MY FIRST POST!!!!! HELLO EVERYONE

[Odinslayer]

Since this is my first post to the forum I thought I would at least say hello to the community before asking my first question..so HELLO!!!

I want to adopt a game engine and I think I might want to work with Flash and actionscript
If you guys have any suggestions please lemme know! I want to create a 2d game with 3d elements....
I don't know if anyone has played or heard of the game shogun for droid devices....3d background objects etc etc. really cool game
wish there where more levels!!!!

So basically the bulk of my work has been in adobe illustrator and Photoshop, I've Enjoyed sidescrollers since I was a kid.....LIFEFORCE
KONAMI was my first intro to the genre

Over the years Ive contemplated making a sidescroller and Just now within the last couple months have been compiling information and
trying to decipher and understand this richly diverse universe, of Computer animation. "so yes Im assuming all of you can smell noob" from a
mile away lol yes how true to the tune it is....I am very new to this Art......but please know I am very passionate and a hardworker and I
take great pride in my work and am very open to constructive critisiscm...and all of this game creation....is very humbling and my hat is off
to those who have spent years and countless hours perfected their skills and imagining lush worlds and dreaming up code......thank you to
the pioneers of this genre!!!!

so I like to take one step at a time and I thought creating my artwork and designing ships would be the best place to start.
Ive worked on a prototype Main character
I will soon be creating an account with deviantart or a similar place so that I can upload pictures....

but my questions are.....along the lines of how to create a dynamic character?
I have no problem creating a static Image and I understand the concept of sprite sheets partially, Im sure there are concepts I still know
nothing about.....but I often contemplate as to what style of image is better for these games?
Vector Art.....or say Bit sprites I like the vector style for its HD appeal!!!! but it seems like it would be hard to manipulate the image to create
sprite sheets and dynamic characters things like wings popping out, flashing lights afterburner effects. morphing....add on weapons upgrades ect. etc. but the thing I find about vector is that when enlarged it is visually stunning the amount of detail the eye can see
but when shrunk to sprite size....its beauty in all its glory is lost in translation...where pixel sprites may be less detailed but when shrunk
maintain there integrity...I may be wrong lemme know!!!

Now please if you will.....imagine a vertical scroller the main ship faces upward but as it moves across the screen the ship turns into the wind
and against it to give it a realistic dynamic visual appeal......basically how is this process done????
how do I manipulate copies of the base image to create a dynamic character.....do I free transform? do I warp the image?
do I import it into flash builder or flash pro and work with it there???? do I start cutting wings off?????? basically how do I make my baby fly!!!
or well look as if its flying static images are lame and not very visually stimulating

take gradius for example the ship moves horizontally but when you move about the ship actually angles it self to give the illusion of flight
I understand you must make an animation with multiple images in flash.....but what are the artistic steps in order to manipulate the image
to create copies ever so slightly different.. is this process hard with vector images or the same as a pixel image???

are there resources on the web that could help me with this?
is this post designated to the proper forum or are there other dedicated forums out there that could help me understand dynamic characters?

I hope I posted this in the right spot.....development seems like the right category... all I can find on youtube is how to manipulate
character sprites for RPG's nothing that helps me understand ship sprites......ive seen ship sprites that do barrel rolls!!!!!

and basically.......Its awesome!!!
thanks in advance.........I look forward to eventually being able to contribute instead of needing direction!

[nasty_wolverine]

drop flash, use Game Maker, check out GMOSSE... will cover all your needs + newbie friendly
for creating animations, use pre-renders in either blender or sketchup (or any 3d software you prefer), or do it the hard way and make every frame by hand.
Sprites are nothing but a large image, which contains smaller images or frames, which you programmatically show one at a time.

IMHO shogun on android is very good to base visuals on, but i wouldnt borrow any off it mechanics because its very euroshmuppish.
BE A MAN AND GO PLAY MARS MATRIX.

dont hesitate to ask questions if you need help.

[BPzeBanshee]

For the purposes of making games I say Game Maker is a lot more specialised and better for this purpose than Flash - not that games can't be done in Flash, but it's more difficult to do and then there's the performance and complexity issues. This contention is not one shared by every person, each to their own, but to get off the ground I think it's worth you having a look before settling on a choice. In regards to graphics, vectors are really a Flash thing, I've not seen other games really use vectors but rather plain sprites, which Game Maker does quite well.

