XRGB-mini Framemeister

[DJ Mike]

Lots of PAL systems stutter when forced to 60hz because the video timings they output are that little bit off, but the Dreamcast is not affected by this problem. The PAL Megadrive however, is known to stutter when running in 60hz, but it also depends how tolerant your display is.

Well that was sort of my point, the Dreamcast is 60hz native, not modded or anything. It's a 60hz source. No way it should stutter on the XRGB-mini in 60hz mode.

Hence my saying "unless the Dreamcast has a better video chip than I thought" - I'm aware that certain systems (like the Megadrive) have problems when forced to PAL60, I wasn't sure if the Dreamcast would also be affected.

[rmwing]

Has anyone had trouble with the PAL Sega systems?

On my SMS2 the picture jumps and it'll also cut out for 4-5 seconds at times.

SMD2 is also very jumpy but also the colours are very spastic.

And my DC will only display games in Black and White.

All my other brands are picture perfect so I'm not sure what is going on.

[DJ Mike]

Whew! Close call with my Framemeister! I'd bought a replacement UK PSU for it from power-adapters.co.uk which just zapped out on me - luckily didn't take my Framemeister with it (mild panic while I fumbled for the original PSU + stepdown converter). Bit disappointing that the replacement PSU didn't last longer but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the cheapness of it.

[BuckoA51]

@rmwing - You have the Meister set to 576p output when playing PAL? I'd try different cables. I've never heard of any machines only showing up in black and white.

[lettuce]

Whew! Close call with my Framemeister! I'd bought a replacement UK PSU for it from power-adapters.co.uk which just zapped out on me - luckily didn't take my Framemeister with it (mild panic while I fumbled for the original PSU + stepdown converter). Bit disappointing that the replacement PSU didn't last longer but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the cheapness of it.

Which PSU did u get, i got this one from amazon and seems to be fine so far....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005 ... UTF8&psc=1

Infact its over spec from the original PSU that comes with the Frameesister!

EDIT: which is actually for power-adapters!!!.....maybe you just had a dud unit, how long did it last?

[DJ Mike]

Whew! Close call with my Framemeister! I'd bought a replacement UK PSU for it from power-adapters.co.uk which just zapped out on me - luckily didn't take my Framemeister with it (mild panic while I fumbled for the original PSU + stepdown converter). Bit disappointing that the replacement PSU didn't last longer but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the cheapness of it.

Which PSU did u get, i got this one from amazon and seems to be fine so far....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005 ... UTF8&psc=1

Infact its over spec from the original PSU that comes with the Frameesister!

EDIT: which is actually for power-adapters!!!.....maybe you just had a dud unit, how long did it last?

Lasted for about 2 hours of use. So I guess a dud unit. I went to Maplin and grabbed a multi-voltage adapter capable of 5V and 4A which is way more headroom, so I'll see how that goes!

[lettuce]

Whew! Close call with my Framemeister! I'd bought a replacement UK PSU for it from power-adapters.co.uk which just zapped out on me - luckily didn't take my Framemeister with it (mild panic while I fumbled for the original PSU + stepdown converter). Bit disappointing that the replacement PSU didn't last longer but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the cheapness of it.

Which PSU did u get, i got this one from amazon and seems to be fine so far....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005 ... UTF8&psc=1

Infact its over spec from the original PSU that comes with the Frameesister!

EDIT: which is actually for power-adapters!!!.....maybe you just had a dud unit, how long did it last?

Lasted for about 2 hours of use. So I guess a dud unit. I went to Maplin and grabbed a multi-voltage adapter capable of 5V and 4A which is way more headroom, so I'll see how that goes!

Yeah did look at maplin, but there prices were ridiculous

[DJ Mike]

Yeah did look at maplin, but there prices were ridiculous

The PSU I bought ended up costing £34.99, but considering its versatility and higher amp rating I guess some increase is to be expected.

[RGB32E]

Have any of you figured out how to program a universal remote to control the XRGB-mini? I'm thinking it might behave like a particular type of device by a particular brand. Aside from this, a remote that can learn commands is the alternative. My old Sony XBR remote can learn commands, but just isn't feasible to use with the mini (buttons for learnt commands are under a flap).

[BuckoA51]

I got most of the remote programmed into my Pronto. Unlike the XRGB3 the mini seems to work fine with it.

[MMJuno]

The Logitech Harmony remote I have was able to learn the commands. The only real issue is that I can't seem to turn it off with it, being that you have to hold the power button on the original remote for a few seconds.

[ruger]

I did the 2SC1815 RGB amp mod on the PCE Duo R a few years ago. Think's it time to do an upgrade. I get a picture on the XRGB Mini, but there is too much noise and the picture also jumps a little. Wired up composite video + sync strike (instead of 2SC1815 amp'ed native CSYNC), but the result did not get any better. My sync strike has external power.

