XRGB-mini Framemeister

[rtw]

I recently got hold of a framemeister, still waiting for a few bits and pieces to actually try it though.

What is the best way of getting Dreamcast 480P VGA output into the unit ? Or is this a lost cause with the FM and I should just buy a Gefen instead ?

[Fudoh]

Gratulations on joining the Framemeister club!

If you go back just one page, you'll see a DC connected to a Mini. It's easy by using a passive sync combiner circuit to get 31khz RGBs from the RGBHV signal.

Here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p829991 you can see a Dreamcast running on both the Mini and the Gefen. The Gefen is a little better, but it's rather close and good enough for most users.

[BuckoA51]

I should clip those screenshots and put them in the wiki. There's getting to be so much info on this thread that needs properly archiving now.

[geekmiki]

Hi,

I'm trying to get the best possible picture out of my NTSC-J Dreamcast combined with a freshly bought Framemeister.
I've read this topic a bit and if I understand right it's not as straight forward as I thought... First, not all the games are compatible with 480p (90% of the games I own are, though), then to get 480p I need to output through VGA, but VGA is not an option on the Framemeister.

In order to achieve what I want, what would the simplest setup be in order to output 480p out of the DC to the Framemeister?

I've read about so many setups including modded VGA-boxes, sync devices, converters, etc. that I'm a bit confused... So any help would be appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

[rtw]

Gratulations on joining the Framemeister club!

Thank you for the welcome Fudoh!

I went back and looked at the pretty pictures. Is there any info on the lag of the Gefen ?

The pictures I found show a DC VGA box with some surgery on it. Is there a complete schematic somewhere starting at the VGA connector itself and going to the MF ?

Do you have the schematic for the passive sync combiner ?

[BuckoA51]

In order to achieve what I want, what would the simplest setup be in order to output 480p out of the DC to the Framemeister?

Please read the last few pages. Maybe darcagn would be kind enough to make a complete guide? I'll update the wiki too.

Is there any info on the lag of the Gefen ?

I think someone tested it with the lag tester and it was 1 frame of lag.

[Fudoh]

In order to achieve what I want, what would the simplest setup be in order to output 480p out of the DC to the Framemeister?

if you can solder a passive sync combiner is the easiest. If you can't a RGB interface (Extron or Kramer) for converting RGBHV to RGBs is the easiest.

Modding on the VGA box is only neccessary if you want to run 15khz RGB and 31khz VGA through the same box with the same connector.

[rtw]

In order to achieve what I want, what would the simplest setup be in order to output 480p out of the DC to the Framemeister?

if you can solder a passive sync combiner is the easiest. If you can't a RGB interface (Extron or Kramer) for converting RGBHV to RGBs is the easiest.

I can solder However I need schematics, I had a look at the wiki but didn't find anything there.

Can you give examples/links of Extron or Kramer units ?

[Fudoh]

The schematic has bee posted a few times here in the thread.

Any extron RGB interface will convert from RGBHV to RGBs, e.g. 109, 160, 164, 190, 201, 203. A Kramer VP-100 is fine as well, but usually much more expensive than the next best extron interface...

[BuckoA51]

I believe Arcadeforge's ultimate SCART adaptor works too, does it not? That's a low-hassle solution particularly if you have SCART switching already in your setup.

[geekmiki]

I believe Arcadeforge's ultimate SCART adaptor works too, does it not? That's a low-hassle solution particularly if you have SCART switching already in your setup.

That would be a nice and easy solution...
So would DC->VGA cable->UMSA->Framemeister work? For both 15 and 31 khz?

Thanks for your help again!

[BuckoA51]

As long as you used a SCART to mini adapter and not the RGB21 to mini adapter you get in the box, then yes that would work, I'm sure someones already tried it and confirmed that it works but I can't remember who it was.

[darcagn]

In order to achieve what I want, what would the simplest setup be in order to output 480p out of the DC to the Framemeister?

Please read the last few pages. Maybe darcagn would be kind enough to make a complete guide? I'll update the wiki too.

I will be doing a guide with a detailed explanation--tomorrow or Saturday, most likely, as I'm off of work those days.

[BuckoA51]

Could you stick it on the XRGB Wiki? That would make it 20% cooler I'm sure.

[geekmiki]

I will be doing a guide with a detailed explanation--tomorrow or Saturday, most likely, as I'm off of work those days.

Thank you, it would be really appreciated...

[Blit]

Hi Fellow FrameMeister users,

Just received my FrameMeister this week

PC Engine Duo-RX via composite delivers good quality however some games which featuring large areas with one color(like dragon sabre) deliver different shadows of that color per line in the area thatshould display one color). Is this solvable with an RGB mod?

