XRGB-mini Framemeister

[kerframil]

Just to make sure 'MotionFlow > Clear' is not selectable while in 'Scene > Game' mode ?

Because MotionFlow > Clear setting is THE setting that's supposed to improve motion without dimming and flickering.
If it's not available while in Game then it must be in other Scene modes.

That would appear to be the case. Impulse is the one and only Motionflow option offered in Game mode here.

[Xyga]

So this is as Fudoh said.
I wonder if the input lag is really so much higher in other Scene modes where Clear is available...
Anyway if you have time, try Clear and see if motion ingame actually gets better with it on.
Supposedly it is not a frame interpolation method...

EDIT: sorry my mistake there IS interpolation, here's what I found:

[Motionflow] “Clear” interpolates without causing 24fps film-based content to look like hyperrealistic, ultra-smooth video. “Clear Plus” appears to be a midway setting between “Clear” and “Impulse” – there’s some interpolation going on, and a small decrease in luminance. Both “Clear” and “Clear Plus” are viable options to boost motion resolution without evident side effects, with the former being more practical for daytime use.

[Galgomite]

So this is as Fudoh said.
I wonder if the input lag is really so much higher in other Scene modes where Clear is available...
Anyway if you have time, try Clear and see if motion ingame actually gets better with it on.
Supposedly it is not a frame interpolation method...

I own a W900a. In "general" mode, even with motion smoothing turned off, response time is over 100ms (Bodnar/ 720p). Game mode is the only option on the set for low lag.
BTW, Clear is most definitely a frame interpolation method. The only option that isn't is Impulse, that's the one that strobes the backlight.

[Xyga]

Thanks, that's precious information.
Over 100ms... ouch.
Well this pretty much confirms there's no reason to cry over the missing extra MotionFlow settings on the W65 model.
At least not for people like me who bought it only for gaming.

Funny how a near 100 pages thread on avforums, avsforum and sony.eu forums can't clear that up ... just took a few posts here.

[marqs]

Oh one more question, does this have a biliner filter or something like it built in as a option as well? Thanks

No bilinear filtering. Just outstanding scaling and 480i de-interlacing. However, It's not so great at scaling 480p over component (better to use an HDMI input for that).

I recall that setting Auto Scaler to "VIDEO" seemed to result to scaling with bilinear filtering.

[Fudoh]

still completely OT and by now a few years old, but here're the motionflow diagrams I created for my HX9 review back then. Motionflow still works the same way these days (impulse mode not included).

[Galgomite]

Thanks, that's precious information.
Over 100ms... ouch.
Well this pretty much confirms there's no reason to cry over the missing extra MotionFlow settings on the W65 model.

No reason at all. To me, motion smoothing is basically "48fps Hobbit" mode. It ruins movies. Live events like football games can get a little extra motion resolution out of the equation, but those are 60fps anyway and the difference is minimal.

[Smashbro29]

Nobody else trying to use HDMI passthrough getting this annoying line on the left?

[EmperorZelos]

Nobody else trying to use HDMI passthrough getting this annoying line on the left?

I fail to see the point of HDMI passthrough for it

[Smashbro29]

Nobody else trying to use HDMI passthrough getting this annoying line on the left?

I fail to see the point of HDMI passthrough for it

I have one really good reason, I used to have one of my PC's outputs going to a switch but doing that made my life difficult because every time I switched off it everything in my dual monitor setup would jump around. The mini holds the monitor in place no matter what I do and the whole thing runs like a dream and honestly after spending so much on it I'm looking to get as much utility out of it as possible.

[BuckoA51]

No reason at all. To me, motion smoothing is basically "48fps Hobbit" mode. It ruins movies.

It doesn't "ruin" them at all, that's just videophile snobbery. There's no reason why we should be sticking to 24fps these days really. Some people like the setting on, others off, but most of the "off" camp just say that because they read some videophile snob's blog that insists it gives movies a "soap opera" effect or something.

[kerframil]

Oh one more question, does this have a biliner filter or something like it built in as a option as well? Thanks

No bilinear filtering. Just outstanding scaling and 480i de-interlacing. However, It's not so great at scaling 480p over component (better to use an HDMI input for that).

I recall that setting Auto Scaler to "VIDEO" seemed to result to scaling with bilinear filtering.

It doesn't look anything like bilinear filtering to me. Would any video processor really use bilinear filtering for film/video processing? That said, there is a marked loss of detail for 30kHz sources as compared to other modes such as NATURAL. As far as I know, this is due to the application of a low-pass filter. I updated the wiki a while back to indicate which display modes are affected. Also, the QDEO processor can perform noise reduction and such but I don't know which of these features - if any - are employed in the VIDEO mode.

EDIT: Sorry, I misinterpreted your comment. I was thinking of the "MOVIE" display mode. I'll try out the auto scaler option mentioned and see what happens.

[EmperorZelos]

Nobody else trying to use HDMI passthrough getting this annoying line on the left?

I fail to see the point of HDMI passthrough for it

I have one really good reason, I used to have one of my PC's outputs going to a switch but doing that made my life difficult because every time I switched off it everything in my dual monitor setup would jump around. The mini holds the monitor in place no matter what I do and the whole thing runs like a dream and honestly after spending so much on it I'm looking to get as much utility out of it as possible.

