooked the Wii directly to the TV, it looked better that way, although it didn't compare to how good most of the VC looked on a SDTV.

The Wii U, on the other hand, works great. When playing Wii U games I just use the HDMI bypass feature, and when playing SNES games (either in Wii U or regular Wii modes) I set the machine to be 480p and use scanlines. They look fantastic for the most part, almost exactly like a real SNES hooked up with RGB. I actually prefer this to a real SNES now since I like the Classic Controller Pro more than a real SNES pad. I did have an issue with one game, Megaman X2 looks too dark in Wii U mode for some reason, with or without scanlines. All other VC games (including X1) look fine. I downloaded X2 on the Wii side and it looks great. Weird.

NES stuff is a mixed bag. The Wii U has some weird filtering going on for NES games, and I find that it looks best to me to leave scanlines off. In regular Wii mode they look fine with scanlines just like the SNES games. I only have a couple of NES games on the Wii mode though, so I haven't thoroughly tested it.

I don't have too many non SNES VC games on the Wii side, but the Genesis games I have look great, Turbografx is a mixed bag (Dracula X looked awesome, Super Star Solder is a fuzzy mess, but it was like that on a SDTV too) and N64 looks pretty good with no scanlines.

[pyrotek85]

That's pretty much been my experience. Low res stuff on the Wii's component just looks blurry, quality is a lot closer to composite at times. My hunch is that it just doesn't produce a clean signal, and the Mini might be making it worse when it tries to scale it.

[jamisonia]

I have a Panasonic ST30 Plasma. The Wii for the most part looks fantastic on it via component. The only ugly game off the top of my head is Skyward Sword. Those graphics just didn't upconvert well for some reason. I've messed around using the Mini with it via component, and it just doesn't look as good. The colors are especially bad. The TV makes it look so much better.

I did finally confirm that my TV does in fact overscan 2.5% on SD material, and you cannot shut it off. I connected my PS3 with Digital Video Essentials and set the PS3 to 480p output. On HDMI direct mode the TV overscanned the test image. So this also confirms that the Wii does in fact natively underscan a bit. In this case I also prefer sending the Wii direct to my TV as it fully fills the screen.

I have a question about what exactly the difference between Normal 2 and Standard is. I know that Normal 2 fills more of the 4:3 area, but is Standard the 1:1 pixel map of those older games?

[Fudoh]

I have a question about what exactly the difference between Normal 2 and Standard is

can't be generalized and depends on how much of the horizontal scan area is actually used by the source system. On some systems it doesn't make a difference, sometimes Normal 2 makes the screen appear narrower, sometimes it makes it wider. In general both are fine and should be used on a per-system per-personal-taste basis.

[Sixfortyfive]

That goes especially for the Wii (or mine at least). It's component out looks like garbage, but thankfully the same games look really nice when upscaled with a Wii U and out through it's HDMI. I think that's been a common complaint of Wii systems if I'm not mistaken.

It looks almost 100% identical between the two systems on 480p to me.

[TheDrifter363]

Hey everyone,

I just got my xrgb mini and I've been testing it out and I noticed some strange problems. There's some strange interference that is most noticeable with black screens, this happens with every console regardless of connection. It happend with my wii connected via component and my n64 connected via s video. I've ruled out the tv and the hdmi cable so I don't know what else is the issue. I've uploaded two youtube videos. One will attempt to show the interference and the other is just bad pixelation. I thought the xrgb mini was supposed to be pretty good at upscaling quality but to me my n64 looks the same as when it's plugged into my tv. At least the pixelation hasn't changed.

Pixelation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdcF8RHapI

Interference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlUTxmxhZfM

Any advice would be appreciated. I bought the unit from solaris japan and I updated it to the latest 1.10 firmware in english. I will see if I can see the same interference with ps2 via component.

Edit: Tried it out with the ps2 via component, same interference. Since the ps2's main menu is black it's pretty noticeable. Here's another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOpq2JunclE

It's really hard to capture the interference since it's most pronounced on black backgrounds. My apologies if it's hard to tell.

[Fudoh]

The PS2's component signal is quite noisy. That's what the XRGB picks up. If you change to RGB it will mostly gone.

Pixelation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdcF8RHapI

looks pretty good to me. After all the XRGB is about keeping the "pixels" intact. If you want a more smoothed result, change the scaling settings (e.g. from the game to the video preset).

[eightbitminiboss]

N64 just looks bad in general. Recommend turning on scanlines to at least make it palatable.

[pyrotek85]

N64 just looks bad in general. Recommend turning on scanlines to at least make it palatable.

With or without the RGB mod? With the mod, I think it looks quite good. The Mini seems to handle 240p sources very well in general.

