XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

If you find any systems (or cables) not working over RGB, try adjusting the SYNC LEVEL some points up or down. Since the function was added I yet have to encouter a non-working RGB source.

which value are you guys using in Master mode scanlines for 240p material? in 720p output to a 1080p LCD.

first of all: don't use Meister mode. Use picture (for 240p) or Natural (for 480i) instead and manually add scanlines (with the C button).

[Seraphic]

I apologize for being off-topic, but has there been any updates as to if/when Micomsoft will put out an XRGB-4?

[Joelepain]

Hi every one,

I re-did some quick comparisons between the gamecube rgb vs component and I have some questions.

First I'll say that every settings (color/britghness/contrast/etc) were the same and on the default values. The only thing that differs between the two is the "black" option. I let it at 0 with component. With RGB if I let it at 0, the image look washed out (like a 0-255 / 16-235 disconcordance), so I must set the "black" option on 8 so the black level look the same on both input.

My first remark concern the RGB/Auto output option. If you set it to auto, the rgb input will output rgb over hdmi, and the component input will output YCrCb over hdmi. But I noticed that the YCrCb path seems to be bad quality, even in the digital domain. I said that because if you look closely, even the xrgb menu seems to have some color bleeding when hdmi outputs YCrCb. So does that come from the xrgb or my monitor don't handle YCrCb well ? And if it's because of the xrgb, do you think it's a bug or it's "normal" (because it output some kind of chroma subsampling crap, even if the marvell processor and hdmi support 4:4:4 output)

Secondly, I noticed that the component image have more vivid colors, and a warmer tint than the rgb one. Neither of them seems bad compair to the other on this point, I think it's more a matter of taste and habit. But is this difference coming from the output of the gamecube, or the input of the xrgb ? Have you noticed this on other systems?

Finally I think Thomago was right about the flickering thing in the Resident Evil monitor test. Last time I was in standard mode. This time I tested all the mode and in natural mode the flickering/dithering is really apparent with the component input, especially in the blue color shades. With the RGB input there's nothing. But I can't tell if it's because of the gamecube component output quality or the xrgb input quality.

[Thomago]

My first remark concern the RGB/Auto output option. If you set it to auto, the rgb input will output rgb over hdmi, and the component input will output YCrCb over hdmi. But I noticed that the YCrCb path seems to be bad quality, even in the digital domain.

Oh man, do you know you said something incredibly important there!
If I use "RGB" instead of "Auto", the annoying PS2 color banding I was complaining about all the time is gone.
You just don't see it right away - you need to switch to RGB (or another signal source i presume) and D-Terminal to see the effect.

RGB is still better because of the noise issues, but hey - it's something

[marqs]

First I'll say that every settings (color/britghness/contrast/etc) were the same and on the default values. The only thing that differs between the two is the "black" option. I let it at 0 with component. With RGB if I let it at 0, the image look washed out (like a 0-255 / 16-235 disconcordance), so I must set the "black" option on 8 so the black level look the same on both input.

It doesn't stop there. I've noticed that the levels differ between different RGB input devices. It seems like Mini is outputting limited-range RGB with PSX (and apparently with GC too), and full-range with all other consoles I've tested. Easy to fix if you can toggle the setting in your display, otherwise quite annoying.

[Smashbro29]

I am having a hell of a time trying to integrate the older systems into the "no cable swapping setup" mainly due to the extron thingy not playing nice with the older consoles. Any ideas?

[NWrain]

Can I ask people to try scaling 240P to 720P? Does that mode work fine for you guys?

[Fudoh]

It doesn't stop there. I've noticed that the levels differ between different RGB input devices.

the color range conversion is all over the place. PS2 via component for example: if you switch between 240p, 480i and 480p inside a game, the color range will shift and you'll have to adjust the brightness offsets. It's on the bug list.

If I use "RGB" instead of "Auto", the annoying PS2 color banding I was complaining about all the time is gone.

