Einhander

[Icarus]

Well, you wanted a score update from me, so here it is ^_^

NORMAL DIFFICULTY
15,231,040 - Icarus - 5 - EndyII - FLASH - [US]



Besides the decent start where I took the first life all the way to the start of stage 4 - got 16x'es on Greif and Gustav, but missed Gecko by a split-second - the run from stage 4 onwards was littered with errors, especially losing two or three lives near the start of the stage. Lost my final two lives quickly after the battle with Ausf. A. Gestell.

Strangely enough, I find the US ver a lot easier than the JPN ver due to the fixed placements of all the Gunpods, which makes creating a weapon strategy easier. Managed to take my first FLASH all the way to stage 4, using it along the way to score a few big points too ^_^ Taking 6.6mil just off a stage 3 no-miss was also a good point, and one that can be improved upon further.

[EIHoppe]

Augh. I'll riposte once I'm having a good day. T'was playing on Hard all day today and most runs barely got beyond/didn't get beyond stage 2.

I did one run with continues and I have this to say:
"AUSF A. GESTELL IS A BIG FAT BASTARD!"

*cough*

I made it to him on my second credit, first life, and proceed to lose 4 or 5 more CREDITS until I had to give up to shower and get ready for bed...I have my first day of school tommorow. =/
(By the by, you weren't kidding about the backhand)

Any good tactics for beating the bastard without having to dodge his annoyingly random attacks for too long? Please note that they must apply to Hard so I can beat him and get the Selene.

...I gotta say this: Normal's gonna seem like pie once I'm done mucking about on "let's get our ass kicked" mode. You better watch it...I'll be back...and with a vengeance. Or something remotely similar...

One last question before I head to bed: What determines tech points? I've had seemingly good runs get nearly nil (~10) tech points, and bad ones get high marks. Is there something I'm missing here...? Especially considering your run of 15M with a 1-life to level 4, why don't you have more?

~EI

[Icarus]

Any good tactics for beating the bastard without having to dodge his annoyingly random attacks for too long? Please note that they must apply to Hard so I can beat him and get the Selene.

Pick up the GRENADE that appears in one of the boxes before it appears. Make sure you have a lot of other powerful weapons as well, but GRENADE is the most important here.

Aim for the head when it first appears so you knock it over the first time, and every subsequent time aim for whatever you can hit until you knock it over a further four times (and get the SB and the FLASH). The only tip I can really give you is watch it carefully: the backhand attack isn't the most dangerous, but the jumping attacks are, so learn how to judge which direction it'll jump in (either on the spot, over to the other side of the screen, or into the background). Other attacks are telegraphed so you can see how it'll attack when it winds up for one.

Main targets are the claws (twice), armor on the arms (once), legs (once), chest and abdomen (once), head (three times) and the missile rack on it's back.

One last question before I head to bed: What determines tech points? I've had seemingly good runs get nearly nil (~10) tech points, and bad ones get high marks. Is there something I'm missing here...? Especially considering your run of 15M with a 1-life to level 4, why don't you have more?

Tech Points are determined by HEDGEHOG usage. Since HEDGEHOG is the only weapon that cancels bullets, you are awarded by how well you both defend yourself with it and how well you attack with it. In this particular run I actually managed a very impressive ZERO Tech Points, because I didn't actually pick up a single HEDGEHOG during the run ^_^

[AOTD3025]

Any good tactics for beating the bastard without having to dodge his annoyingly random attacks for too long? Please note that they must apply to Hard so I can beat him and get the Selene.

What Icarus said. Grenades are your friend when it comes to this boss. The best thing you can do for yourself here is to keep Mr. 100-ton Gorilla off his feet by knocking over; you do this by destroying armor pieces in the locations described above. The claws and hands are the easiest when he's in the background and shooting those discs and then jumping up and coming down, trying to catch you with its hand. This is an easy attack to dodge, and assuming that you're flying just above the ground, it's not to hard to take off both the armor and the hand itself if you're using Grenades. If you're more concerned about surviving and ignoring high scores and maybe the secret as well, add Wasps in homing mode to the mix; they go for the head automatically. Use them after you've taken off the head armor.

By the way: the worst is yet to come. Towards the end of the level, you encounter what can only be described "total chaos bullet hell". Unlike other bullet hells I've seen, there's really no pattern to these, and they come from nearly every direction. It doesn't help either that there are mines scattered about between the hovering platforms on the ground. Ugh . . . even on easy, this section's tough.

Then, of course, is the crazy dog fight in space on the very last level . . . but we'll deal with that when the time comes.


-AOTD3025

[Carmen]

Ok, I've just started the game in Normal (first used Hard), and I think now my scores on both are respectable enough that I can submit them!

