XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Elrinth]

Got my framemeister to work with Pc-Engine DUO, SNES, MegaDrive 2, Sharp Twin Famicom. I am super-happy with it!

Streaming some Secret of Mana 2, 2 player right now incase anyone is interested.

http://www.twitch.tv/elrinth

[GohanX]

My Framemeister isn't playing nice with my HDMI switcher.
This is the switcher model:
http://www.amazon.com/Switch-switch-sou ... dmi+switch
Switch works with every other device I own but once the Mini is in the mix, nothing gets through. Everything including the Mini works if no switch is involved, but my old Sony 32" LCD only has one HDMI input. It's hard to believe the switch is at fault just because it won't work with this one device. Could this be an HDCP thing? If so, does anyone know how to turn HDCP on?

Unforutnately, I couldn't find a solution. The switch recognizes that something is plugged in and autoswitches to the correct port, but nothing displays on screen. I fiddled with some of the XRGB's settings and it made no difference. I did try having the Mini plugged directly into the TV and the switch plugged into the mini's HDMI In 2, and the switch worked properly, but that is less than ideal for sources you don't want the XRGB to process. Unless someone has any more suggestions I'm probably going to try a higher quality HDMI switch from Monoprice.

[ruger]

Just to report, using an Extron RGB interface to convert from the PS2's RGsB to RGBC for the mini does not work. I tried PS2->Sync Strike->Extron RGB->Mini (RGBS). No input on the mini whatsoever. On the DVDO Edge it saw the picture as component video with a weird tint to the screen. Sync wire out of the Extron didn't appear to be sending anything, but turning sync on green off on the Extron gave no picture on the DVDO either, so it looks like the Extrons don't convert from SOG to csync sadly.

Hey mate, did you find a solution to this issue?

I am trying to do the same thing, and believe I have the same issue (I have a 160xi myself, not 203 Rxi).

It sure does (kinda). When your PS2 is set to RGB, 480p titles are output in RGsB format. Similar to Dreamcast titles in 480p RGBHV you can run this through a sync processor to get 480p RGBs, which the XRGB-Mini can understand.

I can confirm this. I simply run the PS2's RGB signal through an Extron RGB 190 and it works with all output resolutions. 240p, 480i and 480p as far as I can tell.

EDIT: It's actually a RGB 192. So it's 2 better I guess.

Konsolkongen, you had success with PS2 480p RGsB to 480p RGBs with Extron RGB 192, right?

[Konsolkongen]

Yes. I have it running right now, so I can test 480p in "VGA" for you in just a few minutes. Just to be sure that it still works

EDIT: Works perfectly fine. You have to flip the DDSP dip switch though (enabled I think), which is no problem for me, as I have this on for all my consoles. Without DDSP you'll notice some slight shaking in the picture.

[ruger]

EDIT: Works perfectly fine. You have to flip the DDSP dip switch though (enabled I think), which is no problem for me, as I have this on for all my consoles. Without DDSP you'll notice some slight shaking in the picture.

Thanks mate!

Just to make sure I understand, it works in your setup just with leaving the Extron 192 front plan DDSP DIP on/up (enables DDSP).
You did not have to toggle with DDSP switch down and up again, or anything like that?

[Konsolkongen]

Nope. It works everytime

But do you even get a picture when the PS2 is outputting 480i? Usually these Extron things only work with C.sync. I have modified my PS2 to output C.sync rather than composite video. In 480p it won't matter because the PS2 is outputting Sync on Green.

[Fudoh]

One one of the Extrons (can't remember which one) I had to use the H-Sync pin instead - although a C.Sync BNC connector was present as well.

[marqs]

Has anyone tried extraction of RGB and Hsync+Vsync directly from PS2 mobo and running those syncs through a sync combiner connected to Mini?

[ruger]

But do you even get a picture when the PS2 is outputting 480i? Usually these Extron things only work with C.sync. I have modified my PS2 to output C.sync rather than composite video.

Yes mate, I get a picture when the PS2 is outputting 480i. I too have c-sync output for 15kHz - with the help of a Sync Strike

One one of the Extrons (can't remember which one) I had to use the H-Sync pin instead - although a C.Sync BNC connector was present as well.

