Shmups for Beginners?

[RBW]

I think beginners need: player aces with small hitbox, slow enemy bullets, and/or quick bomb trigger
- battle bakraid
- dodonpachi series
- touhou
- strikers series
- shippu mahou daisakusen is easy enough for me
- raiden 1st. gen

ok, the last one is a joke

[Giest118]

Is the Futari Novice mode on the 360 disc? Can't find it… or do you mean the one that's listed under the Arrange mode?

It's under Arrange mode for some reason, but it uses the mechanics from 1.5 with autobombs added.

[O. Van Bruce]

Is the Futari Novice mode on the 360 disc? Can't find it… or do you mean the one that's listed under the Arrange mode?

It's under Arrange mode for some reason, but it uses the mechanics from 1.5 with autobombs added.

Please, play in ultra Novice difficulty because the other 2 are a joke... easier than a Touhou on easy

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Akai Katana Origin/Slash when in Novice is pretty good. You easily recover Phantom Gauge so you can stay in it very often, and the bullet patterns aren as insultingly easy as say Touhou on easy or Futari Novice Original is. The scoring mechanics are also a lot of fun to play with, even in Novice.

[ED-057]

I think 19xx could be a good one. Not that hard, and there is not necessarily any need to focus on getting a perfect score for each level until you are good enough to clear the game.

BTW, bullet hell games may be seen as intimidating but I think one good thing about them for beginners is the slower bullets make it easier to build up dodging skills.

[EmperorIng]

I think lower bullet density is better for new-timers because it actually gives a sense that you are indeed able to dodge things.

danmaku immediately intimidates and often puts off potential players. They say "no one can possibly do that" and look the other way (or, "I'm not going to devote the time to learn how to dodge that."). Danmaku should be something you work up to, not start. Add to that fact that danmaku shooters are almost exclusively based around very intricate, demanding score systems, which in this day and age are never really newcomer-friendly.

What's nice about "older" shmups is that even if they are balls-hard, there's never a moment you feel "man, that was impossible to dodge." Though I admit that Darius Gaiden often dangerously walks the line!

[Obscura]

I dunno; I was never particularly intimidated by Imperishable Night on Normal, and even playing it, there was only pattern where when I saw it, my immediate reaction was "WTF, you've got to be kidding me"... and I was able to just bomb past that pattern (and many others, but they were all at least obviously possible; they just had a higher-than-preferred death rate for me).

Compare that to, say, Dragon Blaze, where the first time you see any pattern, it's not dense at all, but it's fast enough that you can't even really tell what's happening; it just looks like chaos.

[KyoKusagani1999]

There's Something Called "Novice Mode" In most CAVE releases...
That'll get anyone starting a fighting chance to feel good!

Also, the lower levels on Deathsmiles. It was made to appeal not just
to hardcore audiences, after all!

[Edmond Dantes]

I suppose a better name for this topic would've been "what was the first shmup you ever beat?" That's why I named the two games I did in the op--Thunder Force III was the first shmup I beat without cheating and Gradius: The Interstellar Assault was the first I 1cced on Normal.

(By the way, how do you difficulty-select in TFIII? My copy didn't include a manual and I want to play on hard mode).

[EmperorIng]

The first ever shmup I beat was Darius Gaiden, bitches.
credit-feedin' like a baws

[Acid_Rain]

Is the Futari Novice mode on the 360 disc? Can't find it… or do you mean the one that's listed under the Arrange mode?

It's under Arrange mode for some reason, but it uses the mechanics from 1.5 with autobombs added.

Please, play in ultra Novice difficulty because the other 2 are a joke... easier than a Touhou on easy

I'll try tomorrow.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

(By the way, how do you difficulty-select in TFIII? My copy didn't include a manual and I want to play on hard mode).

A/B/C+Start. You may as well turn it all the way up to Mania if you want to challenge yourself since there's very little difference between difficulty levels.

[Acid_Rain]

Please, play in ultra Novice difficulty because the other 2 are a joke... easier than a Touhou on easy

Ok, even I could 1cc novice ultra on the first try.

