XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Konsolkongen]

Mars Matrix CPS2 is completely stutter-free on my current setup

[RGB32E]

I tried out the XRGB-mini with the Wii U. I don't see much of a point using the Wii U with the mini:
1. Might be some settings on the mini, but HDMI picture quality is reduced overall (even if just using as a pass through)
2. When setting HDMI 480p output, the Wii channel and games have extra filtering the original Wii HW never had. This makes for a softer picture. If you're looking for nice sharp pixels for Wii games, it isn't going to happen with the Wii U via the mini.

I tried Mad World (480i Wii game) and it looks like games are de-interlaced when the Wii U is set to 1080p (likely with all resolutions). I didn't notice any hints of field tearing/feathering or significant input lag. As far as the scaling goes, I did notice that some colors cast yellow. For instance, the left side of the next/previous Wii channel arrows (where the + / - circles pop into).

The Wii U doesn't offer the improvements I was looking for playing Wii titles, but seems fine overall. Perhaps the GameCube-less Wii's scale better with the XRGB-mini (newest/last rev)? Or perhaps using a component/d-terminal cable would disable filtering on the Wii channel (doubt it).

[Thjodbjorn]

Does anyone have experience with using the Framemeister with a Samsung TV? I recently got a Panasonic ST50 plasma which works perfectly with everything I throw at it (MVS, NGCD), but I can't stand the awful vertical banding these sets suffer badly from this year.
I'm now considering swapping it for a Samsung E6500 plasma, which is about the same price-range, but has much better screen uniformity.

I have a PN51d550C1, and it works pretty great with it.

[Fudoh]

@RGB32E: could you take a screenshot of a WiiWare 2D title like Contra or Castlevania running in 1080p on the Wii U ?

[Konsolkongen]

I have a PN51d550C1, and it works pretty great with it.

Sounds good! Have you noticed any stuttering when using the normal consoles like SEGA's and Nintendo's? Do you have any experience with MVS?

EDIT: Have you ever needed to switch the XRGB's sync mode from Auto to OFF?

[Thjodbjorn]

I haven't noticed any issues with the Saturn or Dreamcast, and don't have any nintendo systems besides the Wii yet. I haven't had any issues with MVS, and I haven't bothered to turn sync off. Not sure if I'm much help, sorry.

[Konsolkongen]

No you're of great help If the MVS is running fairly smooth then it sounds very promising. On the Panasonic the MVS would stutter a little bit, but nothing that ruined the gameplay.

I'm sending my Panasonic back today, and I'm going to buy the E6500 instead

[Shining]

Thanks alot for the impressions RGB32E. I don't think i will be getting a Wii U at launch.

[guldberget]

I have a question for those who know before I do something I might regret. If I have a PAL console with a rgb cable and a PAL game that allows you to switch between 50 and 60 hz (eg Dragons Blaze on ps2 or Gunbird 2 on DC), will the mini treat it as a ntsc game if it's set to 60 hz, with all the benefits of that, or will it still treat it as PAL?

Thanks!

[BuckoA51]

The mini (and any other device/display) will then treat the signal as 60hz of course.

The problems come when setting older PAL machines (Megadrive, SNES) to output 60hz. The sync timings can be off by a fraction, sometimes enough to cause stuttering that wouldn't be present on a true NTSC machine.

[guldberget]

Thanks! I thought so but didn't want to chance it.

[Smashbro29]

Seriously considering one of these once I can rally the funds, it seems like it'll take any signal I give it and improve it quite a bit.

I'm only seeing one issue and that's that there is no VGA input. How would I get the best out of my Dreamcast on this thing? VGA to component?

[Fudoh]

The Front RGB input will take 31khz as well. You just need to convert from RGBHV to RGBs using a Sync converter.

[Smashbro29]

That's not gonna look as good as getting VGA in there somehow.

[Fudoh]

why do you assume that ? It's just a sync conversion, not a scan conversion. 31khz RGBHV vs. 31khz RGBS really doesn't matter. If you're really picky, then 31khz RGBs even trumps 31khz 480p component (because of 3 color channels against 2 color channels).

You can even do a passive RGBHV to RGBs conversion using a simple little circuit shown some pages back.

[Smashbro29]

Bottom line: It'll make everything look really freaking nice and I won't have to spend a fortune to do it?

I got 4 old systems hooked into one of those Madcatz SCART selectors (those are great, I wish I could find another)

A Wii and PS2 going in through component via a switch

I know I'm in the clear as far as those go but I'm a bit confused about the Dreamcast, what do I use? All I've got is a VGA box.

[Auction_Sniper]

Hi there,

I've recenlty picked up a Framemeister, and the quailty is crisp on my Saturn and Neo Geo AES.

The only thing that bugs me is the slight amount of overscan at the top and bottom. I've tried using the H_WIDTH and V_WIDTH to try and stretch it out, but the setting does not seem to work (The numbers increase but the image stays at the same size) - is this fixed in newer firmware, or do I need to select a specific mode to allow the width options to stretch it image?

[Fudoh]

I know I'm in the clear as far as those go but I'm a bit confused about the Dreamcast, what do I use? All I've got is a VGA box

If your scart switcher is good enough you simply use a VGA + audio to Scart cable which includes a sync combiner circuit.

The only thing that bugs me is the slight amount of overscan at the top and bottom.

If you stretch the image vertically, the scanlines won't work anymore. At least not as long Micomsoft doesn't change the implementation.

[Smashbro29]

A VGA and audio to SCART cable exists? That's crazy. I'm gonna need more Madcatz SCART selectors....

http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-roundup/

Apparently it's called the Mad Katz Universal RGB SCART System Selector. I wanna daisy chain as many of those as I can/need to. Unpowered and perfect? Sign me up.

