Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[ckong]

I recently got a PVM14N2E .......

.......
2. The monitor has a possibility to have sync on green. Is it then possible to connect a PS2 in "component" mode with a component cable (which also has sync on green) to the monitor and in that way play PSX GAMES in 240p?

2) RGB with SoG is not the same as component, but I assume the monitor handles component just as well. In this case you can connect a PS2 through component and play both PS1 and PS2 games.

So I did (connecting a PS2 with component output to the PVM14N2E an then played the PSX game Cotton Original (Japanese). And although the image is very sharp and crisp (my louzy pictures don't show this very well), definitely 240p, the colours are way off. In fact green is overruling red and blue:







I wonder why?

[Fudoh]

because your monitor is set to RGB. If you want to display component, you need to set it YUV instead. Not sure if that's possible on your model. EDIT: internet says it's possible - you just need to find the right button or menu entry.

[kamiboy]

Boot your PS2 without a disk and go into the options. I think you do so by pressing the triangle button.

[ckong]

I will take a look. . Where did you find that specific info on the internet?

Have these monitors also a hidden service menu? If so, how to get to it?

[Fudoh]

just had a look at an ebay auction which stated a combined RGB/component input. If you didn't switch the PS2's menu to YUV as suggested, than this might be the culprit of course.

[spaceape]

I will take a look. . Where did you find that specific info on the internet?

Have these monitors also a hidden service menu? If so, how to get to it?

Not sure but i think it's like this.

http://youtu.be/FEHgYxprHQU?t=4m14s

Have fun playing with your new crt mate.

[ckong]

Hm that is another type of PVM monitor, with a comple other menu. The menu of the 14N2E is very modest and there is no possibility to switch between yuv/rgb on the monitor. There are also no switches on the back, just input connectors.

oh, I have switched the PS2 menu to YUV.

By the way, I don't know if this has already been posted here somewhere, but I found a tutorial how to make a female scart to PVM cable: http://thefab.no-ip.org/pvm/UK.htm

[ckong]

Thanks to a forum member I obtained the extensive service manual, which confirmed that the 14N2.. has no YUV input.

But then I remembered that I still have a sync strike somewhere doing nothing and a VGA > 5xBNC cable. So I tried that option, a PSX on the Scart input, the VGA>BNC cable on the output (c-sync output over the H-sync BNC lead) and:



Glorious 240p in full colour and very sharp. So, no need for the moment to buy or make a RGB scart > BNC cable Maybe when the 20" comes in, in a few weeks.
I have put the monitor in the factory presets and the picture looks great (the photo above doesn't do it justice, it shows the picture too bright, which in reality isn't the case. I am a louzy photographer).

[spaceape]

Is anyone aware of any difference in picture quality between the different BVM models?

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Not sure if this is the best thread for this but it probably doesn't deserve it's own. I recently picked up a B&O LX 2802 for the princely sum of £1 on ebay. It was sold as untested so I wasn't expecting much, but for a quid who cares? After some heavy lifting (these things way a ton) I got it set up and started to work on getting my 360 working with it. Once i'd figured out that it needed an RGB scart cable I managed to get a picture and sound and was looking forward to tuning it up and getting on with some gaming, of course at this point the power button on the front failed and wouldn't stay pushed in. Did some poking and fiddling and managed to fix that problem. Set it all up again and powered up the 360 on, looked good - sounded incredible. Seriously good speakers on these TV's. Anyway, after about 5 minutes the screen juddered and went to standby. Hit the standby button and at first it tried to kick into life and failed a few times, then stayed in standby, then finally blacked out completely. Popped it open and replaced a few apparently broken fuses on the power board but no luck. I expect it could be fixed but I've neither the expertise or the time to do that so I think it's going down the tip. Damn shame because it looks great and the sound quality is impressive. Not to worry though, just found an ebay seller in my area with 2 MX4002's. Few pics of the LX2802 below for posterity (sadly none while it was functioning).

[spaceape]

Is there any difference between the BVM-A20F1U and the A20F1M?

Edit: Just found out A/M is for Europe and U is for USA but otherwise identical i believe.

Only thing i could find was the power standards and this:



Not sure if it means anything. Anyone? http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/2666112041.pdf

[Fudoh]

The tables above are about color decoding. It's slightly different for American vs. European broadcast standards.

[speedlolita]

Anyone have any experience with the Sony KX-14CP1?

Got one a few months back and I absolutely love it.

Apparently it was made to be an MSX monitor, although the sticker on the top of it leads me to believe that it was used for pro video in some capacity. It's a little dinged compared to some other examples of this monitor I have seen but it's nothing hugely significant. Traces of phosphor appear at the edges of the display but aren't at all noticeable when playing, I think they kinda disappear as the display warms up. Either way, for £30 posted to my door I'm very happy.

Made in Japan too, which is always nice.

Scanlines, not the best pic though:



Inputs:



Made a quick video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDRAHRnyVgM

[cjug]

Fudoh, which CRT monitors you know can handle 480p?

