The Idiot's Shmup Diary

[Spirit X]

Well no I don't actually think I'm an idiot but I referred to myself as such in my original thread.

I'm actually Spirit X (my xbox gamertag). A 37 year old in the south of England.

Quick synopsis: After years of loving shmups but being crap at them, I decided to have a proper go. So I came to these forums to seek advice for my first 1cc. Original thread is here, contains some good advice if you're a complete beginner. Thankfully that 1cc came quickly on Deathsmiles.

So now I've got that first 1cc under my belt and am still glowing a little from the confidence boost (I am writing this post just a few hours after my triumph), I'm thinking of taking the next step. Alongside my quest to become something resembling half decent at shmups I will periodically be using this thread to air my thoughts and no doubt ask many questions of the experts. Something of a shmup learners diary if you will. A bit conceited perhaps but hey, deal with it. I like the sound of my own typing.

On with the show then. Diary update number 1:

Having spent around an hour and a half trying to remember which email address I used to register my Japanese gamertag...and then around 20 mintues trying to remember the damn password, I eventually downloaded the Black Label mode dlc for Mushihimesama Futari. I thought 1200 points was a bit steep but I can't pretend my fingers in any way hesitated over the 'buy now' button. At least you can pay via Paypal now so I didn't have to faff around buying a Japanese points card from Play Asia.

Side note: on the Xbox Live Marketplace, the Black Label dlc is actually called 'Black Lavel'. How awesome is that. Great engrish.

So I fired it up and thought I'd just play a few games to get a feel for it. On the advice of more experienced shmuppers in the thread linked above, I'm going for Original mode as there seems to be a consensus that Futari BL Original is a good novice 1cc to go for and should be an appropriate next step after Deathsmiles. Also, the sound of 'Maniac' and 'God' modes made me wee myself a bit so I'm going to leave those alone for now.

Had a few games then.......and WOW! This game is beautiful. I immediately fell in love with the gorgeous sprites and the vivid palette. It seems pretty fast but everything moves extremely smoothly. It's been a long time since I played Futari 1.5 but I sure don't remember it looking this good.

I played as Reco/Kiniro (you play as two characters. I think Kiniro is a kind of turtle like animal that Reco rides. Correct me if I'm wrong) and, although I haven't read up on it yet, it seems that it uses the same mechanics as 1.5 except the counter only changes from green to blue every 3000 units rather than every 500. You also get a little sound to tell you when to change shot types, which is very handy.

I died on the second boss a couple of times and then cheesed my way passed him with a bomb on my third game. I have to say that after playing Deathsmiles, what I saw on the third level seemed pretty full-on. Bit scary. Once I'd played 3 or 4 games, I decided to credit feed my way to the end so I could get a look at what I'd gotten myself into. A lot scary. Probably used around 15 continues and muttered "wtf" at least 3 times during the last stage. Then i had to make a cup of tea to stop the shaking.

I am looking forward to this challenge though. I'm already a bit in love with the game which bodes well for my task.

Although this is the first entry in the diary, it will also be the last for a few days. I'm off on a long weekend break with my girlfriend on Friday and will no doubt spend most of tomorrow doing things that I'd rather be thinking that I should be doing while I'm playing games. The good news is that I'll take my iPad away with me and read up on Futari BL over the weekend.

Back on Monday, armed with knowledge. And probably sunburn.

[rjosal]

I guess that means you're not going to practice on the iOS version then...

[HydrogLox]

Having spent around an hour and a half trying to remember which email address I used to register my Japanese gamertag...and then around 20 mintues trying to remember the damn password, I eventually downloaded the Black Label mode dlc for Mushihimesama Futari. I thought 1200 points was a bit steep but I can't pretend my fingers in any way hesitated over the 'buy now' button. At least you can pay via Paypal now so I didn't have to faff around buying a Japanese points card from Play Asia.

Side note: on the Xbox Live Marketplace, the Black Label dlc is actually called 'Black Lavel'. How awesome is that. Great engrish.

There was no need to spend Japanese MS points.

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Produ ... 02435a07d7

[brook4]

Well done! I'm working to get my first 1cc's too. Futari is really beautiful to watch, I sometimes watch ultra superplays to relax.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I played as Reco/Kiniro (you play as two characters. I think Kiniro is a kind of turtle like animal that Reco rides.

'Mushihimesama' translates to Bug Princess. Unsurprisingly, she's riding a beetle.

I eventually downloaded the Black Label mode dlc for Mushihimesama Futari. I thought 1200 points was a bit steep]I eventually downloaded the Black Label mode dlc for Mushihimesama Futari. I thought 1200 points was a bit steep

Black Label's changes make it play like a totally different beast than 1.5 does, so 1200 is well worth it. A lot of people actually prefer BL to 1.5 mode.

Probably used around 15 continues and muttered "wtf" at least 3 times during the last stage.

