XRGB-mini Framemeister

[ZellSF]

Hmm... was hoping for one that'd be male to male and cheaper. I'm getting mine from someone I know IN Japan who can get it for me.

Doing my re-reading and discovered that Framemeister comes with a converter to get my SCART stuff going just fine.

Almost ready to make the jump here! Just a few more doubts.

DO NOT USE THE INCLUDED ADAPTER WITH RGB SCART CABLES!

That's a Japanese 21 pin adapter, it will not work with European/US RGB SCART cables and might (unlikely) damage the Framemeister.

I don't think I tried RGB when I had a slim, but the component picture is exactly the same on all three models, fat, slim and slim w/build in PSU. Component is noticeably noisier than RGB though. Haven't compared the PS2 against a PS1.

I think you will experience stutter when playing NTSC PS1 games on a modified PAL PS2 though. At least that was the case last time I checked.

Do you have a good reason for saying that? I haven't ever seen any stuttering on my PS2 that wasn't caused by the games own poor framerates.

[Smashbro29]

Hmm... was hoping for one that'd be male to male and cheaper. I'm getting mine from someone I know IN Japan who can get it for me.

Doing my re-reading and discovered that Framemeister comes with a converter to get my SCART stuff going just fine.

Almost ready to make the jump here! Just a few more doubts.

DO NOT USE THE INCLUDED ADAPTER WITH RGB SCART CABLES!

That's a Japanese 21 pin adapter, it will not work with European/US RGB SCART cables and might (unlikely) damage the Framemeister.

Yikes, what do I get then?

And how's composite look on Framemeister?

And what's the move for Dreamcast?

[Konsolkongen]

Do you have a good reason for saying that? I haven't ever seen any stuttering on my PS2 that wasn't caused by the games own poor framerates.

It's probably because the PAL PS2 outputs in a slightly off refresh-rate when playing NTSC PS1 games. It's the same if you 60Hz modify a PAL Mega Drive or Saturn. It's only a problem on the Framemeister.

Would be nice if someone could check the refresh-rate when playing a US or JAP PS1-game on a US or JAP PS2 so I can compare it against mine.

[ZellSF]

Hmm... was hoping for one that'd be male to male and cheaper. I'm getting mine from someone I know IN Japan who can get it for me.

Doing my re-reading and discovered that Framemeister comes with a converter to get my SCART stuff going just fine.

Almost ready to make the jump here! Just a few more doubts.

DO NOT USE THE INCLUDED ADAPTER WITH RGB SCART CABLES!

That's a Japanese 21 pin adapter, it will not work with European/US RGB SCART cables and might (unlikely) damage the Framemeister.

Yikes, what do I get then?

Either:

1: The included adapter AND a Japanese 21 pin to EURO SCART adapter
2: A EURO SCART to XRGB-mini adapter

retro_gaming_cables sells both at eBay at the moment, retro_console_accessories usually sells the second option too. If you're a bit technically inclined you could also just rewire the included cable.

And how's composite look on Framemeister?

Terrible, like it looks on anything.

It's probably because the PAL PS2 outputs in a slightly off refresh-rate when playing NTSC PS1 games. It's the same if you 60Hz modify a PAL Mega Drive or Saturn. It's only a problem on the Framemeister.

So there's no reason you're saying this other than personal experience? As said, no stutter on my PS2 via the Framemeister. I'm pretty sensitive so it would be very weird if I didn't notice. Don't have my PS2 here so I really can't do more thorough tests.

PAL PS2s natively support NTSC 60hz, it would be a very weird design by Sony to make them run a different refresh rate than US consoles.

[Smashbro29]

Good stuff.

Does NES via composite at least look like it would in the 80's on the old wooden TVs? I realize NES is a pain in the butt to get looking very good but if I can just get serviceable picture and no lag I'd be fine for now.

So the Japanese cable won't work but the European one will? How strange. But thanks for the warning.

So let me see, component to D-terminal can just be any ol' cable

I have the solution for plugging in my RGB systems

Will the Framemeister give out an acceptable signal for modern capture cards?

I think I may have finally found my way of future proofing old consoles and tying them up into one neat little box.

Does anyone know if a Sync Strike still has any use to me? Will it do much tot he picture quality? Will it add lag?

[Konsolkongen]

So there's no reason you're saying this other than personal experience? As said, no stutter on my PS2 via the Framemeister. I'm pretty sensitive so it would be very weird if I didn't notice. Don't have my PS2 here so I really can't do more thorough tests.

PAL PS2s natively support NTSC 60hz, it would be a very weird design by Sony to make them run a different refresh rate than US consoles.

Yes I can only speak from my own experience. The PAL PS2 stutters when playing NTSC PS1 games. When playing NTSC PS2 games it works fine.

[BuckoA51]

It's only a problem on the Framemeister.