[Fudoh]

too many. What size are you looking for ?

[cjug]

20 inch or similar. I thought there weren't too many when you mentioned that BVM that won't handle it.

[Fudoh]

If you only want 31khz and higher you can choose between literally dozens of different PC monitors. If you want 15 and 31khz in 20", try a PVM L5 or a BVM D or A series.

[cjug]

Thanks, I forgot to mention that I was referring to a 15khz and 31khz capable monitor, so I was excluding the PC ones.

[ikari_01]

I've managed to get 31kHz display from a BVM-14F1E.

No other pics/instructions right now, still working on it, namely auto-switching between 15kHz and 31kHz.
Getting it to sync to and display 31kHz involves tweaking on a number of PCBs inside, and definitely isn't something you should try at home

Might try it on the 20" afterward, though it might not work at all as the PWM controller that supplies H-Amplitude is pretty much maxed out atm.
Geometry isn't perfect but overall it's certainly a step up from 480i on some consoles. Of course the firmware won't remember dedicated settings for 31kHz modes so I'm just going to use the "underscan" settings for that.

BTW, has anyone else with a BVM-xxF1x noticed the slight waviness of the picture towards the upper edge? Seems to be much more pronounced with the 14" model. It's actually a design flaw in the first(?) revision of the deflection unit (E Board) - there's a fix for that, too, which can be "backported" to the older revision of the E Board.

[Ed Oscuro]

BTW, has anyone else with a BVM-xxF1x noticed the slight waviness of the picture towards the upper edge? Seems to be much more pronounced with the 14" model. It's actually a design flaw in the first(?) revision of the deflection unit (E Board) - there's a fix for that, too, which can be "backported" to the older revision of the E Board.

Is this board the same one in the PVM 20L5? I noticed something similar, if not the very same thing, as the picture bends inwards a little near the top left (using the underscan setting).

[ikari_01]

I don't think so, the 20L5 seems to be a different design altogether. The error looks like this (see top area of the picture, warped grid lines):




See the warped score display in this screenshot:



Doesn't look like much. It's worse when scrolling is involved.

EDIT: Apparently the front panel of my BVM-14F1E is from a BVM-D or BVM-A model as it has "Multiformat" printed on it which the BVM-14F1E hasn't. The monitor, however, is definitely a BVM-14F1E.

[Ed Oscuro]

Does that bowing persist when you change to an underscan setting? On my 20L5, it does. It's also more pronounced than seen here, I think, but nothing that kills me actually.

[ikari_01]

It remains about the same. It gets worse when setting H KEY to extreme values.

[Ed Oscuro]

I finally got a chance to look at another system - PS2 slim (SCPH-90000, Japanese) via component cables, and the amount of bowing and the direction in my PVM 20L5 looks very close to yours - same direction, about the same amount. I am not sure, though, about your second screenshot which appears to have lines pushed in at the top left (and possibly the top right). I don't get that in my screens.

[ikari_01]

The lines are just covered by the front bezel because of the angle the picture was taken at.
Anyway, does it get all wiggly when you crank H KEY up all the way?

[Ed Oscuro]

The lines are just covered by the front bezel because of the angle the picture was taken at.

Thought that might be the case.

Haven't screwed around with H KEY yet, I'll have a look when I get a chance.

[Broddha]

Hey Fudoh, I am pretty new to the fascination with retro games and CRT monitors, but I like to believe I am equally as fascinated as the rest of you guys after the month I spent reading up on the subject lol. Anyways, my favorite consoles come from the 5th and 6th generations, specifically the N64, the GameCube, and the PS2. I know that the 'king' of CRTs for 240p signals is apparently the Sony BVM 20F1, but what is the best CRT for 480p signals? And would a 480p CRT be any good for 240p games?

Despite your preference and recommendation of upscalers, I want to stick to CRTs because I like to play fighting and shooting games which require minimal lag.

[kamiboy]

The easiest way to get good 240p and 480p via CRT is a SONY PVM L5.

[Broddha]

The easiest way to get good 240p and 480p via CRT is a SONY PVM L5.

Okay, cool. And if I want to go 480p exclusively, should I still get PVM L5 or is there anything better?

[Ed Oscuro]

Have you considered the weight issue? There's about a 10 pound difference between the BVM 20" series and the PVM 20L5 (which is also 20 inches), and that last is about 70 pounds. It's definitely a chunk of metal. Going up to 24" gets over 100 pounds, and going bigger still leads to even heavier displays.

I am not sure I am 100% happy with my PVM 20L5, but I didn't have any good 480p solution before it, and I haven't spent enough time with it to really tell; the main issue here is that many of these monitors are getting a bit older and have been in service a long while. But it's a professional monitor and one of the best. What could be better, other than a larger size? I have no idea. There are some TVs that support 480p natively, but it's not likely they'll have a better picture than a PVM.