XRGB-mini Framemeister

[juji82]

still having the issue with scalines & vertical scrolling over light/white backgrounds, really hoping to resolve that sometime without having to tone down said lines too much.

anyone have suggestions for getting a DC's VGA into an XRGB the best way? i have this VGA box:



and the monoprice powered HDMI converter but the wiki says that's not ideal, and i hate having extra cords/power slots. the creator of the Hanzo over @ assemblergames says he's working on a Kenzai, but if i want an RGB option (to play Bangai-O, as well as see which option looks better per game) he says i'd have to purchase a Hanzo as well, presumably after selling my current box. Anyone know of a better/cheaper way?

Hanzo + Kenzei from beharius I think it is the best combo you can find out.

[BuckoA51]

You can modify that VGA box to add a 15khz option if you don't want to buy a new one.

[bodine1231]

I'm considering getting a XRGB Mini but I'm wondering if a Wii using component/D-terminal and running VC/Emulation would look as good as the original consoles using RGB. I currently have the Wii through component on a Sony PVM which looks great but I'm wondering if its worth getting the XRGB for the larger screen and better looking (?) Wii games. I'd like to eventually get all the retro consoles but for now I'm just taste testing with Wii emulators and VC. Mainly worried right now if the emulators and VC look as good as they can through component on a PVM and eventually a XRGB Mini if I decide to get one. I have them running in 240p (if able).

[pegboy]

I'm considering getting a XRGB Mini but I'm wondering if a Wii using component/D-terminal and running VC/Emulation would look as good as the original consoles using RGB. I currently have the Wii through component on a Sony PVM which looks great but I'm wondering if its worth getting the XRGB for the larger screen and better looking (?) Wii games. I'd like to eventually get all the retro consoles but for now I'm just taste testing with Wii emulators and VC. Mainly worried right now if the emulators and VC look as good as they can through component on a PVM and eventually a XRGB Mini if I decide to get one. I have them running in 240p (if able).

I have the exact same question with respect to the gamecube. I even have a framemeister and the d-terminal component cable. What settings should i use for Gamecube or Wii with component cables?

[eightbitminiboss]

I'm considering getting a XRGB Mini but I'm wondering if a Wii using component/D-terminal and running VC/Emulation would look as good as the original consoles using RGB. I currently have the Wii through component on a Sony PVM which looks great but I'm wondering if its worth getting the XRGB for the larger screen and better looking (?) Wii games. I'd like to eventually get all the retro consoles but for now I'm just taste testing with Wii emulators and VC. Mainly worried right now if the emulators and VC look as good as they can through component on a PVM and eventually a XRGB Mini if I decide to get one. I have them running in 240p (if able).

I have the exact same question with respect to the gamecube. I even have a framemeister and the d-terminal component cable. What settings should i use for Gamecube or Wii with component cables?

The wiki should get you started.

[BuckoA51]

if a Wii using component/D-terminal and running VC/Emulation would look as good as the original consoles using RGB.

No, the Wii's video quality is generally pretty poor.

[IrishNinja]

Hanzo + Kenzei from beharius I think it is the best combo you can find out.

yeah, starting to think that as well - gonna wait on the Kenzai's release this week or so for pricing, hopefully he'll offer a combo that works for me.

You can modify that VGA box to add a 15khz option if you don't want to buy a new one.

forgive my ignorance, but a) would this be for an RGB option, and b) how would i go about this?

[darcagn]

anyone have suggestions for getting a DC's VGA into an XRGB the best way? i have this VGA box:



and the monoprice powered HDMI converter but the wiki says that's not ideal, and i hate having extra cords/power slots. the creator of the Hanzo over @ assemblergames says he's working on a Kenzai, but if i want an RGB option (to play Bangai-O, as well as see which option looks better per game) he says i'd have to purchase a Hanzo as well, presumably after selling my current box. Anyone know of a better/cheaper way?