There are some switches in the test loop, but so far they haven't had any significant impact on my other systems.

PCE Duo R (2SC1815 mod) --RGBS----> SCART Switch --RGBS----> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> XRGB Mini (noise, unstable)
PCE Duo R (2SC1815 mod) --RGBcvS--> SCART Switch --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> XRGB Mini (noise, unstable)

PCE Duo R (2SC1815 mod) --RGBS----> SCART Switch --RGBS----> Extron Matrix --RGBS----> XRGB Mini (noise,unstable)
PCE Duo R (2SC1815 mod) --RGBcvS--> SCART Switch --RGBcvS--> Extron Matrix -(RGBcvS)-> XRGB Mini (no picture, Extron requires pure sync on the sync BNC inputs?)

Anyone had success with the 2SC1815? RGB32E?

UPDATE:
Problems might have been with i.e. the signal wires or something else, since RGB32E has such good results with the 2SC1815 amp

[ruger]

OK, I really wanted to solve this, so I turned my house upside down and found a different amp. The one sold by otakus-store.net. Not sure what chip it uses - the text is removed from to amp chip to hide that (speculation). I used this amp to amplify the RGB lines, but left the 2SC1815 amp in there to amplify the CSYNC.

Result:

PCE Duo R (otakus RGB + 2SC1815 sync) --RGBS----> SCART Switch --RGBS----> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> XRGB Mini (Perfect!)
PCE Duo R (otakus RGB + 2SC1815 sync) --RGBcvS--> SCART Switch --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> XRGB Mini (Perfect!)

Phew!

[RGB32E]

I did the 2SC1815 RGB amp mod on the PCE Duo R a few years ago. Think's it time to do an upgrade. I get a picture on the XRGB Mini, but there is too much noise and the picture also jumps a little. Wired up composite video + sync strike (instead of 2SC1815 amp'ed native CSYNC), but the result did not get any better. My sync strike has external power.

Anyone had success with the 2SC1815? RGB32E?

IIRC the 2SC1815 amp in my TurboDuo works find with the mini and had no jumpiness or excessive noise. Lately I've been tinkering around with different designs using the THS7374. I've used the THS7374 in the SNES mini for RGBS (bypassing RGB encoder) and the TurboGrafx 16 Turbo Booster. Both worked perfectly with the XRGB-mini. Here is my latest design:

OK, I really wanted to solve this, so I turned my house upside down and found a different amp. The one sold by otakus-store.net. Not sure what chip it uses - the text is removed from to amp chip to hide that (speculation). I used this amp to amplify the RGB lines, but left the 2SC1815 amp in there to amplify the CSYNC.

The surface mount IC on that kit is likely a THS7314, NCS2553, or equivalent. The latest going design for the Hu6260 is using AC bias input operation (series 68nF cap followed by 3.6M resistor to 5VDC). On the output use a 220/330uF cap followed by a voltage divider circuit (82 or 91 ohm series resistor -> 470 ohm to ground) to get the correct output voltage. The kit you're using will output 0.8Vpp instead of 0.7Vpp (according to viletim's measurements), so the image will be too intense.

[ruger]

Thx for sharing RGB32E! I must read up on this

otakus-store.net also sells capacitors which reduces "strips on the image". Do you have any experience with this mod?

[RGB32E]

Thx for sharing RGB32E! I must read up on this

NP. There are many threads about improving RGB output from the Hu6260 elsewhere.

otakus-store.net also sells capacitors which reduces "strips on the image". Do you have any experience with this mod?

You'll have to supply a link. I don't think they would sell any sort of special capacitors you can't buy anywhere else...

There's this:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index. ... c=10801.90

Baku had a site where he described adding a extra 10uF (ceramic or film) decoupling cap. I think I tried this years ago on a standard model duo (non-r/rx) and didn't see any benefit. Swapping out the cap connected to Hu6260 pin 43 with a higher capacitance value seems worth trying.

EDIT:
http://baku.homeunix.net/RGB/PCE_DuoRX/PCE_DuoRX.html

Here we go:

[Fudoh]

While at it: anyone experiencing problems with a classic white (1987-) PCE on the Mini ?

I had massive sync problems with the early Mini-FWs. With the sync level update those were gone, but this introduced heavy noisw when using a white PCE. Using the mod with a Core Grafx - perfectly fine image. I thought about what might be causing the HF noise and ended up with the RF encoder. I thought about disabling it by removing it's power. Any ideas on that or simiar experiences ?

[RGB32E]

If its as easy to remove as the SNES, why not remove it entirely?

[Fudoh]

because it leaves a hole on the exposed side of the system ?

[ruger]

You'll have to supply a link.

Guide for installation of otaku's amp and cap kit;
http://www.otakus-store.net/en/content/6-guide-nec-rgb

Duo-R/RX version of cap mod;

[fagin]

While at it: anyone experiencing problems with a classic white (1987-) PCE on the Mini ?