More accurately it's not a problem for CRT but can be for whatever solution you use on a HDTV/modern display.

My PS2 won't do 60hz for PS1 games at all, regardless of region, bizarrely.

It would be a very weird design by Sony to make them run a different refresh rate than US consoles.

This isn't actually uncommon at all and has to do with tiny differences in timing between PAL and NTSC clocks.

[Smashbro29]

I'm just glad the American PS2 won't screw up the American games, will the American PS2 run any region PS1/2 game with no issue on Framemeister?

[chadti99]

What is the best way to connect a Dreamcast to the XRGB-Mini? From what I've been reading over at Videogameperfection.com I think I could simply use Arcade Forge's UMSA adapter with a modded DC VGA box to allow 15khz and 31khz operation. I would feed this into my XRGB Mini via RGB but would this allow me to use any resolution the Dreamcast supports? Would 480P compatible games output at 480P through the RGB conversion?

[Artemio]

What is the best way to connect a Dreamcast to the XRGB-Mini? From what I've been reading over at Videogameperfection.com I think I could simply use Arcade Forge's UMSA adapter with a modded DC VGA box to allow 15khz and 31khz operation. I would feed this into my XRGB Mini via RGB but would this allow me to use any resolution the Dreamcast supports? Would 480P compatible games output at 480P through the RGB conversion?

Yes, they will. However you can accomplish the same with an RGB21 cable and an unmodded VGA box, switching cables instead of a switch though.

480p games would need the box to be set at 31khz. I've tested this with my suite and on an arcade monitor that accepts 31khz and 15 khz, not with the mini though.

[marqs]

What is the best way to connect a Dreamcast to the XRGB-Mini?

I wonder if DC outputs csync also in VGA mode. In that case, a modified RGB scart cable would be enough. It'd need a switch between pin 6 and gnd (VGA enable) and swapping cvideo to csync. Opening the video connector could be a pain, though.

[Smashbro29]

Will this create a proper signal the modern capture devices will pick up?

I really just wish this thing had proper VGA ports.

I feel like the only thing I've managed to figure out so far is that I need a component to D terminal cable for component stuff and some kind of SCART converter to get my SCART systems going.

Without spending more than the cost of a Framemeister how do I get the NES to look ok (I say ok because I realize they made composite in hell) and not lag on an HDTV? I wanna say composite into Framemeister.

[Shining]

Are you guys satisfied with your Mini and 720p scanlines? I get one dark scanline followed by two thin ones. Do you get that as well? 1080p and Smartx2 looks perfect though. TV is of course set to 1:1 and the Mini to "Normal". Look at the white background in this picture: http://i.imgur.com/0t2EE.jpg

A firmware update with fixed 1080p scanlines couldn't come any sooner

[Konsolkongen]

Pretty sure that's your TV's scaling. What brand is your TV?

I recently switched from Panasonic to Samsung and the scaling of 720p is much better now.

Panasonic:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... G_0216.jpg

Samsung:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1355248940

On the Panasonic I had the V_scaler set to 5, so the image appears sharper, but it's not TV related.

[Shining]

Oh, i see. It's a Toshiba LED and i'm extremely happy with it otherwise. Oh, well. Maybe a DVDO Edge would fix this issue?

[Konsolkongen]

It will, but on some consoles it will add a crazy amount of lag (25ms), according to the sound delay screen at least.

[Shining]

Alright. I will wait and see what a possible new firmware will bring. Any news on that front? Guess not

[Konsolkongen]

I was really hoping for a Christmas firmware

[Shining]

Hehe, same here actually. And then a Happy New Year firmware. Hopefully they are working on some big improvements!

[Smashbro29]

http://global.rakuten.com/en/category/e ... ent_cable/

I'm helping! But seriously these are way cheaper than the ones recommended to me.

EDIT: Hell yeah I can't wait for them to make 1080p mode work, I thought they would have by now.

[Konsolkongen]

I can only hope that since it has taken so long to release a new firmware it means that they are addressing most of the problems discussed on this forum. There's probably a million things to check before they even think about releasing it. It would be pretty bad if a new firmware ended up bricking someone's Framemeister

[Thomago]

I was really hoping for a Christmas firmware

Oh yeah, I was hoping so too.

BTW, since there was much talk about SCART switches here:
I tried a lot of them (cheap ones as well as very expensive ones) and found the "Bandrigde Premium 5 Way SCART Selector" (20 € on ebay) to be a perfect partner for the Framemeister. Yeah really, a 20 € device outplayed switches which cost 50 -70 €. I couldn't believe it.
I don't have the time right now, but if anyone's interested in which switches I tested and which shortcomings they had, just ask and I will compile a list.

[BuckoA51]

I'd be very interested to add that information to my page, if that's okay?

[chadti99]

I was really hoping for a Christmas firmware

Oh yeah, I was hoping so too.