Yes, the Dreamcast has the option to output 15KHz RGBS (standard RGB/SCART) or 31KHz RGBHV (VGA/480p). The RGB-in port on the XRGB-mini Framemeister can actually take 31KHz RGBS, which is not a standard video signal, but you can create it from the 480p VGA signal by modding a VGA box. The Kenzai uses the same approach to connect the Dreamcast to the XRGB-mini as my mod, and beharius and I spoke about it as he had questions for me when doing research about compatibility. The VGA box that you have is the same one that I own and modded myself for this.

If you're interested in doing this, you will need to be able to solder, and you'll also need a soldering iron, a dremel, and about $20 in parts.


(Also apply ground to leg 8 and +5v to leg 1)
This is the circuit I used, and it requires these components:

C1: 22 uF 10V electrolytic
C2: 22 uF 10V electrolytic
R1: 2.2 kohm
R2: 2.2 kohm
U1: 74LS86 or 74HCT86

Dremel a hole in the case and create a new connector with 8 pins; I used a DIN8 connector. Wire up the pins with any pinout you choose using red, green, blue, composite-sync, ground, +5v, left-audio, and right-audio. You can grab the R/G/B from the VGA port pins and the left-audio/right-audio from the headphone jack pins, and ground/5v are pins 1 and 5 on the cable coming from the Dreamcast AV port (check with multimeter to be sure of these, though). For the sync, you will need to wire up the circuit with the chip above to take the horizontal-sync and vertical-sync from the VGA pins and combine them into composite-sync. Wire that up to the connector, make an appropriate SCART or RGB21 cable for the custom connector you added to the VGA box.

In addition, you can wire up a switch with pin 4 on the AV cord, which is grounded on the VGA box. If you switch it from grounded to just disconnected, it will drop down to RGB mode and work with this same connector. This is useful to play games that don't support VGA mode. Just flick the switch and you will get 240p/480i without needing to change cables or anything.

Here's pictures of mine set up this way:

[fafangus]

Hi,

Here are some capture made with my avermedia live player from the Xrgb-mini (with Xsync-1)

PCE - Rgb Scart - :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYK9-kOe6k0

we can see here the limits of the avermedia (capturing in fps I would say...)

Gamecube on Wii - Component :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRP_4SU8IF0

Dreamcast - with Hanzo Vga Box and UMSA - :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUi9Aa0MOac

Amiga 1200 - Rgb Scart - :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4RRWTTAoqk

Maybe the last two videos are too darker...
The videos should be viewing in 720p mode

[Fudoh]

But there's no reason you actually need an XSync for that capture chain, is there ?

[fafangus]

No lol, but it still connected in my montage so...

In thinking of it, the only capture I made with the xsync is with the PCE and the DC, my Amiga is hooked directly to the mini...

Ps : Here is a video of my X360 hooked with HDMI :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZn2xs3z ... 4-overview

Fba Next...

[Juza]

Hi,
do you still recommend the "Bandridge Premium Performance 5 Way Automatic SCART Selector Switching Box" for mini ?
Is there any sync problem / loss of quality? Are all 5 scarts rgb? Does the automatic model require a power supply?
Thanks.

[mickcris]

Hi,
do you still recommend the "Bandridge Premium Performance 5 Way Automatic SCART Selector Switching Box" for mini ?
Is there any sync problem / loss of quality? Are all 5 scarts rgb? Does the automatic model require a power supply?
Thanks.

I have that switch and it works well.

I have no issues with sync or loss of quality. All 5 ports are RGB. It does require a 12v 500mA power adapter.

[Galgomite]

I was just thinking about how the Mini doesn't offer a way to crop the ugliness that frequently appears at the edges of game screens (Genesis games come to mind). Then I thought of "retro mode." Is that effect just an overlaid .png file? Couldn't someone just replace that file with a different one, say, a normal black frame?

