Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu, my new crack.

[MSZ]

Also, the autobomb really does get in the way of enjoying your 1CC. "Yay, I cleared it... in what was essentially 15 lives."

Bang on, I had very few cave 1CCs and DFK is one of them, but I felt like I've accomplished nothing because too many bombs have been used.

The other cave 1CCs I had are Mushi, Mushi 1.5 and Futari BL(all original modes), those clears were way more satisfying in comparison.

[RollingSkull]

Well, you can use the bombs or lose them. 15 bombs used by you for survival is not that different than 15 autobombs.

[trap15]

Yes it is. Because using a bomb at the right time (and the right time only!) takes skill. Getting hit and throwing off a bomb automatically doesn't take any skill at all.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Well, you can use the bombs or lose them. 15 bombs used by you for survival is not that different than 15 autobombs.

The issue is more that an autobomb will save you in situations where you would have died and lost a large stock of bombs, thus making a game without autobomb more rewarding to clear. Especially when the autobomb only depletes one bomb from your stock (as opposed to draining the entire stock).

[kathy]

+1

Power mode is far more rewarding than the others for this reason

[Bananamatic]

Also, the autobomb really does get in the way of enjoying your 1CC. "Yay, I cleared it... in what was essentially 15 lives."

Bang on, I had very few cave 1CCs and DFK is one of them, but I felt like I've accomplished nothing because too many bombs have been used.

The other cave 1CCs I had are Mushi, Mushi 1.5 and Futari BL(all original modes), those clears were way more satisfying in comparison.

why aren't you guys even trying to clear omote

[Emuser]

Power mode or bust. If it weren't for power I wouldn't have kept playing this game for another good year or two afterwards.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Also, the autobomb really does get in the way of enjoying your 1CC. "Yay, I cleared it... in what was essentially 15 lives."

Bang on, I had very few cave 1CCs and DFK is one of them, but I felt like I've accomplished nothing because too many bombs have been used.

The other cave 1CCs I had are Mushi, Mushi 1.5 and Futari BL(all original modes), those clears were way more satisfying in comparison.

why aren't you guys even trying to clear omote

Because the only Cave game with acceptable 2nd loop requirements is Donpachi.

[Bananamatic]

omote is 35 bees out of 45 which is a joke, took me a few practice runs and I've never failed that requirement since
you can bomb and miss all you want and a 1 miss of the first loop is easily consistently doable. Hell, even 1 missing to 2-5 isn't that hard.

you've 1cc'd dfkbl bomb, bee storm, galuda II and ibara, you shouldn't have big problems with omote

[trap15]

DoDonPachi II: Bee Storm, my new crack.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

omote is 35 bees out of 45 which is a joke, took me a few practice runs and I've never failed that requirement since
you can bomb and miss all you want and a 1 miss of the first loop is easily consistently doable. Hell, even 1 missing to 2-5 isn't that hard.

you've 1cc'd dfkbl bomb, bee storm, galuda II and ibara, you shouldn't have big problems with omote

Oh I did not know that. I agree that is not too steep on paper. I'll definitely get to that.

I wouldn't mind compiling a list of all Cave games 2nd loop and EX Boss requirements. But in my opinion they should all be a simple 1ALL and then be presented with the option.

[kathy]

DoDonPachi II: Bee Storm, my new crack.

oh, no you didn't

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It's actually the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile. If it would have used different gfx/theme/not been compared to Cave it would be considered IGS' masterpiece and probably led to some other decent shooting games. As for how it was done I don't know who was dumber, IGS for expecting to make a Cave game or Cave for licensing out their main franchise.

[kathy]

there seems to be a hell of a lot of action surrounding BeeStorm lately

Is there any reason other than the above the beast has resurfaced?

[Bananamatic]

It's actually the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile. If it would have used different gfx/theme/not been compared to Cave it would be considered IGS' masterpiece and probably led to some other decent shooting games. As for how it was done I don't know who was dumber, IGS for expecting to make a Cave game or Cave for licensing out their main franchise.

the TLB fight is fucking hilarious
the boss has absolutely no collision detection and you can safespot/grazebomb all his attacks

[Giest118]

there seems to be a hell of a lot of action surrounding BeeStorm lately

Is there any reason other than the above the beast has resurfaced?

