XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

That's a sophisticated mod. Might be just some impendance issue. My NES RGB (Moosmann mod) doesn't use a LM1881 and the sync is routed through the original composite circuit on the board and is output only after that. Works perfectly on the XRGB. Should be very easy to change the mod to this configuration.

[Drakon]

Odd I've built over 30 of these and everyone said it works fine with their xrgb. Guess I'll try that.

[Yamato]

Have a look at the S2440L and S2740L. They are among the fastest IPS panels around (5-6ms total lag on the 27" model) and are quite affordable. No tate though.

Hi Fudoh,

I wonder if there is a bigger 16:9 monitor you can recommend? I'd like to test one in comparison to my classic 29'' 4:3 CRT. I don't want a HDTV as it has more input lag than a monitor.

Thanks a lot!

[Fudoh]

27" is as bit as it gets. 29" LCDs are 21:9 and 30" are 16:10 and have usually heavy lag. From 32" up you're talking TVs. If you pick the right one lag isn't a problem. You won't notive the difference between 0.5 and 1 frame of lag. Philips 4007 series is supposed to have NO lag.

[Drakon]

I cracked open the scart cable, everything connects to where it's supposed to, except the ground wire only connects to the blanking signal ground pin. All other grounds (red, green, blue, audio, composite video) are left floating, would that be the problem?

[SharkSkin-Man]

I'm getting a bit bored of every CRT I have breaking, so I'm thinking of investing in one of these...a couple of things stopping me at the moment.

1. Large % of my low-res gaming is PCBs via Supergun - is the mini the best choice, or an xrgb-3? It also looks like there's about 500 settings that need adjusting for each source to get a decent image, which seems kind of annoying.

2. My current HD TV is a Panasonic TX-P42G30B. Is that gonna be a decent partner for the mini, or will I need another screen to make the best use of it?

[Fudoh]

Large % of my low-res gaming is PCBs via Supergun - is the mini the best choice, or an xrgb-3? It also looks like there's about 500 settings that need adjusting for each source to get a decent image, which seems kind of annoying.

you can easily get happy with a single setting for your 240p sources. No need to tweak each single game.

The XRGB-3 passes the source's refresh rate. That's an advantage if you got a monitor which takes all those refresh rates. The Mini will only do this to certain degree. R-Type and Raiden won't work, but then again they won't on a XRGB-3 when your LCD or plasma can't handle the 54/55Hz.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Maybe I'll just pick one up and see, I guess they're easy enough to sell on if it doesn't really work for me. Thanks.

[NWrain]

The XRGB-3 passes the source's refresh rate. That's an advantage if you got a monitor which takes all those refresh rates. The Mini will only do this to certain degree. R-Type and Raiden won't work, but then again they won't on a XRGB-3 when your LCD or plasma can't handle the 54/55Hz.

When you say that the mini only passes through the source refresh rate, are you referring to the V-lock function?

[kamiboy]

I'm getting a bit bored of every CRT I have breaking, so I'm thinking of investing in one of these...a couple of things stopping me at the moment.

Look for a new or mint PVM. It is not easy, and might be a bit expensive but remember the second hand units mostly come from studios where they have been worked to the very brink of usability. There is a reason why they are selling them off after all.

For 20" it is hard to find NIB models outside of a ceratin medical PVM which some times shows up. But for 14" you can find NIB L2's for decent prices. I got a L2 with maybe a few hundred hours on it which is rock solid and a L5 which looks quite worn and I suspect is on its way out. I paid the same for both.

Keeping an eye out right now for a mint 20" L2 or L5. I'd look out for BVM's too but those always come with tens of thousands of hours on them. I dont care how well built they are, I dont want something with so much wear.

[RGB32E]

I tried out PDO via D terminal @ 480p and got garbage image. Sync level is disabled for component, and changing vsync doesn't resolve this. I tried hyper SF2 @ 480p and it works just fine (aside from the softening filter virtually all Xbox 1 games use. Any thoughts? I haven't tried a different HW rev yet, but I believe this is on the last revision of the Xbox 1.

Thankfully the game plays on the 360 and looks better than what I'd expect from the original HW with the mini.

[Fudoh]

I only own two XBox games (Outrun2 and PDO) and both run fine on my setup. What you mean by "garbage image" ? I'm not freaked by the XBox's image quality though...

[ZellSF]

I tried out PDO via D terminal @ 480p and got garbage image. Sync level is disabled for component, and changing vsync doesn't resolve this. I tried hyper SF2 @ 480p and it works just fine (aside from the softening filter virtually all Xbox 1 games use. Any thoughts? I haven't tried a different HW rev yet, but I believe this is on the last revision of the Xbox 1.