Thanks for the tip Fudoh!
It did not solve my problem, but the HSYNC output seems to have a stronger signal than the CSYNC output, which is nice when that is needed.

In 480p it won't matter because the PS2 is outputting Sync on Green.

You are onto something here I believe... maybe the RGB signals/lines from my PS2 are not friends with the Extron...

I just became clear to me that the Extron 160xi interface does not detect any input signal when I switch the PS2 to 480p RGsB.
The "signal" lamp on the 160xi actually goes from yellow (signal present) to amber (no signal) when I switch to progressive in game menus...

As you know the RGB lines go straight through the sync strike, and my PS2 RGB SCART cable does not have caps on the RGB lines, so I have "zero ohm" between the PS2 output and the Extron input.

It is tempting to ask you for a huge favour Konsolkongen:
Would it be quick and easy for you to check if your PS2 cable has caps on the RGB lines (i.e. with a multimeter)?

[Konsolkongen]

It is tempting to ask you for a huge favour Konsolkongen:
Would it be quick and easy for you to check if your PS2 cable has caps on the RGB lines (i.e. with a multimeter)?

I made the cable myself and there are no caps inside

I have it hooked up to my Extron RGBHV Matrix. I can use the RGB cable I made for both RGB and component from the PS2 without ever swapping cables. But I do remember that component didn't work back when I did have 220uF caps in the cable, so if you have those I would try to remove them.

EDIT: Sorry, missed the part where you specifically say that your cable doesn't have the caps Not sure why it isn't working for you :/ You are using the BNC outputs on the back of the Extron? And you have the PS2 set to RGB, right? Sorry just want to be sure

[ruger]

Thank you for the info mate! Much appreciated

You are using the BNC outputs on the back of the Extron? And you have the PS2 set to RGB, right? Sorry just want to be sure

PS2 is a modded PAL model set to RGB (59.94 Hz)
PS2 RGB cable is the infamous wolf.de "optimized" cable which uses S-video Y for sync on SCART pin 20
Sync Strike is set to CSYNC, runs on 6VDC external power, and strips the sync off Y
Extron 160xi has DDSP dip on/up, all other dips are down, internal jumpers in default position
BNC to Extron Matrix

PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron Matrix -> XRGB Mini (GOOD)
PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron Matrix -> XRGB3 D IN 2 + DVDO Edge (GOOD)
PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron Matrix -> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (GOOD)
PS2 480p -> Sync Strike -> Extron Matrix -> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (GOOD)

PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron 160xi -> Extron Matrix -> XRGB Mini (GOOD)
PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron 160xi -> Extron Matrix -> XRGB3 D IN 2 + DVDO Edge (GOOD)
PS2 480i -> Sync Strike -> Extron 160xi -> Extron Matrix -> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (looks terrible for some reason)

PS2 480p -> Sync Strike -> Extron 160xi -> ....no input signal detected on the 160xi

I have ordered an Extron 192 since that is what you are using, just to see if that makes any difference.
Just got the tracking number, so hopefully I have it in a week or two, and can report progress.

[Fudoh]

Do you have the proper adapter cables to put the Extron interface behind the Matrix ? If yes, give that a try. Or if you have component cables around, what about 31khz RGsB directly into the interface ? You don't need any cleaning or stripping prior to that.

[ruger]

I just read the manual for some other Extron RGB equipment (RGB 468xi), and it said the following about the Extron signal/power LED: "If the input signal has sync on green, the LED will not change from yellow to green"

So, my theory above on the Extron not detecting the input signal in my case can very well be wrong. I thought that since the LED turned from "green" to "amber/yellow" when I gave the Extron 31k RGsB that it was an indication that the Extron did not get sync. Apparently there is no "sync present" indicator for RGsB.

Not sure why it isn't working for you :/

Could I ask you for one more favour mate? When you switch the PS2 to 480p RGsB does the LED on your EXtron 192 go from "green" to "amber/yellow"?