Normal - I just got this one today; my first eight-digit score! I also saw the fourth stage boss for the first time... scary!

11 685 530, Astraea-1 - Juno/Cannon, Stage four (all As! Except Tech points - E, and S.Bonus - C or D)

Hard

6 818 240, Astraea-1 - Juno/Cannon

[Icarus]

Thanks for the scores. ^_^
I assume they are for the US version of the game?

[Carmen]

Yes, that is correct! May I ask, how are they different? Please don't reveal anything too remarkable, like beyond the fourth stage... since I don't want any aspect of the game ruined for me!!

[EIHoppe]

Yes, that is correct! May I ask, how are they different? Please don't reveal anything too remarkable, like beyond the fourth stage... since I don't want any aspect of the game ruined for me!!

Triple Lei's FAQ that Icarus has linked sums it up quite well. I believe most, if not all of the differences aren't spoilers, so feel free to look without fear of losing the experience.

This almost makes me want to stick Einhander in my PS2 again and take it for a couple spins. Maybe I'll actually end up getting somewhere. My shiny new Armored Core is far too compelling though, maybe later. =P

By the by:

Tech Points are determined by HEDGEHOG usage. Since HEDGEHOG is the only weapon that cancels bullets, you are awarded by how well you both defend yourself with it and how well you attack with it. In this particular run I actually managed a very impressive ZERO Tech Points, because I didn't actually pick up a single HEDGEHOG during the run ^_^

Actually, that theory appears to fall through--I've had many runs in which I haven't picked up a single hedgehog and still ended up with ~40-50 tech points. A possibility might be cancelling bullets in general, i.e. letting bullets hit your gunpods. I haven't really looked into it, but it certainly appears to be the case.

Expect better scores forthcoming. I will dethrone you yet, Icarus.

~EI

[Carmen]

Cool, I'll be sure to check it out.

Hedgehog usage? That doesn't sound right... as I never pick it up, and I still score very high. Heck, the one time I picked it up and used it, I got just 5 points! The booklet says it is an evaluation of defensive tactics, so I'm with you on that its about blocking bullets in general. Would love to know how its calculated though.

And what about Highest %? My guess is that's the % of points scored under x16 multiplier. And even beyond that, what are the little numbers that sometime appear on the x16 bar? Do they mean anything?

[EIHoppe]

Highest % is simply a count of how many times you've gotten x16 (where the bar flashes red and you get ~100k points that count up, and then it resets to one). The number that appears when you do x16 is your current count of highest %.

As far as tech points, initial checks seem to point to something like 5 points for every cancelled bullet--even so, one can't be too sure. I'll look into it at some point. It'll be relatively difficult to test, though.

~EI

[Icarus]

Expect better scores forthcoming. I will dethrone you yet, Icarus.

Bring. It. On! ^_-

[AOTD3025]

Basically, the big difference between the US and Japanese versions is that you get lots more ammo for many weapons in the Japanese version. For example, End. 2 gets 50 (rather than 30) Wasps per pod, which means that the Astrea gets a whopping 75 Wasps per pod (rather than the 45 that you get in the US version). With these numbers, you could practically make the Wasp your primary weapon. Also, the order and quantity of which pods you get during a stage is different enough that the Japanese version almost becomes a different game.

Hedgehogs? Oh, they're great if you use them correctly. See, the flare stays on screen for a second or two, which means that anything hit by it takes that much more damage. I've always found it essential for getting the first secret on Stage 4 (the submarine/ Juno). I daresay that they're useful on Stage 5, too . . . though you should see for yourself.

-AOTD3025

[Carmen]

"the first secret on Stage 4 (the submarine/ Juno)"

Haha, I discovered this one a few days ago. The first few times I faced the submarine, I usually destroyed it quickly with Grenades or just outlasted it. Once, I blew it up as usual, but then this wee little ship came out? And I was like "pfft, what can this little thing do?" Then it unleashed a fiery death upon me

Still, I didn't scream nearly as loudly there as when the 4st. boss' armour came flying out of NOWHERE

Anyway, I made a slight improvement to Hard, which I might as well post since I don't know how much I'll play the game now (getting into ICO and Mario Kart 64 now). This run started out fantastically, with x16 on the 1st. miniboss, boss, and the 2st. boss. But in 3st. I did awful poorly, and in the beginning of the next stage, I... died (bloody submarine).

Hard: 7 790 490, Astraea, Dual Flash, Stage 4

[Carmen]

Ugh. I hate to do this. I just put in the game, right after posting said message just to mess around. And, lo and behold, I absolutly obliterated my Hard high score...