Here is an photo showing what I mean.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~blit/dragonsaber.jpg

Thanks in advance for your help

[Blit]

Hi,

I hooked up my Pal model I Sega Saturn via the RGB port of the FrameMeister found out that the scanlines did not look as nice as with the PC Engine Duo RX.
Also the picture appeared small on my Panasonic LED TV. Searching this thread I found one note that with 50Hz the scanlines do not look as nice as with 60Hz.
Then I searched the web for a 60Hz Saturn mod. I connected the to middle pins of JP4 (near the battery) and configured the FrameMeister for 720-60p output.
The result is near perfect as most FrameMeister modes deliver beautiful scanlines and the size of the picture is now a proper one. However one new problem is introduced, there are three lines which look like a heavier scanline. See the picture the following picture.



Any clue where this comes from?

Br,
Marc

[Fudoh]

When using a PAL source, you only get nice scanlines with 576p50 output from the Mini. It's a little bit softer than 720p though.

The three lines are a bug in the scanline engine. Go the settings and increase or decrease the V-SIZE option by one click. Then they're gone.

[BuckoA51]

I think you may have installed your TV upside down too.

[Thomago]

Aww ... I just noticed that the progressive output (RGB and Component) of my PS2 pretty unsharp in comparison to its the pixel perfect interlaced output. Kind of a letdown after investing about 100 € in a setup that can handle progressive RGB over to the Mini.

[Fudoh]

PS2 has the best 480p output of all systems (little noise aside). The Mini has a bug in scaling engine when fed with 480p signals. Fixable to a certain degree though by adjusting the settings. Check those GGX Dreamcast screenshots here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p829991 . You can expect the same from a PS2 with 480p.

[Blit]

When using a PAL source, you only get nice scanlines with 576p50 output from the Mini. It's a little bit softer than 720p though.

The three lines are a bug in the scanline engine. Go the settings and increase or decrease the V-SIZE option by one click. Then they're gone.

Hi Fudoh,

Thanks, that did the job. Just increasing the V_WIDTH by one step:)
When playing around with the FrameMeister I noticed something weird. The full status tells me my composite PC Engine Duo RX runs at v 60 hz, which is perfect.
However the 60 hz modded PAL Saturn shows v:74.09 hz. Is this a bug in the FrameMeister are do I own a "turbo" modded Saturn;)

Thanks again for your help. Also for making my buy the FrameMeister first place ( by sharing your experiences and knowledge here).

Br,
Blit

[Thomago]

PS2 has the best 480p output of all systems (little noise aside). The Mini has a bug in scaling engine when fed with 480p signals. Fixable to a certain degree though by adjusting the settings. Check those GGX Dreamcast screenshots here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p829991 . You can expect the same from a PS2 with 480p.

Right, I just tried my PS2 with a Panasonic TV and the progressive picture is perfectly sharp.

I tried to fix the Mini's picture, but I wasn't able to get any decent results. Man, this is lame. I hope they fix this in the future.

[BuckoA51]

However the 60 hz modded PAL Saturn shows v:74.09 hz. Is this a bug in the FrameMeister are do I own a "turbo" modded Saturn

See a few pages back, PAL modded consoles running at 60hz often cause problems.

[NWrain]

PS2 has the best 480p output of all systems (little noise aside). The Mini has a bug in scaling engine when fed with 480p signals. Fixable to a certain degree though by adjusting the settings. Check those GGX Dreamcast screenshots here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p829991 . You can expect the same from a PS2 with 480p.

Right, I just tried my PS2 with a Panasonic TV and the progressive picture is perfectly sharp.

I tried to fix the Mini's picture, but I wasn't able to get any decent results. Man, this is lame. I hope they fix this in the future.

If I deinterlace 480i to 480P things seem fine. However, if I deinterlace and then upscale I run into this problem again.


I'm also having issues with scrolling, and judder on some games with the Mini. Can someone direct me to a part of the thread that addresses this? Thank you.

[BuckoA51]

Which games and on what platform? If you have V-LOCK on then everything should be smooth, unless your display cannot handle the frame rate the mini is outputting.

[NWrain]

There were a few games, but my current problems are with the PC Engine, and Super Nintendo. With the PC Engine, I'm having issues with games like Super Raiden, and other vertical shmups. The game scrolls up, stutters, and then continues on. I am also having issues with RPGs on the Super Nintendo like Earthbound. Just moving up, down, left, right is juddery. I have tried this with V-lock on and off.

I don't have this issue with Faroudja based line doublers, and simple line doublers like the Extron Andora, and XRGB-1.

[BuckoA51]

Can you post a picture of the info screen where it shows you the vertical refresh?

[NWrain]

V-Lock set to Unlocked





V-Lock set to Locked

[BuckoA51]

Your input and output are miss-matched, hence the stuttering. What console is that? PAL modded unit? 60.09 is quite a bit out of spec.