[TheDrifter363]

I guess I can't help the pixelation. I don't know I thought it would look better. To me I haven't noticed much of an improvement in the image, maybe I'm not looking hard enough. The one thing I am noticing it is that weird noise/interference. When I connect my consoles directly to my tv the blackness is a solid color however with the mini there's some weird distortions all around the blackness. It's annoying because I can't pinpoint the source. I've had similar distortions usually with crappy power supplies but those were far worse than what I'm seeing. Maybe this is how the mini functions but tell me why don't I see this when the consoles are plugged in directly. Both my tv and the mini are converting analog signals to digital, you would think my tv would show these distortions also. Hmm....I need to find a high quality 5v power supply to test it out. I wish I had another mini or some other people to compare it with. Unfortunately I do not know anyone else with this device.

By the way what does a/d level do? The distortions are more visible the higher the brightness of my tv is. That and they seemed to increase when I increased the a/d level.

[Yamato]

I think it's source related. Different systems (although all 480p) play differently well with the Mini's component or HDMI input.

Ok, that would make sense. I was a little bit confused, because you said that you wouldn't use the Mini for 480p upscaling in general (except for easy scanlines of course). But didn't you mean in that way, that the sampling on the horizontal is off on ALL systems with 480p?

I have a question about what exactly the difference between Normal 2 and Standard is.

From my experiences Normal2 keeps the original intended 4:3 or 16:9 TV aspect ratio. This is useful when a systems actually renders a narrower picture internally. A purist like me will always want that classic television aspect ratio

[Fudoh]

But didn't you mean in that way, that the sampling on the horizontal is off on ALL systems with 480p?

most of the possible 480p sources I haven't tried since the earliest FW revisions. Let me retry some over the next days. PS2 is certainly off and NTSC Gamecube through component is as well.

[ckoz]

Quick question. I just ordered an SNES RGB scart lead from Retrogamingcables and I didn't realize I had a choice between composite video and composite sync. I got composite video. Is that okay or did I get the wrong one?

[Fudoh]

doesn't matter for NTSC systems. On PAL systems the composite video can cause some weird patterns on solid colors.

[broken harbour]

A buddy brought his N64 over a few weeks back, and I used an S-video cable from my SNES on it, it looked pretty bad on the XRGB Mini, it was really blurry, even when I messed with the scaler settings it just didn't look good. And I don't mean blurry in the N64 blurry texture way, I mean there was no sharpness at all, it almost looked to be of composite quality. I use S-Video from my 3DO and it looks a hundred times better.

Any recommended settings for S-Video/N64? My wife just bought me an N64 as a surprise gift!

[eightbitminiboss]

N64 just looks bad in general. Recommend turning on scanlines to at least make it palatable.

With or without the RGB mod? With the mod, I think it looks quite good. The Mini seems to handle 240p sources very well in general.

I'm RGB modded and it still looks pretty rough on most games at least to me.

[EmperorZelos]

I'm RGB modded and it still looks pretty rough on most games at least to me.

Does that mean when I hook you up to a TV you give me high quality picture?

[Ed Oscuro]

480i only, he's nearsighted

[eightbitminiboss]

I'm RGB modded and it still looks pretty rough on most games at least to me.

Does that mean when I hook you up to a TV you give me high quality picture?

My vision is augmented.

[Ed Oscuro]

Did you ask for this?

[Galgomite]

I'm considering grabbing a 4:3 Sony CRT HDTV on craigslist and connecting through my Mini via 720p to add scanlines. My aim is a PVM kind of experience on a big screen. Has anyone tried this? Are the scanlines even? (I'm presuming that a Sony HDTV, even a CRT model, would not have scan lines on its own. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Fudoh]

I haven't tried on a Sony HD CRT, but I did on another HD tube last a year ago or so. Looks quite good, but you have to increase the scanline density quite a bit.

[TheDrifter363]

I know crts are a naturally analog medium so won't progressive content be lost on them. Does the mini support interlaced display resolutions like 1080i?

On another note, if anyone is still using their xrgb mini power supply is this the type of power supply that was shipped with yours:

Jet

Model: M05230
AC 100v 29VA 50/60 Hz
DC 5v 2.3a
-- _____ (o _____ +

Made in china

This is the power supply I received. It could be contributing noise to my mini. I've had an issue with a crappy ebay power supply before where noise was introduced. I bought a new 5v 3a power supply that I will see how it works. The brand was mean well, I've bought them before for my nes and psone and they're really good. No noise when using them with both consoles.

[Fudoh]

I know crts are a naturally analog medium so won't progressive content be lost on them. Does the mini support interlaced display resolutions like 1080i?

The Mini does support 1080i output, yes. But why wouldn't 720p work on a CRT (that supports it) ? There have been ED tubes which only supported 480p and 1080i (540p), but there also have been HD tubes which support 720p just fine. Dont' forget that 1080i equals D3, while 720p is D4, not the other way around.