HARD: 10 332 070 Astraea/Flash-Flash/Stage 4

Why I wasn't playing like this two weeks ago is beyond me

[Icarus]

*updated*

Good stuf Carmen, keep it up ^_^
EIHoppe's Hard score is just within reach ^_-

Speaking of the fourth stage submarine, you can quickly destroy the main body using either GRENADE or SPREADER (SPREADER being my favourite for showing off ^_-). The bridge turret that holds the JUNO will fire in your direction - so if you're to the left of it, it'll fire the JUNO Shot left and vice versa - so lure it to fire in one direction, then go to the opposite side of it and blast it with whatever powerful Gunpod you have.

[J5983]

NORMAL DIFFICULTY
10,621,130 - J5983 - 5 - EndyII - GRENADE - US

BADCBB

I keep learning new ways to die in this game. It turns out that if you don't kill the cylindrical things in the train secret section, they can come back and ram you from the back after you time out.

[Icarus]

Thanks for the scores guys, keep it up ^_^

Yeah, I've managed to crash into the cylinder things in stage 2 before, and the weird gun-shaped things that fire air mines in stage 3, and again in stage 4, and into the floating mines in stage 5...

So many ways to die in Einhander ^_-

[J5983]

Hmm, how about a GRENADE-centric boss guide? (ie, not FLASH)

* st1 midboss: Greif
Use CANNON to damage the bottom, then keep trying to hit the bottom half with GRENADE. Not really reliable, but you can usually pull off a fake 16x at least.

* st1 boss: Drache
Weaken main body and top thing, then kill arm, switch to GRENADE quickly and blast away. A fairly consistent true 16x.

* st2 midboss: Garnele
No idea. Go for the missile thing in the back? I know you can do something to make it go 16x, but I have no idea how to do it. It just happened randomly once.

* st2 boss: Spinne
Weaken head armor and top arm, strike bottom arm, then top, then head armor, then head. Throw the light in there if you can. Pretty difficult.

* st3 midboss: Gecko
Hit the green part with something weak to make the legs spin, while blasting GRENADE on them the whole time. Simple.

* st3 boss: Gustav
Blast away with CANNON, and you should get 16x pretty easily. Then finish with weapon of choice.

* st4 midboss: Salamander
Hmm. Once I hit 16x by spamming GRENADE while it was in the water, but I couldn't kill it before it died. Head armor gives about 12x, though.

* st4 boss: Sturmvogel
Go completely nuts while it's preparing, then hit it casually until it turns its back on you. Then go crazy again. You can get a fake 16x this way, especially if you manage to hit a bunch of the mines it shoots out.

* st5 midboss: Ausf. A. Gestell
My guess is, weaken the head, then get the 16x from a claw and finish it off with WASP. Sounds hard.

* st5 boss: Ausf. D. Duerer
Pretty hard to link everything together. Lots of life.

* st6 midboss: The Capital Ship
You can get 16x from the little mines the ship fires after destroying the first rocket.

* st6 boss: Schwarzgeist
Kill the legs, then...

* final boss: Hyperion
No idea.

PS.
Normal:

23,719,740 - J5983 - 6 - EndyII - GRENADE - US

Fake 16: 1M, 4M
True 16: 1, 2, 3M, 3

AABECA

15 million by the end of 3! Wow. Then I die twice in the waterway (the first time when the submarine backed into me), and make a general mess of the second half. Died when 6 sent lasers and missiles at the same time.

[J5983]

Bump for edit above.

So what's your setup? I usually use a GRENADE/VULCAN/CANNON with the EndyII, just so I can have fun with 5-10 full minutes of V, and the ability to spam C is great in the waterway. Although there's a very unique pain when you accidentally replace 150 CANNON. My main objection to FLASH is that you don't get any of it.

Also, how do you play the Astraea without incorrectly switching weapons all the time?

[Carmen]

Wow.

Anyway, I don't really have a set up with my Astraea apart from my starting weapons. There are GPs I never touch or only get in rare circumstances (like if a particular section I can use them in is coming up or I need ammo), like the Hedgehog or Spreader. I used to use Juno (and before I found that, Vulcan) and Cannon, Juno/Juno, and Juno/Riot. Juno is great, as it seems to last as long as Vulcan (since you need to use less of it) and is super effective to boot. When I used to use Juno/Cannon, my strategy was to rely on the Cannon shells, expend them all, then use Juno and the auxillery machine gun. Riot is nice when you first find it, but you start to notice that it isn't so powerful as you progress. Still great to get the multiplier into the x16, though.

Now I mainly use Flash/Flash or Juno/Flash. Dual Flash is good, but it doesn't work so well in the beginning of 4st., which is the hardest point in the game for me (so far). Juno/Flash seems to be the most effective, at the moment. But I haven't been playing so much recently, so I haven't really been exploring any of the weapon schemes yet.