Do you have the proper adapter cables to put the Extron interface behind the Matrix ? If yes, give that a try. Or if you have component cables around, what about 31khz RGsB directly into the interface ? You don't need any cleaning or stripping prior to that.

I think I have what is needed... Will do the tests and report back.

[ruger]

Did a lot of tests today.

Short version:
Based on the tests I did, the Extron 160xi does not seem to accept RGsB input.
This is probably not the correct conclusion as the manual state that it does accept RGsB input.

[ruger]

Long version (Zzzzzz):

Test 1:
PS2 -> SS -> Extron 160xi -> XRGB Mini or Lumagen VisionPro HDP

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi ---RGBS----> XRGB Mini (GOOD)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi ---RGBS----> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (PICTURE, but looks terrible)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) ---RGsB---> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (PICTURE, but looks terrible)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

Summary:
PS2 480i looks good on XRGB Mini.
PS2 480i looks terrible on the Lumagen (if fed through the Extron, looks good if fed directly from the SS)
On the Lumagen it sort of looks like a lot of the picture information is missing. Sometimes the picture gets good after a while.

PS2 480p seems to stop at Extron 160xi.


Test 2:
PS2 -> SS -> Extron Matrix -> Extron 160xi -> XRGB Mini or Lumagen VisionPro HDP

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> Extron 160xi ---RGBS----> XRGB Mini (GOOD)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron Matrix --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> Extron 160xi ---RGBS----> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (GOOD) (!)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron Matrix --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron Matrix --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron Matrix --RGBS--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) ---RGsB---> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (GOOD) (!)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron Matrix --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

Summary:
PS2 480i looks good on XRGB Mini.
PS2 480i looks good on the Lumagen (when fed through the Extron RGB with a Extron Matrix in front).
It is almost like a longer cable run before the Extron 160xi helps the signal to get to the right level, i.e. not too strong.

PS2 480p seems to stop at Extron 160xi.


Test 3:
PS2 -> Sony PS2 Linux kit VGA cable -> (Extron 160xi) -> XRGB Mini or Lumagen VisionPro HDP

The official Sony PS2 Linux kit VGA cable only carry the RGB lines and ground. No composite video with sync.

PS2 480i --RGB---> PS2 VGA cable --RGB---> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL - as expected with no sync signal)
PS2 480p --RGsB--> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL - as expected with no SOG support)

PS2 480i --RGB---> PS2 VGA cable --RGB---> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL - as expected with no sync signal)
PS2 480p --RGsB--> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (GOOD)

PS2 480p --RGsB--> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB--> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480p --RGsB--> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

Summary:
PS2 480i does not work with the official Sony PS2 Linux kit VGA cable.
PS2 480p works great with the official Sony PS2 Linux kit VGA cable, as long as the receiving equipment support RGsB.

With Extron 160xi in the chain RGsB signals does seem to stop at the Extron.


Test 4:
PS2 -> SS -> Extron 160xi (SOG output enabled) -> Extron 160xi -> XRGB Mini or Lumagen VisionPro HDP

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480i --RGBcvS--> Sync Strike --RGBS--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> Sync Strike --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

All signal seems to stop at the second Extron 160xi.
The Extron 160xi does not seem to accept RGsB input - not even the RGsB output from another Extron 160xi...

Test 5:
PS2 -> Sony PS2 Linux kit VGA cable -> Extron 160xi (SOG output enabled) -> Extron 160xi -> XRGB Mini or Lumagen VisionPro HDP

PS2 480p --RGsB----> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)
PS2 480p --RGsB----> PS2 VGA cable --RGsB--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP in RGsB mode (NO SIGNAL)

All signal seems to stop at the second Extron 160xi.
The Extron 160xi does not seem to accept RGsB input - not even the RGsB output from another Extron 160xi...

[Fudoh]

Interesting - and weird. If your system didn't work directly to the HDP, I would have said that you might have one of those stupid RGB fixes inside your PS2 which kinda kill the RGsB and component signals. Your PS2 does behave normally when set to component though, right ?

BTW: you won't use 480p from a PS2 to the Mini as long as you have the HDP around.....

