Hardest. Shooters. Ever.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:57 pm

I'm surprised no one else here has mentioned Hellfire. Has SOMEONE here actually been able to beat the Genny version (without cheats)?

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:21 am

OmegaFlareX wrote:Game description for Leigon (PCE CD) from thewestexit.net:

Absolutely awful shooting from Riot... just try to last 30 seconds in this game
I've never played it but the general consensus is that your ship moves so fucking slow that you can't dodge ANYTHING.

Yea, your ship moves slow...you're supposed to let the enemies tire themselves out from dancing.

fenrirwolf · Post by **fenrirwolf** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:31 am

Yes, I have to second tehkao, Hellfire might be old school but the Genesis version requires pretty much absolutely perfect memorization in order to beat. It's also got a case of the "you-die-your-fucked" syndrome too, though maybe not quite as bad as, say, R-Type.

I do agree though, TF2 was the hardest of the TF series. TF3 is the easiest, and TF4 is somewhere in between. TF4 just gets really claustophobic near the end. (That damn indestructable robot almost always gets me at least once.)

Dragon Spirit (old version) is also really cheap -- die on the last stage, and you go back not one but TWO stages.

Some of the late-90s games, like Blazing Star, I enjoy even if I feel it gets a little cheap after level 5. Haven't tried Pulstar yet, but seems I'm in for an ass-raping judging from people's comments about it...

I haven't played a lot of the manic shooters, so they're all pretty much impossibly hard for me.

drohne · Post by **drohne** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:58 am

i'm terrible at most psikyo games, and i'm not sure why. maybe the hitboxes are a bit bigger, maybe the bullets tend to be faster. i can hardly get to 1-5 on strikers 1945 II or gunbird II, and that's if i use bombs left and right. i've only had the chance to play strikers 1999 a few times, but that seems even harder. dragon blaze looks gorgeous, but i'm sure i'll be hopeless at it. sengoku blade and strikers 1945+ i'm pretty decent at, though again, i'm not sure what the difference is.

image fight is perfectly impossible. and as people have mentioned, if you lose your power-ups in level 7 of r-type, you might as well quit.

lately i've been playing xevious 3d/g, and making no progress whatsoever. it doesn't seem like it should be that hard, but i'm finding it so. if i'm doing well, i'll see the boss of level 3. i'm having a lot of fun with it, though. people don't seem to talk about it much, but it's really a nifty update.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:29 am

Hey drohne!!

Where the heck did you come from? Are you following me around??

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:27 am

I have a very different way of defining difficult than most of you. It is completely objective.

-If I can get past level 3 on 1 CC = easy
-Can get to, but not beat the 3rd level = normal
-Cannot get to the 3rd level boss = hard
-Cannot beat the second level boss = very hard
-Cannot get to the second level = HOLY SHIT!

I haven't played a HOLY SHIT! shooter yet, but DOJ is still at 'very hard' for me. I don't get the problem with Battle Garegga despite all the complaining about rank since I can get past level 3 on one credit (though using a little rank management (IE not picking up items).

Mars Matrix used to piss me off because the 4th level started getting really hard. Now days I expect a shmup to kick my ass before I even see level 4.

EDIT: I guess I need an extra rank 'extremely hard' for Gradius 2 since I've never seen the boss for the second level (ouch!!!)

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:50 am

-Cannot get to the second level = HOLY SHIT!

Some of the "HOLY SHIT" shmups I've played that fall into that category are:

Truxton
Truxton 2
Twin Cobra

Actually..now that I think about it there's a lot of Toaplan shooters where I have trouble getting to the second stage on 1 CC....

chtimi-CLA · Post by **chtimi-CLA** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:11 am

tehkao wrote:I'm surprised no one else here has mentioned Hellfire. Has SOMEONE here actually been able to beat the Genny version (without cheats)?

i didn't. it is manageable up to stage 6, where you're overwhelmed with long to kill big ships, if you die you're naked and don't stand a chance.
also, twin cobra is not that hard except the MD version.
some others tough ones:
-biometal (SNES,SAT (dezaemon2)): brutal from stage 2
-dangun: hard because it very fast and you have to be 100%¨concentrated all the time
-super star soldier: never beat stage 5 or 6

