Nintendo 3DS (XL)

[trap15]

Who cares about the system's power? Nintendo's whole hardware deal has always been, in the words of the great Gunpei Yokoi, "Lateral thinking with withered technology". It's not about the tech, it's about the games. If you can express your idea with a given hardware, that's all that matters. It's about the games, not the machine.

Additionally, of course DS was underpowered to the consoles, it fits in your fucking pocket and runs on batteries...

[replayme]

Who cares about the system's power? Nintendo's whole hardware deal has always been, in the words of the great Gunpei Yokoi, "Lateral thinking with withered technology". It's not about the tech, it's about the games. If you can express your idea with a given hardware, that's all that matters. It's about the games, not the machine.

Additionally, of course DS was underpowered to the consoles, it fits in your fucking pocket and runs on batteries...

For the longest time, I considered handheld gaming to be a more watered down version to the type of gaming that I was accustomed to. I tried getting on the handheld bandwagon during the GB and GBC era, and failed. Same with the GBA (even though I bought it as a Jap import before its UK release). Again I tried with the DS and couldn't muster enough enthusiasm to carry on playing it past a few hours.

I just preferred console gaming for the longest time. I still do, but generally find the effort required to turn on the TV and sit on a couch to be a chore. The iPhone changed that (starting with Game Dev Story), and my fascination with handheld gaming has only continued to grow with the PSP (especially after discovering that I can run PS1 games on it - like Einhander).

[Jonathan Ingram]

Nintendo's whole hardware deal has always been, in the words of the great Gunpei Yokoi, "Lateral thinking with withered technology".

NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube were hardly what one would call "withered technology" when they launched. It's only in the past decade that Nintendo has increasingly come to rely on gimmickry to drive the sales of both their hardware and software.

It's not about the tech, it's about the games.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

Who cares about the system's power?

Why, I would like to hope that anyone who cares about the quality of gaming experience does, what with videogames being an AUDIOVISUAL form of media and all.

[Moniker]

Who cares about the system's power?

Why, I would like to hope that anyone who cares about the quality of gaming experience does, what with videogames being an AUDIOVISUAL form of media and all.

If Nintendo's next new console were an 8-bit MegaNES, I'd buy it in a second. Simply put, they know how to put their resources to maximum use. At this point, it's really a matter of soul.

Gfx/processing power isn't a compelling reason to own a system. If it were, we'd all just own jacked-up PCs.

[Skykid]

Who cares about the system's power?

Why, I would like to hope that anyone who cares about the quality of gaming experience does, what with videogames being an AUDIOVISUAL form of media and all.

Audiovisuals are surface components though, one reason why so many beautiful FPS's are so mind-numbingly base (and identical) in their structural make-up. Power has its uses, granted, but I'd take a good game over a pretty game any day.

If Nintendo's next new console were an 8-bit MegaNES, I'd buy it in a second. Simply put, they know how to put their resources to maximum use. At this point, it's really a matter of soul.

Gfx/processing power isn't a compelling reason to own a system. If it were, we'd all just own jacked-up PCs.

^ Basically.

Personally I think the Wii U is a misstep, because its interface is less versatile and attractive than Nintendo R&D thought it was, but I'm not sure I can lambast them for sticking to a unique game platform ethos rather than jacking up hardware and becoming another third-party, cross-platform stomping ground (although that makes money.)

Still, I have reservations about Nintendo's current path. The Wii was long in the tooth and the brand and its casual intent is starting to wear thin. Time they did something unexpected in the home console scene, which probably starts with ditching the Wii U, sadly.

[Drum]

Who cares about the system's power? Nintendo's whole hardware deal has always been, in the words of the great Gunpei Yokoi, "Lateral thinking with withered technology". It's not about the tech, it's about the games. If you can express your idea with a given hardware, that's all that matters. It's about the games, not the machine.

Additionally, of course DS was underpowered to the consoles, it fits in your fucking pocket and runs on batteries...

For the longest time, I considered handheld gaming to be a more watered down version to the type of gaming that I was accustomed to. I tried getting on the handheld bandwagon during the GB and GBC era, and failed. Same with the GBA (even though I bought it as a Jap import before its UK release). Again I tried with the DS and couldn't muster enough enthusiasm to carry on playing it past a few hours.

I just preferred console gaming for the longest time. I still do, but generally find the effort required to turn on the TV and sit on a couch to be a chore. The iPhone changed that (starting with Game Dev Story), and my fascination with handheld gaming has only continued to grow with the PSP (especially after discovering that I can run PS1 games on it - like Einhander).