[chum]

Dimahoo

[O. Van Bruce]

Please, play in ultra Novice difficulty because the other 2 are a joke... easier than a Touhou on easy

Ok, even I could 1cc novice ultra on the first try.

Right? At least the fireworks of that mode are amazing

I suppose a better name for this topic would've been "what was the first shmup you ever beat?" That's why I named the two games I did in the op--Thunder Force III was the first shmup I beat without cheating and Gradius: The Interstellar Assault was the first I 1cced on Normal.

My first (worthy) 1cc ever was UFO normal. from then on, all of the Touhous and the last one I've 1cc'd was Ketsui.

[Eaglet]

Starting with something that is way above your current skill level is a good way of getting your skills up. Fast.
So long as you've got the balls and stubbornness to go through lots and lots of failed attempts.

I seriously recommend Futari BL God as a good starting point since it gives you loads of resources and a very fair challenge.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you have a Saturn (I can't recommend emulation in this case), Guardian Force has RAD co-op. Easier played this way too. Just tried it with a guy who isn't into shmups and played it for the first time, and he was the last man standing.
(Showed him Battle Garegga, Souky and Radiant Silvergun before - all looked about the same to him and he liked Guardian Force better; so did I, to be honest.)
We played with the controls as follows: A - weapon, B - special, L - turn the weapon left, R - turn right.
It helped that specials look stunning and it's a game of Fun Weapons™.

[Arvandor]

Mars Matrix - Lots of fun, very simple, has a rechargeable and oft useable shield mechanic to help give players a safety bubble without making the game too easy. Plus reflecting bullets is fun =)

ESPgaluda - Cave's easiest game. Another fun one with a lot of ways to survive. A quick, chargeable bomb with a decent stock, and a slow-mo. Sweet. Only downside is that you're a fairy with psychic powers, instead of something awesome

Triggerheart Exelica - Easy as shooters go, with a very satisfying "use your enemy as a shield/bowling ball" mechanic.

Ikaruga - Switching color mindsets takes getting used to, and not exactly the easiest game around, but crazy addicting, and very... pretty. Also the most fun shooter to play co-op, in my opinion.

Under Defeat - Not exactly easy, but the difficulty isn't that daunting bullet blizzard variety that may intimidate new players. Very gorgeous game, pretty explosions, and a lot of fun.

[Deca]

Play whatever the hell you want starting out, this mindset of labeling "beginner friendly" games is unhealthy. It's encouraging a mindset of just constantly picking at low hanging fruit.

A better approach to this would be to ask "which games aren't beginner friendly?" There are definitely some that are drastically more approachable once you have a base understanding of the genre. Even so, a beginner could do just fine starting off with something like Ketsui/Garegga/Pink Sweets if it was something they were enthusiastic about and wanted to play. Just run a few by them and see what catches their eye and interests them.

As far as people thinking new players are horrified of danmaku and that dense patterns are turning them off to the genre...I dunno man I think that's what gets people interested these days. Show them a slow, easy, old game and they're more likely to get bored or annoyed by losing lives to sniper shots and blatant memo sections. Show them the basics of how to deal with danmaku and they'll be having a LOT more fun right out of the gate, even if they're struggling to defeat the first boss.

[KAI]

But you know, some people are not good at playing video games, and can't improve even if they want to.
It's like giving a soccer ball to a kid and tell him "you can be the next Messi if you practice enough".
I think it's 50% practice and 50% talent.

Bullet soul is easy.

[Deca]

I dunno I think dedicated work can overcome a talent deficiency at least until you get way up into the top levels of play. You might not learn as quickly as someone who has a bit of natural talent for it but you definitely can learn.

Either way, people don't need to be setting amazing scores or even clearing games to simply enjoy and appreciate them. That much is clear just from a quick glance around this community, the "serious" crowd is marginal at best.

[Erppo]

Play whatever the hell you want starting out, this mindset of labeling "beginner friendly" games is unhealthy. It's encouraging a mindset of just constantly picking at low hanging fruit.