What do you mean by 'accidently switching the weapons'? Do you mean using the circle key to switch the position of the GPs, 'cos you have to do that with the Endymion as well? I've found that pretty natural, but then again, this is the only ship I've really played with in the game (you should see me with the Endymion, I have no idea what I'm doing most of the time ). Or do you mean when capturing a GP, making sure it attaches to the correct (top or bottom) arm? 'Cos that, that I definetly can understand. Now it rarely happens, but occasionally I'll run to grab a weapon to replace my Vulcan with 100 some rounds, but instead it'll replace the Flash with double capacity that I'd been saving for half a stage. Annoying, that

[J5983]

Hard:

11,356,150 - J5983 - 5 - EndyII - GRENADE - US

AADECA

Dying sucks.

[AOTD3025]

Well, I managed to get my hands on a copy of the Japanese version of Einhander, so expect to see some scores soon.

I figured I might also describe some of the differences between the US version and the Japanese version that the FAQs don't cover.

-Hedgehogs, Wasps, and (maybe) the Spreader are more common, while the Grenade pod is far more rare.

-The manipulator arm is slower. For example, if you extend the Blade (Endy 2/3) in the US version and then tap "Switch Arm" rapidly, you should be able to hit stuff both above you and below you. Trying this in the Japanese version tends to confine the Blade sweep to just one area (either above or below). Speaking of the Blade . . .

-The Blade in the Japanese version extends more slowly, and seems to be slightly shorter in length as well.

-The Spreader seems to have a fixed rate of fire in the Japanese version. In other words, it doesn't matter whether you're close or far from a target; no matter how quickly you tap the fire button, you'll get a constant rate of fire.

-Pods seem to be easier to destroy.

-You get 30/45 Cannon rounds and 50/75 Wasps per pod. This is in stark contrast to the 15/25 Cannon rounds and 30/45 Wasps that you get in the US version, and drastically changes tactics; whereas you find yourself hoarding the things from the very start in the US version, you don't have to worry so much in the Japanese version as ammo is so darned plentiful.

-AOTD3025

[BUHA]

Started playing this again

Endy III (the one that says "easy to pilot")

8,359,120 - stage 4 - no gunpod selected (default)


EDIT: sorry, I'm playing the USA version.

EDIT AGAIN: dammit. sorry, i'm also on normal difficulty.

[AOTD3025]

2,257,380 - AOTD3025 - 3 - Endymion FRS mk. II - Wasp - [JPN]

Not spectacular, I know, but then, I tend to play for survival more than anything else.

-AOTD3025

[AOTD3025]

Much better run today:

Normal Difficulty

10,046,070 - AOTD3025 - 5 - Endymion FRS mk. II - Flash - [JPN]

Wasps are your friend

[J5983]

Wasps? Why are Wasps good? Even with the extra you get.

[AOTD3025]

If you're playing for survival (and normally I am), Wasps in homing mode become very useful in that they can take out targets before they get on screen or otherwise a position to take potshots at you. They certainly prove quite helpful in the first half of L4, the water area, with the mass of enemy craft that comes at you. They also prove helpful in the first half of L7, the outer-space dogfight, in that you don't have to line up with the centerline of the enemy fighters and otherise risk being shot.

-AOTD3025

[J5983]

I can see that in 7, but in the waterway I find the penetration and speed of CANNON to be much better. They shoot from the back too, after all.

[AOTD3025]

I can see that in 7, but in the waterway I find the penetration and speed of CANNON to be much better. They shoot from the back too, after all.

Use what's best for you. For me, I find flooding the screen with Wasps usually keeps all those bullet throwers at bay and cripples the cannon carriers that are still off in the background. It's one of the reasons why, in the US version, I start saving Wasps from the very start. I don't hold back at all in this section, and I will easily go through 200+ Wasp missiles by the time I get to the first big submarine.

-AOTD3025

[Carmen]

Well I don't use the Wasps much, but they're a nice weapon to fall back on. Useful, but the high scorer type guy in me knows they don't get too far in that respect. The way I've been dealing with the first part of 4st. is to (assuming I am starting on a fresh life), rely on my Flash at first, replace it with a Cannon, and use the Juno and Cannon, with the Cannon in whatever position can give me maximum protection. If I'm short on Juno shells I'll go for a second Cannon. Assuming this works, the submarine will then kill me.

Slight update, but since I'm not playing the game for the moment (doing F-ZERO X now, which is an awesome game you should all check out), it may be the highest for a while.

11 708 590, Normal, 4st., Astraea-1, Juno/Flash (I actually hit 3m in the first stage!)

Speaking of which, does anyone keep track of the top scores for each stage? The game does save them after all.