[Fudoh]

The existing retro mode works fine to cover the bottom flicker on MD/GEN. It's just a graphics overlay, but I think it's coded into the FW and is not user replacable.

[Galgomite]

The existing retro mode works fine to cover the bottom flicker on MD/GEN. It's just a graphics overlay, but I think it's coded into the FW and is not user replacable.

Too bad! I hate that overlay. Oh well, thanks for the response.

[bluenote]

My first post here, and I wanted to ask a quick question. I just bought a Framemeister, and will be receiving it in a couple of days. My question is in regards to overscan. For example, Super Mario 3 on Nes has a bar on the left side of the screen (1/2 inch) and a slimmer bar on the right. I know this is due to overscan (this happens with many different NES games that don't have a black background) and I was wondering if the Framemeister can fix this by cropping or another method?

Thanks!

[Konsolkongen]

Doesn't your TV have an overscan option?

[bluenote]

Doesn't your TV have an overscan option?

No, not that I know of

[Konsolkongen]

No, not that I know of

I actually meant to ask Galgomite, but I guess it goes for you as well However I've never been bothered by the colored overscan areas on retro consoles and never by the flickering dots on the Mega Drive either.

EDIT: Are you talking about a white vertical line on the NES? That can be removed by adjusting the H-POS option to about 68-70.

[Yamato]

Another thing I just noticed (not sure if that's new or not), but the scaling engines for 480i and 480p work completely different on the HDMI inputs compared to a component source. (…) On the HDMI inputs the scaling for both 480i and 480p is much more video-optimized. (…)

With a cheap ($30) component to HDMI converter the HDMI inputs now work very well for systems like Wii, XBox, Cube or Playstation 2. Overall I still like my TV's 480p upscaling better (so passthrough for 480p on the Mini), but compared to the broken 480p upscaling on the component input, this is a blessing. Also the color balance is much better on the HDMI inputs (ever noticed those overssaturads reds or greens through component?) and the filtering is much less aggressive. Problems with color banding or noise were gone as well. (…)

I know this information was already posted in November, but I finally got the opportunity to test the Wii with a YUV to HDMI converter over the Mini for myself and would like to add my personal experiences

First I tested the method with Super Mario Galaxy. The Mini was set to 720p output to my Sony HX855 TV.

From my point of view the graphics looked really great. They were in fact a lot softer than via Component directly but this suited the "low res" 480p picture quite well. The picture also seemed "cleaned up" to me. So I actually could turn on the Detail Enhancement on my Sony TV without doing noticeable damage to the picture. Also I can confirm that the colours are much more natural, but Fudoh already wrote that.

I found this way of processing to be overall more appealing than going directly to the HX855 via HDMI (without the Mini in between). I think the Sony's 480p HDMI-upscaling is slightly worse - although the picture seemed more crisper and saturated out of the box, I noticed some more artifacts here and there. So Detail Enhancement couldn't be used anymore for me.

But in fact there is one thing that will make me stay with the Mini's Component input. I tend to play some 2D titles from time to time on the Wii (and in GameCube mode) like the Mega Man X Collection, SNK Arcade Classics, Metal Slug Anthology etc. and those games looked a lot more blurry via HDMI. It's obviously because of the soft, video optimized HDMI scaling. Playing with the scaling engine didn't make a difference. So what turns out to be an advantage for 3D titles is obviously a real disadvantage for crisp 2D titles. Mega Man X Collection i.e. looks perfect to me via Component to Mini. Also, I thought there was more lag on the HDMI inputs, is this possible?

So in the end, I had to decide which compromise is the best for me and I think it's the component input. Or maybe I did something wrong?

[domoe]

Hey everyone. I am having trouble getting RGB video with my Saturn when connecting to the XRGB-mini. I have tried adjusting the sync levels, but the screen just stays on the no_input screen. I am getting audio, but not video.