If you're going from Flash to another device perhaps my Warbird project (see signature) may be of use to you. It began as a school project in Flash and then I ported it to GM in about 15 minutes (the flash game took several weeks because I was a n00b).

GMOSSE will show you just about everything that a good shmup should have in terms of functionality and basic gameplay, but I've had some feedback suggesting the code wasn't too friendly to look into at the time - Warbird on the other hand (which is essentially a stripped down version of GMOSSE) was simple enough that my friend Kaiser was able to look at it, get the general idea of how it worked, and start off his own project Zenodyne. Worth looking into, and if you have any questions on things in that department I'm more than happy to help.

[Odinslayer]

Thank you Banshee and Wolverine for giving your expertise.....deeply appreciated!!!! GMOSSE and Gamemaker sounds like a fun development strategy.....proving grounds if you will..

But my question was maybe misleading in the fact that I just want to know how to manipulate vector art or pixel art to achieve
DYNAMIC CHARACTERS its not a "code" thing yet

For example I played PULSTAR.....last night NEO GEO YAY!!!....brutal game but very good IMHO
and I mean for being a MAME game the graphics where amazing for example how the bosses morphed and the moving. throbbing backgrounds and all the dynamic enemies and of course the main characters traits as well....it seems to be a mix between vector and pixel

I Just want to animate great backgrounds, bosses, characters, enemies, etc etc....

the Code can come later...I think that whats most important is the visual appeal and how REAL the screen becomes that's all

can someone help me with animation!!!!!>>> lol or give me tips

I will have a sample pic up today....to use as a base point

[nasty_wolverine]

All that u see is hand crafted 2d pixel art, made a pixel at a time. All frames of animation(each different movement image u see) are seperate images shown one after the other... Search how to use sprite sheets.
Also, code and art go hand in hand, either is neither without the other. Although u can make a good game with out uber cool graphics, but not the other way round.

[Odinslayer]

http://odinslayer88.deviantart.com/art/ ... 1378330465


Heres the link of my Image on Deviant art

To give you guys a visual

Now.....how do I make this baby fly......even if its in flash animations for now I really don't care I just wanna make it move
and be dynamic thanks!!!!! a bunch

[nasty_wolverine]

First of all, dont create unnecessary topics when you could have posted in your previous thread.
Second, you dont really need to animate to create shmups, check out danmaku unlimited, the only things animated are the menus and bullets.
Third, you are talking about banking animations, which i explained in the previous thread. use pre-renders or draw each banking animation frame by hand.
Read resources on how sprite animation works. Thats your starting point.

[Odinslayer]

hey wolverine....accidently made a new post.
Okay so thanks!!!

so does anyone have a thread on animating a ship sprite?

I understand the diffrences between Pre Renders and traditional sprite sheets......I understand that you need blender or a similar
program in order to create 3d conversions of 2d drawings in order to make a dynamic 2d sprite with 3d qualities....and I also understand
that in order to do so you need multiple pictures of the same image that differ ever so slightly to produce the illusion.....I get it man

either way you still need to create those frames....frame by frame sprite by sprite
I just need pointers on how to frame this ship that's all man....I just wanna make a good sprite sheet and I don't know how to make
changes to the ship to make extra frames?

Pointers.....info....links.....resources.......I mean if it pretty much comes down to my imagination to create extra frames than so be it
but there has to be guidelines or rules so that the first image stays true to the rest of moving images.....

and basically....I guess its a matter of opinion that you don't necessarily need great graphics to produce good games...
but seriously 99.9% of the time crappy graphics ruin good games...I don't wanna make lifeforce 2 or salamander man....been there done
that....and seriously I understand that in the day the systems they where using where limited....
and....the systems we use know can handle 110% as much as the systems of the day could and have way more power under the hood

and yet the games of yesterday some of them anyways still out marvel whats being produced today...
Im not into frekkin geometry wars dude....or seeing how many bullets I can put on the screen

First im trying to create the story and highly detailed graphics and make base animations....
basically I don't want to waste my time with a game that's coded to the tits but has shitty graphics.
the art is what makes these games so appealing and memorable...not the code man

[nasty_wolverine]

http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/26756/
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=665
with under a minute of google fu. You will have to learn from example. And you need to know art theory and understand what perspective is.

but seriously 99.9% of the time crappy graphics ruin good games.