It being playable in MAME with very little hassle is a pretty good reason.

[kathy]

It's been in mame for a while though?

[kathy]

the TLB fight is fucking hilarious
the boss has absolutely no collision detection

haha sounds like my type of game

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I think trap has been a fan for a long time. Not sure. I cleared it recently because I wanted to beat all the DDP games and it was last on the list. It seems a lot worse than it really is. You start with this wtf stage that is beyond easy and are forced to compare it to Cave games because... It's DDP2. If you actually give it a good chance with the Energy mode/full understanding of the scratch system though, yeah it's flawed but still - there is a lot of fun to be had with clearing it. It's flawed but underrated.

Yes there are safespots and grazebombing etc. If that ruins a game for you then pass on it. But to me that's like saying you hate Akai Katana and DFK because there is bullet canceling so it's not pure dodging. Yeah there are safespots and I still had a lot of fun. I'm not saying use it for tournaments to find out who is the better dodger. Are you having fun or not, is the question. For me.

It hasn't been working in mame for that long, not working fully. Of course the sound is still not 100%.

[kathy]

I gave it a go on mame when i saw the pcb on ebay for crazy cheap a few months ago, but it looks like i might have dismissed it a little early and might have to fire it up again. fwiw I don't remember it having any major problems running Groovy mame (but that's just from memory though)

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well I did an incredibly short review on the tail end of the strat thread with a video attached. The quicker you learn energy/scratching/scratchbombing the better. But, if you have Cave games lined up you haven't cleared, you might as well stick with those and save Bee Storm for a rainy day. I'm not saying it's better than Cave.

[Skykid]

It's actually the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile.

By a mile? What are you comparing it to?

IGS are actually a pretty damn good (and extremely prolific) developer. They've made a lot of solid games over the years.

[finisherr]

Yeah, this game kinda sucked. I traded it for Raiden 4 after I cleared the first loop in about a week...and honestly, I'm no pro at cave games. Probs one of Cave's worst, next to Akai Katana.

So many other great Cave games though. It'd be nice to see an Ibara reissue on 360, and maybe a Mushi regs, region-free.

[RoninBuddha]

i honestly just dont treat DFKBL as a 'real' DDP game, its a Cave game sure, but all the shenanigans make it a difference slice of cake.

hate to admit it but all the bullet cancelling is satisfying on some level.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It's actually the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile.

By a mile? What are you comparing it to?

IGS are actually a pretty damn good (and extremely prolific) developer. They've made a lot of solid games over the years.

Well I should have given a disclaimer attached to the message mentioning that buttonmasher beatemups bore the shit out of me. I haven't had fun with them since the 90s other than a bit of nostalgia in the early mame years. Are there some IGS games in particular you think are good that I should try/retry? Their beatemups are too little too late, their fighters are no Capcom, Demon Front was a good effort but I don't feel compelled to put time into it? The PGM's success seems based around the idea that it uses carts like MVS. Why else would someone spend time producing boxes and stickers for fricking China Dragon. Let's get real.

[Skykid]

It's actually the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile.

By a mile? What are you comparing it to?

IGS are actually a pretty damn good (and extremely prolific) developer. They've made a lot of solid games over the years.

Well I should have given a disclaimer attached to the message mentioning that buttonmasher beatemups bore the shit out of me. I haven't had fun with them since the 90s other than a bit of nostalgia in the early mame years. Are there some IGS games in particular you think are good that I should try/retry? Their beatemups are too little too late, their fighters are no Capcom, Demon Front was a good effort but I don't feel compelled to put time into it? The PGM's success seems based around the idea that it uses carts like MVS. Why else would someone spend time producing boxes and stickers for fricking China Dragon. Let's get real.

