XRGB-mini Framemeister

[CT Chibo]

Hi everyone, working with my new Framemeister
Been looking everywhere, can someone help guide me please on how to change the v sync/lock setting and the a/d level?

Also, any recommendations for N64 settings?

My N64 looks great with RGB, 720p, scanlines and whatever it came with.

Considering most dont have modded N64s I'd place my bet on that Chibo doesn't either

Ah! But I do

Unfortunately though the Scart cable I bought is bad <_<
My next question was going to be is where would someone recommend I buy a scart cable for my SNES/N64? I figure it's the cable that's bad and not the mod since my SNES doesn't work with it either. Been using S-Video for now.

[kerframil]

I tried adding a few caps to get rid of the very subtle vertical bar on a 1CHIP-01. It seems to eliminate the vertical bar on problematic titles (e.g. Final Fantasy 3). I set brightness and A/D level to max to help illustrate.

Those screenshots look great. Can this modification be applied to a SNES2/Jr? If so, would you mind divulging exactly how it's done?

[juji82]

Ah! But I do

Unfortunately though the Scart cable I bought is bad <_<
My next question was going to be is where would someone recommend I buy a scart cable for my SNES/N64? I figure it's the cable that's bad and not the mod since my SNES doesn't work with it either. Been using S-Video for now.

One if not the best Scart cable for N64 / SFC is the one made from Nintendo for EUR Gamecubes after 2004. Code is DOL-013.
BEWARE it is SCART, so you need the SCART to minidin for the mini.

[EmperorZelos]

Ah! But I do

Unfortunately though the Scart cable I bought is bad <_<
My next question was going to be is where would someone recommend I buy a scart cable for my SNES/N64? I figure it's the cable that's bad and not the mod since my SNES doesn't work with it either. Been using S-Video for now.

One if not the best Scart cable for N64 / SFC is the one made from Nintendo for EUR Gamecubes after 2004. Code is DOL-013.
BEWARE it is SCART, so you need the SCART to minidin for the mini.

I'd be suprised if it wasn't XD

[Smashbro29]

Pay special attention to the left side of the capture. Notice the thin black bar, this isn't present when I don't use the mini. Anyone else notice this?

[Konsolkongen]

It's happening at the top of the image too, isn't it?

[Smashbro29]

No, it's only the "inside" of the picture that counts. Look at the tab on the browser. To the left of it the bar is most visible.

[Konsolkongen]

Of course I get it now

[rtw]

Working on my Framemeister setup

What is best for component video (YPBPR):

. Use the input on the TV (SONY BRAVIA 46W905)
. Use the Framemeister

TIA

[Fudoh]

240p and 480: Mini
480p: Sony directly.

@rtw: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 74#p973074 Can you confirm with your W9 that it's limited to 60Hz strobing frequeny in gamemode ? Or does it offer 120Hz like Clear Plus does in Cinema or General scene mode ?

[rtw]

Thank you Fudoh! Just to get things 100% crystal clear do you mean:

240p and 480i (interlace) use the Framemeister ?

I can check the strobing frequency but I'm a bit confused as to where this is set. I had a quick look in the scene menu but did not find anything there...

[Xyga]

While in 'Scene > Game' mode...
...do you have control over something called 'Clear Plus' or 'MotionFlow' in the 'Picture' settings menu ?

And if you do does it affect ghosting/smearing positively/negatively ?

[Fudoh]

240p and 480i (interlace) use the Framemeister ?

yes. And 480p directly to the component input on the W6/8/9 or using a Component to HDMI converter dongle.

I can check the strobing frequency but I'm a bit confused as to where this is set. I had a quick look in the scene menu but did not find anything there...

If you switch into game (scene) mode, then hit the options button, picture settings, down to the bottom > advanced settings, down the the bottom, "LED Motion Mode". If you enable it you get a strobing backlight with increases the motion resolution from 300 to 1080 lines. On the W6 models you get a 60Hz flicker (looks like a CRT). I wonder if the W9 does 60Hz or 120Hz in this mode.

EDIT: strike that. Just checked and the W9 does this through motionflow, so it's what XYGA asked: can you apply Motionflow IMPULSE while you're in game mode and if yes, does if flicker like a 60Hz CRT or does it have 120Hz ??

