XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

I'm using a sync combiner cable with a much more simple circuit (see a few pages back) and it works just fine. This one seems inflated.

[synth79]

OK, I got this SNES cable here today from Japan for my NTSC North American SNES (before I decided to "Go euro with cabling")

But it's not working..... Can anyone tell me why?

It IS jp21 isnt it? (god I hope so!!)

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=49


and YES I AM using the SUPPLIED Micomsoft JP21 to DIN that came with the XRGB Mini (easy mistake to make, but my Euro Scart to DIN isnt here yet!!)


I will be putting this jap cable in a box along with the jap adapter after we solve this mystery..... and in a box they will remain....

[synth79]

Here is the ebay page of the cable:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360633184498? ... 1497.l2649


Description
SNES SUPER FAMICOM"21 PIN RGB SCART CABLE"JAPAN NEW

*This is not made in Nintendo.

This is only for Japanese Super Famicon.

This is used for television with RGB MULTI (21PIN) terminal.

Condition

NEW

*No Box , *No Manual

[darcagn]

I'm using a sync combiner cable with a much more simple circuit (see a few pages back) and it works just fine. This one seems inflated.

It's really not that complex of a circuit. The schematic makes it look far worse than it really is. I don't know why it's drawn that way; I have never had any formal learning in reading circuits...

This is it drawn more simply:



Just a simple 14-pin chip with legs interconnected. Could possibly even fit in a SCART connector if you were clever enough...

[RGB32E]

It IS jp21 isnt it? (god I hope so!!)

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=49

That's SCART, not RGB21!

I'm using a sync combiner cable with a much more simple circuit (see a few pages back) and it works just fine. This one seems inflated.

Resistor & diode, or 4 resistors and transistor?

[synth79]

It IS jp21 isnt it? (god I hope so!!)

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=49

"That's SCART, not RGB21!"

Oh goodness... Will my NTSC SNES have fried the XRGB Mini? I didn't smell anything odd. Will it be ok? The SNES still gives out an S-Video signal and the XRGB Mini still manages to operate in S-Video mode again....

[synth79]

Does this mean I've put "+5 Volts" into where it was expecting "blanking" and "sync ground"?

I am guessing by looking at this:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4525 ... outze1.jpg


and this

http://forum.wda-fr.org/download/file.php?id=1739

[RGB32E]

Oh goodness... Will my NTSC SNES have fried the XRGB Mini? I didn't smell anything odd. Will it be ok? The SNES still gives out an S-Video signal and the XRGB Mini still manages to operate in S-Video mode again....

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_spec.htm

SCART pins 8 and 16 is what ruins XRGBs prior to the mini. With the included adapter these pins are not connected, so there should be no damage.

[synth79]

Oh goodness... Will my NTSC SNES have fried the XRGB Mini? I didn't smell anything odd. Will it be ok? The SNES still gives out an S-Video signal and the XRGB Mini still manages to operate in S-Video mode again....

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_spec.htm

SCART pins 8 and 16 is what ruins XRGBs prior to the mini. With the included adapter these pins are not connected, so there should be no damage.

~Relief and joy~ THANK YOU

I'm angry at the ebay seller for selling me the wrong kind of cable. From now on, I will always check the wiring now. No matter which country of origin, or what someone has said. I guess at the end of the day, that's the only way to protect it.

That cable was from Japan, from a Japanese seller with an actual Japanese first and last name. He said it was RGB 21. He was wrong. And I was wrong for trusting the ebay page.

Always check your wires before plugging in folks. That was a close one!!

Thanks again RGB32E

[pyrotek85]

I still don't know why scart and jp21 use the same connector when using the wrong one is potentially damaging to the device, that just seems like poor design. I mean it's one thing if a user forces the wrong cable in and breaks something, but an identical plug with different wiring inside?

[synth79]

I know it is ridiculous, but on the upside it is making us look at these wires and try and understand what is going on! But yes I totally agree!



...A total coincidence, I actually recieved my other SNES cable too, this one is from the UK. I have asked them and they confirmed, UK TV SCART (Euro Scart) ***not RGB21 / JP21*** But I opened it up to check it anyway, (LEARNED my mistake!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181056368181? ... 1497.l2649

Description
RGB SCART CABLE + AV OUT For JAPANESE NINTENDO CONSOLES

Compatible with NTSC JAPANESE VERSION CONSOLES:

SUPER FAMICOM / N64 / GAMECUBE

(Please note will NOT work on PAL UK CONSOLES)



***

Ok now here are pics of it and its wiring:

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=51

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=50


I am trying to become proficient at spotting what will and will not work. I am sick of not knowing this stuff. The colours of the wires seem DIFFERENT on this SCART than the SCART incorrectly sold as RGB21 I got from Japan (link to that one again below for convenience).....but it seems the wires locations are *almost* the same.

