The Nintendo 64 thread!

KAI · Post by **KAI** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:17 am

Zelda games were cool only when they came out. I can't even touch them right now.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:28 am

KAI wrote:Zelda games were cool only when they came out. I can't even touch them right now.

Don't speak.

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:31 am

One cool thing about Majora's Mask was the foreplay. No childhood sweetheart, no tales of Tree™, no home. Chilling stuff.
Although the series had repented of the Tree™ tales in Oracle of Ages. Capcom be praised. One puzzlig thing about N64 is the lack of hyped Capcom games on it. Very unlike other Nintendo systems.

EmperorIng · Post by **EmperorIng** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:39 am

Majora's Mask was interesting in that the "exploration" that the series is known for was subverted and redirected - you know "explored" inter-personal relationships. Many people don't dig that, and that's understandable. But it made the game itself a very unique, a very personal, and -ultimately- a very rewarding experience.

You definitely cared a lot more about Termina's residents than anyone in Hyrule in Ocarina of Time.

Too bad Aonuma never really understood what made MM's story and world so great (relatable, distinct characters; threatening presence of evil/destruction; melancholy and redemption) when he went and developed TP and SS. Real steps down, I'd say: TP's story (and mythos!) was nonexistent and thus uninteresting; SS's was saturday morning anime. WW is not mentioned because I think it is A) a lot of fun and B) its narrative goes in an entirely different direction with its own strengths and weaknesses.

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:42 am

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are where Nintendo cooties finally found Zelda. Took 'em a while, but the party's over I'm afraid. Just look at the character design.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:27 am

EmperorIng wrote: Too bad Aonuma never really understood what made MM's story and world so great (relatable, distinct characters; threatening presence of evil/destruction; melancholy and redemption) when he went and developed TP and SS. Real steps down, I'd say.

No one was more surprised than I. I still value MM as a work of sheer genius, and after playing it I had Aonuma's name imprinted on memory so that I could pounce on his directorial follow up.

I think the 'cooties' got Zelda at Wind Waker, actually. I do not understand the love for that game. I'm not saying its bad, just unfinished, underwhelming, and at times completely counter-intuitive and broken - detracting elements the series never struggled with prior.

TP was a hollow experience and overly long and the DS games needn't be discussed in any real depth. Skyward Sword I'm assured is better, but I haven't played it yet.

EmperorIng · Post by **EmperorIng** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:01 am

I wouldn't disagree! However, at the time, WW's charm, wide-open world (which allowed after a point the first bit of real exploration since Link's Awakening, in my opinion), refined item-use and combat, and intriguing plot made me more than willing to overlook its flaws. There is no denying it is rushed and at times underwhelming, but I think it's more than the sum of its parts.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:15 am

EmperorIng wrote:I wouldn't disagree! However, at the time, WW's charm, wide-open world (which allowed after a point the first bit of real exploration since Link's Awakening, in my opinion), refined item-use and combat, and intriguing plot made me more than willing to overlook its flaws. There is no denying it is rushed and at times underwhelming, but I think it's more than the sum of its parts.

I never felt as though the hand to hand combat improved on the established N64 layout, probably because it didn't have the controller to make it as comfortable. The sea combat, on the other hand, is infuriating owing to a desperately poor design decision (not what I'd expect from Nintendo) and I generally found the sailing to be a worthless institution only several hours into the game. Personally, I'm of the mindset WW is very much the sum of its parts: what's good is good, what's average is average, what's terrible is terrible, and thus it shall remain.

ZellSF · Post by **ZellSF** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:46 pm

Seconding that Doom 64 should be played on a PC via Doom64 EX and not on a N64.

It's VERY faithful (unlike earlier projects that do the same) and has 360 controller support if you want to play it with a gamepad.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:51 am

EmperorIng wrote:I wouldn't disagree! However, at the time, WW's charm, wide-open world (which allowed after a point the first bit of real exploration since Link's Awakening, in my opinion), refined item-use and combat, and intriguing plot made me more than willing to overlook its flaws. There is no denying it is rushed and at times underwhelming, but I think it's more than the sum of its parts.

I agree with you here.

