Once upon a time I had a website (that very few people went to, but that's beside the point), and I put up an article on what I thought the ten HARDEST shooters ever made.
Now that I am working on another couple of websites, I want to rewrite the article. In my original article, I grouped series of shooters together so that one series would not end up dominating the list.
My original list was:
10: Layer Section (series)
9: Thunderforce (series)
8. Darius (series)
7. Pulstar
6. Ikaruga
5. Radiant Silvergun
4. Last Resort
3. Viewpoint
2. R-Type (series)
1. Gaiares
Now I realize that difficulty is purely subjective. What someone may find easy, someone else may find very difficult.
So my question to all of you is what do you feel is the hardest shooter(s) you've ever played, and what makes them so hard?
Hardest. Shooters. Ever.
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FatalError
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BulletMagnet
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As you say, it depends on what you define as "hard"...is it "hard" in the sense that the game is fair but demanding, or "hard" in the sense that the thing just loves to cheat you? I know I've seen people here mention a few older shmups (was it one of the Rayxanber games? I forget) which they called (verbatim) "stupid hard." The question, to me, is where does the challenge come from: is it hard-to-see bullets, a wonky ranking system, inadequate weapons, or something else? In addition, the challenge found in "memorizer" shmups and "manic" ones is completely different...
Personally, I tend to only use the term "challenging" on shmups which I feel are tough but fair: of course, there are those who raise cries of "n00b" and "wuss" at the fact that I don't view every shmup as a perfectly-balanced challenge, but oh well. Off the cuff, I'd say that DoDonPachi Dai-ou-jou was pretty hard: the previous two games in the series were tricky too, but this one's a definite step up in the challenge level. I'd also agree on Silvergun, and Ikaruga to a lesser extent...I'd need to think a bit to come up with more.
Personally, I tend to only use the term "challenging" on shmups which I feel are tough but fair: of course, there are those who raise cries of "n00b" and "wuss" at the fact that I don't view every shmup as a perfectly-balanced challenge, but oh well. Off the cuff, I'd say that DoDonPachi Dai-ou-jou was pretty hard: the previous two games in the series were tricky too, but this one's a definite step up in the challenge level. I'd also agree on Silvergun, and Ikaruga to a lesser extent...I'd need to think a bit to come up with more.
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Thunder Force
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Re: Hardest. Shooters. Ever.
What really pissed me off about Gaiares (great game) is the penultimate boss seems to be almost unbeatable without heaps of luck since he attacks randomly and can kill you instantly. Getting stuck there after working so hard to reach him is just anguish.
Im find "Image Fight", "Dragon Blaze" & "Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou" to be very tough.
Ikaruga review now up in PLASMA BLOSSOM
Hard games?
Where to start....
Battle Garegga. Swarms of brown bullets against grey/brown/red backgrounds leading to many 'wtf' moments, along with a ranking system so fascist that it encourages suiciding as a gameplay tactic. That goes wholly against shmup traditions - killing yourself on purpose.. Great game, sadly spoiled.
Rezon. R-Type clone. Weapons are not up to the job of killing, neither are the controls. Pointlessly difficulty even compared to.....
R-Type II. Get to level 4. Die. Repeat. Seriously hard even when you have the levels memorized.
Do Don Pachi Dai Ou Jou. I was going to list DDP, it's the first true swarmer that really beat people up. However, DOJ takes it to extremes we will possibly never see again. Crazy bulletspam in normal mode, and it's -fast- spam too, plus rank increases for using the Hyper items that you're forced to use when trying to bomb, if you picked one up. Insanely hard.
Gradius III. Hm. I've died, and now I have a slow ship and no weapons. Has the most difficult death recovery in the series.
Ikaruga. If you find it hard to switch concentration between white and black, you're going to get absolutely nowhere in this one.
Darius Gaiden. Bosses that fire lots of nasty things at you, and also take 20 minutes to kill. Not amused.
Radiant Silvergun. Dishonourable mention here. Great game, not unfairly hard, even in Saturn mode with all stages. Then you reach the final boss. All of a sudden your 1cc single life run ends, at the hands of one of the most deeply unfair bosses ever.
There are others.
Where to start....
Battle Garegga. Swarms of brown bullets against grey/brown/red backgrounds leading to many 'wtf' moments, along with a ranking system so fascist that it encourages suiciding as a gameplay tactic. That goes wholly against shmup traditions - killing yourself on purpose.. Great game, sadly spoiled.
