Nintendo 3DS (XL)

[EmperorIng]

I wouldn't call the Vita a "catastrophic sales failure". It's more like an indie art house pet project from Sony.

That cost millions of dollars in development and marketing and didn't make back the money poured into it. Good thing Sony isn't all corporate or mainstream, or they might have cared.

[replayme]

Vita: the smart little indie powerhouse alternative to a blockbuster obsessed industry.

[CMoon]

Somewhere I made the decision to stop replying to Replayme because he doesn't really listen, he just posts more propaganda, nonetheless, here's my direct suggestions for him:

1) The notion that tablets/phones will replace handhelds (and lots of other things) is a viable topic. I think you should make your own thread about it. The fact that capcom sank its money from Monster Hunter 4 into a mobile game studio supports your idea. Doesn't belong in this thread however. Here's another thread suggestion: "Replayme's 'Why the 3DS sucks" thread.

2) I don't know if you realize you are trolling, but you are...why is a post like this even in the 3DS thread?

Vita: the smart little indie powerhouse alternative to a blockbuster obsessed industry.

Most of the posters here are beyond console wars, so stop wasting the bandwidth.

3) Consider where you're putting your posts and what you're trying to accomplish. It certainly isn't to have an intelligent discussion about games on the 3DS which you haven't (by your own admission) actually played. In reality, you aren't even qualified to talk about the 3DS, so it begs the question why you're posting here.

4) Get a blog. (this has already been covered)

5) I'm not planning on directly responding to any more of your posts, but as you continue to take useful threads off tasks I'll be making friendly suggestions to our mods that your comments be split. And this takes us back to point #1. Start your own threads since you clearly want to talk about something else.

[BryanM]

That Persona Q thing... it's rare that it feels like someone made a game just for me, but, sometimes it happens. So creepy.

It's basically the same type of thing I always wanted for Final Fantasy - a big fanservicey mashup dungeon crawler. Why the hell didn't they ever do that; I mean they've even got Final Fantasy 13: High School Edition on the PSP.

Ah they'd just ruin it anyway..

Take Terra south to the king in Figaro Castle, kupo

Argh, that's so much worse than I imagined. You literally can't go anywhere but the castle at that point in the game.

It's like the narrator and ghost dad in Dexter pointing out things that you're looking at with your eyes.

[replayme]

Somewhere I made the decision to stop replying to Replayme because he doesn't really listen, he just posts more propaganda, nonetheless, here's my direct suggestions for him:

1) The notion that tablets/phones will replace handhelds (and lots of other things) is a viable topic. I think you should make your own thread about it. The fact that capcom sank its money from Monster Hunter 4 into a mobile game studio supports your idea. Doesn't belong in this thread however. Here's another thread suggestion: "Replayme's 'Why the 3DS sucks" thread.

2) I don't know if you realize you are trolling, but you are...why is a post like this even in the 3DS thread?

Vita: the smart little indie powerhouse alternative to a blockbuster obsessed industry.

Most of the posters here are beyond console wars, so stop wasting the bandwidth.

3) Consider where you're putting your posts and what you're trying to accomplish. It certainly isn't to have an intelligent discussion about games on the 3DS which you haven't (by your own admission) actually played. In reality, you aren't even qualified to talk about the 3DS, so it begs the question why you're posting here.

4) Get a blog. (this has already been covered)

5) I'm not planning on directly responding to any more of your posts, but as you continue to take useful threads off tasks I'll be making friendly suggestions to our mods that your comments be split. And this takes us back to point #1. Start your own threads since you clearly want to talk about something else.

I don't like starting threads as it gives the impression that I'm just looking for attention or that I am arrogant and believe that what I say is "important".

I also try not to hijack threads if I can help it.

Going by your criticisms, here is my response:
1. I don't believe making a "3DS sucks" thread would be conducive to the overall harmony of this forum. It'll just devolve into click bait, flaming, and needless arguing.

2. That was just a response to the previous post. I didn't really want to talk about the Vita, or insult the 3DS, but just point out sales stats as indicating a downward trend. My intention was never to flame bait, troll, or talk about the Vita. Tangentially, my earlier post(s) were still "on topic" and covered the 3DS. But admittedly, the post you refer to was not on topic - just part of a conversation with the previous poster.