Since day one I have a slight chroma delay (pictures in the review) when using YCbCr output from the Mini, so I recommended to go RGB-only more than a year ago But nice to have this confirmed to affect other things as well.

I am having a hell of a time trying to integrate the older systems into the "no cable swapping setup" mainly due to the extron thingy not playing nice with the older consoles. Any ideas?

If you want to run them through an Extron sync converter, you need a Sync Strike ahead of them. Of you stick your VGA switch and put them directly onto the switch - parallel to the Extron you'll use for your other systems.

Can I ask people to try scaling 240P to 720P? Does that mode work fine for you guys?

it's the only mode I use. Works wonderfully.

[Smashbro29]

If you want to run them through an Extron sync converter, you need a Sync Strike ahead of them. Of you stick your VGA switch and put them directly onto the switch - parallel to the Extron you'll use for your other systems.

Is there any way to use one sync strike for both of them? Maybe put the PS2's SCART cable in the switch with the older consoles?

Or do I get another sync strike?

[Fudoh]

Yes...

old systems INCL. PS2 > Scart switch > Sync Strike > Extron ?

while DC gets routed directly into the Extron ? Both the Scart switch and the Sync Strike won't mind the 31khz RGsB signal from the PS2, so it might work. I think nobody can guarantee you 100% compatibility of all your old systems with the Extron though, even if you run them through the Sync Strike.

[Thomago]

Since day one I have a slight chroma delay (pictures in the review) when using YCbCr output from the Mini, so I recommended to go RGB-only more than a year ago

Hehe I never noticed any chroma delay (thought it was gone thanks to the firmware updates which came out until I bought the Mini), so I paid no attention to this setting. Of course I played with it, but since it doesn't show any effect until you switch the signal source (which I didn't do), I regarded it as useless.

Another thing: One of the first things I noticed about the Mini's component input is a slight green tint on things that actually should be yellow (the big letters in the PS2's memory card menu, Link's hair in Wind Waker). The RGB color settings aren't available, but setting HUE to 44 instead of 45 does the trick. Unfortunately after changing the signal source or switching the Mini off and on again HUE goes totally apesit (see for yourself). Setting Hue to something other than 44 and then setting it back to 44 solves this, but well ... it's obviously a bug.

Maybe something for your list, Fudoh.

[Smashbro29]

Yes...

old systems INCL. PS2 > Scart switch > Sync Strike > Extron ?

while DC gets routed directly into the Extron ? Both the Scart switch and the Sync Strike won't mind the 31khz RGsB signal from the PS2, so it might work. I think nobody can guarantee you 100% compatibility of all your old systems with the Extron though, even if you run them through the Sync Strike.

Well what exactly is the issue? Has anyone ever tried an Extron with the older consoles?

[Fudoh]

I did, with some, but not all of them. The Extron units support 15khz, but I'm pretty sure they were meant for 31khz+ sources in the first place and nobody at Extron ever tested anything with 15khz except for a video generator.

[Smashbro29]

I did, with some, but not all of them. The Extron units support 15khz, but I'm pretty sure they were meant for 31khz+ sources in the first place and nobody at Extron ever tested anything with 15khz except for a video generator.

Well what did you try? I'm all about consoles, it's not like I'll have arcade boards or anything.

[Fudoh]

PC Engine and Mega Drive did not work on my setup. But that was using internal raw sync of the particular system.

[Smashbro29]

PC Engine and Mega Drive did not work on my setup. But that was using internal raw sync of the particular system.

I've got a Genesis model 2 with a 32X (cause it's called Genesis dammit!) SNES, N64 and Saturn I plan on adding basically whatever I can get my hands on.

I've got them hooked in using SCART cables from retro_console_accessories the Genesis one has got a boosted signal I remember telling retro_console_accessories that my cable wasn't working and they replaced it with one that did work, something about boosting a signal because the 32X outputs weaker video.

[kamiboy]

I apologize for being off-topic, but has there been any updates as to if/when Micomsoft will put out an XRGB-4?