Thankfully the game plays on the 360 and looks better than what I'd expect from the original HW with the mini.

The last revision of the XBox 1 can't play Panzer Dragoon Orta at 480p. They went with a cheaper video encoder that breaks quite a few games at 480p.

I'm assuming it doesn't work when you connect it directly to your TV at 480p either?

[Fudoh]

really ? Doesn't it even start or just produce problems later on in the game ? I have a NTSC-J (actually a HK unit) transparent green one - that should be quite late in the console's history, but I think to remember that this one also played PDO without any problems.

[PixelDharma]

I actually had to go through a stack of Xboxes at a store recently, in order to find one that would output early Sega games in 480p. As mentioned, later models will not do it at all! You get a garbled, unusable image.

The Xboxes from 2004 will not work. I think it was even broken in 2003. I settled on a 2002 model that output games like Panzer Dragoon Orta, GunValkyrie and Jet Set Radio Future in 480P.

I'd be surprised if your Green Xbox did output early Sega games in 480p, Fudoh. That was released for Halo 2 launch wasn't it? Probably too late. But maybe I'm wrong or the Japanese version is different. I promise you all colorless and transparent "Crystal" Xboxes won't do it.

But I'll tell you RGB32E, Xbox 1 in 480p with the framemeister? Definitely looks better than a 360 would output. Plus glitch free and non-emulated helps too. Find an older Xbox 1.

[Fudoh]

I promise you all colorless and transparent "Crystal" Xboxes won't do it.

I have a PAL clear crystal one (modded) as my main unit and this one perfectly plays PDO and OutRun2 in 480p. Played both dozens of times. I'll gladly recheck the green one.

[PixelDharma]

I promise you all colorless and transparent "Crystal" Xboxes won't do it.

I have a PAL clear crystal one (modded) as my main unit and this one perfectly plays PDO and OutRun2 in 480p. Played both dozens of times. I'll gladly recheck the green one.

OutRun 2 is exempt from this problem.

Perhaps different regions are a different situation. (Or perhaps your modding fixed that issue? Doubtful, but perhaps)

But I have personally tried 2 North American crystal Xboxes, as well as other black North American Xboxes made in 2004. They all failed to output Panzer, Jet Set and GunValkyrie in 480p.

I believe all the 2003 ones i tested failed too.

[darcagn]

HOLY SHIT NUGGETS BATMAN!

I just saw the price go from like.. 391 to 409 on Solaris, what the hell happened? Is the price gonna keep going up?

It was at a discounted, "pre-order" price since they were out of stock. Since they are back in stock now, they went back up to the normal price.

I was lucky enough to snag one during the discount period. I got a message saying it shipped out in the AM Friday (US Central time) right before they took down the pre-order notice. I went with the Airmail that unfortunately has no tracking, if it gets stuck in customs how would I know this?

Fudoh: I want to thank you and the others for all of your information in this thread. It has taken me several days to read the thread in its entirety, but I have just completed it and learned a lot by doing so. I am super excited to receive my XRGB-mini, because I have also purchased a PlayChoice-10 mobo with PPU, and I just desoldered and replaced my CPU and PPU with sockets (CPU as I'm going to do a CopyNES as well when they are in stock). I had never desoldered an IC in my life before and I couldn't find anything to practice on, and luckily I did it all with only one hiccup (two trace repairs on the CPU side, I purposely damaged the holes due to old solder refusing to come out after hours of going back and forth... PPU came out fine though), but the composite PPU is in the socket at the moment and playing just fine. I'm waiting on a shipment from Mouser this week with my THS amp and other components to finish the mod up. I'm sure I'll have some questions for you guys, but you guys have been an amazing help so far in these past 100+ pages.

[Konsolkongen]

Perhaps different regions are a different situation. (Or perhaps your modding fixed that issue? Doubtful, but perhaps)

But I have personally tried 2 North American crystal Xboxes, as well as other black North American Xboxes made in 2004. They all failed to output Panzer, Jet Set and GunValkyrie in 480p.

I believe all the 2003 ones i tested failed too.

Interesting. I have an EU 1.4 console and that plays everything in 480p just fine. It's been modified with a cheap Aladdin-chip and has been set to output NTSC (to enable progressive scan in the menus).

