Always remember the bombs. Good bombing habits take some learning but they can take you really far in terms of basic survival. In general, you should learn to bomb whenever you feel like you're not in full control of the situation anymore. If you wait until you're just a moment from dying, it's often too late to react succesfully.Spirit X wrote:A lot of my misses occur as a big, fast pattern approaches and I reflexively pull back on the stick to give me a second to figure out where the gaps are (what ProMeTheus called 'going with the flow' in his guide). Sometimes my eyes will kind of 'click in' just in the nick of time, allowing me to nip into the gap, other times they won't and I get obliterated.
The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Thanks Erppo. It is indeed something I often forget. Although, I've been of the opinion that I should be using bombs when attempting full runs, but not relying on them while practicing individual stages. Especially when, for example, I'm only on the third stage, I figure I need to learn to get through the stage cleanly without needing bombs, so that I have them available for the final stage and final boss.
Well I've played 1-2 hours a day since the weekend and I think I'm finally able to move stage 3 from the Learning column to the Practice column. I sure as hell do need to practice it lots to increase my consistecy but I have at least finished plotting out my path through the stage. The final section before the boss is particularly troublesome. When those 6 or 7 larger bugs come out and start spraying the screen, it can get real messy real quick and I'm finding that if, during that section, I get even a little behind on where I should be, the situation often becomes unrecoverable.
Thankfully I'm not finding the third boss too much of a nightmare, although I do want to put aside an hour or two to practice it, just to ensure I always know what's coming next. While I've been practicing though, there's so much slow down durnig the boss fight that it's quite easy to find the gaps in plenty of time.
As I'm now moving on to learning stage 4, I credit fed to the end again today to remind myself what stages 4 and 5 look like. Survival on stage 4 doesn't actually look too scary and I only lost one life tapping my way through it on reaction. I'm not planning to get too caught up with score from here on as I feel like I'd just like to get the 1cc now and then asses whether or not I'd like to sink more time into the game or move on to something else.
Side note: For the benefit of some of the other beginners who have posted earlier in the thread, I just wanted to plug STG Weekly which I found recently on Youtube. It's a show hosted by forum members Aquas and Frenetic during which they watch high-level shmup replays and commentate with their guests. Sometimes Aquas will attempt live 1cc runs too, which is always entertaining. If you haven't watched it then check it out, it's a really fun show and it's often interesting to hear players commentate on their own runs. You can find the STG Weekly thread here.
Well I've played 1-2 hours a day since the weekend and I think I'm finally able to move stage 3 from the Learning column to the Practice column. I sure as hell do need to practice it lots to increase my consistecy but I have at least finished plotting out my path through the stage. The final section before the boss is particularly troublesome. When those 6 or 7 larger bugs come out and start spraying the screen, it can get real messy real quick and I'm finding that if, during that section, I get even a little behind on where I should be, the situation often becomes unrecoverable.
Thankfully I'm not finding the third boss too much of a nightmare, although I do want to put aside an hour or two to practice it, just to ensure I always know what's coming next. While I've been practicing though, there's so much slow down durnig the boss fight that it's quite easy to find the gaps in plenty of time.
As I'm now moving on to learning stage 4, I credit fed to the end again today to remind myself what stages 4 and 5 look like. Survival on stage 4 doesn't actually look too scary and I only lost one life tapping my way through it on reaction. I'm not planning to get too caught up with score from here on as I feel like I'd just like to get the 1cc now and then asses whether or not I'd like to sink more time into the game or move on to something else.
Side note: For the benefit of some of the other beginners who have posted earlier in the thread, I just wanted to plug STG Weekly which I found recently on Youtube. It's a show hosted by forum members Aquas and Frenetic during which they watch high-level shmup replays and commentate with their guests. Sometimes Aquas will attempt live 1cc runs too, which is always entertaining. If you haven't watched it then check it out, it's a really fun show and it's often interesting to hear players commentate on their own runs. You can find the STG Weekly thread here.
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Been practicing stage 4 a bit the past few days. It's a very different experience to practice this stage because the the whole thing kind of feels like one big popcorn rush which is making it hard for me to memorise very well.
I think it's great practice though. I've been reading about various techniques over the past few weeks (micro/ macro dodging, streaming, cutbacks etc...) and stage 4 almost feels like it is purposefully designed to make you practice these things. The whole stage is basically tap dodging with the occasional need to cutback through the bullets (usually if I get out of position).
