XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Wikipedia Brown]

Hello, everybody! I recently received an XRGB Mini (firmware 1.08); it was an impulse purchase, and I had no idea what I was getting into. I've tried to be diligent in my research on what kind of cables I should be using and stuff, but it's been a bit of a nightmare so far.

I feel bad even asking questions in here, since I know it's all well-trod ground, (spoiler: I'm having sync issues, surprise!) but the available information is pretty scattershot. I have no doubt that all the answers are already in this very thread, but it's been going for three years and is not easy for me to sort through.

So far I've been trying to get a Neo Geo AES (3-6), an Atari Jaguar and a Sega Genesis (model 1) up and running. Composite works fine (but looks like crud, naturally), and S-Video from the Jag actually looks really nice, comparatively, but obviously the whole point here is to get it all going over RGB.

I ended up with sort of a grab bag of cables and adapters acquired mainly via eBay, and the best I can get is super shaky images from the Jag and Genesis, and I can barely get the Neo to display without dropping out immediately. When I adjust the Sync Level, I can calm things down enough that I can see what it's supposed to look like, but it's still very wobbly at best.

I thought my problems were about to be solved when I got a Euro SCART to the XRGB's mini-din cable with a sync stripper circuit. Well, with that in the chain, the Genesis gives me a slightly more stable image, but it's still unusable, and I get absolutely nothing from the Neo or the Jag. That really took the wind out of my sails.

I've cracked open a couple of the cables, since people in this thread have mentioned the less-than-consistent quality in some of these things. The wiring in the included cable looks like a war zone, but everything seems to be attached. Needless to say, this stuff is way out of my area of expertise.

I'm sorry, this is an awful lot of writing already, and I don't even know what I'm asking. I'm just kinda feeling like I'm at the end of my rope, and that it has not been worth the effort or money involved so far. Could my problems be a sign of a defective unit, or is it most likely that I've simply failed to crack the mystery of the cables?

The worst part is that I can see how sharp and vibrant it can be when the wobble calms down for a second. It's going to be so great if I can get things working properly!

[acidhammer420k]

For one thing, make sure you got JP RGB-21 wired cables and not Euro style. If you got Euro style, that's your problem. Either buy RGB-21 wired cables or buy a Euro to RGB-21 adapter. Sometimes you can find them premade for sale on eBay, I know the guy in the UK on eBay that sells a lot of RGB cables will make you one for the same price as his other RGB cables if you message him. I don't really recommend the eBay person from the USA who used to run Retro Access. I have got a lot of cables that arrived not working and needed to be sent back for repair by them.

If your problem is not RGB-21 vs. Euro SCART, then I'd say it is a sync issue. XRGB Mini is very picky about what kind of sync it receives.

[EmperorZelos]

I had sync issues which I solved with a sync stripper that got power from the power cable so it was always powered as the pins in scart lost ever so slight voltage going through my switches which of course just happened to be enough for the sync stripper to not freaking WORK.

[BuckoA51]

I've found the Jaguars RGB signal to be rock solid stable, even on more fussy units like the XRGB3. For your Genesis, try to find a raw sync cable if you can.

I had sync issues which I solved with a sync stripper that got power from the power cable so it was always powered as the pins in scart lost ever so slight voltage going through my switches which of course just happened to be enough for the sync stripper to not freaking WORK.

I think this lack of power to the sync stripper accounts for 90% or more of peoples problems when using one.

[Wikipedia Brown]

For one thing, make sure you got JP RGB-21 wired cables and not Euro style. If you got Euro style, that's your problem. Either buy RGB-21 wired cables or buy a Euro to RGB-21 adapter. Sometimes you can find them premade for sale on eBay, I know the guy in the UK on eBay that sells a lot of RGB cables will make you one for the same price as his other RGB cables if you message him. I don't really recommend the eBay person from the USA who used to run Retro Access. I have got a lot of cables that arrived not working and needed to be sent back for repair by them.

Good points all around. I've already had an issue with the Floridian fellow sending me a Euro SCART Neo Geo cable when I ordered the JPN RGB21 style. I needed a Euro to JPN adapter anyway for other stuff, so I didn't bother making a stink about it.

I've found the Jaguars RGB signal to be rock solid stable, even on more fussy units like the XRGB3. For your Genesis, try to find a raw sync cable if you can.
...
I think this lack of power to the sync stripper accounts for 90% or more of peoples problems when using one.

