Weak Backwards Compatibility for the 360

[dai jou bu]

I didn't complain when the Dreamcast lacked backwards compatibility. Then again, I didn't complain when a friend of mine gave me his rarely used Xbox.

So... yeah.

[Acid King]

Man, this news sucks. I wish Microsoft didn't come in and take my Xbox away once I purchased a 360! Those bastards! I can never play the games not listed ever again!

Heh, well played...

[benstylus]

Man, this news sucks. I wish Microsoft didn't come in and take my Xbox away once I purchased a 360! Those bastards! I can never play the games not listed ever again!

What of the people just joining the Xbox camp?

They purchase a 360 and hear it can play Xbox games, so they go out and buy an xbox game.

The way the list currently stands, they've got about a 70% chance of it NOT working.

[sethsez]

What of the people just joining the Xbox camp?

They purchase a 360 and hear it can play Xbox games, so they go out and buy an xbox game.

What about people who bought a Dreamcast because they heard it could play all their PSOne games through an emulator?

Quite simply, they heard wrong. Microsoft never said "it will play all Xbox games at launch" and they never advertised it as being able to do so. If people buy 360s with that in mind, they can only blame themselves.

[Ganelon]

And yet they did officially flaunt (through gamesindustry.biz) the fact that "at launch," it would backwards compatible with "the top Xbox games." Hits such as PGR2 and Morrowind are clearly among the top Xbox games and yet will not be immediately playable or perhaps playable ever. Thus, Microsoft has lied and you're defending this sort of deceptive behavior.

As for DC emulation, I don't recall Sega claiming anything of the sort before the DC's launch, considering it's an illegal and unofficial process. This analogy doesn't make sense.

[sethsez]

I had forgotten about the "top hits" comment, you're right.

However, I still think anyone buying a 360 expecting their favorite games to work are taking a huge, stupid leap of faith when MS has said many games will not be compatible.

[BrianC]

And yet they did officially flaunt (through gamesindustry.biz) the fact that "at launch," it would backwards compatible with "the top Xbox games." Hits such as PGR2 and Morrowind are clearly among the top Xbox games and yet will not be immediately playable or perhaps playable ever. Thus, Microsoft has lied and you're defending this sort of deceptive behavior.

As for DC emulation, I don't recall Sega claiming anything of the sort before the DC's launch, considering it's an illegal and unofficial process. This analogy doesn't make sense.

Umm. sethsez didn't say SEGA made the claim. Bleem came in and advertised that there was be a PSX emulator for it and people jumped all over it.

[Ganelon]

That's true; certainly after this list, anybody who's expecting MS to fix the rest of the games would be taking a huge gamble.

As I see it, the annoying part of everything is that if MS didn't mention anything before now about backwards compatibility, we'd all be pleasantly surprised by the limited backwards compatibility. The fact that they advertised this feature early without addressing the limited capabilities and didn't deliver as much as what most people were expecting is what's disappointing.

[Neo Rasa]

Eh, I was expecting it to be low anyway since they always said it would be compatible with "top" XBox games.

Besides, backwards compatibility has never been a selling point for me, I mean, the audacity of Microsoft, that I would have to actually own an XBox to play an XBox game!

[benstylus]

As for DC emulation, I don't recall Sega claiming anything of the sort before the DC's launch, considering it's an illegal and unofficial process. This analogy doesn't make sense.

For the last time, emulation is completely 100% legal.

What's illegal is the copying or distribution of copyrighted material (i.e. roms or a bios).

[Ganelon]

True. For some reason, I was thinking about the "SNES emulator with full romset" downloads when I posted that, which are illegal.

[SAM]

I'm a little confused about the debate on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I think Sony and MS -really- believe that people actually play DVDs with their games consoles When you take that out of the equation (how many here use their PS2 or Xbox vs a real player? I bet a low percentage) then it doesn't matter what drive format they use, in the slightest. It could be on superbespoke octagonal format and it really would matter to a gamer, since all they care about is the data being readable by the machine.

Well, people actuall bought PS2 as DVD player when it was first launched. Since it cost much less than a DVD player at the time, and it is made by Sony. Plus this DVD player could play games.