So I feel like I am starting to get the hang of the cutback move now. It seems to me that the trick to pulling it off smoothly is recognising that you're going to need to cutback as early as possible (i.e. well before you reach the edge of the screen). Then it's just a quick move up and to the side in order to create the gap in the bullet stream, then quickly down and nip through the gap. It actually makes me feel like a bonafide shmupper and is very satisfying when pulled off correctly.
One thing I would note is that in all the strategy threads I've read, I can't remember seeing anyone mention the fact that when you're tap dodging, you shouldn't go right to the edge of the screen. At least, not unless it's a pre-planned maneuver and you know that the attack will soon finish or you have enough room to go up the side and across the top of the screen. It's got me in trouble many times and I'm slowly learning to start thinking about the cutback when I get about 4 ship widths from the edge now.
The first half of stage 4 is very easy, when playing for survival at least, and the only real sticking point for me can be during the popcorn rush before the mid-boss if I'm not completely on the ball. If I make it to stage 4 with no miss/ no bomb (which is starting to happen occassionally), my overall counter is hitting 100,000 just before this rush and it can make the mid-boss pretty crazy in terms of bullet speed. It's his second attack that can be hard to read at high speed but after some practice I've realised that you don't really need to 'see' the gaps because the middle of the pattern is aimed so I've been teaching myself the correct tempo of tap dodging to get through it.
The second half of the stage is mostly fine but there's just a couple of bits with the big crickets and worms that often catch me out. Again, due to the kind of generic nature of the stage, I'm finding it hard to remember when they're coming up at the moment, so I'm still kind of playing through it on reaction mostly.
Tried a few Score Attack runs for fun too recently and I've made it to stage 5 once or twice now (best score so far: 480 mil) so I'm feeling positive about making some measurable progress and I think there's a good chance that I'll be practicing stage 5 this weekend.
I think it's great practice though. I've been reading about various techniques over the past few weeks (micro/ macro dodging, streaming, cutbacks etc...) and stage 4 almost feels like it is purposefully designed to make you practice these things. The whole stage is basically tap dodging with the occasional need to cutback through the bullets (usually if I get out of position).
So I feel like I am starting to get the hang of the cutback move now. It seems to me that the trick to pulling it off smoothly is recognising that you're going to need to cutback as early as possible (i.e. well before you reach the edge of the screen). Then it's just a quick move up and to the side in order to create the gap in the bullet stream, then quickly down and nip through the gap. It actually makes me feel like a bonafide shmupper and is very satisfying when pulled off correctly.
One thing I would note is that in all the strategy threads I've read, I can't remember seeing anyone mention the fact that when you're tap dodging, you shouldn't go right to the edge of the screen. At least, not unless it's a pre-planned maneuver and you know that the attack will soon finish or you have enough room to go up the side and across the top of the screen. It's got me in trouble many times and I'm slowly learning to start thinking about the cutback when I get about 4 ship widths from the edge now.
The first half of stage 4 is very easy, when playing for survival at least, and the only real sticking point for me can be during the popcorn rush before the mid-boss if I'm not completely on the ball. If I make it to stage 4 with no miss/ no bomb (which is starting to happen occassionally), my overall counter is hitting 100,000 just before this rush and it can make the mid-boss pretty crazy in terms of bullet speed. It's his second attack that can be hard to read at high speed but after some practice I've realised that you don't really need to 'see' the gaps because the middle of the pattern is aimed so I've been teaching myself the correct tempo of tap dodging to get through it.
The second half of the stage is mostly fine but there's just a couple of bits with the big crickets and worms that often catch me out. Again, due to the kind of generic nature of the stage, I'm finding it hard to remember when they're coming up at the moment, so I'm still kind of playing through it on reaction mostly.
Tried a few Score Attack runs for fun too recently and I've made it to stage 5 once or twice now (best score so far: 480 mil) so I'm feeling positive about making some measurable progress and I think there's a good chance that I'll be practicing stage 5 this weekend.
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Well the weekend turned out to be a bit of a wash out in the end. We had a three day bank holiday weekend in the UK and my friends and family were so insistent on being social that I had to actually leave the house and do stuff.
So nothing much to report really. I did grab an hour's practice on Monday evening but having not played since Thursday, I felt a bit out of touch with Reco. Just did a couple of full runs and played frustratingly badly. I feel like it's taking me a ridiculously long time to get any kind of consistency in Futari. I still frequently die on the first stage! It does make me feel like maybe I just don't have 'it' and I should just throw in the towel sometimes. Everyone said that after Deathsmiles, Mushi Futari BL was then next 'easy clear' that should only take a few days of practice....and hear I am, what, a month later. Eurgh.
Just have to keep reminding myself that, although it may be slow progress, I am at least gradually getting better and further into the game, bit by bit.