Now with my cred freshly burnished under suspect circumstances, I loaded up Aidyn Chronicles (the European version ROM...got a little into it before I noticed, and I didn't see much difference compared to the U ROM; I don't know if the resolution differences will favor the US or European versions for busy areas, but the game tries to avoid slowdown by all means possible and then some) again with a new save.

Interesting game...as I remembered, the game's opening screams of cheapness and then some. It goes right downhill for a while with some fetch quests in a castle. However, once you get past that, you get to go back outside...and I don't know why but the game has grabbed me. Really hard to put it; it's hard not to like it for being more like a super consolized Elder Scrolls game with more emphasis on super slow grinding (super slow fights, argh) and much more careful character progression. Judging from some reading online, there's a good bit of depth to the combat options...although being stupid like I am, so far I just have everybody (including the dedicated mage) ranking up in strength and dexterity so we can melee roll over shit. Still have to figure out how to cast magic in battle - although I have a good idea it's done with the help of the C-buttons.

Slow framerate, really jerky character movement, hilariously mismatched details between areas, and the camera is always pointed downwards, and plenty of ugly valleys to slog through - but there are many nice details as well. A good deal of more subtle humor than seen in the slapstick opening hour or so is starting to show up too.

The scary thing is that it feels like I've only just started, but the in-game counter already has me near 7 hours...people are reporting 70 hours for this game, and more if you play through again with different characters and really comb the lands for every hidden chest. Oh, I forgot to mention - chests don't show up until you're practically right on top of them, bah.

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:33 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:Aidyn Chronicles

Whoa, N64 got one new game in 2001? Colour me impressed.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:20 pm

moh wrote:
Vokatse wrote:This game was awesome, I got EVERYTHING in it:

yeah, I've heard nothing but good about Jet Force Gemini, but I'm yet to play it. Gotta put that one on my to do list.

Fuck, I found this tedious and completely underwhelming back in the day, can't bear to think how much I'd hate it now.

I quite enjoyed some GTA rip-off (World Driver or something?), though that's probably fated like ass as well.
Still enjoy the odd bash on Mace and MK3D, and WCW vs NWO is still the best console wrestler of all time.
A HD remix of Wave Race would also be more than welcome because it's still far more tactile and nuanced that the GC version. As was 1080 actually.

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:12 am

Ganelon wrote:Unlike diehard Nintendo fans, I didn't find the appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo

Only diehard Nintendo fans find the appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:27 am

Drum wrote:
Ganelon wrote:Unlike the majority of the entire world's videogaming communities and industry peers, I didn't find the appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo
Only people with taste and a proper appreciation for the videogame medium find appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo.

Fixed the above on both counts to make abundantly more sense.

KAI · Post by **KAI** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:39 am

For some reason, I want to play Zelda MM right now.

Goemon's Great Adventure
International Superstar Soccer 2000
Major League Baseball Featuring Ken Griffey Jr. - This game used the C-buttons like no other, great game.

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 am

Skykid wrote:
Drum wrote:
Ganelon wrote:Unlike the majority of the entire world's videogaming communities and industry peers, I didn't find the appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo
Only people with taste and a proper appreciation for the videogame medium find appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo.
Fixed the above on both counts to make abundantly more sense.

I was being sarcastic. His statement was just asinine and incoherent.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:54 am

Drum wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Drum wrote:Only people with taste and a proper appreciation for the videogame medium find appeal in the widely acclaimed Zelda duo.
Fixed the above on both counts to make abundantly more sense.
I was being sarcastic. His statement was just asinine and incoherent.

I can see how my post wasn't entirely clear, although that sarcasm doesn't reflect well on your reading comprehension either. Have you considered that there may be a lot of diehard Nintendo fans?

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:07 am

Ganelon wrote: I can see how my post wasn't entirely clear, but that sarcasm doesn't reflect well on your reading comprehension either. Have you considered that there may be a lot of diehard Nintendo fans?

Yes, and mostly for good reason, but no way near enough to suggest the undying critical success of the 64 duo is down to fanaticism rather than the highest form of artistic videogame expression. Folk can say what they want about the console, but it will always remain responsible for two of the most remarkable titles ever conceived.

Drum wrote:I was being sarcastic.

Glad to hear. Sorry I missed it.