According to this site 1.5 are extremely rare, and 1.6 were the last ones made. So it seems like the problem is only with the 1.6 models?
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=367210

[RGB32E]

Here's what PDO looks like on my made in 2005 Xbox 1s when set to 480p (doesn't matter if console is set to wide screen or normal):


The middle third of the screen looks more like the bottom third when connected directly to my TV.

I dug out my original Xbox 1 (purchased new in 2002) and PDO works just find at 480p and seems to be better overall than the newer models. I guess it's time to chuck the 3 extra Xbox 1s!

[Smashbro29]

HOLY SHIT NUGGETS BATMAN!

I just saw the price go from like.. 391 to 409 on Solaris, what the hell happened? Is the price gonna keep going up?

It was at a discounted, "pre-order" price since they were out of stock. Since they are back in stock now, they went back up to the normal price.

I was lucky enough to snag one during the discount period. I got a message saying it shipped out in the AM Friday (US Central time) right before they took down the pre-order notice. I went with the Airmail that unfortunately has no tracking, if it gets stuck in customs how would I know this?

I ordered it today, hope it comes to me soon. Thanks for the info though.

As for this Xbox fiasco, is there model number I should be looking out for?

[pyrotek85]

I'd be interested in safe Xbox models too. There are a few titles I'd like to play that I don't believe are compatible with the 360.

[ZellSF]

There's no sure way to tell without opening it, you can try going by serial but lots of people say that's inaccurate:

Other ways to check what version you have

- By the serial number on the bottom of your Xbox. This method is not as accurate. If your serial number is rubbed off or has already been opened then you need to open your Xbox to find the version.

2002 - 12 - 18 :MFG. DATE

YYYY - MM - DD (Year - Month - Day)

Looks like this: 3052945 25105 :SERIAL NO.

The format for the serial number is LNNNNNN YWWFF

L = number of production line within the factory

NNNNNN = number of the Xbox within this week

Y = last digit of the production year

WW = number of the week of the production year

FF = the code of the factory (02: Mexico, 03: Hungary, 05: China, and 06: Taiwan)

If the factory code is 03: Hungary, then you have version 1.0.

If the factory code is 02: Mexico, then check the MFG. Date, November 2002 and later is version 1.1. Otherwise it is a version 1.0

If the factory code is 05: China, then you have atleast a version 1.1. (My example above is atleast a Version 1.1)

If the factory code is 06: Taiwan, then you have atleast a version 1.3.

Halo Special Edition translucent green is version 1.2

Crystal Special Edition translucent white is either version 1.5 or version 1.6.

Again, you may need to open your Xbox to know for sure what version you have as this method is more complicated and not 100% exact.

Oh fun thing to consider: you probably want to avoid 1.0 too as that has an extra small fan and should be noisier. I picked up a used Xbox randomly at Gamestop and got a good version. Crystal EU version, so no that part about all crystal Xboxes having the problem is not true.

[ZellSF]

Anybody have their XRGB-mini connected to a HDMI source and can tell me if you're allowed to control vertical position on HDMI sources?

[Elrinth]

I've successfully got my SNES rgb cable working with the framemeister. But it's not entirely hazzle-free. I have to set synclevel quite high.

The Mega Drive 2 however looks like shit still. Can't get the Mega Drive 2 working with the framemeister. Anyone know why?
If anyone has Mega Drive 2 (PAL) setup with their framemeister, can you please tell me your settings? Synclevel etc. I'm uploading a video of what it looks like to youtube as we speak, I'll update this post soon with the video. The RGB cable works flawlessly directly into my tv without any interference. But if I connect it to my framemeister the image is all crap and dark and there is interference sound.

See how megadrive looks like with framemeister
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdEOqo6hejY

[SharkSkin-Man]

Is there a recommended screen to use for easy tate with the mini?

[Fudoh]

fastest IPS panel with tateable stand included: Dell U2312
bigger, even faster, VESA mount, but no rotation ouf of the box: Dell S2740L

[SharkSkin-Man]

Thanks, I think 23" is all I can probably squeeze into my setup.

Just need to decide if I bite the bullet on this or just get another cheap PVM

[Fudoh]

The 23" one has basically the same visible 4:3 area size as the 20" PVM/BVMs.

[PixelDharma]

I picked up a used Xbox randomly at Gamestop and got a good version. Crystal EU version, so no that part about all crystal Xboxes having the problem is not true.

I'm standing by my assertion that all North American crystal Xboxes won't output the relevant Sega titles in 480p Until someone can correct me!

But who knows... Microsoft used all kinds of random parts/revisions in their Xboxes.