3. I own a 3DS. And it sits on my shelf collecting dust because I wasn't that impressed with it after spending 8 hours playing MK and M3DL. As a piece of hardware, I think it's poor and is certainly offputting when trying to play the 3DS catalogue. Granted, my "exposure" to the device is limited, but I'd like to think that I am qualified - just less qualified than someone who happens to display bias and appreciates its 3D capabilities and games more than I.

4. Already have one. And your point is duly noted.

5. Covered this in point 1 and 2. I also think the people who go out of their way to be abusive and call names are the real offenders. Their opinions have little basis in "truth", and they don't qualify their arguments in the slightest. I at least try to use stats and online resources to back up my arguments.

[SuperGrafx]

If anyone's looking:

Target has 3DSXL systems in stock for $175 this week

Also, I picked up a brand new copy of Mario Tennis Open at Sears of $9.97
Good game to add to your collection for a decent price.

Game on!

[Ganelon]

Argh, that's so much worse than I imagined. You literally can't go anywhere but the castle at that point in the game.

You don't need to show a tip if you don't want to, just as you don't have to continue in a shooter that offers infinite continues. I'm surprised at all the complaints about the new mobile version when there are already many avenues to play the original Final Fantasy VI. The new visuals may not be as familiar as the classic sprites or as impressive as what we've come to expect from the FFIV remake they're still solid and a nice change from the nearly identical ports we've received so far.

More interesting to me now is how nonexistent the outcry was when Final Fantasy V received the exact same mobile treatment months ago. In fact, lots of reviewers were complaining that the graphics were hardly updated for that game. Given FFV was never available in English until years later, I'm sensing some nostalgia at play here.

[EmperorIng]

they're still solid and a nice change from the nearly identical ports we've received so far.

That's a funny way of saying "ugly, washed-out, and lacking in detail or charm." Or were you a fan of the MMX iOS port too? Certainly not identical.

[ZellSF]

The only thing I've ever heard about the Final Fantasy V iOS port was that it looked terrible, so people definitely noticed it then too. These remakes look terrible.

I've liked all sorts of remakes that do drastic changes to games, so it's not nostalgia, I did not even particularly like Final Fantasy VI.

[Ganelon]

I was fine with Mega Man X iOS visuals and even preferred them over Maverick Hunter X polygons. I'd take the original SFC sprites over the line drawings but I certainly wouldn't have paid for the original game all over again.

For iOS Final Fantasy VI, the character renderings aren't even new; they're clearly derived from Tetsuya Nomura's SD art designs (found in various promotional material) created for the original SFC game. That said, I do prefer the original character sprites myself but I'm not focused solely on the characters like most folks seem to be. The new iOS backgrounds in the field and in battle are much better, as are the redrawn enemy sprites and inclusion of portraits.

As for media perception of iOS FFV's visuals, I don't recall a single article complaining specifically about the game having washed-up graphics, as was the case for iOS FFVI. The reason I'm focusing on this point is because I was surprised upon first playing iOS FFV that just about everything in the game was completely redrawn while most of the game's reviews referred to slightly "cleaned-up" graphics. If you're aware of even a single FFV review that spends a good deal of time discussing poor visuals compared to the original (as opposed to not enough work done to make the game more aesthetically pleasing), then please link away. At the very least nobody was on Shmups or anywhere else complaining Square Enix was ruining games with iOS FFV.

[BulletMagnet]

Given FFV was never available in English until years later, I'm sensing some nostalgia at play here.

I'm sure that's part of it, since FF6 is named as an old favorite by a lot more people, at least in this part of the world (myself included), than FF5 is. That being said, I agree that it's a bit silly to bellyache about it too much when you could more easily ignore it and play the game on another format - it's not like the mere existence of a substandard mobile port makes the original any worse, or that complaining about the treatment of a game nearly two decades old will halt the increasing dominance of mobile gaming, no matter how distasteful you may find it.