EmperorIng · Post by **EmperorIng** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:24 am

On topic:

I haven't played it since I was a kid, so my memories have surely warped, but at the time, I really thought Bomberman 64 was a really cool, sort of 3D action-adventure take on the Bomberman series, with some really sweet boss fights.

I might be wrong, though! Has anyone played it recently? It was always a game I wanted to own, but only ever rented.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:52 am

Skykid wrote:Yes, and mostly for good reason, but no way near enough to suggest the undying critical success of the 64 duo is down to fanaticism rather than the highest form of artistic videogame expression.

I just feel that most Nintendo first-party games, especially from the pre-Wii era, are given quite a bit more benefit of the doubt as "quality" titles. Perfect Dark is a prime example of a game that I believe was critically overrated by those drinking Nintendo Kool-Aid. I think Perfect Dark was a good game but not even close to the best looking, best controlling, or most plot-heavy FPS of its day. I'm not suggesting anything specific about the N64 Zeldas and do respect educated opinions, but I suspect (not claiming anything for certain here) that the heavily Nintendo-biased industry may give it extra credit.

The other half of why I think this way is possibly my own inability to enjoy the games. It's probably sacrilege for me to say, but I actually prefer playing Quest 64 over Ocarina of Time. That's part of what made me come up with the theory that different games have atmosphere that appeals to different people. Most Nintendo games don't resonate with me even though I've played and own more of them than the vast majority of gamers in an attempt to understand everything. Zelda, Metroid, Mother, Wave Race, F-Zero, you name it... I usually appreciate the clean quality but get bored quickly. Fire Emblem is the only Nintendo series right now where new releases excite me.

If anything, count my opinion as representative of the fact that even the most highly rated games don't appeal to everyone. I would say that these folks aren't to be feared but rather ought to be pitied. I always feel bad when folks complain that Lunar is an outdated, overly simple RPG, thereby revealing themselves unable to comprehend the common points of the game that appeal to its fans.

EmperorIng · Post by **EmperorIng** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:14 am

Quest 64 is an interesting RPG on a system utterly starved of RPGs, though it has its share of flaws in the story department (though i think the lack of compelling narrative is the major fault of an otherwise decent game).

I've always gotten a chuckle about your character melee attacking the final boss. Something about seeing some eldritch, evil-incarnate demon being impotently bonked by your little wooden staff is classic VG silliness.

As far as the sports games, I don't think Mario Tennis 64 has been topped by later Mario Tennis outings. Some say the GBA one, but they're wrong!

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:40 am

Ganelon wrote:F-Zero

The only one I played to any greater extent - F-Zero GX - isn't "first party" and feels more "Sega" than "Nintendo" to me (then again, so does Excite Truck, oddly enough) and at first I found it nigh on impenetrable. Then I played the Story events. Oh how I wish somebody told me not to spend any points for other things before.
Story is a real eye-opener. Play it before rendering judgement is the best advice I have to give if you wanna know what they did there.

As for (Super) Metroid, I have two:
a) play with a PlayStation gamepad (like I did) or Classic Controller Pro (four triggers are where it's at),
b) climbing a single wall is what wall jumping is all about. Possibly the most enjoyabe ability available early on and really, one wall is all you need. The only other game where I found wall jumping this rad was Ninja Five-O. Discovery of the Duck Tales (NES) pogo stick caliber.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:16 am

Ganelon wrote: I just feel that most Nintendo first-party games, especially from the pre-Wii era, are given quite a bit more benefit of the doubt as "quality" titles.

After playing most of the titles in question, I've witnessed no evidence to suggest the positive criticism lauded upon them was anything except completely justified. Output post Wii/DS, however, has certainly regressed in consistent first party quality, bar a few exceptions.

Ganelon wrote:Perfect Dark is a prime example of a game that I believe was critically overrated by those drinking Nintendo Kool-Aid. I think Perfect Dark was a good game but not even close to the best looking, best controlling, or most plot-heavy FPS of its day.

I don't consider Perfect Dark to be a true first-party Nintendo game, it was created and developed by Rare as a successor to Goldeneye, which I thought was cleaner/better.