Why would you run your PC though a godforsaken switch when its just going to a computer monitor?

[Smashbro29]

I have one really good reason, I used to have one of my PC's outputs going to a switch but doing that made my life difficult because every time I switched off it everything in my dual monitor setup would jump around. The mini holds the monitor in place no matter what I do and the whole thing runs like a dream and honestly after spending so much on it I'm looking to get as much utility out of it as possible.

Why would you run your PC though a godforsaken switch when its just going to a computer monitor?

Ease of use, video capture, mostly video capture. Also, it's really going to a TV, the very same TV I use for every other game console.

[EmperorZelos]

Ease of use, video capture, mostly video capture. Also, it's really going to a TV, the very same TV I use for every other game console.

Video capture would make sense but why a computer to a TV? that baffles me, a 50 inch TV for a screen is not that comfortable with a keyboard and amouse

[Smashbro29]

I play games on PC with a controller 95% of the time. PC is basically a console with cheaper games and better graphics.

[Fudoh]

Does the Mini have any troubles with 480i through RGB ? I'm currently exchanging PMs with a Mini user over on the AVS board. He's got the same TV as I do, but his 480i scanlines look off - especially when compared to 240p scanlines. I see ZERO difference on my setup, but I just compared 240p component to 480i component. So, should I expect a difference with RGB ?

[Konsolkongen]

The only thing I can think of is that component uses different settings for 240p, 480i and 480p, where RGB uses the same for all. Perhaps he's using settings optimized for 240p which causes this? If that's not the case then it could be the new firmware perhaps? I haven't tried 480i RGB since it was released so I can't say.

On the older firmwares 480i RGB looked fine to me, but I rarely used it.

[Galgomite]

It doesn't "ruin" them at all, that's just videophile snobbery. There's no reason why we should be sticking to 24fps these days really. Some people like the setting on, others off, but most of the "off" camp just say that because they read some videophile snob's blog that insists it gives movies a "soap opera" effect or something.

Audiences and moviemakers of the world can prove you right at their discretion.

[brownvim]

The more frames the better I say, we get to see more detail which helps when the cinema screens are so big.

[GohanX]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm just about to get a Atomiswave motherboard that I'm going to consolize, and since it already has VGA out (in either 15 or 31 khz RGB) could I just use one of these cables to go to the Mini?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-to-15Pins ... 4163b9dda9

I'm thinking I may need to combine the syncs, but otherwise I don't see why it wouldn't work. My mini does have an adapter to take Euro scart btw.

[ruger]

I'm thinking I may need to combine the syncs, but otherwise I don't see why it wouldn't work. My mini does have an adapter to take Euro scart btw.

The Atomiswave actually only outputs RGBS, and not RGBHV, so the sync is already combined. The cable in question seems to be a SCART-to-VGA and not a VGA-to-SCART? In addition to the gender changer they sell, you probably have to open the SCART connector and rewire CSYNC from pin 19 to pin 20? Just my guess.

[J3SteR82]

What I don't get is we have these ultra powerful GPU's today and theres no way to make them upscale say as good as the FM? Talking pc emulators of course...

[SGGG2]

What I don't get is we have these ultra powerful GPU's today and theres no way to make them upscale say as good as the FM? Talking pc emulators of course...

There's a homebrew program for Nvidia cards that's designed to apply anti-aliasing to 720p 360/PS3 games but the name escapes me. I'd love to see a dedicated set top box or PC progam for with all kinds of effects and options.

[J3SteR82]

I use radeons and they have a program called radeon pro which does the same things. It also works with sweet fx which i tried and was not happy with. Will end up dropping the $400 on the miester. I dont mind the scanlines the emulators produce. Just on my 60" the lines appear bunched up every few lines. If i play on my 32" 720p tv they are fine

[BuckoA51]

If you play at your panels native resolution the scanlines should appear fine in your emulators. Assuming you have set the emulator up correctly of course.

[ZellSF]

What I don't get is we have these ultra powerful GPU's today and theres no way to make them upscale say as good as the FM? Talking pc emulators of course...

There's a homebrew program for Nvidia cards that's designed to apply anti-aliasing to 720p 360/PS3 games but the name escapes me. I'd love to see a dedicated set top box or PC progam for with all kinds of effects and options.

Nvidia cards don't have HDMI inputs, so they can't do anything with the video signal of a 360/PS3. You're thinking of PtBi for Blackmagic capture cards. It's post-processing AA, obviously.

[Zapf]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm just about to get a Atomiswave motherboard that I'm going to consolize, and since it already has VGA out (in either 15 or 31 khz RGB) could I just use one of these cables to go to the Mini?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-to-15Pins ... 4163b9dda9

I'm thinking I may need to combine the syncs, but otherwise I don't see why it wouldn't work. My mini does have an adapter to take Euro scart btw.

You're right, you would need to combine the syncs

[ruger]

You're right, you would need to combine the syncs

The Atomiswave only outputs CSYNC, on pin 13 on the "VGA connector", so there are no two syncs to combine.

[J3SteR82]

If you play at your panels native resolution the scanlines should appear fine in your emulators. Assuming you have set the emulator up correctly of course.

Problem is some emulators do not have options to go as high of resolution as my tv