[ZellSF]

My complaints about the art of the VI remake are definitely not about the characters in specific. The backgrounds look terrible, the portraits look terrible, the new enemy sprites look terrible, how inconsistent the art is between all of those elements looks terrible, the UI looks terrible, etc... Not sure why you think people are focusing on character art alone when they say it looks terrible.

At the very least nobody was on Shmups or anywhere else complaining Square Enix was ruining games with iOS FFV.

I'm pretty sure they were, not on here but elsewhere. Of course this is what I read on random forums and I'm not going to try to dig that up, but I do distinctly remember reading a lot of people saying they didn't want a VI remake if the V remake was any indication on how it would turn out.

[Ganelon]

Since there aren't reviews yet for the mobile version, let's look at fan feedback:

http://kotaku.com/oh-no-square-enix-wha ... 1502268040
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/01/15/fi ... e-android/

The vast majority of graphical complaints there are specifically about the character sprites and not anything else.

I actually don't see any increase in graphical inconsistency for the iOS version and would still claim that any perceived inconsistency is caused by familiarity of what players have been conditioned to see from the original. Even back in the day playing "FFIII" on SNES, I felt that the cartoony character and enemy sprites felt out of place alongside the realistic environments so this version doesn't seem any more jarring. The new character sprite art style itself is a little too "kiddy" for my tastes but this mix of styles is par for the course compared to RPG series like Farland Story and Shining.

But if you think the backgrounds and enemy sprites look terrible compared to the original (along with the addition of portraits touched up from Yoshitaka Amano art), then it seems there's not much more to discuss. I could understand "slightly worse" but I'm not seeing how redrawing to add more detail makes things that much worse unless some folks preferred the blurry abstraction of the original art. If that's the case, then this whole discussion would segue into the fine line between "representative" vs. "realistic" art styles—how some people prefer 8-bit Rockman sprites over 32-bit Rockman sprites because they can imagine all the details that were technologically constrained from appearing—something I'm not interested in going in-depth at this time.

[ZellSF]

But if you think the backgrounds and enemy sprites look terrible compared to the original (along with the addition of portraits touched up from Yoshitaka Amano art), then it seems there's not much more to discuss. I could understand "slightly worse" but I'm not seeing how redrawing to add more detail makes things that much worse unless folks preferred the blurry abstraction of the original art.

More details does not equal better. I could redraw all of Final Fantasy VI's pixel art with more detail, and I can tell for sure that you would not call that an objective improvement.

I actually don't see any increase in graphical inconsistency for the iOS version and would still claim that any perceived inconsistency is caused by familiarity of what players have been conditioned to see from the original.

I can pretty definitely say that's not the case with me. Wouldn't it be more interesting for you to try to figure out why people think the way they do rather than dismissing it as nostalgia?

[BryanM]

While we're on about FF6, my favorite quote about it was re: the lettuce rabbit monsters

"They're made of what they eat.
It bothers me."

folks preferred the blurry abstraction of the original art.

We can skip past the whole "remaking something is dumb because you can only make it better or worse, and if it was good to begin with, you can only make it worse so spend the hours of your life doing something new instead" argument and all just accept that the sprite art is terrible art full stop. Barely above what you expect a teenager with a gradient fetish to accomplish.

I created an infographic to touch on the barest, most fundamental errors.



In short, if you have a better resolution and more colors to work with, that obligates you to put more work into it, not less. It additionally magnifies the lack of talent of the artist*; in low res even someone as shitty as I can throw together something that doesn't immediately melt eyes if I put the time into it.

In short, they were really cheap for no explicable reason. If they wanted to, the characters could be identical to the actual design art now. But that would cost money. And maybe require you to hire people who've played an actual video game before in their lives.

* I don't really want it to sound like I'm trashing the poor guy who put down the actual pixels. Bidding wars being what they are, he's probably the son of a rice farmer in China or North Korea. It wasn't his fault the Art Director told him to do it this way, and I'm sure if he had more time and higher expectations placed upon him, he could have done much better. The Art Director is probably some yakuza guy who sleeps on a pile of prostitutes every night and only got the job by being someone's nephew.

* Also I think this Internet Guy's Terra is cute.