Sidenote - is Blu-Ray even standardised yet? Last I checked there was no such thing as a final physical drive example. There's been no real testing of that technology in anger yet, and if earlier rumours are to be believed, the media could be seriously vulnerable to damage.

Besides opening an users base for Blue-Ray format, I think Sony is thinking of by using the new disc format, they could stop game pirating for a moment. Since the Pirate have to catch up with the new Blue-Ray techlogy.

This would also persuade more game developers to publish their software in Blue-Ray.

[Ganelon]

Err, the PS2 retailed for $300 in the US while DVD players could be found for $100 at the time. It was good justification for the price though.

[Neo Rasa]

Err, the PS2 retailed for $300 in the US while DVD players could be found for $100 at the time. It was good justification for the price though.

He's probably talking about the Japanese market (MANY Japanese PS2 sales happened because it made for a good DVD player there compared to the wildly overpriced competition)..

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I'll have to hold onto my Xbox 1 anyway since I can't transfer Xbox saves to the X360.

Oh yeah I'm dying to redo all of my Ninja Gaiden Black missions.

I like the fact that the X360 supports burned CDs however, mainly because that will make Xbox 1 emulator updates easy for people without Xboxlive. Also custom soundtrack support will improve 100,000%(That is if the developers bother to include support for that in their games, Namco/Sega/everyone else I'm looking at you).

[captain ahar]

...Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth...

OT sorry, but is anyone else bowled over that this was actually released?

[jpolz]

Am I the only that doesn't care if Xbox 360 can play Xbox 1 games??

Did people pitch a bitch when Dreamcast didn't play Ssaturn games, or SNES didn't play NES games? No. If you're really concerned about playing Xbox 1 games, you already have one. It's not like Xbox 360 is going to come out and your old Xbox is going to stop functioning.

God forbid console makers concentrate on advancing their product rather than sacrificing new capabilities and features so you can play 5 year old titles.

[nZero]

Did people pitch a bitch when ... SNES didn't play NES games?

Yes, in fact I did. Plus I was for damn sure hoping that cart slot on the Saturn was for Genesis and/or 32X games when it came out. Of course by the time the DC came out I was pretty jaded to the idea of ever seeing another console with backwards compatability after the power base converter for the Genesis. Now the PS2 has made it something to shoot for... and I wish it would have happened earlier. If it was well-executed then I'd have a lot fewer consoles to keep after without having to reduce my game library any, I think.

Funny that the trend kicked in right around the time system architectures are changing enough to make true and complete emulation of newer systems uncomfortable. I wonder how much of the X-Box "emulator" packages are made up of patched system calls to the X-360 APIs.

[Neo Rasa]

(That is if the developers bother to include support for that in their games, Namco/Sega/everyone else I'm looking at you).

I'm hoping they do. There's a cool trick they showed off at the Gamestop manager's conference: One of the XBox reps walked up to a demo unit with an iPod, selected a song, and it started streaming as the game's background music. Fading in perfectly as the new BGM with the sound effects/game still going without any load time or hiccup or anything.

If that makes it as a standard I'll be enjoying listening to all my SNK arranged cds as the music for, well, every game I play.

I was indeed shocked that Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth got released. Only on XBox so far too. The PC version might get canned, if it gets released it will be in March. 2K Games blew their load this year with regards to what big games were coming out, and Call of Cthulhu was the victim of conflicted priorities as to what should be worked on and marketed and so on. Definitely one of the quietest releases for a "major" game ever. Though supposedly there's some aggressive marketing for it in most of this month's DC comics.

[Dylan1CC]

Now I have to buy an XBox 1 just to play my copy of Orta and if I wanna give Splinter Cell or Outrun a spin?

Why do you own those games if you don't own an Xbox? And where do you get the idea that the 360 won't support Splinter Cell, which has been one of the defining series for MS (despite being multi-platform, the Xbox versions were always the best by far)? And your friends' copies of Splinter Cell are still perfectly playable on the system they were designed for. If they sold their Xboxes because they figured all their games would be compatible right off the bat with the 360 despite MS saying that compatibility wouldn't be anywhere near 100% at launch, your friends have nobody to blame but themselves.