I agree with this post. I don't really understand the idea that a beginner should just stick to the easiest games they can find. Getting progress in something really hard is at least as satisfying and just as good way into the genre.

If a person finds high difficulty unappealing, shmups probably aren't the right genre for them in the first place.

[Hagane]

Sengoku Blade as well (I've never seen its later stages, but its early stages seemed easy enough; that said, the charge shot mechanics are really awkward).

Define awkward.

And I agree that beginners should start with easier games. If you are a beginner and start playing STGs with Futari Ultra, UFO lunatic or Gunbird 2, chances are you are going to quit the genre. Starting with something easier will help you get used to the basics, and when you have some experience you will be better prepared for the harder games.

tl;dr: you shouldn't try to study physics if you still haven't even learned basic math.

[EmperorIng]

Who says an old game needs to be "slow and easy" though? There were games made between Space Invaders and DoDonPachi. After all, the Taito shmups of the 90s were certainly not "slow, easy, old" games. Excitement is the prerequisite for getting people excited in games, which isn't a feature necessarily exclusive to any one type of shooter.

Shooting games, at their core, should focus first on two things: shooting and dodging. If those aren't fun and engaging, no scoring system or hail of bullets is going to save it. Score and danmaku should add to the game, as opposed to make up for its deficiencies.

[Erppo]

Shooting games, at their core, should focus first on two things: shooting and dodging. If those aren't fun and engaging, no scoring system or hail of bullets is going to save it. Score and danmaku should add to the game, as opposed to make up for its deficiencies.

I have no idea what you are saying with this. Score and danmaku are things that make you shoot and dodge, usually in a fun way.

[Hagane]

Not really, a lot of scoring systems aren't based on dodging (chaining, bullet cancelling) or shooting (grazing). And danmaku is often just cosmetic.

[EmperorIng]

Chaining coins in Gunbird 2 or using the dragonshot in Dragon Blaze are good examples of scoring systems that do not take away at all from the fun of shooting and dodging. Same thing with chaining together laser lock-ons in RayForce - because the laser lock-on is inherently fun, it is consequently fun to destroy a lot of things at once with it. Same with GigaWing 2's reflect barrier - which is indeed danmaku.

Other games, like Ikaruga, Border Down, or DoDonPachi have scoring systems that work contrary to enjoying the game. I am not saying those games are not enjoyable in certain respects, but there is nothing inherently fun in chaining enemies in Ikaruga, nor do you try to sell Ikaruga to somebody with the tagline "And you can chain enemies too!"

Basically the point is that these aren't the reasons that people play shooters. My thought playing Gunbird 2 is always "maybe this time I'll actually make it to the north pole!" If you're going to have a "shmup for a beginner" you better have something that grabs their attention and has those core aspects down pat. Then they can "graduate" on to other things, like Psyvariar 2, or ESPGaluda!

[Erppo]

Other games, like Ikaruga, Border Down, or DoDonPachi have scoring systems that work contrary to enjoying the game.

Umm... yeah...

Basically the point is that these aren't the reasons that people play shooters. My thought playing Gunbird 2 is always "maybe this time I'll actually make it to the north pole!" If you're going to have a "shmup for a beginner" you better have something that grabs their attention and has those core aspects down pat. Then they can "graduate" on to other things, like Psyvariar 2, or ESPGaluda!

You're generalizing things with no real basis. What about all those people who got into shmups because they liked chaining in Ikaruga? That and your classification between "inherently fun" and not is completely arbitrary, seemingly based on nothing but what games you happen to like.

[Nereid]

Ikaruga is what got me into shmups. And I liked the chaining.

I was terrible at it though.



Most people aren't me.

[Deca]

Other games, like Ikaruga, Border Down, or DoDonPachi have scoring systems that work contrary to enjoying the game(...)there is nothing inherently fun in chaining enemies in Ikaruga, nor do you try to sell Ikaruga to somebody with the tagline "And you can chain enemies too!"

Then they can "graduate" on to other things, like Psyvariar 2!

Shooting games, at their core, should focus first on two things: shooting and dodging. If those aren't fun and engaging, no scoring system or hail of bullets is going to save it.