Ok, so your interest in handhelds grew with a retro-style sim game and the fact that you can play old games on them. In light of this, your harping about cutting-edge technology might seem inconsistent to the untrained eye, but those of us who have been paying attention know better: it fits right in with your general tedious insanity and axe-grinding.

[replayme]

Not really. The reason as to why I can appreciate games like Einhander is because they speak to my own inner childhood (and because the jumping on point is pretty high - 32 bit gaming). I just can't appreciate games that look / feel as if they belong to a previous (8bit) generation.

It's akin to appreciating b/w films when you grew up in the age of colour. I just can't do it.

[NTSC-J]

It matters because I don't like wasting money on what I consider to be a long term investment.

But why not be honest and admit that it's fun just to complain. You've mentioned a couple times about this "investment" being so important to you, but a 3DS is less than $200 and a WiiU is $300. I don't mean to disparage people who have a rough time making ends meet and to whom this is a lot of money, but I also don't think that third-party exclusives on new gaming platforms would rank high on the list of their worries, so I don't think it's merely the money that bothers you. It's just fun to pick a side and defend it.

Friendly does it with his heartless multibillion-dollar corporation and seems to have a good time.

I often picture board rooms filled with aged Japanese millionaires mumbling about stock options and profit margins then bowing and exchanging business cards before hopping into taxi cabs that take them to seedy love hotels in Shinjuku where some miserable woman lets them shiver over them for a few minutes, then it's back home to the aged wife and resentful children, where all the while, nerds all over the world yell at each other about which of these gastropods they're going to give their money to next.

It's a fun hobby, to be sure, but let's call a spade a spade.

[replayme]

It's an "investment" if the games still cost £30-45 and the system is considered to be "alive".

It's like supporting a football team during a live match. You've paid your extortionate ticket for the chance to be part of something. You know that ticket is depreciating in value as time goes on. You know that ticket will be worthless soon. You just want your moneys worth. And you don't want to see your home team fail so miserably - especially after buying the T-shirt. Not during the match. Endless re-runs via home DVDs are another story entirely (ie buying a dead console). You just want to pick up the highlights for next to nothing.

[Skykid]

It matters because I don't like wasting money on what I consider to be a long term investment.

But why not be honest and admit that it's fun just to complain. You've mentioned a couple times about this "investment" being so important to you, but a 3DS is less than $200 and a WiiU is $300. I don't mean to disparage people who have a rough time making ends meet and to whom this is a lot of money, but I also don't think that third-party exclusives on new gaming platforms would rank high on the list of their worries, so I don't think it's merely the money that bothers you. It's just fun to pick a side and defend it.

Friendly does it with his heartless multibillion-dollar corporation and seems to have a good time.

I often picture board rooms filled with aged Japanese millionaires mumbling about stock options and profit margins then bowing and exchanging business cards before hopping into taxi cabs that take them to seedy love hotels in Shinjuku where some miserable woman lets them shiver over them for a few minutes, then it's back home to the aged wife and resentful children, where all the while, nerds all over the world yell at each other about which of these gastropods they're going to give their money to next.

It's a fun hobby, to be sure, but let's call a spade a spade.

Bravo.

[replayme]

Skykid: you can say what you want about being impartial, but you're ever so slightly biased towards Nintendo. Dispute this to your hearts content if you must. Me however? I have somewhat given up on the company and its repeated failings in areas that I consider to be important. So if we are talking about "sides", I can confirm that my sensibilities place me more in alignment with what Sony has to offer.

In other news: 3DS has sold 2M units in UK. Tbh, I expected the figure to be a lot higher, given that the 3DS is the market leading handheld platform. Can only imagine how large a chunk of Nintendo's market Apple and Android have taken...

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/3ds-sale ... uk/0126097

Edit: Didn't know Chibi Robo was announced. Looks interesting. Would be interesting to see if anyone tries to make a "risque" filled museum, and if Nintendo would take offence to the practice.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/video-ch ... er/0126054

[Skykid]

I know exactly where I stand. People accused me of being Microsoft biased not long ago for pointing out disappointing aspects of the PS3.

To you, I appear a Nintendo apologiser simply for defending what they do well, which is a matter of fact rather than bias. Refuting your ill-informed perception of a company that still manages to get some important aspects of development right isn't difficult - but if the conversation was about criticism I'd have a fair share of negative comments. I'm in less of a rush to buy a Wii U than I am a PS4.

When I'm defending fifteen-year old games like Ocarina, I get the same shtick, so don't sweat it, I'm used to it.

But my stance is more simply fuck corporate allegiance. I'm interested in history and good gaming, but unless a blue chip is going to give me a blowjob every time I buy software they'll have to work real hard to have me party to a free PR game.

