Progressive 480p in RGB from PlayStation 2

[Seraphic]

So a BNC to MiniDIN cable is a custom job. Is BNC to JP21 cable also a custom job?

[Fudoh]

they certainly all are.

[Seraphic]

Thought so. This is why I sold my Mini and wanted to wait for an XRGB-4. No HD15 input.

[Fudoh]

That's simply a bad reason. I don't like the Mini-Din input on the front of the Mini either, but it's not this hard to work with and cables are available. EU-Scart to Mini-Din is available and BNC to EU-Scart is available as well. It's just matter of setting it up once. After that you can connect all your stuff to the HD15 input(s) on the Extron interface.

[Seraphic]

Problem is I sure can't make a custom HD15 to JP21/MiniDin cable and I do not know anyone who can.
Which is why it really is unfortunate that the Mini has no HD15 input.

Now that I have a XSync1 and Extron, would I be able to feed 15khz and 31khz from my PS3 into a VPS-3300?
I take it I would need a BNC to BNC cable since the VPS-3330 also does not have HD15.

[Fudoh]

Problem is I sure can't make a custom HD15 to JP21/MiniDin cable and I do not know anyone who can.

easy enough to find somebody here on the board.

now that I have a XSync1 and Extron, would I be able to feed 15khz and 31khz from my PS3 into a VPS-3300?

sure thing. 31khz can be fed in RGBs, RGsB, RGHV or component. All four should work on the CII. You don't even need the Extron for RGsB. You can feed that using the standard component cable. You just need to find an input which can handle both 15khz and 31khz. You have to use the lower Gennum-only inputs for 31khz and I'm not sure in which format those can accept 15khz. And don't forget that the Gennum can't handle 240p.

I take it I would need a BNC to BNC cable since the VPS-3330 also does not have HD15.

you're a HD15 lover, aren't you ? For Extron to CII you can use BNC to BNC, yes. Using BNC/RCA plugs on both ends and just a standard component cable in between (configure the input for RGsB) should be easier though.

[Seraphic]

I meant from PS2 not PS3.

Isn't RGsB the sync on green output that PlayStation 2 would normally output in 31khz mode?

So couldn't you just go?

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> HD15 to BNC > VPS-3300

I like HD15 because it seems having in this case would negate having to use all these converters and cable chains.

On a side note. I am really shocked that the JP21 cable is able to pass RGB 480p.
Always thought/heard it was too much bandwidth or something. But it's really great that it's possible.

[NWrain]

Wouldn't it be easy to get RGB from the PS2, run it through a RGB-Component Transcoder that handles RGsB, and then plug that into the scaler of your choice?

Just tried it with good results.

[Fudoh]

I meant from PS2 not PS3.

I actually read PS2

Isn't RGsB the sync on green output that PlayStation 2 would normally output in 31khz mode?

yes

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> HD15 to BNC > VPS-3300

the CII probably doesn't accept 15khz RGB through a RGBHV connection - but give it a try!

On a side note. I am really shocked that the JP21 cable is able to pass RGB 480p.

I recommend to use the JP21 cable for 480p many years ago on the XRGB-3 already. Far less noise than using the component cable.

[Fudoh]

Wouldn't it be easy to get RGB from the PS2, run it through a RGB-Component Transcoder that handles RGsB, and then plug that into the scaler of your choice?

problem on both sides: you need a transcoder which can work with RGBs (with composite video as sync) and RGsB without manual switching and you possibly lose color resolution depending on how good the Scaler's color upsampling is. I think the whole point was to keep the RGB format from start to finish instead of "going component".

[NWrain]

I thought it was because people were trying to avoid any possible noise with the PS2 component output? Although I don't have any issues with PS2 component I understand why people want to keep everything RGB.

[Seraphic]

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> HD15 to BNC > VPS-3300

the CII probably doesn't accept 15khz RGB through a RGBHV connection - but give it a try!.

I can't give a try, lol. I don't own a CII.

[Fudoh]

Noise in the PS2's component signal is always a question of filtering in the processor or TV set. The Mini and the CII are terribly sensitive to this noise. Other processors have no problems whatsoever with it...

[Fudoh]

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> HD15 to BNC > VPS-3300
I can't give a try, lol. I don't own a CII.

?? you sold your 3300 by now ??

[Seraphic]

Not sold, returned. The VPS-3300 I purchased on ebay was defective and I returned to seller for full refund (with paypal's help).

[BubbaMc]

What percentage of PS2 games are 480p capable?

I thought it was an insignificant amount.

[panzeroceania]

not so insignificant if a game you love is among the supported games.

[ZellSF]

What percentage of PS2 games are 480p capable?

I thought it was an insignificant amount.

Not if you use homebrew to force titles into 480p then there's suddenly tons of titles that are 480p.

And if you're obsessive enough about image quality to try to get RGB 480p output from a PS2 you definitely want to look into how to do that.