[rtw]

EDIT: strike that. Just checked and the W9 does this through motionflow, so it's what XYGA asked: can you apply Motionflow IMPULSE while you're in game mode and if yes, does if flicker like a 60Hz CRT or does it have 120Hz ??

Found the setting, switched it on and the picture became dimmer. My test setup was DC->Hanzo->Gefen HDMI->SONY. Tested with Ikaruga did not see anything special.

[Smashbro29]

Of course I get it now

Yeah sorry if I made it confusing at first.

But it's so odd, why does that happen? It's not on both sides, just one weird bar on the left. Annoying.

[Fudoh]

My test setup was DC->Hanzo->Gefen HDMI->SONY. Tested with Ikaruga did not see anything special.

you get plasma-like motion handling without any blur. It's quite nice. If you don't notice any obvious flicker, then it's probably running at 120Hz on the W9 sets. Thanks for checking it out.

[kerframil]

My test setup was DC->Hanzo->Gefen HDMI->SONY. Tested with Ikaruga did not see anything special.

you get plasma-like motion handling without any blur. It's quite nice. If you don't notice any obvious flicker, then it's probably running at 120Hz on the W9 sets. Thanks for checking it out.

I enabled Impulse mode while running 480p over component on a Sony KDL-55W905A and there is tangible flicker. It even prints a warning about it: "Motionflow is set to Impulse. If you mind flicker in the picture, go to Picture > Motionflow and select another setting."

[J3SteR82]

Ok so i use emulators over real hardware. If i had one of these framemisters, could i plug the hdmi from my pc to the FM and then to the TV so all my emulators would then use the same scanlines and filtering? I play on a 60" sharp lcd and most emulators no matter what settings the scanlines look bunched up in a few rows...

[EmperorZelos]

Ok so i use emulators over real hardware. If i had one of these framemisters, could i plug the hdmi from my pc to the FM and then to the TV so all my emulators would then use the same scanlines and filtering? I play on a 60" sharp lcd and most emulators no matter what settings the scanlines look bunched up in a few rows...

Other than the emulator being blasphemous! I would take a stab and say yes

Though really thats redudant on so many levels

[J3SteR82]

Well i do own a xbox 360 and buy all my games for that

[J3SteR82]

Oh one more question, does this have a biliner filter or something like it built in as a option as well? Thanks

[kerframil]

Ok so i use emulators over real hardware. If i had one of these framemisters, could i plug the hdmi from my pc to the FM and then to the TV so all my emulators would then use the same scanlines and filtering? I play on a 60" sharp lcd and most emulators no matter what settings the scanlines look bunched up in a few rows...

Other than the emulator being blasphemous! I would take a stab and say yes

Though really thats redudant on so many levels

No, it really is not. At higher resolutions, many emulators make it absurdly difficult - if not outright impossible - to achieve pixel-perfect line doubling in conjunction with the simple but effective scanline emulation of the sort that the Mini employs, not to mention horizontal scaling that correctly preserves the aspect ratio. As well as a Mini, i have an Optoma HD3000. I find that setting emulators to output at 640x480 and letting the HD3000 upscale to 1080p yields better results in almost every single case. There are two reasons. Firstly, using VGA makes it hard for the emulator and/or graphics driver to do a terrible job of scaling. Secondly, the scaling of the HD3000 is exceptional (even emulator scanlines are scaled perfectly).

Out of the many emulators I have tried, only a very small number (e.g. FB Alpha) can hold a candle to the HD3000 in situations where my PC is running natively at 1080p. The same goes for DOSBox; I can run it over VGA in TV 2x mode and with the HD3000 doing the rest, it looks outstanding. No muss, no fuss.

Furthermore, I've encountered at least one emulator (WinAPE) that exhibits excellent processing but only outputs as 640x480 when switched to fullscreen mode. Again, the HD3000 is a godsend because it does a fantastic job, whereas trying to get my GPU to achieve similar results is an interminable exercise in frustration.

@J3SteR82 - If your PC has a VGA connector and your emulator(s) of choice can perform good scanline emulation at 640x480 (many do) then I would recommend an HD3000. If you don't have a VGA connector then you should be able to run through the Mini using HDMI. One quirk of using scanline emulation on the Mini is that it may be necessary to darken the even lines instead of the odd lines, depending on exactly where the emulator is positioning the image.