You definitely havent played Giest's or Gustavs games, have you? You will find people here give a damn about the graphics if the gameplay sucks.

First im trying to create the story and highly detailed graphics and make base animations....
basically I don't want to waste my time with a game that's coded to the tits but has shitty graphics.
the art is what makes these games so appealing and memorable...not the code man

You will soon learn why Sine Mora gets a lot of flak around here.

I don't wanna make lifeforce 2 or salamander man....been there done that....

O RLY?

[Odinslayer]

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nebula-Ar ... -189656544

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Firestorm ... r-66692290

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Boss-clas ... -117117522


http://www.deviantart.com/art/Large-cla ... -101218347


http://www.deviantart.com/art/GO-TURN-363793233

stuff like this but street fighters HD QUALITY?

[Odinslayer]

Im straight up 2d graphics all the way.....3d graphics are overated to a certain extent.

sine mora not my cup of tea......gustav and geist did a quick look up on youtube....and if I understand correctly your trying
to show me how....these games lacked good gameplay...but supposedly the graphics where amazing? .....? "good graphics????"

Think of old school Final Fantasy Boss battles straight up 2D and wicked!!! now imagine if they where HD quality and moved
shot bullets out of their mouths and breathed fire......

I just wanna do something aesthetically appleasing and not static man...HD Quality Graphics!!! that move and are dynamic

think street fighters man???? HD Vs. Oldschool?

and about lifeforce and salamander no I have not constructed these games....but that's the point I don't wanna even make anything
similar....graphics wise cause it makes my brain hurt to see poorly constructed bitmap images that's all man?
Ive played many hours on countless consoles........
I don't live in the eighties bro.

thanks for the raiden fighter sprite sheet.....definitely outlines the ship moving.....have never seen this sheet before.
as for the other one ive seen.....

don't take things personally man...I mean your pretty much the only person on this forum that has thrown your ideas out and for that.
im grateful..

[BPzeBanshee]

I imagine some of the more tricky visual effects are related to scaling too (see Rayforce), but for the most part, it is indeed all sprites and presenting a different sprite within a cycle. For instance, have a look at this:


If you read from left to right then you can see in most cases it's just a simple matter of changing the sprite as it appears. I'm sure there's probably a page somewhere that can explain it better than I though.

[BPzeBanshee]

sine mora not my cup of tea......gustav and geist did a quick look up on youtube....and if I understand correctly your trying
to show me how....these games lacked good gameplay...but supposedly the graphics where amazing? .....? "good graphics????"

Reverse. The graphics suck, the gameplay rocks your socks off.

Sine Mora is a case of great graphics and completely shit gameplay, along with when someone decides they want to make more story than game, and make more movie and art than game. Seriously, in our experience, 99.9% of the time focusing on great graphics and nothing else ruin what could've been good games. There are however, good games that do both.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

but seriously 99.9% of the time crappy graphics ruin good games...

No. A good game with 'bad' graphics is still a good game; a bad game with good graphics is garbage to play and nobody will like it except people who care only for eye candy and not gameplay. I can think of tons of shmups, let alone games in general (<3 Nethack), with very basic graphics and far, far better gameplay than in more recent shmups where it's clear they had no idea what they were doing with respect to gameplay other than making it look pretty. It's important to remember that minimalist or simple graphics does not mean 'bad'.

See: Tumiki Fighters
Area Flat 1, 2 and 3
noiz2sa
Solid State Survivor
Triangle Wizard

Your ship does not have to have a tilting animation for it to be considered a good game, or even more than simply basic graphics. The important thing is that the graphics, regardless of how simple or detailed they are, work with the gameplay.

and about lifeforce and salamander no I have not constructed these games....but that's the point I don't wanna even make anything
similar....graphics wise cause it makes my brain hurt to see poorly constructed bitmap images that's all man?

I think you're underestimating the time, effort, and detail that goes into making sprite-based games look gorgeous.

[Dave_K.]

[modedit] I merged your PIC thread back into this thread. [/modedit]

[tibone]

If Lifeforce is ugly, then i need to get my eyes checked.
I find the graphics in LifeForce to be extra charming. And i would love to be able to great a game with such crisp presentation as LF.
In fact, the attention to detail in LifeForce is amazing.

Anyway, a good game is more about gameplay than graphics. IF you can combine both, great, if not, your focus should be on gameplay. Always. It's not even genre-related, it's just game logic.