TL; DR: Carry on.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Power has its uses, granted, but I'd take a good game over a pretty game any day.

Gfx/processing power isn't a compelling reason to own a system.

I think you are both purposefully mischaracterizing my words. I never said that power alone was a compelling reason to own anything or that graphics made games. Audiovisual presentation enhancing the overall qualities of the game is the point here and I`d really love to see anyone try and make a case against it. Are Gradius V, Goku Makaimura and Monster Hunter in HD the same experiences that they were in standard definition? Would the hypothetical 1080p 60fps PC versions of Vanquish and Red Dead Redemption not provide any benefits over their sub-HD sup-30fps console progenitors? Does the 400x240 resolution screen of the 3DS not hamper the enjoyment of the game in any way? And would you be totally a-ok if your favorite games were stripped down to hit boxes?

If Nintendo's next new console were an 8-bit MegaNES, I'd buy it in a second.

I don`t even know what to say to this. If you really do feel that way, it`s less an expression of love for the gaming medium and more a complete and utter dismissal of the genres and visual styles that have come into existence with the advancements in hardware technology.

[replayme]

To you, I appear a Nintendo apologiser simply for defending what they do well

Which is make great (albeit overly Mario-themed) games, not make great consoles that are well supported or that appeal to the industry or hardcore gamers in a mainstream context.

which is a matter of fact rather than bias.

I don't see how you can ever quantify something as intangible as playability and gaming tastes, unless taking into consideration metacritic scores - that are mostly collated as a result of subjective findings. This is an opinion, and not a fact.

But if we are to use the the crux of your argument, then is it not "logical" to argue that Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer is now "irrelevant"? Surely that' must be a "fact".

Refuting your ill-informed perception of a company that still manages to get some important aspects of development right isn't difficult

Some, but not most. And are you referring to software development, or hardware development?

I know what Nintendo's strengths are (so I am not "ill-informed" - which is an opinion not grounded in "fact"), but I also know that it is Nintendo's weakness which is the main contributing factor for why I refuse to touch the Wii U (and every other Nintendo home console hereafter). Unless Nintendo seriously change their ways, and have that wake-up call, the only time for when I will ever pick up their consoles is when their consoles are dead. In which case, Nintendo won't be getting any of my money. Instead however, it'll be the likes of Cash Convertors and / or the punters on Ebay that will be benefiting from my custom.

I'm in less of a rush to buy a Wii U than I am a PS4.

Because you have some self-respect, and because you don't want to work towards what is essentially a frivolous waste of your time? In other words, the PS4 is the better supported console, offers the better value in terms of tech, and is therefore the better long-term safer bet, than what is essentially a non-contender?

When I'm defending fifteen-year old games like Ocarina, I get the same shtick, so don't sweat it, I'm used to it.

I'd have thought its greatness was universally accepted by now. Sure, there will always be pockets of resistance, but it was the right product at the right time. It practically saved the N64.

I'm interested in history

Which is where Nintendo's head is stuck at right now. They never learn from their mistakes, which is why they're condemned to repeat them.

Personally, I am interested in both history and the future.

Carry on.

With pleasure

[moh]

It matters because I don't like wasting money on what I consider to be a long term investment.

But why not be honest and admit that it's fun just to complain. You've mentioned a couple times about this "investment" being so important to you, but a 3DS is less than $200 and a WiiU is $300. I don't mean to disparage people who have a rough time making ends meet and to whom this is a lot of money, but I also don't think that third-party exclusives on new gaming platforms would rank high on the list of their worries, so I don't think it's merely the money that bothers you. It's just fun to pick a side and defend it.

Friendly does it with his heartless multibillion-dollar corporation and seems to have a good time.

I often picture board rooms filled with aged Japanese millionaires mumbling about stock options and profit margins then bowing and exchanging business cards before hopping into taxi cabs that take them to seedy love hotels in Shinjuku where some miserable woman lets them shiver over them for a few minutes, then it's back home to the aged wife and resentful children, where all the while, nerds all over the world yell at each other about which of these gastropods they're going to give their money to next.

It's a fun hobby, to be sure, but let's call a spade a spade.

my body is yours

[CMoon]

It's akin to appreciating b/w films when you grew up in the age of colour. I just can't do it.

Extremely sad. Should take a cinema appreciation course, and if this were a better world, a video game appreciation course. You're missing out on the best of both.

Still a pretty inconsistent argument though since the DS can do PSX level graphics if not a bit better.

[replayme]

It's mostly a preference.

I will endeavour to check out some of the DS library as time goes on.