The PGM had a great showing. Martial Masters is a surprisingly excellent FTG, probably better than some of Capcom's efforts, for sure. If you don't like scrolling beat-em-ups that's fair enough, but the Valor series and Oriental Legend are considered some of the best of their kind (multi-path, multi-player, D&D style action games.) Oriental Legend 2 on PGM 2 is just gorgeous through and through, worth getting the whole caboodle for (mobo etc.)

Demon Front: can't overstate how excellent it is. A real alternative to Metal Slug that improves in a number of areas over SNK's own. Secrets, set-pieces, multiple endings and tons of weapons; and it's relatively friendly in difficulty terms too. Probably a better game than Bee Storm on the whole.

Aside from that lot, you do know IGS have moved on from PGM hardware ages ago? They manufacture full scale arcade cabinets, have a flagship racing series with multiple sequels, and make everything from party games to redemption machines. And they're good games I should add, they have a great track record and are very successful in their native Taiwan and Asia. Here IGS logos are everywhere you look.

[Aleksei]

Arrange A is my favourite game now. I like it more than SDOJ.

I was thinking this way for about the first two days I played SDOJ, but then I cleared SDOJ in novice and changed my mind.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The PGM had a great showing. Martial Masters is a surprisingly excellent FTG, probably better than some of Capcom's efforts, for sure. If you don't like scrolling beat-em-ups that's fair enough, but the Valor series and Oriental Legend are considered some of the best of their kind (multi-path, multi-player, D&D style action games.) Oriental Legend 2 on PGM 2 is just gorgeous through and through, worth getting the whole caboodle for (mobo etc.)

Demon Front: can't overstate how excellent it is. A real alternative to Metal Slug that improves in a number of areas over SNK's own. Secrets, set-pieces, multiple endings and tons of weapons; and it's relatively friendly in difficulty terms too. Probably a better game than Bee Storm on the whole.

Aside from that lot, you do know IGS have moved on from PGM hardware ages ago? They manufacture full scale arcade cabinets, have a flagship racing series with multiple sequels, and make everything from party games to redemption machines. And they're good games I should add, they have a great track record and are very successful in their native Taiwan and Asia. Here IGS logos are everywhere you look.

Well I'm not trying to talk badly about them. I appreciate that they are producing arcade games when most game companies won't. I'm just defending saying it's the best thing IGS has ever made by a mile. That is of course just a personal opinion and not a reflection of their sales numbers or their success over there. People over there could just have shit tastes. I know about PGM2 and 3. I've cleared Tamashii. I've heard they are moving into making some of their games where you pay to play them for x amount of time no matter how good you do though, which is literally the worst thing you could do in an arcade game, so it's not helping your argument.

What I'm saying is I've had way more fun with Bee Storm than any other IGS game and if I had to pick only 1 to be stuck with on an island, that would be it. They entered the beatemup genre after it died and the mechanics frankly, unless you are doing something deep and fresh and fun it's not going to be interesting to me. It's repetitive and mundane - kind of like Metal Slug games. By the time you get to the end it just feels like "ok that's enough of that, time to shelve it for another year". The graphics might be 10/10 but the gameplay is not addictive to me. Coming up with some fresh and fun mechanics like Viewtiful Joe would have been one thing. What they did is make poor man's Capcom CPS2 beatemups and get decently received because there was virtually no arcade competition.

I do like what they did with Demon Front in regards to the mechanics where you can float down and the auto stuff and I would have put a few quarters in it in the arcade every once in a while and suspect others would have too, making it a success, but compared to how much I've played Bee Storm? A mile is pretty much accurate. And that's comparing it to my second favorite IGS game. I haven't given Martial Masters enough of a chance before though, I will admit that.

[casualcoder]

Why do some people not like this game?

I think the game is alright by cave standards. The most annoying thing for me is the lazy bullet canceling. It feels like a protracted break in the action and a cheap answer to poorly thought out bullet patterns. Autobomb also takes away from the sense of strategy, risk and reward.

[system11]

Why do some people not like this game?

Stupid autobomb robs even novice players of any sense of progress as they smash into the laser wheels just like everyone else does.

DFKBL is much cooler.