I would love to try an externally powered sync stripper, but poking around the internet, it looks like I'd have to make such a thing myself. Yikes!

Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's given me a bit more to think about.

[EmperorZelos]

I would love to try an externally powered sync stripper, but poking around the internet, it looks like I'd have to make such a thing myself. Yikes!

Not at all, go to retro gaming cables, I special ordered mine from them so send them a text before on mail and discuss it, I got mine from them, takes power from the same power supply that the framemeister does and passes it on to the framemeister afterward.

I think this lack of power to the sync stripper accounts for 90% or more of peoples problems when using one.

Accounted for mine and when I used external it was all solved

[Wikipedia Brown]

Not at all, go to retro gaming cables, I special ordered mine from them so send them a text before on mail and discuss it, I got mine from them, takes power from the same power supply that the framemeister does and passes it on to the framemeister afterward.

Brilliant! Thanks so much for the tip.

[EmperorZelos]

Brilliant! Thanks so much for the tip.

XD not really, it works splendid, the sync issues are gone as far as I can tell and it can even go through scart switches and more, just make sure you get 4m 1.7mm plugs for it

[BuckoA51]

Be warned that many users on here have had cables from Retrogamingcables.co.uk and found them to be of a low quality. Though in this instance they may be your only choice.

[EmperorZelos]

Be warned that many users on here have had cables from Retrogamingcables.co.uk and found them to be of a low quality. Though in this instance they may be your only choice.

Low quality how? It works splendid, found no better place that offers such great service and cables =O where could you get them otherwise?

[BuckoA51]

Incorrectly soldered, wires not connected correctly, poor quality of soldering etc. The last cable I got from them had the left and right audio switched for instance, but they did sort it out for me reasonably quickly.

(See back on page 149 for another user who had a bad experience with them).

[EmperorZelos]

Ah well if they fixes it they are good in my book, mistakes always happen.

[ruger]

Sometimes I order cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk because I am lazy, but the quality is really in it's own category.... so I always open their cables and solder them properly. One thing I would highly recommend is to check for unprotected twisted ground shielding (i.e. inside the female SCART connectors) which can quite easily get in touch with metal it shouldn't and ...buzzz... short your source and XRGB... guess how I found out

[kyo77]

Hi to everyone
I want hook up dreamcast to xrgb mini, it is ok

Dreamcast-vga box-vga to hdmi converter-freimester-monitor?

Thanks

[EmperorZelos]

Sometimes I order cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk because I am lazy, but the quality is really in it's own category.... so I always open their cables and solder them properly. One thing I would highly recommend is to check for unprotected twisted ground shielding (i.e. inside the female SCART connectors) which can quite easily get in touch with metal it shouldn't and ...buzzz... short your source and XRGB... guess how I found out

which pins would that be?

[Fudoh]

want hook up dreamcast to xrgb mini, it is ok
Dreamcast-vga box-vga to hdmi converter-freimester-monitor?

No, it's VGA to Front-RGB input using a adapter cable with a passive sync combiner circuit.

[kyo77]

want hook up dreamcast to xrgb mini, it is ok
Dreamcast-vga box-vga to hdmi converter-freimester-monitor?

No, it's VGA to Front-RGB input using a adapter cable with a passive sync combiner circuit.

i CAN'T USE A VGA TO HDMI CONVERTE TO HOOK THE VGA BOX TO FREIMESTER?

[EmperorZelos]

want hook up dreamcast to xrgb mini, it is ok
Dreamcast-vga box-vga to hdmi converter-freimester-monitor?

No, it's VGA to Front-RGB input using a adapter cable with a passive sync combiner circuit.

i CAN'T USE A VGA TO HDMI CONVERTE TO HOOK THE VGA BOX TO FREIMESTER?

doesnt that kinda ruin the point of the framemeister?

[Moonwalker]

want hook up dreamcast to xrgb mini, it is ok
Dreamcast-vga box-vga to hdmi converter-freimester-monitor?

No, it's VGA to Front-RGB input using a adapter cable with a passive sync combiner circuit.

Do you know where I can get the cable?