The last stage is a lot easier when you realize a lot of the stuff can be tap dodged. It's still tricky because there's a lot of crossovers to do when popcorn appear, but you can usually get away with sitting at the bottom of the screen and making tiny tap dodges to one side of the screen when you're in trouble as most of the stuff is aimed directly at you, aside from the larger dragon enemies like the red land dragons that look turtle-ish, the large black dragons that come in horizontally before the midboss, etc. The tough part is learning to make crossovers, that is to change directions before you're corneded at the edge of the screen and make a quick weave through the bullets being fired at you so you can start tap dodging in the opposite direction.

This is a skill that comes in handy in a ton of shmups though, so it's very applicable in a variety of shmups once you're used to it.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

On the Mushihimesama X360 release, the Matsuri 1.5 normal Original Mode is a better next step than Futari Black Original. Or Espgaluda if you just learn the trick to defeating the final pattern.

[ACSeraph]

The last stage is a lot easier when you realize a lot of the stuff can be tap dodged.

This 100%. I 1cc-ed Black Label a couple months ago, and I felt like after stage 3 midboss the entire game became little more than tap-tap-tap-tap-tap from one side of the screen to the other over and over when played for survival. Minimize your movement, prioritize killing bullet canceling enemies, and make sure to get the extend in stage 5 after the midboss. You'll have enough bombs to spam the 4th and 5th boss to death plus some so it should be cake if you can resist the urge to flail around.

[Kollision]

my 2 cent$

OP
you should change the thread's title
that's being too harsh on yourself, and it just sounds dumb

[BareKnuckleRoo]

This 100%. I 1cc-ed Black Label a couple months ago, and I felt like after stage 3 midboss the entire game became little more than tap-tap-tap-tap-tap from one side of the screen to the other over and over when played for survival.

The funny part is the last half of stage 3 in Original that everyone hates is tap dodgeable too - the standing woodlice fire aimed 9 way shots and the rolling ones fire much less threatening single aimed bullets. You need to tap fairly slowly or you'll move in front of another bullet, and you have to remember when the larger beetles come up so you can get in front of them. The usually recommended method is quickly sweeping the screen by moving up and quickly moving from one side to the other as the woodlice appear, but in Futari BL with Reco you can just hold laser and make slow tap dodges, letting her crazy lock on beetles take care of everything. Dat crazy spread.

Even one or two bombs there won't seriously hurt your resources if you're just after a 1cc, assuming you can NMNB up to there.

[GohanX]

Great thread. I'm the same way, I love shooters but I suck at them, and have only 1cc'ed them when set to ridiculously low difficulty. The only shooter I've come close on is Deathsmiles, I can get to the last stage easily enough but can't quite 1cc it on default difficulty. Not a shmup, but I did eventually 1cc Metal Slug, so I think I have the skills in me if I practice.

[Shin]

Good thread OP!
I'm in the same shoes as you, I played more and more, switching from game to game, I finally got every cave game on 360, and decided to start again on all those game I gave a shot (Futari BL being my fav, dismissing the DS series because hori&loli are 2 reason I hate those 2 games, from affar, with passion xD)

So I did what you did, but with DS2X, 1CC'd it in an evening(rank2-3 no EX, might have 1LC if I wasn't stubborn about when I really should give up and use a bomb before it's too late), it's an easy game, but I was amazed at how much my basic shmup skills have improved since I bought my first Cave shmup (futari), mechanics a very simple and fun, and once you have a good basic understanding of a game mechanics, watching a good replay helps tremendously in getting safe spots, when to use what, how to milk safely etc., basically, at least for me, how to score enough to have fun, stay safe, get those extend and clear the game.
then I 1cc'd DS1 (playing as folet too), then I spent a full day on Futari BL, and on my best run came probably one life short from 1CCing the game, haven't tried since then, but I might try again in a few days

As pointed out earlier, something extremely impportant that I got actually pretty late, is that when a long chain of popcorn is flying/shooting at you, you want to SLOOOWLY TAP en the opposite direction NOT go as fast as possible on the other side of the screen, otherwise you trap yourself sooner or later, and will have to bomb or die.
I futari and some other cave game, killing a bigger enemy cancels all onscreen bullet, so this can be used for score or just to survive at the right moment, when all hope is lost an a huge, inescapable wave of bullets is right in front of you

Serraxor is probably right, and some arrange mode are actually pretty fun to play around with, but I can't help but feel the real challenge is to 1cc the main game, not the easiest arrange mode out there, might be just me though. (gotta admit, I had a lot of fun in Guwange Arrange )

also, if you don't mind french, some of my friends are making what they call 1-sissies, a few are commented in english(mostly cave stuff, Futari BL here !http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... lMaOCUG9tU ), the rest in french only, the point is to show how to easily 1CC a given game, but even without understanding french you should get it
http://shmupemall.com/?page_id=1143

After Futari, you should really give EspGaluda1 a shot, it's a quite easy and enjoyable game
Btw, are you playing with an arcade stick ?

[Skykid]

Black Label's changes make it play like a totally different beast than 1.5 does, so 1200 is well worth it. A lot of people actually prefer BL to 1.5 mode.

Yeah, because it's easier.