1. notice, it's got glue on it unlike the other one, no problem, just noting for easy identification. Also NO resistor there. Does this make a difference? What is the effect of having no resistor? Will this work on an NTSC SNES on a Euro TV as the seller suggests? It does have the 220 uF Caps on it as can be seen in the pic.

2. Also there are two wires (red and black) put to the same pin(on the right hand side in the photo)? Is this OK?! What are they for?


3. Could the resistor be at the other end of the cable? (SNES end)




For comparison / convenience here is the one I got from Japan, which RGB32E identified as SCART, **NOT RGB21**

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=2&o=49

This is NTSC SNES Scart, with 1 resistor and 3 x 220 uF capacitors.

[BuckoA51]

The page clearly says, in big letters, "SNES SUPER FAMICOM"21 PIN RGB SCART CABLE"JAPAN NEW", I'm not sure why you thought it was RGB21.

You can see SCART wiring diagrams here. http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... escart.htm

Note that the voltage lines that typically go to pins 8 and 16 are used for signaling (RGB up and switching) and aren't used by the Mini.

[Fudoh]

In the seller's defence, I would agree to that.

The page clearly says, in big letters, "SNES SUPER FAMICOM"21 PIN RGB SCART CABLE"JAPAN NEW", I'm not sure why you thought it was RGB21.

[RGB32E]

I know it is ridiculous, but on the upside it is making us look at these wires and try and understand what is going on! But yes I totally agree!

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU

Buy a multimeter if you don't already have one. This makes checking continuity between connectors easy.

I am trying to become proficient at spotting what will and will not work. I am sick of not knowing this stuff. The colours of the wires seem DIFFERENT on this SCART than the SCART incorrectly sold as RGB21 I got from Japan (link to that one again below for convenience).....but it seems the wires locations are *almost* the same.

1. notice, it's got glue on it unlike the other one, no problem, just noting for easy identification. Also NO resistor there. Does this make a difference? What is the effect of having no resistor? Will this work on an NTSC SNES on a Euro TV as the seller suggests? It does have the 220 uF Caps on it as can be seen in the pic.

2. Also there are two wires (red and black) put to the same pin(on the right hand side in the photo)? Is this OK?! What are they for?

3. Could the resistor be at the other end of the cable? (SNES end)

SCART means SCART?! The red wire connects ground from pin 18 to pin 4 to ensure that ground is connected to those two pins. You can check to see if there's a resistor in the SNES plug using a multimeter.

[synth79]

The page clearly says, in big letters, "SNES SUPER FAMICOM"21 PIN RGB SCART CABLE"JAPAN NEW", I'm not sure why you thought it was RGB21.

You can see SCART wiring diagrams here. http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... escart.htm

Note that the voltage lines that typically go to pins 8 and 16 are used for signaling (RGB up and switching) and aren't used by the Mini.

Did you miss where it says 21 PIN RGB? That is why I get confused by it. I mean don't you find that a bit confusing when it's being sold by someone japanese with no mention of the word "EURO"? Absolutely nowhere does he say it is for working on a European system. Nowhere, not once.

I know i'm not alone in finding this veryy very frustrating.

I realise RGB is just an output but I wouldn't put RGB 21 in a headline like that when selling a EURO cable. He should say JAPANESE SNES SCART CABLE FULLY WIRED RGB (ideally mentioning that it is not for his own countries RGB system) (he should also mention NTSC Cable for EURO SCART) if he wants to but when he says 21 pin RGB, and he doesn't say the word EURO or UK anywhere.... I'm going to start thinking he said SCART as a mistake and that he really means the one and only other standard with this connector, and the standard in his own country, RGB21.

You never know when someone is saying Scart deliberately or "accidently"

Come on, Of course you can see why I thouight it was RGB21!!! and on top of that I KNOW i'm not the only one that finds this just silly. Pure silly.

On the upside, I am going to get a multimeter.

[synth79]

It's like selling a snickers bar to someone with a nut allergy. and not mentioning the nuts. LOL.

Anyway thanks for your expert help guys but we are not all experts and the use of the word scart, to be honest? I take it with a pinch of salt because so many people use it to mean the JAP standard that it totally devalues the intended meaning of the word.

I've done it myself. In the past. Not many times thankfully, and Not anymore.

Seriously though, I will be opening up every single SCART (or indeed RGB21! as we don't know do we?!) cable that comes my way! It was like a snake in the grass yesterday. How thankful am I ...... 1. For you pointing out pins not used by the Micomsoft to DIN adapter, and 1. Micomsoft removing those pins, thus saving themselves a headache dealing with thousands of disgruntled Westerners that are stumbling through this preverbial minefield that is these bloody different standards with identical purposes and identical connectors.