I am using these cables from retro_console_accessories:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB- ... 2ece956f82

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-ste ... 2588cd056a

I have also tried changing the firmware from 1.10 to 1.08 but I still get no video. I am not sure if it has something to do with the cables or the console. I am able to get video with composite through the XRGB-mini.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

[broken harbour]

Hey everyone. I am having trouble getting RGB video with my Saturn when connecting to the XRGB-mini. I have tried adjusting the sync levels, but the screen just stays on the no_input screen. I am getting audio, but not video.

I am using these cables from retro_console_accessories:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB- ... 2ece956f82

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-ste ... 2588cd056a

I have also tried changing the firmware from 1.10 to 1.08 but I still get no video. I am not sure if it has something to do with the cables or the console. I am able to get video with composite through the XRGB-mini.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

That second link is for a JP scart cable from the looks of it. You need a euro scart cable.

Or you could just connect the scart cable for your saturn directly to the JP to 8 pin cable that comes with your Framemeister.

[mickcris]

Hey everyone. I am having trouble getting RGB video with my Saturn when connecting to the XRGB-mini. I have tried adjusting the sync levels, but the screen just stays on the no_input screen. I am getting audio, but not video.

I am using these cables from retro_console_accessories:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB- ... 2ece956f82

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-ste ... 2588cd056a

I have also tried changing the firmware from 1.10 to 1.08 but I still get no video. I am not sure if it has something to do with the cables or the console. I am able to get video with composite through the XRGB-mini.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

That second link is for a JP scart cable from the looks of it. You need a euro scart cable.

Or you could just connect the scart cable for your saturn directly to the JP to 8 pin cable that comes with your Framemeister.

That is the correct cable for a USA/JAP Saturn:
This cable is fully compatible with the following Sega systems.

Sega Saturn North American models
Sega Saturn Japanese models

She sells a differnt one for PAL consoles:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-ste ... 1153749123

[domoe]

Not sure if it's a problem with the cables or the console. Maybe it's a sync issue and I should have gotten the adapter with sync booster. Ordered a Genesis cable so I will soon find out. I have yet to experience RGB.

[mickcris]

Not sure if it's a problem with the cables or the console. Maybe it's a sync issue and I should have gotten the adapter with sync booster. Ordered a Genesis cable so I will soon find out. I have yet to experience RGB.

edit: this was incorrect

[domoe]

Not sure if it's a problem with the cables or the console. Maybe it's a sync issue and I should have gotten the adapter with sync booster. Ordered a Genesis cable so I will soon find out. I have yet to experience RGB.

Not sure what the issue is, but I doubt the sync booster would help. I assume that cable is wired up using c-sync which is already "boosted". The euro cable is probably getting sync from composite video. here is the pinout and the only difference in the connector between regions is there is voltage on pin 1 instead of c-sync for PAL:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:saturnav

You are using an NTSC console correct?

Yes. My Saturn is NTSC.

[BuckoA51]

The cable you linked to uses composite video for sync. However, this should not be a problem on the mini. Try another console and if you still don't get a picture could be a faulty mini-din adapter.

[mickcris]

The cable you linked to uses composite video for sync. However, this should not be a problem on the mini. Try another console and if you still don't get a picture could be a faulty mini-din adapter.

I have that NTSC cable and I double checked it with a meter. You are correct that it uses composite video as snyc. I dont really know why retro_console_accessories sells a different cable for NTSC and PAL then. Seems the only difference is with Pin 1 and I dont see why the NTSC consoles would need a different cable.

[BuckoA51]

The extra voltage from pin 1 is used to power the RGB up and the widescreen select pins that some SCART TV's use. If you use the NTSC composite video for sync cable on a PAL system normally it works just fine except on some TVs you manually have to select 4:3 aspect.

This is all irrelevant to the mini of course as it doesn't use these signal pins on its mini din, though its worth reminding everyone that you should never connect a raw/pure sync cable to a PAL Saturn.