Seriously, although I don't agree with top players criticising lesser players for showing a lack of effort, sometimes they have a point. This doesn't apply to the OP because he's a beginner, so FBL is a good starting point (would also recommend Mushihimesama), but we've got guys who have been playing for years who still consider FBL and Deathsmiles lv.2 to be the pinnacle of their 1cc achievements. And it's not as though FBL original is being played for score.

1.5 original is much harder than FBL, but it's still not a super hard game to clear. Tougher than original Mushi and DDP, but not something that should be sidelined all the time because an easier version exists; especially when 1.5 is a lot more intense when it comes to adrenaline and speedy counter switching.

Kind of disappointing tbh.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yeah, because it's easier.

I'd actually say Futari BL is the harder clear... if you're playing for score. There's a much wider gap between a low score survival run and a run that heavily exploits the added pointblanking bonuses and the gem increase for maxing the stage counter, but in order to do well, you need to max out the stage counter at 9999 ASAP in every level to get the large gem pointblank bonus, but doing so cranks the rank up tremendously when it's at max, and the rank is far more aggressive about this than in 1.5 (massive bullet speed increase when the counter is at max). For survival play, your strong shot types means focusing on staying alive can be quite easy, even if that means you toss a bomb to drop the stage counter and thus lower the rank.

1.5's difficulty curve is much more gradual, has slower bullet speeds overall, and generally gets nastier at a slower pace. Palm Abnormal is certainly not as strong as a BL shot type, but he's quite capable of ripping through bosses quickly, and even makes short work of the Stage 3 boss's last phase that usually speeds up to the point where weaker shot types need a bomb to get through without risk. You also don't need to pointblank nearly as aggressively in 1.5 to get a good score, as long as you get close when enemies die to get the green aura collection, whereas BL encourages you to be up in the face of enemies constantly if you want to score, and that gets really risky.

As much as I like BL's scoring changes, I think I prefer 1.5. The shot types are more interesting rather than focused on raw power (Reco Abnormal is a lot of fun to play IMO, like a crazy highspeed ketsui) and boss fights feel a bit better paced.

Tougher than original Mushi and DDP

Really? I can see tougher than DDP which does give you lots of laserbombs so it's more a matter of not dying with a nice big bomb stock, but I found Mushi quite a bit tougher. Mushi's bullet speeds are more reminiscient of Futari 1.01's (not quite as crazy) and bombs in Mushi don't do much of a dent... Could just be me though...

[Zerst]

I'd actually say Futari BL is the harder clear... if you're playing for score. There's a much wider gap between a low score survival run and a run that heavily exploits the added pointblanking bonuses and the gem increase for maxing the stage counter, but in order to do well, you need to max out the stage counter at 9999 ASAP in every level to get the large gem pointblank bonus, but doing so cranks the rank up tremendously when it's at max, and the rank is far more aggressive about this than in 1.5 (massive bullet speed increase when the counter is at max). For survival play, your strong shot types means focusing on staying alive can be quite easy, even if that means you toss a bomb to drop the stage counter and thus lower the rank.

Definitely. Trying to consistently get 30-35k counter in stage 1 of black label original has basically ruined it for me.

[Bonus!]

also, if you don't mind french, some of my friends are making what they call 1-sissies, a few are commented in english(mostly cave stuff, Futari BL here !http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... lMaOCUG9tU ), the rest in french only, the point is to show how to easily 1CC a given game, but even without understanding french you should get it
http://shmupemall.com/?page_id=1143

I've watched a few of those runs, and I'm not sold on the premise. What you do is showing how to survive, but the bar for mere survival can be quite high, particularly for a beginner. I found it noteworthy that, say, in the English 1-sissy of Progear this gets indirectly acknowledged by the commentator who states that he never got to grips with that game.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well to be frank that Progear 1-Sissy commentary was not done well and I don't know why it was done by someone who finds the game so difficult and doesn't really understand it. The problem with the game and reason it wasn't a hit is a lot of people couldn't tell where the bullets were coming from or going. But a lot of other players could. Obviously they should have gotten the latter type to do the commentary. If you are this type, the first loop is definitely one of the easiest Cave clears and a million times more fun than Deathsmiles.

[Skykid]

Yeah, because it's easier.

I'd actually say Futari BL is the harder clear... if you're playing for score.

I already covered that:

And it's not as though FBL original is being played for score.

I appreciate you going in-depth with the game analysis, but you needn't do that with me (because I know it) and because in this case it's got nothing to do with the point being made: people on this forum who prefer BL largely do so because it's easier.

Very few of those voices have ever even attempted to properly play it for score outside of knowing how to gem suck. FBL original is actually borderline painful to play for score - drove me nuts trying to get up in everything's face - and for that reason I still prefer 1.5 for scoring.

Really? I can see tougher than DDP which does give you lots of laserbombs so it's more a matter of not dying with a nice big bomb stock, but I found Mushi quite a bit tougher. Mushi's bullet speeds are more reminiscient of Futari 1.01's (not quite as crazy) and bombs in Mushi don't do much of a dent... Could just be me though...