Anyway, I need to temper my eagerness to get onto stage 5 a bit. I still have a couple of sticking points to practice in stage 4 and then want to put an hour or two into the boss. So that's what I'll be focusing on over the next few days.
So nothing much to report really. I did grab an hour's practice on Monday evening but having not played since Thursday, I felt a bit out of touch with Reco. Just did a couple of full runs and played frustratingly badly. I feel like it's taking me a ridiculously long time to get any kind of consistency in Futari. I still frequently die on the first stage! It does make me feel like maybe I just don't have 'it' and I should just throw in the towel sometimes. Everyone said that after Deathsmiles, Mushi Futari BL was then next 'easy clear' that should only take a few days of practice....and hear I am, what, a month later. Eurgh.
Just have to keep reminding myself that, although it may be slow progress, I am at least gradually getting better and further into the game, bit by bit.
Anyway, I need to temper my eagerness to get onto stage 5 a bit. I still have a couple of sticking points to practice in stage 4 and then want to put an hour or two into the boss. So that's what I'll be focusing on over the next few days.
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
After making my last post I was browsing the chat forum and read through the first couple of pages of this thread. Basically people talking about how easily they 1CCd Futari BL Original.
It started making me feel...well, not 'angry' exactly but a bit frustrated at myself because I know in myself that, all things considered, I'm a generally pretty good at arcade sytle games and I should be doing better at Futari.
So I thought fuck this and sat down at the 360 and 1CCd it straight away. It was a pretty bad run really but still managed to finish with a life or two in stock. I took Erppo's advice from a few posts earlier and made sure that I bombed straight away whenever I started to feel like I was losing control. It meant I used some bombs earlier than I would usually even have considered hovering my finger over the bomb button but the result was that I was using up bombs instead of using up lives.
I am pleased to have to got the 1CC but I also feel like a bit of a fool for making such a meal of it. I guess was hoping to finish it with a half decent score but was also getting impatient because there are other games I'd like to try. I finished my run with 480 million btw. I think it pretty much equals my best score so far.
What I am particualarly pleased about is that I now feel free to wander off and explore some other games. I'd really like to find a game that I fall in love with enough to start with the 1CC and then continue to explore for score etc...
As much as I do love Mushi Futari, I don't think it's my waifu. At least not yet and not Black Label as I'm not really into the point blanking scoring mechanics. I think playing for score in BL is just better suited to a player of more experience than me right now. I will certainly have a few games on 1.5 over the next few days though, just for a fun to try it out.
For now, I'm tired and I want to go to bed. Somebody show me the way to go home.
It started making me feel...well, not 'angry' exactly but a bit frustrated at myself because I know in myself that, all things considered, I'm a generally pretty good at arcade sytle games and I should be doing better at Futari.
So I thought fuck this and sat down at the 360 and 1CCd it straight away. It was a pretty bad run really but still managed to finish with a life or two in stock. I took Erppo's advice from a few posts earlier and made sure that I bombed straight away whenever I started to feel like I was losing control. It meant I used some bombs earlier than I would usually even have considered hovering my finger over the bomb button but the result was that I was using up bombs instead of using up lives.
I am pleased to have to got the 1CC but I also feel like a bit of a fool for making such a meal of it. I guess was hoping to finish it with a half decent score but was also getting impatient because there are other games I'd like to try. I finished my run with 480 million btw. I think it pretty much equals my best score so far.
What I am particualarly pleased about is that I now feel free to wander off and explore some other games. I'd really like to find a game that I fall in love with enough to start with the 1CC and then continue to explore for score etc...
As much as I do love Mushi Futari, I don't think it's my waifu. At least not yet and not Black Label as I'm not really into the point blanking scoring mechanics. I think playing for score in BL is just better suited to a player of more experience than me right now. I will certainly have a few games on 1.5 over the next few days though, just for a fun to try it out.
For now, I'm tired and I want to go to bed. Somebody show me the way to go home.
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
After making my last post I was browsing the chat forum and read through the first couple of pages of this thread. Basically people talking about how easily they 1CCd Futari BL Original.
It started making me feel...well, not 'angry' exactly but a bit frustrated at myself because I know in myself that, all things considered, I'm a generally pretty good at arcade sytle games and I should be doing better at Futari.
So I thought fuck this and sat down at the 360 and 1CCd it straight away. It was a pretty bad run really but still managed to finish with a life or two in stock. I took Erppo's advice from a few posts earlier and made sure that I bombed straight away whenever I started to feel like I was losing control. It meant I used some bombs earlier than I would usually even have considered hovering my finger over the bomb button but the result was that I was using up bombs instead of using up lives.