Ganelon wrote:I'm not suggesting anything specific about the N64 Zeldas and do respect educated opinions, but I suspect (not claiming anything for certain here) that the heavily Nintendo-biased industry may give it extra credit.

You couldn't heap any more praise on them and ever be overdoing it. I swear no flag of allegiance to anything except quality, and I'll be damned if the N64 Zelda's aren't two of the most remarkably brilliant pieces of software ever written.

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:45 am

lolthisthread

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 am

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:lolpointlesspost

Fixed that for you.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:43 am

trap15 wrote:
ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:lolpointlesspost
Fixed that for you.

Glad someone pointed that out. Thread seems fine to me.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:16 pm

Skykid wrote:After playing most of the titles in question, I've witnessed no evidence to suggest the positive criticism lauded upon them was anything except completely justified.

Our difference in opinion likely helps explain the widely disparate views about the N64 here (a place that I'd say has a more neutral view of Nintendo, although that could be in part due to the fact that they've contributed so little to the STG genre). Folks like you who really enjoy Nintendo series have many of the highest quality games available on the platform and aren't pleased that the system gets bashed as if it were a Jaguar. Folks like me who don't see what the big deal is about Nintendo find the platform quite barren of favorites and would have just about as much fun with a 3DO. It's all good.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:21 pm

Ganelon wrote: Our difference in opinion likely helps explain the widely disparate views about the N64 here (a place that I'd say has a more neutral view of Nintendo, although that could be in part due to the fact that they've contributed so little to the STG genre). Folks like you who really enjoy Nintendo series have many of the highest quality games available on the platform and aren't pleased that the system gets bashed as if it were a Jaguar. Folks like me who don't see what the big deal is about Nintendo find the platform quite barren of favorites and would have just about as much fun with a 3DO. It's all good.

Allow me to realign your assumptions sir Ganelon. Folks can bash Nintendo consoles all they want. I don't consider the Wii to be a spectacular platform: I've spent more time with its competitors by far. Mario Galaxy aside, I consider Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports/Wii Fit, Twilight Princess, Paper Mario, Smash Bros Brawl, Metroid Other M to be a marked step back for their respective series. Zelda hasn't been Zelda since Wind Waker, on any platform. Sin & Punishment 2 and Galaxy are the only titles I could recommend the platform for. On 3DS, Mario 3D Land is stellar, but Kid Icarus is plagued with issues, NSMB2 is surprisingly derivative, and Mario Kart 3D is deflatingly flat. After playing Wii U I don't think I've ever been less enthused about a new console, ever.

The N64 lacked third party support and is inferior for anything 2D, so if that's all you give a damn about, go ahead an piss all over it. But its positives: controller, 3D modelling, and some of the brightest points of creative videogame development, earned it its stripes IMO.

I'm not a Nintendo apologist - I go wherever the good stuff is. They just happen to be a highly professional company with CV of outstanding games, nothing more.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:01 pm

The 64 was one of my least favorite systems ever. Everything I own is RGB ready and hooked up now. My 64 is the only system i own that is tucked under the bed.

The only games I ever owned were Zelda, F-Zero, S&P, Mischief Makers, Mario 64, Star Fox 64... I played others like Golden Eye, Wave Race, Banjo... and some other stuff that was just a few minutes here and there to try out.

I enjoyed my gamecube (alot) more to be honest... although I found wind waker to be a complete bore, hated that fucking boat (filler) crap. Well... maybe I need to try again. I've tried 3 times to go through it and as soon as it gets to that sailing around crap I fall off of it.

I don't hate the 64, just don't love it either. I don't think it deserves any real credit in game console history... just a few of it's games might.

Jonathan Ingram · Post by **Jonathan Ingram** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:37 pm

A few N64 games that I think are still very playable today:

Paper Mario
Doom 64
Kirby 64
Mischief Makers
Harvest Moon 64
Wonder Project J2
Fuurai no Shiren 2
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: Majora`s Mask
Bakuretsu Muteki Bangai-O

And... And I can`t think of anything else at the moment.

The N64 wasn`t completely worthless and in the end it did manage to muster up a small selection of games worth owning, but owning the N64 alone in that era would`ve meant subjecting yourself to a very harsh gaming diet compared to the feast that existed on other systems.

shmups.system11.org

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