I cleared DDP in 6 credits of owning the PCB, C-Type shot. 1.5 took me many more than that.

Mushihimesama original is a vastly easier clear than 1.5, regardless of bullet speeds. The hitboxes are insanely forgiving and the score extends and stg3 1up are easy to achieve.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Well to be frank that Progear 1-Sissy commentary was not done well and I don't know why it was done by someone who finds the game so difficult and doesn't really understand it.

Agreed, I asked them (in french) why they thought using Rivet (when Nail is usually recommended for the extra dodging speed) was suggested for an easy 1CC, and why they didn't even attempt to get the max bomb bonus in Stage 2. you should at least try to get your counter up early on by getting the stage 2 and 3 max bonuses, but they use a bomb in a non-dangerous situation right before picking up the one in stage 2, that's not going to help you learn to get better at keeping your counter up! That +10000 counter helps a ton for getting scoring extends... I didn't get any response.

I worry that those videos are only going to encourage people to go for the most basic 1CCs and then think they're done with the game, as opposed to going back and trying to improve on their clears and sticking with the game...

I appreciate you going in-depth with the game analysis, but you needn't do that with me

I did it moreso for the benefit of the original poster or anyone else relatively unfamiliar with the differences between 1.5 and BL. I know you're familiar enough with it to understand that a lot of people like BL simply cause zomg reco strong.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well I wouldn't even get into nitpicking it much about raising counters because they still picked up 2 score extends I think plus the one on stage 4, though I don't think they even explained how to get the stage 4 one to release (you have to kill the top tank roller first). That part is actually super easy if you don't go for the extend.

I don't know what it is about the patterns that make it where a group of people have so much trouble. Maybe it's just the gravity effect? I would like to understand what it is because the patterns aren't any more difficult overall to me than other Cave games. You do have to actively avoid sides of the screen but that's not the same thing as not being able to tell where bullets are going.

[Spirit X]

Hello. Back from my weekend break. No play today as I'm tired from covorting in the sun on my holiday but thought I'd come and see what was going on.

I guess that means you're not going to practice on the iOS version then...

I have actually got a few of the 'Lite' versions of a few games on the iPad but can't say I'm getting on that well with them. I don't like having multiple buttons to press on the screen as I inevitably hit the wrong one a lot. Consequently DDP Maximum is currently my favourite as it's designed to be played with one hand and I like the feel of it. Also, call me stuck in the past if you like but I'm not sure I want to be encouraging a shmup migration over to smart devices. Touching the screen does not deliver the same experience by a long shot. Not saying it's good or bad, that's just personal taste, it's just totally different.

Great thread. I'm the same way, I love shooters but I suck at them, and have only 1cc'ed them when set to ridiculously low difficulty. The only shooter I've come close on is Deathsmiles, I can get to the last stage easily enough but can't quite 1cc it on default difficulty. Not a shmup, but I did eventually 1cc Metal Slug, so I think I have the skills in me if I practice.

Respect. Don't think I played the original but I've had a soft spot for Metal Slug 3 for a long time and have never really come close to a 1cc on that. A lot of patience and practice required.

...if you don't mind french, some of my friends are making what they call 1-sissies, a few are commented in english(mostly cave stuff, Futari BL here !http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... lMaOCUG9tU ), the rest in french only, the point is to show how to easily 1CC a given game, but even without understanding french you should get it
http://shmupemall.com/?page_id=1143

Btw, are you playing with an arcade stick ?

I've watched a few 1-sissy vids here and there and I do really like the fact that they provide hope to beginners and may hopefully help to draw new players into the genre. For me personally though, I don't think it's necessarily the play style that I'm about. Which in a way is probably one of my weaknesses as a player. What I mean by that is that when I play a game, I just cannot help but want to achieve a 'decent' status. For instance, surviving Ikaruga never really interested me much. I put so many hours into it that I fully believe I could've survived to the end on a credit without too much extra practice. But I wanted to be able to chain the levels. Not to superplay standards or anything, but to be able to really 'play' the game that the developer designed.

As I mention in the original thread about my Deathsmiles 1cc, this was one of the elements I struggled with. In the end, while being genuinely pleased with my accomplishment, I still feel like I'm not a decent player until I can get through without relying on bombs for the bits that kick my ass.

What I'm struggling with and finding quite ironic about my feelings on this is that I've also been a long standing fan of good beat 'em ups. And one of the golden rules of playing a beat 'em up well is that you have to actually play the game that's in your disc drive, not some imaginary game whose rules exist only in your own head. Anyone with experience of these games will have heard people yelling that certain tactics are 'cheap'. These people are 'scrubs'. They are not playing the game that is sitting in their console. They are playing according to a set of rules that exist only in their own head and they are expecting their opponent to know, and fully abide by, all of those rules. A good tournament player would never think twice about using absolutely any tactic available within the game to get an advantage over his opponent.

Does the comparison make sense? I am being a shmup scrub. I am playing Deathsmiles Spirit Label and in that game if you bomb Jitterbug then you're crap and should be ashamed of yourself.