People are aware that this is an initial compatibility list and that titles are going to be added constantly, right? It's just what will be compatible at launch. Updates will be added routinely, and to take a quote from that very site:

We’ll give gamers a choice—you can get the latest software updates from Xbox Live, burn a CD from xbox.com or sign up on Xbox.com for a CD that can be delivered to your home at a nominal shipping and handling fee. Once you get the CD, put it in your Xbox 360 and you’re ready to go.

Yes, full compatibility right out of the gate would have been fantastic, but the hardware for the 360 simply doesn't support easy backward compatibility like the PS2 or GBA did. It has to use emulation.

Have just never gotten around to buying one because I am too busy buying games for my current systems, imports, stuff like PCBs plus my brother and all my friends have XBoxes which I can borrow any time I want.

Anyways, my bad and major apoligies for missing that the BC list will be ever-growing.

[dave4shmups]

The thing is that MS and Sony each could open the door for their respective formats via a successful launch of their consoles. If people buy a lot of PS3s, then Sony and the blu-ray can start pressing and selling their movies to an installed user base. ("Buy Little Nicky HD Edition in Blu-ray. Plays on your PS3!). And then force people to buy the movies they already own in digital format. Again. And then rake in the profits from the licensing deals. Sony invented the format, therefore they will be entitled to a percentage of pretty much anything it's sold in that flavor. (Correct me if wrong).

Microsoft uses a codec of their invention in HD-DVD. Any disc sold with that means profits for them.

(Yeah, I know a big "duh" is in effect.) They just want to out gun each other in the war to secure their royalties.

Knowing Sony, they'll wing it and release buggy or faulty PS3s and players, then force people to buy a revised slimmer version that doesn't suck that much but overheats.

Its my understanding, from an actual Database administrator for the Department of Defense, that cell processors have a tendency to die.

That's the only time I've ever heard anything less then amazing about the cell processor. And I suppose this person cannot be named due to governmental top secrecy.

And as far as people not wanting to own both consoles, that's a logical matter of space issue-not everyone has the room to own both an XBOX and a 360, a PS2 and a PS3, etc. If Sony can afford as much backwards compatibilty as the PS3 will have, the House of Gates sure as heck can. 1 point extra for that? I'd say more in the range of 1,000.

At any rate, it just really pisses me off royally that Sony and Microsoft are practically forcing people to go HD. Now we're supposed to have 2 different TV sets, or our old-school games will look like crap, and our next-gen PS3 and XBOX 360 will look no better then their predecessors!


Thank Heavens for Nintendo is about all I can say at this point!

[GaijinPunch]

At any rate, it just really pisses me off royally that Sony and Microsoft are practically forcing people to go HD. Now we're supposed to have 2 different TV sets, or our old-school games will look like crap, and our next-gen PS3 and XBOX 360 will look no better then their predecessors!

I'm glad they're pushing HD. Hopefully that'll get the ball rolling and eventually new stuff will be in HD, and old stuff can stay low res. At some point, you're going to have to either let go of your old TV set, buy two different kinds, or just have crappy looking old games. FYI -- they only look shitty on a flat screen. HD CRT Tvs are still old-friendly (no?).

[system11]

At any rate, it just really pisses me off royally that Sony and Microsoft are practically forcing people to go HD. Now we're supposed to have 2 different TV sets, or our old-school games will look like crap, and our next-gen PS3 and XBOX 360 will look no better then their predecessors!

I'm glad they're pushing HD. Hopefully that'll get the ball rolling and eventually new stuff will be in HD, and old stuff can stay low res. At some point, you're going to have to either let go of your old TV set, buy two different kinds, or just have crappy looking old games. FYI -- they only look shitty on a flat screen. HD CRT Tvs are still old-friendly (no?).

No way - Fuck HD. It's a needless immature tech being forced upon consumers by companies desperate to sell us something new. The difference between a standard res RGB TV and a HD set is pretty minimal really - it's nothing to warrant ridiculous $2000 outlays on new TVs.

[The n00b]

At any rate, it just really pisses me off royally that Sony and Microsoft are practically forcing people to go HD. Now we're supposed to have 2 different TV sets, or our old-school games will look like crap, and our next-gen PS3 and XBOX 360 will look no better then their predecessors!