BTW, since there was much talk about SCART switches here:
I tried a lot of them (cheap ones as well as very expensive ones) and found the "Bandrigde Premium 5 Way SCART Selector" (20 € on ebay) to be a perfect partner for the Framemeister. Yeah really, a 20 € device outplayed switches which cost 50 -70 €. I couldn't believe it.
I don't have the time right now, but if anyone's interested in which switches I tested and which shortcomings they had, just ask and I will compile a list.

Did you try the Keene Scart Commander? I was tempted to order the Bandridge but couldn't find anyone using it.

[Thomago]

I'd be very interested to add that information to my page, if that's okay?

Yes, please do so. However please note that I tested some of the devices you tested and got other results ... just look for yourself.

Videomaster Professional Video Scart Controller:
- Isolation: Failed
- Sharpness: Slight bleeding of bright/saturated picture areas
- Noise: Didn't bother to test
- Other things worth mentioning: Cheap, dirty looking metal case

Hama AV Selector 100S:
- Isolation: Pass
- Sharpness: Slight bleeding of bright/saturated picture areas
- Noise: Noticable noise added
- Other things worth mentioning: none

Marmitek Connect 236:
- Isolation: Pass
- Sharpness: Heavy bleeding of bright/saturated picture areas
- Noise: Heavy noise added
- Other things worth mentioning: costly, remote controlled but doesn't do automatic switching

Professional 5-Way Scart Video Control Center (Profitec TC-736):
- Isolation: Pass, however ... see below under "Noise"
- Sharpness: Minimal bleeding of bright/saturated picture areas
- Noise: That's a weird one: If only one device is connected to the switch, everything's okay. However if another device gets connected (this other device doesn't have to be running or even be connected to a power supply!) you can see considerable noise in low-brightness 288p/240p signals.
- Other things worth mentioning: metal case, semi-costly

Hama Scart-Switchbox 4/1 and derivates:
- Isolation: Pass
- Sharpness: HEAVY sharpness degradation (see below), ghosting (from time to time I could see duplicates of bright letters to their right)
- Noise: No added noise
- Other things worth mentioning: sturdy metal case, semi-costly, very basic connector-wise

http://imgur.com/phgnY,OpBeR#0
"First image" -> signal from a Switchbox derivate (the Hama Switchbox does even worse!)
"Second image" -> original signal

Bandrigde Premium 5 Way SCART Selector
- Isolation: Pass
- Sharpness: No sharpness degradation
- Noise: No added noise
- Other things worth mentioning: pretty fancy connector/feature-wise; at first I had to fiddle with the Framemeister's Sync_Level setting to get a picture from this switch, now it works with automatic sync ... weird.

Btw I didn't test for brightness degradation since the Framemeister can compensate that without problems.

EDIT: I can't stress this enough: USE GOOD SCART CABLES!!! I recommend the "Goldkabel" ones with the Ferrit cores - they work perfectly and you can get them dirt-cheap on (german) ebay.

[BuckoA51]

Heavy loss of sharpness on a manual switch?! That is odd, I must re-test. There was definitely no noise (or very little that I didn't notice) added on the Hama AV Selector 100S though, I can't explain that. I don't have mine any more to re-test to see if it's a Framemeister related phenomenon or not.

[Smashbro29]

I'd be very interested to add that information to my page, if that's okay?

Reviews

I'm using the Madcatz one, according to that site that reviewed a whole bunch of em, that's like the best one you can get for a reasonable price, I've never used any other switch so I have no way to make the comparison but I guess it looks ok (still don't have a framemeister though looking into how to hook it all in before I drop all the money).

[Thomago]

Heavy loss of sharpness on a manual switch?! That is odd, I must re-test.

Yes, odd indeed. I tested three Switchboxes in total and all of them showed this effect. The vendor I got them from couldn't reproduce this effect, however he used a simple CRT setup for testing. Probably this is a Framemeister-only problem.

There was definitely no noise (or very little that I didn't notice) added on the Hama AV Selector 100S though, I can't explain that. I don't have mine any more to re-test to see if it's a Framemeister related phenomenon or not.

Unfortunately I can't find the one E-Mail where I described the noise problem to the vendor I got the AV Selectors (I purchased two at once; same thing with the Videomaster) from, but well - these switches where so bad that I returned them the day I got them - you get the picture? Btw I had the silver ones - perhaps this makes a difference.

[Shining]

I love how this thread gets all from scart connectors to SNES console revisions. Keepin' it alive

[chadti99]

I might have missed the solution to this but is anyone else experiencing random signal dropouts when using a model 1 Sega Genesis with a retro accessories XRGB wired cable? I noticed just before the holidays they had a cable with a sync booster and I'm guessing this may solve the issue but their eBay store appears to be closed for the moment.

Also has anyone been able to successfully connect a Genesis Model 1 with 32x via RGB to the mini? I can't get it to sync up.