[kerframil]

Oh one more question, does this have a biliner filter or something like it built in as a option as well? Thanks

No bilinear filtering. Just outstanding scaling and 480i de-interlacing. However, It's not so great at scaling 480p over component (better to use an HDMI input for that).

[J3SteR82]

Thanks so much, only have hdmi and dvi as a option. Think i will pick up a mini! Wish there was a cheaper option though

[J3SteR82]

Whats a hd 3000 and could i go dvi to vga? Also can you darken every other line with the Flamemister?

Thanks

[kerframil]

Whats a hd 3000 and could i go dvi to vga? Also can you darken every other line with the Flamemister?

Thanks

You should check out Fudoh's page as it has a review of the HD3000. For me, the value of the HD3000 is that it's good at upscaling 480p to 1080p and has a VGA input. It does not have scanline emulation. If your source is currently hooked up via DVI then all you need is a DVI to HDMI cable to hook up to one of the Mini's HDMI inputs and vice versa to hook up to your display, if necessary. I haven't yet tried the Mini in this configuration but it should work fine.

EDIT: Yes, you can opt to darken either odd or even lines when running 480p into a Mini because the intensity of either can be altered. It's just marginally annoying if you have a setup that requires you to alternate because presets can't be stored. The Mini doesn't have this problem processing 240p - for that it always does the right thing and exposes just one setting for the scanline intensity.

[Fudoh]

As kerframil says, the tricky part about preparing emulation for external scanline overlays is to get the linedoubling right. Once you have your emulator scale the game to fullscreen (from top to bottom), you won't be able to get proper scanlines any longer. You have make that the actual resolution is just doubled (e.g. 224 to 448 lines) and the rest has to get padded with black lines. Not all emulators support this properly.

It's not so great at scaling 480p over component (better to use an HDMI input for that).

really depends on the source. In general the component processing on the Optoma is great. PS2 looks stunning. It's just the fuzzy Nintendo signals which don't look so hot.

[kerframil]

As kerframil says, the tricky part about preparing emulation for external scanline overlays is to get the linedoubling right. Once you have your emulator scale the game to fullscreen (from top to bottom), you won't be able to get proper scanlines any longer. You have make that the actual resolution is just doubled (e.g. 224 to 448 lines) and the rest has to get padded with black lines. Not all emulators support this properly.

It's not so great at scaling 480p over component (better to use an HDMI input for that).

really depends on the source. In general the component processing on the Optoma is great. PS2 looks stunning. It's just the fuzzy Nintendo signals which don't look so hot.

I was referring to the Mini's 480p processing. Otherwise, I agree. PS2 480p is great running through an HD3000. I do wish more games had officially supported progressive mode. My current Sony TV yields a more pleasing result, though it suffers from ringing. Fortunately, the ringing isn't really noticeable in 3D games.

[Fudoh]

My current Sony TV yields a more pleasing result, though it exhibits noticeable ringing

a bit off topic here, but anyway: yes, the current Sony models have a tiny bit of ringing, but overall their scaling engine for component signals is pretty nice (in game mode), certainly the nicest I've seen on any TV. With reality creation and Edge Enhancement off, Detail Enhancement to low and sharpness to about 32, it looks really good. Certainly good enough to justify running a PS2 in 480p without an additional processor.

[Xyga]

My test setup was DC->Hanzo->Gefen HDMI->SONY. Tested with Ikaruga did not see anything special.

you get plasma-like motion handling without any blur. It's quite nice. If you don't notice any obvious flicker, then it's probably running at 120Hz on the W9 sets. Thanks for checking it out.

I enabled Impulse mode while running 480p over component on a Sony KDL-55W905A and there is tangible flicker. It even prints a warning about it: "Motionflow is set to Impulse. If you mind flicker in the picture, go to Picture > Motionflow and select another setting."

Just to make sure 'MotionFlow > Clear' is not selectable while in 'Scene > Game' mode ?

Because MotionFlow > Clear setting is THE setting that's supposed to improve motion without dimming and flickering.
If it's not available while in Game then it must be in other Scene modes.