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:23 am

Gaiares is not hard, I've 1-lifed that game on hard and I know others who have as well. The game gives you shields and generous amounts of them for crying out loud. Legion isn't so much hard as it is unbalanced. Like the first level is pretty rough, the second level is moderate, the 3rd level is cake, but then the 4th level is tough again. Now Rayxanber 2, that is a hard game, obviously for its crap challenge but it strangely has its appeal. I could never get past the fifth level because the ships would always fly right through the organic stuff you have to shoot to get through and into you.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:56 am

Nemo wrote:Gaiares is not hard, I've 1-lifed that game on hard and I know others who have as well. The game gives you shields and generous amounts of them for crying out loud. Legion isn't so much hard as it is unbalanced. Like the first level is pretty rough, the second level is moderate, the 3rd level is cake, but then the 4th level is tough again. Now Rayxanber 2, that is a hard game, obviously for its crap challenge but it strangely has its appeal. I could never get past the fifth level because the ships would always fly right through the organic stuff you have to shoot to get through and into you.

I beat it it on normal,(Gaiares) not really a 1Lifer...at least I don't think I did.
Its tough, but not that TOUGH...still it can be brutal if you don't know where those shields are located.
I always took the upper route...same with Darius!

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:23 am

postman wrote:The MSX Konami ports of Gradius and Salamander, with Salamander being the nastier.

Also Rezon, which has been mentioned, the first two R-Types.

That's pretty funny, since Salamander on the MSX is the only game I ever
1 CCed (Actually 1 lifed!). I suck at shmups these days but I guess I can at least be proud of that 1 occasion then...

Post by **system11** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:00 am

fenrirwolf wrote: I do agree though, TF2 was the hardest of the TF series. TF3 is the easiest, and TF4 is somewhere in between. TF4 just gets really claustophobic near the end. (That damn indestructable robot almost always gets me at least once.)

I thought TF4 was easily the hardest, TF2 I can complete, TF3 I can walk all over and rack up a whole collection of spare ships by the end. TF4 I still can't beat.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:42 am

Has to be Twin Hawk. It was manufactured in hell.

Invisible bullets and possibly the slowest and largest ship in the history of shmups.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:54 pm

fenrirwolf wrote:Yes, I have to second tehkao, Hellfire might be old school but the Genesis version requires pretty much absolutely perfect memorization in order to beat. It's also got a case of the "you-die-your-fucked" syndrome too, though maybe not quite as bad as, say, R-Type.

Yeah, I forgot Hellfire. I've played that game a very significant number of hours and can't get past level 2.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:30 pm

Super Laydock wrote:
postman wrote:The MSX Konami ports of Gradius and Salamander, with Salamander being the nastier.

Also Rezon, which has been mentioned, the first two R-Types.
That's pretty funny, since Salamander on the MSX is the only game I ever
1 CCed (Actually 1 lifed!). I suck at shmups these days but I guess I can at least be proud of that 1 occasion then...

Damn! I have trouble getting past of level 1 of MSX Salamander! That game is unbelievebly hard!

I have finished it using a invencibility cheat though..

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:30 pm

chtimi wrote:
tehkao wrote: -biometal (SNES,SAT (dezaemon2)): brutal from stage 2

seconded. that game can kiss my ass!

dragon spirit on Tg-16. hit box is huge (whole sprite?) and if i lose my power-ups at level ... forget it, that shit is getting switched off.

pretty much all the other shooters i could complain about are only still hard cause i don't practice (DDOJ, Gradius Gaiden, Gradius 5, Harmful Park, Gunbird 2, Strikers 2 and the list goes on). i really need to learn how to work on "a game."

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:38 pm

R-Type II
Gradius III (Arcade)

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:50 pm

GIII arcade owns all.

There were only 2 people in Japan ever to reach 10 million points in this game.

Hardest game ever made.

KrazyJoker · Post by **KrazyJoker** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:26 am

For me, that hardest shmup I've ever played belongs to either the Gradius series or the R-Type series. But then again, Layer Section was pretty damn challenging for me too. I've owned LS for 4 years now, and I still haven't beat it! lol

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:41 am

I think that Game Tengoku must surely rank as one of the toughest shmups ever, if not THE toughest cute-em-up/parody shmup ever.