[Skykid]

Goku Makaimura

To go slightly off topic, I'm quite disappointed in GM's visual presentation. I find it quite ugly.

If I had the option to play it in SD with sprite-based graphics I wouldn't think twice. As for the rest, I understand what you're saying, which is why I said power has a place - I just don't see it as being a benchmark by which I define a good gaming experience, as has been insinuated elsewhere in this conversation.

I eat 16-bit for breakfast though.

Which is make great (albeit overly Mario-themed) games, not make great consoles that are well supported or that appeal to the industry or hardcore gamers in a mainstream context.

Great games are great games. If you can't deal with the theme it's a problem, but not mine. Technically Nintendo gamers are the least mainstream and most hardcore, I'd wager, if the general level of flak is anything to judge by from opposing fan boy forces.

I don't see how you can ever quantify something as intangible as playability and gaming tastes

Quality is completely tangible. And considering the ruined nature of modern scoring ethics I wouldn't trust Metacritic for anything.

But if we are to use the the crux of your argument, then is it not "logical" to argue that Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer is now "irrelevant"? Surely that' must be a "fact".

Impossible if the games justify the hardware. We've already covered the whole tech equals quality thing, it has no weight. You realise the 3DS is busting the Vita's balls, don't you?

Personally, I am interested in both history and the future.

Ah, the future's less interesting than it should be. I expected more from current gen than highly commercialised template products, in which you can count only scant exceptional works.

I'd say gaming's largely rubbish, to be honest.

[replayme]

The 3DS can't be busting the Vita's balls that much if I'm already thinking of selling it... The games surely don't justify the 3DS hardware in my opinion (probably). To even experience this differential in terms of "quality" means that quality isn't a tangible variable that can be measured absolutely.

If Nintendo games weren't mainstream, then why is it that they (until recently) consistently sell well? And if I have a problem with the theme, then surely the "hardcore" also have a problem with Cod and Fifa - games that are technically superb.

"Quality" can't be that "tangible" if the relationship which I have with my 3DS isn't as consistent as what you have. I derive more fun from Gravity Rush - which in itself speaks volumes as to how subjective "quality" is when it comes to something unmeasuarable like "fun" or "playability".

Edit: I will sleep on my dilemma. But right now, I definitely prefer my Vita more than my 3DS.

[CMoon]

Buyer's remorse? What games did you buy the 3DS for, and have you played them?

I guess what I don't get is that in the time you've posted your purchase of the system, your evaluation of the system and your plan to sell the system, I haven't finished a single game on the 3DS. Admittedly, I probably play video games on average about 1 hr a day, which might be less than some people, but a good game tends to last me for a couple months at least.

I suspect I'm repeating myself, but it seems like you bought the console without having any particular games you wanted to play, then trashed the console for not having games on it you wanted to play. Of course, I'd argue you hold onto it because 1) you won't get your money back, and 2) you are likely to find at some point that there are games on either the DS or the 3DS you actually want to play. Thus begins 'seller remorse.'

All this aside, the fallacy to your arguments is your radically simplistic view that one handheld has great games while another doesn't, despite the fact that unlike the Wii/U, the 3DS actually has major 3rd party support just like the Vita. Personally, I would consider whatever games you actually want to play, and base your decision on that. The consoles themselves are just consoles.

[professor ganson]

As usual, I agree with CMoon. I just would add that fans of shmups often prefer action games, and typically these sorts of titles don't work out as well on handheld systems, where the camera can get wonky. RPGs, puzzle games, pinball-- these are the sorts of games where handhelds hold their own and then some.

[Skykid]

The 3DS can't be busting the Vita's balls that much if I'm already thinking of selling it... The games surely don't justify the 3DS hardware in my opinion (probably). To even experience this differential in terms of "quality" means that quality isn't a tangible variable that can be measured absolutely.

If Nintendo games weren't mainstream, then why is it that they (until recently) consistently sell well? And if I have a problem with the theme, then surely the "hardcore" also have a problem with Cod and Fifa - games that are technically superb.

"Quality" can't be that "tangible" if the relationship which I have with my 3DS isn't as consistent as what you have. I derive more fun from Gravity Rush - which in itself speaks volumes as to how subjective "quality" is when it comes to something unmeasuarable like "fun" or "playability".

Edit: I will sleep on my dilemma. But right now, I definitely prefer my Vita more than my 3DS.

The only intangibility in quality is failure of an individual's critical ability to identify it.

Beneath the pretty veneer, Gravity Rush is an average game at best. I'm confident of that.

The 3DS can't be busting the Vita's balls that much if I'm already thinking of selling it...