[Fudoh]

@kyo77: it should work, but the DC is hard to use with a VGA to HDMI converter, because of it's non-standard video levels. Many VGA to HDMI converters freak out with the DC as a source. Also the VGA to HDMI converter won't fully resolve the DC's resolution, but will only pass it as VESA 480p, while in reality it's SMPTE 480p. The DC uses a SMPTE timed signal (720x480) with an active picture are of VESA specs (640x480) - really weird.

@Takuma: make it yourself or get it made for you. Beharius (maker of the Hanzo) suggested at one point that he might make cables for that available (or even create boards with a sync combiner). The circuit was mentioned a few times here on the thread. It's really easy to make. Instead of a passive sync combiner, you can use an active one. Most Extron RGB interfaces will do the job as well. (RGBHV input and RGBs output)

[BuckoA51]

If you can't build yourself I'd still say the UMSA was the best option. If you use an Extron RGB you still have to somehow adapt that output to the Mini which means more custom cabling etc.

If someone remembers where that schematic was by the way, throw a link my way and I'll Wiki it.

[Moonwalker]

@Fudoh:

Thank you, but what should I make how?

@BuckoA51:

What is an UMSA?
I think it woulde be great to put the info in he wiki, there should be a lot of people with the same question.

[BuckoA51]

Most of this information already IS in the Wiki

[Bigsasquatch]

"Here you go http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=4040

I added the link to my signature too so it should be easier to find "


Great thanks ... appreciate your posting it again !

will let you know how I get on.......

BIGS

[Bigsasquatch]

I tried the xbox360 through the xrgb and at least for the cave shmups they look a lot better through 480p with scanlines now. thanks a lot!
i used the 480p settings from konsolkongen, are any better settings for HDMI anyway?

its really a shame that the mini doesnt have a seperate audio exit. when i connect my x360 via hdmi to the xrgb and go into a lcd monitor with a hdmi to dvi cable there will be no sound.
for my rgb based consoles i have a cinch connection, i dont know how to solve this with the xbox though. has anybody an idea?

fudoh and konsolkongen really helped me a lot, thank you guys!

Did you think about using SLG 3000 or Beharius scanliner ? If you can use a VGA cable on your 360 and TV the results are excellent and of course lag free.....

( and a relatively inexpensive solution )

BIGS

[Wikipedia Brown]

I got a new cable for the Neo Geo, and now it's at least working as well as the Genesis, so that's one element of weirdness eliminated! I can get it to display, but there's a little wobble no matter where I set the sync level.

I think I'm going to take EmperorZelos's advice and have retrogamingcables build me a custom adapter with external power for the sync stripper.

I have one question at the moment: if lack of power is indeed an issue, what effect would that be expected to have? Is it possible for low power to make the LM1881 sort of work? I'm not wording this well, but currently I'm finding that having it in there does make a difference, it's just not enough to make the image fully stable, and I wonder if that's normal, or if a lack of power should prevent it from offering any benefit at all.

[Moonwalker]

@bucko:

Sorry found it now...

@big:

Thank you, but of possible i want to avoid having another part.
Imcan live with the lag of the xrgb, although it is very tempting... Hm...

[Moonwalker]

I thought about the SLG3000 solution and since it covers 2 problems for me I will try that.
Bouhgt a VGA Splitter and 2 VGA Switches so I can connect my DC and X360 to the switch. Since I need to exits for my Sony LCD and my Eizo Tate LCD I connect the splitter to the 2 exit ports of the switch then into the SLG. The SLG Exit is connected to the second splitter and from the splitter there is VGA to the Sony and VGA to DVI to the Tate screen... complicated but I hope it works!

I have a similar situation with the Framemeister going into a HDMI switch which leads to the Sony and Eizo so it should do the trick hopefully. I don´t know if the SLG likes the splitting and switching though.

[BuckoA51]

I have one question at the moment: if lack of power is indeed an issue, what effect would that be expected to have?

I would expect no picture at all. If you have picture wobble on your Genesis using a raw sync cable should fix it, not sure on the Neo Geo though.

I don´t know if the SLG likes the splitting and switching though.

It won't care

[DejahThoris]

Decided to play around with my Mini a bit and see how it handled different things. Working great on the PCE with RGB over RGB21, but I cannot for the life of me get the SNES to work. I just get a picture that flashes in and out every 2-3 seconds. The cable works fine with my Sony PVM, so I'm not really sure what's going on here... I'm on rev 1.08 according to the menu.