If Gravitar can be counted as a shmup, then that ranks first for me. The original Space Inavders is not far behind, and Gradius III is up there too.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:31 am

TWITCHDOCTOR wrote:
Nemo wrote:Gaiares is not hard, I've 1-lifed that game on hard and I know others who have as well. The game gives you shields and generous amounts of them for crying out loud. Legion isn't so much hard as it is unbalanced. Like the first level is pretty rough, the second level is moderate, the 3rd level is cake, but then the 4th level is tough again. Now Rayxanber 2, that is a hard game, obviously for its crap challenge but it strangely has its appeal. I could never get past the fifth level because the ships would always fly right through the organic stuff you have to shoot to get through and into you.
I beat it it on normal,(Gaiares) not really a 1Lifer...at least I don't think I did.
Its tough, but not that TOUGH...still it can be brutal if you don't know where those shields are located.
I always took the upper route...same with Darius!

Most people might already know, but if you fire your weapon absorber at a shield power-up rather than just touching it with your ship, you get 5 hits from it instead of 3. It helps when you fight the Amazon Chic of Doom.

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:37 am

i thought mars matrix was pretty hard.
ddpdoj also gets really hard after level 3.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:42 am

Hmm..I'm trying to arrange all the shmups I can think of in terms of difficulty groups:

Easiest - Most 16bit console shmups (Genny/SNES/PCE) and most arcade shmups from the 16bit era.

Hard - Famicom, earlier arcade shmups (Gradius, Salamander, 1942 etc)

Harder - Most modern manic shmups.

Hardest - Toaplan shmups.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:43 am

Yes, I already knew about that shield snagging trick since back in the days of 16 bit...but hey, thanks for sharing.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:12 am

"Truxton II/Tatsujin Oh. Not so much bullet-spam per se....just a nice helping of extremely long stages with that ever-so-popular "die and yer fuxx0red" gameplay. "

I would disagree with this one. I'm not saying it's easy, but at least it has weapons that cover your ship's sides and back pretty well, and doesn't throw so many enemies at you from those angles. I think Truxton/Tatsujin is MUCH harder, unless there is a weapon that, when fully powered up, gives you any kind of decent coverage. I have the superplay video of Tatsujin-Oh downloaded from that FTP site that was up; it's impressive, but not NEARLY as impressive as a superplay video of Truxton/Tatsujin would be!

The reason why so many people have mentioned Thunder Force IV are the enemies that come out of nowhere and slam into your ship. It starts on the first stinkin' level, too!

Mars Matrix is definately the hardest Dreamcast shmup I've ever played. Mainly because of the bullet reflect system-in Gigawing 1 and 2 you just push the bullets in the direction you want them to go in, after your reflect force is on. In Mars Matrix, the bullets reflect in the opposite direction that you move in, which makes the game, IMO, a real pain to play sometimes.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:27 am

I almost forgot-1943, arcade version. I'm sure that someone out there's 1CC'd this beast, but I'm equally sure that that person now has a guide dog.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:07 am

Viewpoint is pretty effin hard too. Has anyone been able to beat this game or even *gasp* 1-cc it? I couldn't even get past stage 4.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:25 am

Namco's Final Blaster (1990- PCEngine) is the kind of game that sets out looking like a refreshing Xevious update. Then around level 4 it sneaks up behind you and gives a good poke.
I tried it again after months of hiatus and...oh, yeah. Bitch.

Lots of memorization and tactics and don't you dare get killed once.

Can't help but think about when I view the manual and observe the killer illustrations of the "swiss army knife" -style wing config on the ship...what an awesome candidate for an update/sequel. I'm sure Namco's capable of it...maybe after Tekken 7...?

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:31 am

I didn't find Twin Cobras as obscenely hard as mentioned here, though it is defitely in my very hard catagory.

The truxtons however do get the HOLY SHIT rank, even though I've seen the second level of truxton 2(that is, I've beat the first boss, there aren't really levels as far as I can tell...). Yes, a simple code change of this game that only knocked you down a level (like in fireshark) would make this game (and the original truxton) infinitely more approachable. Clearly, you simply cannot die in this game. I don't think this is the kind of difficult we are talking about though...

drohne · Post by **drohne** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:19 am

hey, tehkao. i've actually been reading this forum (and its two previous incarnations) for a long time, but i don't post that often.

layer section gets points for unfair difficulty, come to think of it, just for that final boss. i used to be able to get to him on one credit, and then i'd have to spend a few credits to beat him. ridiculous. i gave up on the 1cc, of course.