Lower your shields and Open your scarts, resistance is futile Now, excuse me I have some multimeters to fry. LOL

[pyrotek85]

Yeah at the very least, you'd think the Mini would have some circuit to protect itself from damage should the wrong cable be used. I agree it feels like a trap for people to stumble into.

[synth79]

I know it is ridiculous, but on the upside it is making us look at these wires and try and understand what is going on! But yes I totally agree!

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU

Buy a multimeter if you don't already have one. This makes checking continuity between connectors easy.

I am trying to become proficient at spotting what will and will not work. I am sick of not knowing this stuff. The colours of the wires seem DIFFERENT on this SCART than the SCART incorrectly sold as RGB21 I got from Japan (link to that one again below for convenience).....but it seems the wires locations are *almost* the same.

1. notice, it's got glue on it unlike the other one, no problem, just noting for easy identification. Also NO resistor there. Does this make a difference? What is the effect of having no resistor? Will this work on an NTSC SNES on a Euro TV as the seller suggests? It does have the 220 uF Caps on it as can be seen in the pic.

2. Also there are two wires (red and black) put to the same pin(on the right hand side in the photo)? Is this OK?! What are they for?

3. Could the resistor be at the other end of the cable? (SNES end)

SCART means SCART?! The red wire connects ground from pin 18 to pin 4 to ensure that ground is connected to those two pins. You can check to see if there's a resistor in the SNES plug using a multimeter.

I am going to grab a beer and have a watch of it now, Thanks RGB And Thanks Pyro I knew I wasn't alone! We're just trying to avoid frying our expensive equipment here aren't we!!

This is the best thread I've seen "kind of on the subject of Retro gaming" and thankfully it attracts gamers and experts alike ....Helping LCD to help us ....play games. Thanks again fellas

[synth79]

...And Sincerely, Arigatō (thank you) to Micomsoft for removing those pins on the adapter!!

(yes I am still feeling the fear LOL) =)

[BuckoA51]

Seriously though, I will be opening up every single SCART (or indeed RGB21! as we don't know do we?!) cable that comes my way!

RGB21 is completely unknown outside of Japan. Unless an e-bay seller absolutely explicitly says it's RGB21, it will be RGB SCART.

There's also no need to open cables to check, just get a multi-meter.

[synth79]

Seriously though, I will be opening up every single SCART (or indeed RGB21! as we don't know do we?!) cable that comes my way!

RGB21 is completely unknown outside of Japan. Unless an e-bay seller absolutely explicitly says it's RGB21, it will be RGB SCART.

There's also no need to open cables to check, just get a multi-meter.

As true as this is, He the seller was inside Japan. I'm sorry but you can't argue how confusing it isnt. Because it just is. That's why they removed the pins on the adapter.

If it's not confusing, try buying some second hand unboxed cables on ebay and knowing what you're buying. And I mean knowing in every sense of the word. How can you visibly tell Scart from RGB21 even with official BOXED expensive cables without being able to read Japanese?

To say this isn't confusing which is basically what you guys say sometimes, is a flat out lie. Are you denying my confusion? Are you guys just saying some human beings are idiots? No, we just get confused. And plus I can't use a multimeter on ebay. (I wish!)

[Fudoh]

Actually it's extremely hard to find JP21 cables - the *original* Saturn, SFC und PS1 RGB cables are basically the only exceptions and they're very expensive. A cheap third party cable will never be JP21. The chance of running into a JP21 by accident is basically zero.

[synth79]

Actually it's extremely hard to find JP21 cables - the *original* Saturn, SFC und PS1 RGB cables are basically the only exceptions and they're very expensive. A cheap third party cable will never be JP21. The chance of running into a JP21 by accident is basically zero.

This fact is all very well once you know it. Like I do now, kinda. Until then, this is an accident waiting to happen for your average joe and you guys actually know this too. I don't know why we're arguing fellas.

But yes, the consensus to us, the small number of people here, is that Japanese cables are hard to get. Yet their games arent and their consoles aren't.

You know what guys, I wish micomsoft had just put the fucking euro connector on it, if RGB21 is so fucking rare. BAM !

[Fudoh]

Micomsoft should have offered an "EU"-option to resellers. They're shipping about a quarter of the units to sellers outside of Japan. Solaris inquired about european adapter cables early on, but Micomsoft couldn't do it - something about minimum numbers with the chinese soldering slaves....

[synth79]

I actually tried quite hard to get Jap cabling and actually failed hard.. Even japan is selling Euro cables!!!

Folks, unless you wanna get hands on with the bastard cables, go euro.

I love japan, but holy fuck!!