[antron]

^ especially for a 3D rendered 480i shmup like Gradius V

[Seraphic]

Fudoh,

Do you know if the Micomsoft SELECTY21 supports RGsB 480p input and output using JP21?
And if the Micomsoft XSELECT-D4 also supports RGsB 480p input over JP21 and will pass it to its HD15 on output?

[Fudoh]

The switch certainly does. No reason why it shouldn't. I can try it on the XSelect tonight. I'm pretty sure it works as well - I think to remember that you can manually switch to RGsB in the config menu.

[Fudoh]

XSelect: the front JP21 input only support YUV and RGBs. The back HD15 input supports YUV, RGBHV, RGsB and RGBs. So if you would want to build a setup involving a Mini, a XSelect and PS2 you would be better off using the back RGB input.

[Seraphic]

Thanks for checking, but that is unfortunate about the front JP21 input.

But if I could get a custom cable for JP21 to HD15 I could use the back port for both 15 and 31 khz sources.
Or on the other hand, could just use current XSync-1 and Extron chain and feed them into the back port using HD15.
However, I do think the XSync-1 might cause odd resolutions though... was trying to remove it from my chain.

Anyway, what format of RGB does a 1Chip-01 Super NES console output when using the offiicial SNES JP21 cable (RGBHV, RGsB and RGBs)?

[Fudoh]

Anyway, what format of RGB does a 1Chip-01 Super NES console output

RGBs of course. 1CHIP-01 and -02 do output pure composite sync, -03 has composite video only. The official JP21 cable uses composite video only anyway though.

Everything officially suppored by Scart or JP21 is RGBs. Officially (for consumers) the PS2 support 480p for component only. Sony just forgot to disable 480p for the RGB output in favor of their early linux kit.

[Seraphic]

What is the difference between pure composite sync and composite video for the 01/02 and 03 (better/worse)?
So even though 01 outputs sync, you are saying since the cable outputs w/o sync, it acts like an 03 output?

And since you bring up the PS2, when using the official Sony RGB cable with a PS2 and playing PS1 games in RGB mode:
In terms of picture quality, is there any difference between using a PS1 vs a PS2 (just wondering)?

[Fudoh]

What is the difference between pure composite sync and composite video for the 01/02 and 03 (better/worse)?

all the same.

So even though 01 outputs sync, you are saying since the cable outputs w/o sync, it acts like an 03 output?

yes, but the -03 got better quality video (for other reasons).

And since you bring up the PS2, when using the official Sony RGB cable with a PS2 and playing PS1 games in RGB mode:
In terms of picture quality, is there any difference between using a PS1 vs a PS2 (just wondering)?

no.

[Seraphic]

What reasons allow the 03 to have better picture quality then the 01 and 02 and how much better?

Based on all this information it sounds like I can make a few changes to my analog chain and remove the SELECTY21:

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> Extron > HD15 -> XSELECT-D4
(could remove xsync/extron with JP21 to HD15 cable... if only I could make one.)

GameCube -> D-Terminal -> XSELECT-D4
(performing RGBHV/HD15 mod on DTerminal cable adds no real improvement in picture quality, correct?)

PSP -> D-Terminal -> XSELECT-D4
(nice and easy)

SNES-> JP21 -> XSELECT-D4
(nice and easy as well)

[Fudoh]

What reasons allow the 03 to have better picture quality then the 01 and 02 and how much better?

why don't you read up in the SNES thread ? the 1CHIP units have sharper output than the earlier units, but they suffer from banding (a brighter column in the middle of the screen). Early SFC units don't have this and the 1CHIP-03 does neither.

PS2 -> JP21 -> XSync-1 -> Extron > XSELECT-D4
(could remove xsync/extron with JP21 to HD15 cable... if only I could make one.)

what do you need the Extron for in this chain ? Does the XSync pass RGsB in 480p mode through both outputs ??

GameCube -> D-Terminal -> XSELECT-D4
(performing RGBHV/HD15 mod on DTerminal cable adds no real improvement in picture quality, correct?)

maybe a little, but probably not enough to warrant the cable mod.

[Seraphic]

they suffer from banding (a brighter column in the middle of the screen). Early SFC units don't have this and the 1CHIP-03 does neither.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the banding different from console to console (some worse/better then others)?

what do you need the Extron for in this chain ? Does the XSync pass RGsB in 480p mode through both outputs ??

I am really not sure what the XSync outputs when the source is RGsB 480p. The Extron was to turn it from RGsB to RGBHV.

maybe a little, but probably not enough to warrant the cable mod.

Plus the XSelect only has one HD15 input, so I would need a HD15 switch then.

[Fudoh]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the banding different from console to console (some worse/better then others)?

absolutely, but it can nevertheless drive you crazy. If you have the choice pick a SFC unit without any banding.

I am really not sure what the XSync outputs when the source is RGsB 480p. The Extron was to turn it from RGsB to RGBHV.

I know, but the XSelect does this already.