Rezon. R-Type clone. Weapons are not up to the job of killing, neither are the controls. Pointlessly difficulty even compared to.....
R-Type II. Get to level 4. Die. Repeat. Seriously hard even when you have the levels memorized.
Do Don Pachi Dai Ou Jou. I was going to list DDP, it's the first true swarmer that really beat people up. However, DOJ takes it to extremes we will possibly never see again. Crazy bulletspam in normal mode, and it's -fast- spam too, plus rank increases for using the Hyper items that you're forced to use when trying to bomb, if you picked one up. Insanely hard.
Gradius III. Hm. I've died, and now I have a slow ship and no weapons. Has the most difficult death recovery in the series.
Ikaruga. If you find it hard to switch concentration between white and black, you're going to get absolutely nowhere in this one.
Darius Gaiden. Bosses that fire lots of nasty things at you, and also take 20 minutes to kill. Not amused.
Radiant Silvergun. Dishonourable mention here. Great game, not unfairly hard, even in Saturn mode with all stages. Then you reach the final boss. All of a sudden your 1cc single life run ends, at the hands of one of the most deeply unfair bosses ever.
There are others.
Thunder Force IV. Even with enemy placement memorized, you're still likely to get picked off from one screen above you. And the bosses are sadistic sonsabitches.
Battle Bakraid. You can actually see your bullets now. And if you can't, you can change the color of your bullets on the fly. Isn't that convenient? Ok! Now dodge a shitload of 'em on the 2nd stage! Think of it as Garegga without the doodoo-colored bullets. And call me a n00b but if there's a definite rank system in this game, I can't spot it. It's just punishment the whole way through.
Mars Matrix. Granted, for those who know this game like the back of their hand, it's not that difficult. But for everyone else...woohoo. And like most other modern shmups, playing for score kicks the difficulty up a notch.
Truxton II/Tatsujin Oh. Not so much bullet-spam per se....just a nice helping of extremely long stages with that ever-so-popular "die and yer fuxx0red" gameplay.
Night Raid. If the cheap fire patterns don't get ya, the glitchy control will. Plus, I'm under the impression that the final boss was designed to completely fuck over your score, since it shoots multiplier icons at you about 100 at a time for some reason. That usually translates to losing a nice handful of points...or gaining some unwanted points, if you're playing for negative score.
Battle Bakraid. You can actually see your bullets now. And if you can't, you can change the color of your bullets on the fly. Isn't that convenient? Ok! Now dodge a shitload of 'em on the 2nd stage! Think of it as Garegga without the doodoo-colored bullets. And call me a n00b but if there's a definite rank system in this game, I can't spot it. It's just punishment the whole way through.
Mars Matrix. Granted, for those who know this game like the back of their hand, it's not that difficult. But for everyone else...woohoo. And like most other modern shmups, playing for score kicks the difficulty up a notch.
Truxton II/Tatsujin Oh. Not so much bullet-spam per se....just a nice helping of extremely long stages with that ever-so-popular "die and yer fuxx0red" gameplay.
Night Raid. If the cheap fire patterns don't get ya, the glitchy control will. Plus, I'm under the impression that the final boss was designed to completely fuck over your score, since it shoots multiplier icons at you about 100 at a time for some reason. That usually translates to losing a nice handful of points...or gaining some unwanted points, if you're playing for negative score.
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captain ahar
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I agree, the poor control in Night Raid is such a detriment to the game. If the play-control were as tight as Mars Matrix and Giga Wing 2, it would certainly make the game far more playable.Skyline wrote:Night Raid. If the cheap fire patterns don't get ya, the glitchy control will. Plus, I'm under the impression that the final boss was designed to completely fuck over your score, since it shoots multiplier icons at you about 100 at a time for some reason. That usually translates to losing a nice handful of points...or gaining some unwanted points, if you're playing for negative score.
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Blue Lander
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okay, i don't know about you guys but i can't get ANYWHERE on xexex. no matter how much i want to like it i really don't see how you can get through the 2nd level without using 3 continues (or more). also, in that level speedups show up EVERYWHERE and then next thing i know my guy is moving at light speed and i tap up and i hit the damn wall.