To answer your second question, I use an arcade stick. It's an Arcade Fightstick Tournament Edition from Madcatz (the Street Fighter IV stick). It's my pride and joy and gives me constant pleasure. An actual joy-stick. But not in a rude way.

Tune into Bullet Heaven HD! Rockin' Android calls it "The best show dedicated to the shoot 'em up scene!"

I followed your sig and have been really enjoying these vids Serraxor. Good job. I've been trying to find a listing of all the episodes in order without having to wade through lots of other stuff like on the Youtube channel. Do you know if there's somewhere I can find this please?

By the way chaps, I've found the glossary, so I'm actually starting to understand some of the posts I'm reading around the forum now, which is nice. However you guys are often referring to 'STG' which is not in the glossary. Does this just mean 'Shooting Game'?

Looking forward to some play time tomorrow. Although I'm at home now, I'm still on holiday from work until next week so this next few days will be an excellent chance to put in some nice practice time. As a teacher I usually tell students to practice 'little and often' as this is both very effective and it doesn't scare them. However, in my experience a good bit of intense training is rarely a bad thing....so I'm looking forward to a fun few days.

EDIT: It's ok, I found 'STG' in the glossary by doing a Ctrl+F. It was mentioned under the listing for 'Shmup'. For anyone else unsure: yes, it means 'Shooting Game' and is a term that is apparently often used by Japanese players instead of shmup.

Oh and I've ordered myself Ketsui on the PS3 from Play Asia, which comes out this week. How exciting! Bit sad I won't be able to play it with my arcade stick but I've always wanted to play Ketsui so I can't wait. I wonder if anyone makes a 360-to-PS3 controller adapter? I will google this.

[HydrogLox]

I've been trying to find a listing of all the episodes in order without having to wade through lots of other stuff like on the Youtube channel. Do you know if there's somewhere I can find this please?

You can thank the new (unintuitive for the "Web") YouTube interface for this - it manages to hide the playlists quite well. After you arrive at the channel click on "Videos" and change "Uploads" to "Playlists".

http://www.youtube.com/user/Serraxor/vi ... rid&view=1

Currently the reviews are organized as four separate seasons.

[Spirit X]

Magic, thanks.

And I just ordered this universal controller adapter from Amazon. Reviews seem good so here's hoping it works for the arcade stick. If it does, it would also mean I can use it for Gradius V and Einhander!

[Spirit X]

Actually, I started a thread for this very purpose right here on the forum. It's updated whenever a new episode airs.

Thanks, didn't spot that on the board index. If you take requests, I'd love to see Bullet Heaven reviews of Giga Wing (an old favourite of mine) and Ketsui.

Diary update:

I've had my first couple of proper sessions on Futari BL Original over the past couple of days. I've only been playing the first two stages and so far I'm really enjoying the game.

I now have a reasonable plan of attack for the first stage and I've pretty much memorised what happens throughout the stage. Having got comfy with the overall layout, I started experimenting with the scoring system a little to see if I could get the most out of a fairly basic run of the level. Playing a pretty much set path that I put together with a combination of a few replays I downloaded and a bit of my own toning down of the trickier parts, I'm generally finishing the stage with a counter around 15000 and a score of about 45-48 million.

It certainly did get trickier when I started trying to put a half decent score together and I've most definitely discovered the benefit of tap-tap dodging, as mentioned by the experts in previous posts. It seems essential if you want to get all the popcorn enemies at point blank range. At the moment I feel a lot more comfortable and controlled when tapping to the right than the left though. Needs practice. Also I've got into the habbit of trying to milk the mid-boss for gems and keep paying the price for being too cocky with it.

A couple of things are still confusing me a little, such as why some of the bigger enemies sometimes don't spew out lots of gems when they die (such as the mid-boss terradactyl thing). It seems that sometimes if you stop firing just as they die then you don't get all the bonus gems. Also I've been trying to figure out if you need to always shoot the boss with the correct shot type or if you just need to deliver the killing blow for each phase with the correct shot type. So far I haven't really noticed any difference so I've just been shooting it with the laser and then switching to shot just before it dies if I need to.

Similarly, I've been trying to figure out the specifics of how the fountains of gems work when you find them. I'm not sure yet whether you have to just keep shooting them in one continuous stream to get the most out of them or if it's ok to shoot them a bit, go off and deal with some enemies and then come back to finish off the fountain. They certainly don't seem to give me the same amount every time, but that could just be me playing inconsistently at the moment.

I haven't really played stage 2 enough to develop a plan yet. I've just been winging it through the stage. I think I'm comfortable enough with the first stage that I'm ready to move on to stage 2 properly though.

Overall I think I'm struggling a little bit with where to focus my eyes. I don't really focus on my ship very often, unless caught in a proper barrage of bullets and while I understand from reading a few posts on the subject that this is probably a good thing, it also costs me lives more than it should because I haven't seen the bullet I've run into. Other than that the main source of my (many and varied) deaths has been running into enemies when trying to get right up close to them.