EU option would be ideal. I'm just glad this machine exists at all though, it is that good. I was beginning to think noone gave a shit until Micomsoft came along. Now I am enjoying my consoles like never before. Well when the (bastard) cables arrive... I couldn't afford a Sony BVM back then, who could? Well we got this now so I guess we shouldn't complain!!

I guess Micomsoft at the end of the day are taking care of the Japanese, and you know what, whatever it takes for Japan to keep the magic! I do love em. You're right though economics these days are a nightmare. (as always)

[Shining]

I hear you Synth79. The XRGB-Mini is a fantastic piece of hardware and i love it. I spend a few minutes with it every day. It is my first experience with a scaler unit and i have learned a few things since joining here in early 2012, but i'm still confused about a lot of things. I recommend everyone to thoroughly do some research before jumping the gun. In the last year this thread has exploded with new users, and even on forums like NeoGAF people are posting screenshots and talking about "the Framemeister". So it's definitely growing in popularity amongst amateurs.

I think the interest in 8bit/16bit retro systems and games also has increased significantly in the last five years or so (just look at the eBay pricing) and that might be due to the late 80's/90's kids growing up, getting a job and feeling the urge to play those childhood games again and finding out about the Mini in the process. I find the Mini itself to be very user friendly but it's the technical stuff around it (cables, wiring, adapters, sync strippers etc) that needs a bit more clarification. But from whom? Micomsoft? I really don't know. Maybe it's up to us users to find out after all.

Sorry, i'm just rambling

[BuckoA51]

Well... there is an XRGB Wiki http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB_Wiki

[synth79]

I hear you Synth79. The XRGB-Mini is a fantastic piece of hardware and i love it. I spend a few minutes with it every day. It is my first experience with a scaler unit and i have learned a few things since joining here in early 2012, but i'm still confused about a lot of things. I recommend everyone to thoroughly do some research before jumping the gun. In the last year this thread has exploded with new users, and even on forums like NeoGAF people are posting screenshots and talking about "the Framemeister". So it's definitely growing in popularity amongst amateurs.

I think the interest in 8bit/16bit retro systems and games also has increased significantly in the last five years or so (just look at the eBay pricing) and that might be due to the late 80's/90's kids growing up, getting a job and feeling the urge to play those childhood games again and finding out about the Mini in the process. I find the Mini itself to be very user friendly but it's the technical stuff around it (cables, wiring, adapters, sync strippers etc) that needs a bit more clarification. But from whom? Micomsoft? I really don't know. Maybe it's up to us users to find out after all.

Sorry, i'm just rambling

Hi, thank you, it's ok. I've rambled loads, I think I was just concerned. I'm sorry to you guys having to put up with my rambling too. I had to stick mine on again today too, to prove it's not fried! As we thought it is fine. I had Mortal Kombat 2 on the SNES goin'. Wow.... Very impressive. Wish I had had MK2 back then! But carts were too pricey back then. I had MK1 though. I spend time with my xrgb mini almost every day even just to admire/showcase the games even if I don't always play them much.

I think it would be great if Micomsoft or Solaris provided the video cabling as well. Like this:

Console: SNES (for example)

Region: NTSC

TV system: EURO SCART


"this cable is gauranteed to work with the EU adapter, with our scaler units"

That would certainly sell cables.

I agree the market for this is growing. I think even newer kids are going retro prematurely, sensing our admiration for the older systems, pre-empting the surge in prices. Yes they are going up, I got a shock with that on my recent retro binge. phew!

[synth79]

Well... there is an XRGB Wiki http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB_Wiki

Came in very handy for updating firmware and changing the language. Didn't help with cabling (quite important )

It needs a photograph of each working configuration for each console. I will be posting pics of each scart I get working with each console I get working. When I get the collection of photos finished I will give them to anyone that wants them and they will be on my photobucket page clearly labelled what they are for.

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... t=2&page=1

The pics on there at the moment, are of 2 x NTSC wired Scarts for SNES. Both as of yet untested as I don't have the EU adapter yet. I will clearly label all the pics.

[synth79]

Ok, I notice something

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=3&o=33

See the shadow around the patterns? hrmph......

the game is Ranma 1/2 Nibunnoichi - Improved Edition (Hack) and if you open in an emulator you can see there are not meant to be green "shadows" on those patterns.. Very nitpicky for S-Video though..

Also:
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/synth ... ort=3&o=34

the game is Ranma 1/2 Chougi Ranbu Hen.. the timer and numbers have a slight "shadowing" (glowing). In an emulator you can see the timer does have a 3d type effect intended, obviously, but not "glow" as is shown in my screenshot there. Again, very nitpicky. I still love my SNES, obviously. I think this is being way fussier than anyone was back then with our CRT's

It will be interesting to see RGB SCART on my beloved fine machine..