DoDonPachi is pretty hard but it's really fair about it. You just have to be good. I've 1CC'd it to the final boss, and if i can do it, anyone can.
Xexex just seems to unfair to me. At least on some of the games mentioned I can 1cc it somewhere, but Xexex once I hit the 2nd level it's OVER.
DoDonPachi is pretty hard but it's really fair about it. You just have to be good. I've 1CC'd it to the final boss, and if i can do it, anyone can.
Xexex just seems to unfair to me. At least on some of the games mentioned I can 1cc it somewhere, but Xexex once I hit the 2nd level it's OVER.
Not sure I really agree with Battle Bakraid being put in the "ridiculously hard" category. If anything, it's a lot easier than Batrider.
Yup, pretty unplayable. the link's 404'd.
Last edited by Vexorg on Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BulletMagnet
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Methinks you might want to have the cops drive by your house for awhile, since Rando is probably currently on his way to your house, bearing a large stick with nails in it.bloodflowers wrote:Battle Garegga...Great game, sadly spoiled.
It's a Raizing game, so of course it's got to have some paramount rank system or other at work in the background...Rando once listed what it was on the old forums, but I didn't save it, unfortunately. I do remember that it's not the same as Garegga's (i.e. the more bullets you shoot the harder things get), but it does depend on something, I forget what...skyline wrote:Battle Bakraid...And call me a n00b but if there's a definite rank system in this game, I can't spot it.
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DantesInferno
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OmegaFlareX
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TF 4 hard?
I dunno why so many people say TF4 is hard. My guess is they haven't played that many shmups. TF4 is not easy but it's a cakewalk compared to most modern manic shmups, heck actually most old school shmups are cakewalks compared to the modern ones.
If you manage your shields properly in TF4, you can get thru it pretty easily. Even Mania mode is quite beatable.
Heck I think even TF2 is much harder than TF4....
If you manage your shields properly in TF4, you can get thru it pretty easily. Even Mania mode is quite beatable.
Heck I think even TF2 is much harder than TF4....
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TWITCHDOCTOR
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I really cannot understand why some say that the ThunderForce series is "hard". Any shmup that provides a fair challenge with easy to memorize patterns, not to mention very generous about 1ups, really cannot be THAT hard.
Which is also why DoDonPachi is one of the easier modern manics.
The "hard" ones:
Pulstar..............its hard because you pretty much have to 1 life it.
R-Type..............same as above, lose powerups, forget about it.
Rayxamber II.....very strict patterns,weak weapons, see above
Gradius III (arcade)...see R-Type
Gaiares...............easy to develope patterns, but can be brutal.
Blazing Star.........no 1ups to look foreward to, mandatory death at stage 6
Strikers 1945 Plus (arcade defaults)... low number of initial planes,fast bullet sreads, slow moving planes, slight delay in bomb use.(not of the "ass saving" kind either)
I know there's more, but this should be enough to sink your teeth into for now.
Which is also why DoDonPachi is one of the easier modern manics.
The "hard" ones:
Pulstar..............its hard because you pretty much have to 1 life it.
R-Type..............same as above, lose powerups, forget about it.
Rayxamber II.....very strict patterns,weak weapons, see above
Gradius III (arcade)...see R-Type
Gaiares...............easy to develope patterns, but can be brutal.
Blazing Star.........no 1ups to look foreward to, mandatory death at stage 6
Strikers 1945 Plus (arcade defaults)... low number of initial planes,fast bullet sreads, slow moving planes, slight delay in bomb use.(not of the "ass saving" kind either)
I know there's more, but this should be enough to sink your teeth into for now.
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GaijinPunch
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I'll second Border Down, in that it has that "suicide is good" theory to it that goes against traditional shmups.
Ketsui anyone? Not QUITE as hard as DDP:DOJ, but at stage four it gets REALLY out of fucking hand. Definitely harder than the other Cave games... ESPRade is the only one I've not spent enough time on to comment.
Any Gradius that has no way to carry over your power ups. (R-Type comes to mind). Die once->Game Over.
Ketsui anyone? Not QUITE as hard as DDP:DOJ, but at stage four it gets REALLY out of fucking hand. Definitely harder than the other Cave games... ESPRade is the only one I've not spent enough time on to comment.
Any Gradius that has no way to carry over your power ups. (R-Type comes to mind). Die once->Game Over.