Started reading the pdf file 'The Full Extent Of The Jam' by ProMeTheus today. A very handy document that is heping me think through how to maximise my practice time and what I want to get out of it.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It certainly did get trickier when I started trying to put a half decent score together and I've most definitely discovered the benefit of tap-tap dodging, as mentioned by the experts in previous posts.

Tap dodging is indeed awesome. It's crucial for shmups that are dense, and it's why analog stick based shmups don't control so well (consistent tap dodging on an analog stick when movement is tied to how far you push the stick sucks horribly).

It seems essential if you want to get all the popcorn enemies at point blank range. At the moment I feel a lot more comfortable and controlled when tapping to the right than the left though. Needs practice. Also I've got into the habbit of trying to milk the mid-boss for gems and keep paying the price for being too cocky with it.

A couple of things are still confusing me a little, such as why some of the bigger enemies sometimes don't spew out lots of gems when they die (such as the mid-boss terradactyl thing). It seems that sometimes if you stop firing just as they die then you don't get all the bonus gems.

Whether you hold the shot button down or not as they explode affects nothing (aside from vacuuming in gems) - what size/how many gems they drop is determined by the shot type you used to kill them (when the counter is green, use shot for more/larger gems, when the counter is blue use laser). It's possible the midboss was actually escaping/running away when you see it not drop gems (it will run off if you take too long to kill it, so weaken it with the laser then use the right shot type to finish it).

Certain enemies (including midbosses and boss phases) when they die cause a bullet cancel effect: all onscreen bullets are turned into gems, so finishing off a midboss when a screen is dense is better for score than killing it when it's between shots. I wouldn't worry too much about this though, delaying your kill for more points is a risk vs reward thing and it helps to know when it'll pay off. The icicles in stage 2 are a good example - in 1.5 particularly, waiting for them to summon a ton of jellyfish before you kill them will get you a huge score compared to killing them as soon as they land onscreen.

Also I've been trying to figure out if you need to always shoot the boss with the correct shot type or if you just need to deliver the killing blow for each phase with the correct shot type.


Similarly, I've been trying to figure out the specifics of how the fountains of gems work when you find them. I'm not sure yet whether you have to just keep shooting them in one continuous stream to get the most out of them or if it's ok to shoot them a bit, go off and deal with some enemies and then come back to finish off the fountain.

In 1.5 and Black Label Original/Ultra, for the killing blow on bosses and normal enemies, all that matters is using the correct shot type (rapid shot when the counter is green, laser when the counter is blue). In Black Label, there's an additional bonus in that if you hit the enemy at close range with the correct shot type according to the counter, each hit will shed gems (large gems if the stage counter is maxed), but you will only see the gem shedding when you are very close to the enemy and only if you are using the right shot type. Try this by getting up near the top of the screen at those obelisks at the start of stage 1 - they are invulnerable as they first appear onscreen and net a lot of amber if you pointblank them. You will need to be near the top of the screen when they appear to get the full benefit, and this is tricky as it's risky there what with the smaller popcorn enemies.

Overall I think I'm struggling a little bit with where to focus my eyes. I don't really focus on my ship very often, unless caught in a proper barrage of bullets and while I understand from reading a few posts on the subject that this is probably a good thing, it also costs me lives more than it should because I haven't seen the bullet I've run into.

This will probably be helpful.

Basically, don't look directly at your ship, always look well ahead of it. Try to get used to paying attention to your own shots to get an idea of where you are onscreen (characters that have beam attacks that are centered on their hitbox like Palm or Tateha in Espgaluda make it easier to judge where you are horizontally without looking down at the ship when you're lasering).

Other than that the main source of my (many and varied) deaths has been running into enemies when trying to get right up close to them.

It's really easy to smack into enemies unintentionally if you're trying to score aggressively. If you want to seriously score in BL, be prepared to restart a lot due to silly deaths. Sometimes it's better just to play it safe, sit back and laser away if you just want to go for the clear or if you're at a spot you have trouble with. Better than die and lose a nice big counter you've built up.

[Spirit X]

Been practicing stage 2 of Futari BL Original the last couple of days. I've put a few hours into it and I'm just plain bad. I'm still only about 40% consistent at making it to the second half of the stage in one piece.

Once again I toned down a combination of a few replays I downloaded to work out my path, so I end up with a reasonable balance between score and survival appropriate to my ability. Learning 10-20 seconds at a time sure is slow going though. Especially when I seem to need a good 10 runs at each section to get comfortable with it and I have to start the stage from the beginning every time.

What I'm finding interesting about this game is that you have to be able to slightly adjust your tactics on the fly according to where your counter finished on the previous level. For instance, I've been going into training for stage 2 and setting the overall counter at 15000, which is pretty much where I usually finish the first stage. Having then spent a few hours practicing in that state however, I was completely thrown when I had a randomly good run on the first stage and finished it with about 16500 counter. It totally threw off my timing of the shots in stage 2 and, although it's only a difference in shot types, the lower movement speed you get with the laser means you can't stick to the same paths.