I had massive sync problems with the early Mini-FWs. With the sync level update those were gone, but this introduced heavy noisw when using a white PCE. Using the mod with a Core Grafx - perfectly fine image. I thought about what might be causing the HF noise and ended up with the RF encoder. I thought about disabling it by removing it's power. Any ideas on that or simiar experiences ?

iirc mine was 100% stable on the MINI - it has the RF unit removed.

I would try it now but it's currently in storage - if (and it's a big "if" unfortunately) I'm able to, I'll pull it down over the weekend and have a look.

[RGB32E]

Looks like that store wired the cap backwards! They don't describe the value of the cap. I'm guessing it's a 330uF to 1000uF cap.

[Silanda]

Oh, in this case: I know a plethora of titles that do switch modes, some more, some less annoying.
One special case would be Vagrant Story (PSone): The intro video (240p) and the menu screen (480i) are designed to blend into each other seamlessly. As long as the Framemeister doesn't offer an override option where 240p signals are treated like 480i, this "effect" will never work.

Funny that with my modded PAL PSX, Framemeister often continues thinking it's receiving 240p after a PSX game changes mode from 240p to 480i, even though the output blanks momentarily. At least this results to proper Bob "deinterlace" without the 1-frame added latency. I can get Framemeister to treat it correctly as 480i if I change input back and forth, but I wonder why this is happening only with PSX. Perhaps I should try using csync as sync.

My modded PAL Saturn in 60Hz mode does this too. I think "modded PAL" is the operative phase. The scaling mode changes as it should at 50Hz but not at 60. My guess is that PAL modded Saturns, and all Sega hardware prior to the Dreamcast AFAIK, output an out of spec signal at 60Hz. Perhaps this throws the mini off when it decides how to handle the incoming signal and perhaps modded PAL Playstations also have the same minor timing issues.

[marqs]

My modded PAL Saturn in 60Hz mode does this too. I think "modded PAL" is the operative phase. The scaling mode changes as it should at 50Hz but not at 60. My guess is that PAL modded Saturns, and all Sega hardware prior to the Dreamcast AFAIK, output an out of spec signal at 60Hz. Perhaps this throws the mini off when it decides how to handle the incoming signal and perhaps modded PAL Playstations also have the same minor timing issues.

Yeah, I checked PSX service manual (SCPH-9000 series) and found out that it has slightly different GPU reference clock on NTSC & PAL units (53.63MHz vs 53.20MHz), which most likely causes the mismatch. The clock (along with CPU and subcarrier clocks) is generated with a combination of a crystal and a configurable clock generator IC. As the clock generator is one-time factory programmed, there's no easy way to provide 53.63MHz for the GPU to get exact NTSC output.

[marqs]

As the clock generator is one-time factory programmed, there's no easy way to provide 53.63MHz for the GPU to get exact NTSC output.

Actually, swapping the 17.37Mhz crystal to 17.51MHz should do the trick. That would also increase CPU and subcarrier frequencies by an insignificant amount (the latter doesn't even matter with RGB).

[nintenthe3rd]

I've had the Framemeister for several months, really loving the picture so much that I'll probably never go back to CRT for my old game consoles! But however, I can't seem to get this working with my hauppauge HD-PVR (its this one) and I can get a picture when its on and not receiving, but when it starts receiving a game, black screen never to bounce back. I dunno if its the HDMI->component converter I have (this one) or I don't have something set up right.

Any solutions? Or should I just toss the current set up I have right now and just get a new capture device (currently considering a Elgato game capture HD)?

[sparksterz]

I've had the Framemeister for several months, really loving the picture so much that I'll probably never go back to CRT for my old game consoles! But however, I can't seem to get this working with my hauppauge HD-PVR (its this one) and I can get a picture when its on and not receiving, but when it starts receiving a game, black screen never to bounce back. I dunno if its the HDMI->component converter I have (this one) or I don't have something set up right.

Any solutions? Or should I just toss the current set up I have right now and just get a new capture device (currently considering a Elgato game capture HD)?

I'm kinda confused as to why you're not just using the HDMI in on that recorder and instead forcing it through component.

[Fudoh]

The Hauppauge 1212 is analogue-only.

Did you disable the v-sync option ? The 1212 is extremely pick about standard refresh rates.

[nintenthe3rd]

I'm kinda confused as to why you're not just using the HDMI in on that recorder and instead forcing it through component.

The Hauppauge device I currently have is component only, so I have to use an HDMI->Component converter. Didn't exactly buy this with the future in mind, haha!

The Hauppauge 1212 is analogue-only.

Did you disable the v-sync option ? The 1212 is extremely pick about standard refresh rates.

Just disabled "SYNC_MODE" and that did the trick! Thank you!

[RowanDDR]

STILLLL no firmware fix for 1080p mode? Good lord. Its been years. There is no way I would buy this until that is fixed.