I actually don't see any increase in graphical inconsistency for the iOS version and would still claim that any perceived inconsistency is caused by familiarity of what players have been conditioned to see from the original.

They don't even use the same palette here. At no point did the background and sprite artists get together and try to get close to the same temperature, god ignoring everything else.

I think the battle backgrounds are rather nice in a vacuum. Not mind-blowingly awesome, but nice.

[ZellSF]

on the subject of Final Fantasy VI Android, it has a game breaking glitch. No I'm not talking about the graphics, but the game itself will just freeze up at one point in the story.

[Ganelon]

They don't even use the same palette here. At no point did the background and sprite artists get together and try to get close to the same temperature, god ignoring everything else.

Is that any different from games like Ultima VIII, Farland Story early installments, Shining Wisdom, the 32-bit Sailor Moon fighters, etc.? I suppose I'm so used to art style and palette disparity between character graphics and backgrounds that the situation here doesn't look out of place.

I'm no artist so I can't tell whether the art style is deliberate or if it's a lack of talent as you suggest. For me, I just don't find the new sprites to be a major downgrade (never been a fan of "buff" Locke although the beer belly is definitely one of those "can't unsee" things). I would agree that the internet guy's art, which looks to be inspired by FFIV PSP's visuals, would have been preferable to both. I'm actually curious how closely Kefka's sprite and background in the mobile version will resemble that fanart.

[BryanM]

I suppose I'm so used to art style and palette disparity between character graphics and backgrounds that the situation here doesn't look out of place.

It's common to have the foreground be brighter by a level than the background in order to create contrast - it avoids things like Battle Garegga's invisible bullets. FF6 ios takes it a number of steps beyond just adding a little contrast.

(Also everyone look at the scroll bars. There seems to be scroll bars in their battle engine. Scroll bars. Scroll bars.)

[NTSC-J]

I'm all done with Bravely Default: For the Sequel. I've mastered every job class with all the characters, maxed everyone out to level 99, beaten every optional boss, and collected every monster, item, and ability. My game clock is at about 85 hours.

My early impressions were very positive (I mentioned it was one of my favorite RPGs ever), and thankfully that's relatively unchanged. I find myself looking for reasons to keep going since I'm not ready for it to end.

It isn't perfect, though. The dungeons are pretty boring and repetitive, both in layout and music. The difficulty isn't well-balanced and leans generally on the easy side, but at least there are a number of bosses that force you to plan your attack. The optional downloadable bosses especially force you to come up with new strategies.

The biggest complaint I need to be vague about because of spoilers, but the story takes an unfortunate twist 2/3rds of the way in. Without giving anything away, I will say that initially I didn't think it was all that bad, but it gets lame because of how they handle it. The characters start to act strangely and it's a bit baffling in the logic of the game's story. Does that make sense? In terms of JRPGs, I liked the story overall well enough, but it's "video game good" if you know what I mean.

Anyway, good game, check it out, enjoy, or complain that it was overrated.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

on the subject of Final Fantasy VI Android, it has a game breaking glitch. No I'm not talking about the graphics, but the game itself will just freeze up at one point in the story.

Is that on the Floating Island? I'm hearing complaints of people's games freezing when they get into fights there.

Those battle sprites are pretty horrible honestly. Cyan's is especially bad - his forehead looks like a giant fleshy cylinder sticking up a half foot above his eyes.

[professor ganson]

Thanks for those impressions, NTSC-J. Will go preorder this in just a bit.

[BulletMagnet]

I've mastered every job class with all the characters, maxed everyone out to level 99, beaten every optional boss, and collected every monster, item, and ability.

I read the other day that they're re-issuing some of the 4HoL boss fights with different stats (some harder, some easier), so you might have a handful of skirmishes left to try out. Glad to hear the game turned out pretty good, looking forward to picking it up (now to actually sit down and finish that demo beforehand...).

[BulletMagnet]

And since most bosses in the demo don't have any magic, Ninjas will pretty much break them. 4 Ninjas with the skills for +1 Brave on Evade, Counter when evading, Reduce damage taken skill, and the one that buffs you when you evade were what I used for the final demo bosses.