It's made me realise that ideally you want to start stage 2 near the start of shot phase (rather than laser). But that means going back to stage 1 and working out how to finish it with an extra 3000 gems so I start stage 2 with around 18000. I don't want to get too caught up in this minutae of scoring yet however as I'd like to focus on the overall goal of the 1cc (albeit with a score a little better than a pure survival run) and press on through the game. I would also run the risk of getting my rank up higher than I can handle later in the game if I start trying to up my early score too much so I'm loathe to do it.

I defintely prefer the shot phases to the laser phases though. It's just more fluid with shot and you don't have to worry about remembering to let go of the button to collect gems. Although the laser is supposed to be the more powerful weapon (I assume), it seems to me that I generally kill things quicker with the shot because I'm holding the button down constantly. The only time I'm glad of the laser is during the boss fights at the moment.

I don't think I could've possibly died any more than I did today. I must've run into every single bullet that exists in the stage. And I don't think I'm exaggerating. I'll be hearing Reco's screams of pain in my sleep tonight. I swear I heard her yelp when I was having coffee in town earlier.

I'm hoping that this is just a 'normal' pain barrier that has to be broken in order to improve at these games. Being crap is frustrating but if this is what I have to endure in order to learn to not be quite so crap , then so be it. The replays make me feel exeptionally inferior though. The experts just make it all look so effortless. They require me to go and have sex immediately to re-assert my masculinity. Which is actually ok by me as it happens.

Anyway, bedtime. Probably played too late into the night today which I'm sure doesn't help.

[Spirit X]

Having got to grips what's going on in Futari BL Original now, I've been back and re-read the posts in this thread and it all makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks to all those who've been offering info and advice. And thanks BareknuckleRoo for answering some of my queries in your post just above. Very useful for me.

I think I've pretty much sorted out my stage 1 and 2 tactics now. I just need to practice them for better consistency. In terms of learning though, I'm now moving on to stage 3.

I took a video of a run of the first two stages this morning and if any of you chaps have the time and inclination, I'd certainly appreciate any constructive criticism, whether specific to this game or just general points about what I can improve. I'm especially interested to know if I'm missing any obvious scoring opportunities that don't involve too much risk.

Stage 1 vid
Stage 2 vid

(Sorry for the low quality vids. I have no capture device so I just filmed my telly with my iPad).

These are 'average' runs for me. Neither especially good nor particularly bad. I made a mistake in the stage 1 boss fight and forgot to finish him with my shot (in fact I was generally a little slow with some of the shot switching throughout). Also I made a stupid mistake on the stage 2 boss and lost a life but overall the run is still a good representation of where I am right now.

I've notice over the past couple of days that I have a real tendency to get visually confused by bullet paterns. Even quite straight forward ones sometimes, such as the stage 2 mid-boss. My eyes will just have trouble making sense of what I'm seeing straight away and in the 2 or 3 seconds it takes them to figure it out, I often die.

I received my copy of DDP Saidaioujou yesterday and it was sending my eyes screwy quite a bit. I was messing around with the challenges and I started practicing the stage 3 mid-boss (the big ship with cannons) as this was one bit that I was finding particularly confusing. For about an hour I just died within 10 seconds, over and over and over again. Eventually however, I got so used to the pattern that I started to see it for what it was. Consequently, it then only took me another 2 or 3 attempts to get through the fight quite comfortably. The pattern wasn't even that difficult really, it just took a long time for my brain to recognise that and make sense of what was going on.

I wonder if this is a common issue that many people have to overcome. Perhaps it's just a part of the learning curve and the more you play shmups, the better your eyes get at picking out the salient information on the screen. Kind of like learning to read music I guess. Visually confusing until you just become accustomed to making sense of it all.

If the above paragraph is true, I wonder if watching replays, superplays and such contributes to that learning process?

[KAI]

Just keep practicing. Practice makes the master. Watching Superplay videos will make things more confusing.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've notice over the past couple of days that I have a real tendency to get visually confused by bullet paterns. Even quite straight forward ones sometimes, such as the stage 2 mid-boss.

What KAI said: practice, practice, practice.

Superplay videos will help you learn stuff like scoring optimization if you're doing well and want to know if there's any extra tricks you're missing to really bump up the score, or you might learn that there's an easy way to deal with a pattern you thought was difficult, but for the most part, practice is what counts. Even if you know a method to get through a stage segment or a boss, there's always a chance you could mess up or forget, and then you need to dodge on the fly. Memorization really helps for knowing what to expect, but there's times when reading the bullet pattern itself on the fly is more important as you'll have to deal with pseudorandom spreads and such.

[Spirit X]

I do enjoy watching the superplay vids. Not necessarily from a point of view of copying them but more in the same way that I enjoy listening to SRV play the guitar. It's just pleasurable to see someone playing with such an extreme level of competence. Having said that though, occassionally the replays showing high level play do show you some very simple little tricks that help to manage certain patterns or boost your score with minimum risk.