Dont hold your breath. Back when Micomsoft announced the Framemeister it took over a year before it was available for sale. They have not announced any such hardware since so you are not going to see anything for sale this year, let alone next.

[Overkill]

No need for an Xrgb 4 for now, im really happy with my new mini Framemeister.

What would you guys choose for PS1 games?
An PS1 with RGB scart to Mini
An PS2 with component to Mini
An PS3 with HDMI out with upscale On
An PS3 with HDMI out with upscale OFF

[kamiboy]

PS1 RGB via official JP21 cable.

[Overkill]

It's what im using right now, and its just fantastic, i never seen my PS1 games so great on a 40" screen

[Elrinth]

PC Engine and Mega Drive did not work on my setup. But that was using internal raw sync of the particular system.

I also had problem with Mega Drive. But my Pc Engine is RBG modded so that's maybe why it worked good.
But European Mega Drive 2 with CD attachment maybe need additional gear?
Will a sync strike help? Or do I have to invest in something else?
The problem I have is that it was greyscale and very weird image.

[Fudoh]

please note that I was NOT talking about problems with the Framemeister, but with problems running the MD's RGB signal through an Extron sync processor.

MD was always fine on the Mini and PCE is fine as well, since they added the sync level adjustment.

[khann]

Hello gentlemen, I'm new here and I've got a question about my freshly arrived xrgb-mini...

I tried it with every consoles I have, and noticed no real problems, just PAL NES who has no image but, i know why... this xrgb is totally perfect but, i've got a question, something weird, really... my panasonic 50g30, it tells you what is the actual resolution and frequency and... when i play my super famicom NTSC (so, 60Hz) it tells me 1080p - 50Hz ... why ?! shouldn't it be 60Hz ?

did I missed an option in my xrgb ?

[NWrain]

What output resolution do you have the Xrgb set at?

[Fudoh]

If you have the current FW on it, you can (and have to) manually switch between 1080p50 and 1080p60. Unfortunately there's no auto switching. So if you connect a 50Hz source (like your PAL NES), chose a 50Hz output and if you have a 60Hz source (your SFC), chose a 60Hz outout. DVI output mode only supports 60Hz output.

[Smashbro29]

please note that I was NOT talking about problems with the Framemeister, but with problems running the MD's RGB signal through an Extron sync processor.

MD was always fine on the Mini and PCE is fine as well, since they added the sync level adjustment.

Well this is one hell of a situation I've got going on, it looks like I'd need to keep that VGA switch and still get the extron with multiple inputs.

[khann]

If you have the current FW on it, you can (and have to) manually switch between 1080p50 and 1080p60. Unfortunately there's no auto switching. So if you connect a 50Hz source (like your PAL NES), chose a 50Hz output and if you have a 60Hz source (your SFC), chose a 60Hz outout. DVI output mode only supports 60Hz output.

Hmmmmm ok ! now i understand ! thx



edit: after a quick search, i can't find the menu where i can define 1080p50 or 1080p60, all i have is 1080p and 1080i : /

[lunch_box]

Can I ask why you use an extron along with the framemeister?
Does it improve anything etc?
Thanks

[NWrain]

If you have the current FW on it, you can (and have to) manually switch between 1080p50 and 1080p60. Unfortunately there's no auto switching. So if you connect a 50Hz source (like your PAL NES), chose a 50Hz output and if you have a 60Hz source (your SFC), chose a 60Hz outout. DVI output mode only supports 60Hz output.

Hmmmmm ok ! now i understand ! thx



edit: after a quick search, i can't find the menu where i can define 1080p50 or 1080p60, all i have is 1080p and 1080i : /

Then you may have an old firmware version. You can find the version number under Special then "FW Version".

There are update instructions here.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

[Smashbro29]

Can I ask why you use an extron along with the framemeister?
Does it improve anything etc?
Thanks

Makes PS2 and Dreamcast as good as it can be.