I am pleased to have to got the 1CC but I also feel like a bit of a fool for making such a meal of it. I guess I was hoping to finish it with a half decent score but was also getting impatient because there are other games I'd like to try. I finished my run with 480 million btw. I think it pretty much equals my best score so far.
What I am particualarly pleased about is that I now feel free to wander off and explore some other games. I'd really like to find a game that I fall in love with enough to start with the 1CC and then continue to explore for score etc...
As much as I do love Mushi Futari, I don't think it's my waifu. At least not yet and not Black Label as I'm not really into the point blanking scoring mechanics. I think playing for score in BL is just better suited to a player of more experience than me right now. I will certainly have a few games on 1.5 over the next few days though, just for some fun to try it out.
For now, I'm tired and I want to go to bed. Somebody show me the way to go home.
It started making me feel...well, not 'angry' exactly but a bit frustrated at myself because I know in myself that, all things considered, I'm a generally pretty good at arcade sytle games and I should be doing better at Futari.
So I thought fuck this and sat down at the 360 and 1CCd it straight away. It was a pretty bad run really but still managed to finish with a life or two in stock. I took Erppo's advice from a few posts earlier and made sure that I bombed straight away whenever I started to feel like I was losing control. It meant I used some bombs earlier than I would usually even have considered hovering my finger over the bomb button but the result was that I was using up bombs instead of using up lives.
I am pleased to have to got the 1CC but I also feel like a bit of a fool for making such a meal of it. I guess I was hoping to finish it with a half decent score but was also getting impatient because there are other games I'd like to try. I finished my run with 480 million btw. I think it pretty much equals my best score so far.
What I am particualarly pleased about is that I now feel free to wander off and explore some other games. I'd really like to find a game that I fall in love with enough to start with the 1CC and then continue to explore for score etc...
As much as I do love Mushi Futari, I don't think it's my waifu. At least not yet and not Black Label as I'm not really into the point blanking scoring mechanics. I think playing for score in BL is just better suited to a player of more experience than me right now. I will certainly have a few games on 1.5 over the next few days though, just for some fun to try it out.
For now, I'm tired and I want to go to bed. Somebody show me the way to go home.
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Hah congrats man! I can relate well to that feeling. Don't sell yourself short though, if you don't let yourself appreciate victories you'll find yourself questioning why you bother playing after a while.
Any thoughts on what you might tackle next? I have a lot of nice things to say about Raiden Fighters 2
Any thoughts on what you might tackle next? I have a lot of nice things to say about Raiden Fighters 2
1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki
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nasty_wolverine
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:44 pm
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Congrats man, good job... now be a man and go play MARS MATRIX
Elysian Door - Naraka (my WIP PC STG) in development hell for the moment
Re: The Idiot's Shmup Diary
Aaargh! Mars Matrix. I do actually have it on Dreamcast and I think it was one of the games that scared me off of shmups a few years ago. 'Tis awesome thonasty_wolverine wrote:Congrats man, good job... now be a man and go play MARS MATRIX
Thanks Deca. I had a delayed feeling of satisfaction. Didn't really get me until I got up this morning.Deca wrote:Hah congrats man! I can relate well to that feeling. Don't sell yourself short though, if you don't let yourself appreciate victories you'll find yourself questioning why you bother playing after a while.
Any thoughts on what you might tackle next? I have a lot of nice things to say about Raiden Fighters 2
Raiden Fighters 2 you say? I'll see if I can get it on MAME. I've never actually played a Raiden game. We have no Raiden releases in the UK at all!!
Raiden Fighters Aces was supposed to be released but I don't think it ever made it. I downloaded ShmupMAME last week though so I'll see if I can get Fighters 2. I have been mulling over what's next all day actually. I think I might play a few games fairly casually for a couple of weeks and see which one grabs me and begs for further attention. My short list of games I would like to investigate more is:
- Guwange
Ray Storm
Giga Wing
EspGaluda 2
Ginga Force
DDP Saidaioujou
DDP Resurrection (this one's a maybe cos I'm not sure I like the mechanics of it)
Any other suggestions or sage advice is most welcome as ever.
Oh and I recently received Ketsui for PS3. Don't think it'll be on my 1cc list just yet but I would like to give it a bash. A bit annoying actually because I bought myself a converter so I can use my 360 arcade stick on the PS3 and it seems to work perfectly.....for 2 or 3 minutes, after which it will decide that I am holding left for a few seconds. It does it every couple of minutes during play. Real shame.