Had to go away on business for a couple of days this week so practice was a little more sporadic than I would've liked. Still managed to get in a couple of hours on Wednesday and an hour or so when I got back last night though.

I'm finding that stage 3 requires lots and lots of practice. I'm pretty much at the point where I can get to the mid-boss fairly consistently. The mid-boss kills me way more often than it should at present but bit by bit my eyes are getting more used to his patterns.

In the second half of the stage I know that I can bodge my way through by just tapping my way left to right and right to left but I'd like to take the time to do some deeper analysis on the section and have a good level of memorisation, which I think helps to make it more manabeable when deviations from my planned path occur.

My run is starting to lean more and more towards survival and away from score now. Not unexpected as it gets trickier. I am findiing though that there is still value in analysing some of the scoring techniques in the harder sections as many of them help me with general survival. Mainly because going for score often involves killing enemies as soon as they appear which obviously helps to keep the screen clear of bullets. This seems especially true in the latter half of stage 3 which, if not managed correctly, can become quite unmanageable quite quickly.

So I'm now facing the same trouble I had in stage 2 where I have to go through the entire first half of the stage just so I can practice the second half. It's frustrating to not be able to just jump to the bit I want to practice. It reminds me of learning a complex piece of music, during which process many students make the mistake of always going back to the beginning rather than just carrying on if they make a mistake. The result of which is that they end up knowing the first few bars very very well and the rest of the piece is a bit grey. In the game though, without being able to use the save-states available in MAME that I read about in ProMeTheus's guide, I have little choice but to carry on grinding.

Hoping to have stage 3 sorted by the end of weekend. I am now at least starting to get past the first 2 stages without mistakes fairly often. And I'm still really enjoying the game. In fact the more I play it, the more I appreciate it. I think the music in Futari is especially good for a shmup, well, not that I've played that many so far but the tracks definitely stand out as worthy of mention.

[Spirit X]

I've put in a consistent 2 hours a day this week but alas, I'm actually still practicing stage 3 and haven't started on 4 yet.

It's only really been in the last 2 days that I've started getting through the first half of stage 3 consistently enough to give me repeated practice at the second half. I'm now at the point where I've got an established pattern for everything up to about 10 seconds before the boss fight. So it's just one last hurdle to finish the stage.

There isn't really any particular enemy/ wave that's giving me grief, just my general ability to move quickly and accuately and see everything that I need to be aware of on screen.

The closest I've come to playing this seriously before was a few years ago now when I was addicted to Ikaruga. It is interesting to me that, while my memory of learning Ikaruga is mainly centered around the technical aspects of the game (i.e. my hands), I'm having a very different experience with Mushi Futari BL. My technical skill certainly does need work and is slowly improving but what I'm most aware of as I play is the feeling of my eyes and brain trying to learn how to focus on and interpret the salient information on screen.

A lot of my misses occur as a big, fast pattern approaches and I reflexively pull back on the stick to give me a second to figure out where the gaps are (what ProMeTheus called 'going with the flow' in his guide). Sometimes my eyes will kind of 'click in' just in the nick of time, allowing me to nip into the gap, other times they won't and I get obliterated. When these deaths occur I usually find myself bringing the bullets into focus while losing track of where my ship is. Conversely, if I bring my ship into focus, it often leads to a lack of awareness of where the bullets are that are heading for me until it's too late. Occassionally I achieve the zen like middle ground where I'm just aware of everything and all of a sudden the whole affair seems a lot easier, if only for a few minutes. When this zen-like state does occur, I'm usually completely unaware of my increased awareness and as soon as I do become consciously aware of it, it seems to jinx it and pull me out of the state.

Again, it reminds me of learning music and learning to achieve the perfect state of relaxed concentration that only comes with enough practice to attain a fully unconscious competence. My hope and expectation is that as I practice more and more with the game, I'll find this state coming more and more naturally to me and this will translate to a general improvement in my skill with the genre as a whole.

Still though, I must've racked up at least 20-25 hours on stage 3 by now and I'm starting to get a glimpse of the kind of dedication required to master this. It's a very solitary pass time with as much of the battle being fought in the mind as in the hands. I'm sure that to many of you, spending a couple of weeks practicing a single stage is nothing worthy of note but in the last few days I've experienced a considerable amount of frustration and mental burnout with it. I've taken to insulting Recca with extreme profanity when she dies now (usually is her fault, not mine obviously). Quite often she's just 'fucking princess wank-beetle' or 'Mushihimefuckfairy McCocksucker ', occassionally perhaps a 'toothless she-beast insect woman' and when she really betrays me, I'll resort to 'cunt-beetle', or just get creative with it. A good solid 'fucking whore' will usually suffice though. It's silly I know but it helps to remind me that, while I to tend to take having fun rather seriously, I really should take care not to take it too seriously. I wonder if this is a common coping mechanism?

Those examples are some of the tamer ones btw as I don't want to offend anyone too much.

Oh and wank is an English colloquialism for masturbating in case you don't know.

Hangin' in there. Gonna' make it.