[ZellSF]

Hi there,

I've recenlty picked up a Framemeister, and the quailty is crisp on my Saturn and Neo Geo AES.

The only thing that bugs me is the slight amount of overscan at the top and bottom. I've tried using the H_WIDTH and V_WIDTH to try and stretch it out, but the setting does not seem to work (The numbers increase but the image stays at the same size) - is this fixed in newer firmware, or do I need to select a specific mode to allow the width options to stretch it image?

AUTO_SCALER should probably be off. Make sure you're actually modifying H_WIDTH and V_WIDTH and not H_SCALER and V_SCALER.

You also need to wait a second or two after changing the value for it to actually do anything.

[Fudoh]

A VGA and audio to SCART cable exists?

no, but you can make one or have somebody make one (or more) for you.

[BuckoA51]

Apparently it's called the Mad Katz Universal RGB SCART System Selector. I wanna daisy chain as many of those as I can/need to. Unpowered and perfect? Sign me up.

Good luck finding one these days. Also, I'd avoid daisy chaining unpowered switches if possible (in fact avoid it altogether if you can, but yeah I know, often you can't).

You can always use ArcadeForge's UMSA for your Dreamcast http://www.arcadeforge.de/index.php?cPa ... efiuhdd1o4

Little bit overkill but will do the job.

[Smashbro29]

Apparently it's called the Mad Katz Universal RGB SCART System Selector. I wanna daisy chain as many of those as I can/need to. Unpowered and perfect? Sign me up.

Good luck finding one these days. Also, I'd avoid daisy chaining unpowered switches if possible (in fact avoid it altogether if you can, but yeah I know, often you can't).

You can always use ArcadeForge's UMSA for your Dreamcast http://www.arcadeforge.de/index.php?cPa ... efiuhdd1o4

Little bit overkill but will do the job.

Oh my god it's you!

I'm just trying to piece everything together before I have enough for the framemeister so I can just ease into it, right now I have all my systems hooked in via RGB SCART to a Madcatz SCART selector except the Wii/PS2/etc that's hooked in via component via a switch. I know the frame meister takes component and that's great, which SCART switch can I actually find at a fair price these days?most of them seem very pricey.

[BuckoA51]

Which SCART switch can you find at any price these days? Every time I seem to find a good one they get a rush on them and they sell out.

Probably your best bet is the Keene SCART commander. My only complaint with that is that it is a tiny bit fiddly to take it off auto mode, and auto mode absolutely will not work with Megadrive/Genesis.

If you can solder you could always do what several more resourceful folks have done and that's chop off the SCART block altogether and custom wire your own D-Sub15 setup and then use VGA switches.

I'm actually upgrading my amp today into something that can handle 5.1 LPCM (yeah, thanks Nintendo) so today while everything's upturned I might get the capture card set up to do some captures of various SCART switches, so you can see exactly how much quality loss there is on each one I have access to.

[ijed]

Would you guys recommend this upscaler for ps2 games? For 480i games like hitman or DMC? I'm contemplating getting the Framemeister or the DVDO Edge.

[RGB32E]

http://www.nintendo.com/wiimini/

Only available in Canada for now. Could have better component video output to scale with the mini!? I haven't performed the Wii to Wii U data transfer yet, so no pictures of Castlevania or Contra on the Wii U. I tried playing The Last Story on the Wii U and it actually looks pretty decent when scaled by the Wii U to 1080p.

[Artemio]

My findings with the Wii U are very different.

1) The Wii U Wii upscaler, when dealing with 4:3 material, stretches it to fill 1080p and each pixel is scaled in a 5:4 aspect ratio as a result.
2) With Wii games in 480p and 16:9 aspect ratio, the image is filtered heavily. Comparing both at the same time, with the same game and on the TV via a mini, and a DVDO Edge makes this more than obvious.
3) Wii video options are completely removed from the Wii environment, they only follow the Wii U settings. As a result there is no support for 240p as with the Wii, either via HDMI or Component.

My advice is to use the Wii with a scaler, CRT or 480p set, and not the Wii U for that purpose, unless no scaler is available and the Wii U does a better job than the TV.

[ZellSF]

Are you telling the Wii U to output 1080p? You keep saying 480p so I'm wondering if you tried that.

Another fun thing to consider for people considering Wii U as Wii replacements: you'll lose Dolby Pro Logic II surround sound.

1) The Wii U Wii upscaler, when dealing with 4:3 material, stretches it to fill 1080p and each pixel is scaled in a 5:4 aspect ratio as a result.

Do you mean it stretches to fill the entire screen? Maybe there's no way to actually tell if a Wii title is running in 4:3 or not and that's why Nintendo had to do it that way.


This is getting really off-topic...

So we are expecting more XRGB-mini firmware updates at some point right?

[Artemio]

Are you telling the Wii U to output 1080p? You keep saying 480p so I'm wondering if you tried that.

Of course I did.

Another fun thing to consider for people considering Wii U as Wii replacements: you'll lose Dolby Pro Logic II surround sound.

Yes indeed, unless you set up the Wii U to output stereo, and handle it form there. In surround mode it outputs LPCM in 6 channels, with the Wii audio in the L & R positions.

1) The Wii U Wii upscaler, when dealing with 4:3 material, stretches it to fill 1080p and each pixel is scaled in a 5:4 aspect ratio as a result.

Do you mean it stretches to fill the entire screen?

Yes, it does so.

[Konsolkongen]

So we are expecting more XRGB-mini firmware updates at some point right?

I know I am. There's still plenty to fix.