Yet it is. I refer to my above statement.

[trap15]

The 3DS can't be busting the Vita's balls that much if I'm already thinking of selling it...

Not Understanding How Markets Work (tm) (C) (R) All Rights Reserved.

[replayme]

@Skykid

Quality is completely tangible.

And the feeling you get from a game isn't. You cannot bottle playability - or measure it, otherwise Atari would have made a mint as opposed to going bankrupt years ago. What you are stating isn't a fact, but an arbitrary opinion dressed up as a social construct that you want to be known of as fact.

Impossible if the games justify the hardware.

Again, this is an opinion. And not a fact. I find the Vita library to be more appealing to my sensibilities, so therefore consider the 3DS to offer less value. That doesn't mean that some of the games aren't good though.

I expected more from current gen than highly commercialised template products, in which you can count only scant exceptional works.

I'd say indies will provide the kind of future you are looking for.

Beneath the pretty veneer, Gravity Rush is an average game at best. I'm confident of that.

You are entitled to your opinion.

[Skykid]

@Skykid

Quality is completely tangible.

And the feeling you get from a game isn't. You cannot bottle playability - or measure it, otherwise Atari would have made a mint as opposed to going bankrupt years ago. What you are stating isn't a fact, but an arbitrary opinion dressed up as a social construct that you want to be known of as fact.

Well Atari went bankrupt for making a quarryfull of rubbish shovelware that no-one wanted to buy, so I'm not sure what the link is there, but it's an interesting topic isn't it?

We measure things in a critical capacity every day. Most do it in passing, as in "I saw this film/read this book/etc, it's great, go watch it you'll love it," while others do it professionally. The latter are meant to guide people about how best to spend their money, and be able to balance valid criticism - stripping something down to a component level - while also appreciating different factors of appeal.

Again, the only real intangibility is in people's levels of critical ability or appraisal, a problem that plagues both punter and reviewer alike, if Metacritic is anything to go by.

There are useless movies that fail at every hurdle at a component level: scripting, editing, acting, cinematography, casting, production etc, and there are still people that like them. In my personal opinion that's not a success of the movie, but a failing of the person. For instance if you can't appreciate Citizen Kane because it's in black and white, I'd consider you a neanderthal lacking a single artistic bone in your entire body - an opinion of course, but one that hopes to aspire from some kind of education.

Unfortunately, and personally, I'm not willing to entertain realms of the 'appeal factor' to the nth degree. There's some sway in saying if you love strategy RPG's, then this type of game is more likely for you, but there's not so much room when you can identify something that's mechanically broken, inept, boring or trite, for example.

Obviously this is an endless discussion, and not one I want to have endlessly. In summary, you'd tell me until the end of time that you had a great experience with Gravity Rush, and I'd tell you until the end of time that it's really nothing special and fails to do justice to its own concept or be particularly intriguing outside of its initial hour.

And I'd consider my opinion superior, for whatever reason, as you would yours, and that would be a stalemate not worth prolonging.

So as it stands, I'm happy to state quality is tangible, factual, identifiable, and if playability can be bottled, Nintendo have probably come closest in all the years of videogame manufacture to figuring out a reliable formula.

[replayme]

Which probably explains why "Since the chart began 28 years ago, EA has had more Christmas number ones than any other publisher with 14. Eight of those were FIFA".

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... number-one



Edit: just had to play Devil's Advocate.

[Skykid]

^ Yes, I'd say that sums it up nicely.

[BrianC]

It's akin to appreciating b/w films when you grew up in the age of colour. I just can't do it.

Extremely sad. Should take a cinema appreciation course, and if this were a better world, a video game appreciation course. You're missing out on the best of both.

replayme needs to see the 1951 Christmas Carol with Alastair Sim and be visited by the ghosts of movies past.

[CMoon]

Messing around with Resident Evil Revelations right now. Put an hour in to experience 'native' and will try again tomorrow when the CPP shows up. Right now I have to agree with something that the reviews I saw on this game nailed, but I'm not sure I understood what they were getting at. What I'm getting right now is immediacy--simple and responsive controls, claustrophobia, wonderful horror atmosphere (like the point in 'The Thing' where they visit the other camp), and that dread of actually not wanting to open doors, enter an area, etc. 4 is my favorite in the series, and I know people will say it is just an action game, but a damn fine action game it is. As a 3D handheld game, this has some of that, but minus the openness, which is kind of a plus in the horror department if you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, barely played it, but first blush is really nice. Very hard to set down.

[shmuppyLove]

Dear Nintendo,

please launch Bravely Default with a special edition 3DS XL bundle kplsthx