[ruger]

Interesting - and weird. If your system didn't work directly to the HDP, I would have said that you might have one of those stupid RGB fixes inside your PS2 which kinda kill the RGsB and component signals. Your PS2 does behave normally when set to component though, right ?

Yeah, everything work as expected when connected directly - both RGB and component.
Connecting PS2 component --> RTC 2220 --> Extron 160xi --> XRGB Mini works too

I modded the PS2 myself a few years ago, so I know what's inside it (solder version of DMS4 Pro).
DMS4 can patch video modes and y-position, but I have all those features disabled.

I just did another test with Dreamcast:
DC --RGBHV--> Extron 160xi --RGBS--> XRGB Mini (GOOD)
DC --RGBHV--> Extron 160xi --RGBS--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (GOOD)
DC --RGBHV--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> XRGB Mini (NO SIGNAL)
DC --RGBHV--> Extron 160xi (SOG enabled) --(RGsB)--> Extron 160xi --(RGsBS)--> Lumagen VisionPro HDP (NO SIGNAL)

I just can not get the Extron 160xi to accept RGsB input....

BTW: you won't use 480p from a PS2 to the Mini as long as you have the HDP around.....

I should probably start a thread on the Lumagen videoprocessors if there isn't already one here, but yeah, for the most part I really like the HDP!
Would like to see (or do) some lag tests etc.

[brentsg]

Not that anyone cares, but ordered one last night and the waiting begins.

I had an XRGB-2 and 2+ that I used extensively. I had an XRGB-3 that I never got around to integrating, same with X-Select D4. I sold both of those new, as I just hadn't realized the extent to which I'd moved past VGA.

The new mini should get some work straight away though.

[rmwing]

Hey all, been following this discussion for a while and it's help me decide to get a Framemeister!

The only question I have is about the USB slot. I have an S-Video/Composite to mini USB cable and was wondering if I can use it or if the slot is just for hooking it up to your PC?

[BuckoA51]

what would you use that cable for?? No, won't work with a Framemeister

[rmwing]

what would you use that cable for?? No, won't work with a Framemeister

Was just a cable I found laying around, no idea where/when I got it or what for haha.

And if I could use it, it would save me from buying another switcher but no biggy.

[lunch_box]

Hello all,

I have been following this thread for a good fern months now and it appears that the mini is universally praised.

Just one question tho?

How plug and play is the mini? I understand that some tweaking will be required depending on the source, but is it a pain swapping consoles over?

I will mainly be using snes, megadrive/mega cd/32x, gamecube, pc engine and an av famicom (via composite)

Thanks in advance.

[EmperorZelos]

I have a question too, which is the best settings for the Framemeister? To reduce lag that is

[Fudoh]

but is it a pain swapping consoles over

no, you can run all the 240p sources with the same basic settings. Cube requires different scaler settings, but that only applies if you run it through RGB as well. For component you can save your own settings.

I have a question too, which is the best settings for the Framemeister? To reduce lag that is

none of the settings affect the processing time.

[EmperorZelos]

no, you can run all the 240p sources with the same basic settings. Cube requires different scaler settings, but that only applies if you run it through RGB as well. For component you can save your own settings.

Are you sure? I use it for all my consoles same setting and it works just fine

none of the settings affect the processing time.

Thats a double-edged sword

[Fudoh]

Are you sure? I use it for all my consoles same setting and it works just fine

480p requires totally different settings. 480i for the most part as well. For 480i you have to use one of the processing modes with adaptive video deinterlacing, while for 240p it's best to use picture mode (which doesn't deinterlace for 480i sources). The scaling settings usually differ as well and I guess that most users will use 720p with scanlines for 240p sources, but 1080p without scanlines for 480i sources.

[EmperorZelos]

Why would you use 720 for scanlines but not for 1080?

[MMJuno]

Why would you use 720 for scanlines but not for 1080?

Because scanlines in 1080 are jacked up.

[Fudoh]

because scanlines look like shit on 1080p output. The function's simply broken.

[EmperorZelos]

Jacked up in what sense? They look perfectly fine to me, and doesn't the 720 add extra processing in the TV adding more lag?