Finally sat down and finished the demo, though I ended up taking a different route: once I got the better equipment from the rebuilt village I changed most of my party over to classes which could equip the heaviest stuff, and gave everyone the "Buff Up" ability, which automatically raises your attack and defense by 5% after every round (plus the "damage dispersal" and "chance to reduce damage" abilities for extra insurance, and white magic to keep everyone going every few rounds). As such, I could take my time and weather whatever the last two bosses threw at me without keeling over, and once I'd learned their habits and gotten my bearings my stats were boosted significantly, and I was off to the races.

All in all, still good stuff: the full version should be a nice nostalgia trip to the RPGs of my youth.

[ZellSF]

Nintendo is finally adding DS games to their download service.

... For the Wii U, not the device that can play DS titles natively. Nintendo logic!

[trap15]

Nintendo is finally adding DS games to their download service.

... For the Wii U, not the device that can play DS titles natively. Nintendo logic!

Are you fucking serious? I think it's time for me to get a WiiU then. That was what I was waiting for before I got one. Though, I'm really holding out for an expansion that'd play them from my carts, but if they're doing this, it seems unlikely.

[ZellSF]

Nintendo is finally adding DS games to their download service.

... For the Wii U, not the device that can play DS titles natively. Nintendo logic!

Are you fucking serious? I think it's time for me to get a WiiU then. That was what I was waiting for before I got one. Though, I'm really holding out for an expansion that'd play them from my carts, but if they're doing this, it seems unlikely.

Yes, I'm serious, but keep in mind that they have announced GBA games in the past and we still haven't gotten those. So I'm guessing DS titles are still far away.

Not sure why they announced DS titles before they even released a single GBA title. They might have deluded themselves into thinking the Wii U will be fine if they just announce lots of stuff with no concrete release plans...

[Friendly]

No physical DS-player (which is what I've been asking for since Wii U launched) means you'd have to re-purchase all your games online. Thanks but no thanks.

[CMoon]

No physical DS-player (which is what I've been asking for since Wii U launched) means you'd have to re-purchase all your games online. Thanks but no thanks.

Unfortunately the gamecube gba player made too much sense. Don't have to be a brain surgeon to realize most of the big video game companies are staying afloat by re-selling us what we already own. Some of these windows of backwards compatibility have been nice (DS to 3DS, gameboy to gameboy advanced, psx to ps2, etc.), but realistically it is all going to be moot since the next gen of handhelds will probably be a tablet or smart phone.

[RegalSin]

1.You can get an NDS emulator for the Wii/Wiiu. Just make sure you read the info text

2. Final Fantasy VI, original looks a lot better then the image posted, the image posted, is an incorrectly sized picture of the original, and Lockie is already morphed in the game art type look of Mario, or whatever you like to call it. The greatest problem I see, is when people color their skin, and make them look too light, or try to relate the videogame to our world/dimension/time and space.

Locke, not thinking, but now seeing his original sprite does fit the figure for a Thief, but looked basic to me back then. What I hate the most is when people use Serif fonts, in replacement of San-Serif. The Serif means it is of western origin, and San-Serif is easier for people from the far-east to read.

3. On the subject of FFIV Android, I own the original game for the SNES, can play it on my computer along with the Wonder Swan Two color, and of course lets not forget the PSX extras. Why the hell would a normal gamer like us need, to get an Android to play the vidie-Gmes? That is too dumb for our kind, we know how to play it on the computer, we know their is porbably some poor soul out their working on a 3d version of it, we know all of these things. I am just sick of all these ports that tries to be HD or give original content.

Speaking of which anybody remember when Kefka used his hat like a weapon? Does he still does that, or was that the morning star, being used a reference for his hat?

SquareEnix is not the same companies we knew them to be from years ago. Square last real game was Chrono Cross, when they decided to go full Hawaii, base ( if you can remember then going full Hawaii, back with those shots and interviews ). They have not pumped anything out for years. FFX was also does not count, maybe FFXII, but nothing else. Speaking of Enix, what have they been doing?

[Moniker]

DS games on the WiiU sounds pretty rad to me. Hopefully they do some proper ports alongside the straightforward emulations. Would love an Etrian Odyssey game to play on WiiU.