I'm glad they're pushing HD. Hopefully that'll get the ball rolling and eventually new stuff will be in HD, and old stuff can stay low res. At some point, you're going to have to either let go of your old TV set, buy two different kinds, or just have crappy looking old games. FYI -- they only look shitty on a flat screen. HD CRT Tvs are still old-friendly (no?).

No way - Fuck HD. It's a needless immature tech being forced upon consumers by companies desperate to sell us something new. The difference between a standard res RGB TV and a HD set is pretty minimal really - it's nothing to warrant ridiculous $2000 outlays on new TVs.

I have one. Why don't you just buy a cheap lcd set if it bothers you so much?

[Neo Rasa]

No way - Fuck HD. It's a needless immature tech being forced upon consumers by companies desperate to sell us something new. The difference between a standard res RGB TV and a HD set is pretty minimal really - it's nothing to warrant ridiculous $2000 outlays on new TVs.

Aaaah but here in the US most people don't have RGB, which in and of itself is a huge step up from our single yellow cable or our RF-converters that mash everything into a gray box.

That said, everyone has access to S-Video here, which is somewhere in between. And on current generation games at least, the jump from S-Video to progressive/HD/etc. really isn't all that great. The only exceptions I can think of are some Gamecube games like the Metroid Primes and Resident Evil 4. Those go from beautiful to OH MY GOD THE FUTURE!!!! when running in progressive.


I don't think their pushing HD is going to make a huge difference in when HD gets rolled out as a standard in the US one way or the other. To be honest I'm glad Nintendo is just sticking with progressive with the Revolution so that the overall system can be cheaper.

[captain ahar]

i for one think that someone should go back in time and make sure that rgb finds its way as a display standard in american television/video display equipment...

ok... go...

[dave4shmups]

i for one think that someone should go back in time and make sure that rgb finds its way as a display standard in american television/video display equipment...

ok... go...

What exactly is RGB anyway? I hear it mentioned all the time on this site, but have no idea what it is. And aren't RGB monitors for sale in this country, anyway?

In any case, I'll get to see what the 360 looks like on a standard TV later this week. After I picked up my pre-paid copy of Dragon Quest VIII (It got released a week early; YEA! ) at Game Crazy today, I called the manager back, and asked him if he knew where I could see what an XBOX 360 looks like on a non-HDTV-he informed me that the 360 they're getting in later this week will be hooked up to such a TV. So I'll have to report back on any differences I notice; I'm really anxious, in any case, to see what it will look like after having played that 360 at EBX games that was hooked up to a Samsung HDTV, last week.

I have to agree, to a certain extent with Bloodflowers-dropping $2000 on a TV is ridiculous; just because it looks a little better. Honestly, I don't mind the way current gen games look at all on American TV's-although that Samsung HDTV at EBX costs around $400-and that's not too much more then a similar sized regular TV over here.

As far as 360 compatibility goes, I suppose it will improve as the system ages. (And I may end up keeping my PS3 if PS1 and PS2 light-guns that are currently out there don't work on the PS3-I SHALL NOT SUFFER THE LOSS OF RAIL SHOOTING!! -ahem.) I just don't understand why a company as with the financial resouces that Microsoft posesses couldn't make the thing fully backwards compatible to begin with.

[Specineff]

I beg to differ. After seeing Cannon Spike and Ikaruga on Undamned's HDTV set, I was sold. The displays have the capability to show incredibly detailed and vivid pictures. It depends on the source. For the Iky and Cannon Spike, think VGA quality. On a huge-ass screen.

If the source is low-res, it's going to look like crap. HDTV native material will blow you away.

Of course, RGB is lovely too.

[FatCobra]

Due to some unwritten law forced upon me that states that I must be broke at all times and be forever doomed to play on old, outdated hardware. Which means I'm buying an Xbox pretty soon.

I don't care if the Xbox is now considered obsolite, the 360 has alot of things going wrong for it and I can't afford one right now anyway.

[Neo Rasa]

Now's an awesome time to get an XBox, there's a bunch of great games on it that are $20 new if even that.