SHMUPMAME & Front-end

[mancity]

Hi people,

Long-time watcher, just finally decided to join.

Im a massive SHMUP fan and have been collecting (mainly JP Saturn) SHMUPS for some time.

My latest thing is trying to use a dedicated PC for MAME.

Iv'e decided upon SHMUPMAME as the input lag is very low and im very happy with it. My question though, and what im looking for help on please, is on frontends.

I have tried a few the the only ones iv'e really managed to get working with SHMUPMAME is Maximus Arcade and MALA. However, the problem im having is that using these frontends, I cannot alter the screen effects (scanlines, bilinear etc etc). I cannot see where the frontends are getting the settings from? Id have thought from SHMUPMAME's settings itself, but its not. Every game is starting with scanlines and I dont want that.

Can anybody shed any light on this at all please?


Cheers

[Op Intensify]

I've actually stopped using Shmupmame after learning that it can screw up the timing and priority of background graphics. I couldn't get the 1up item in Espgaluda until I switched to standard MAME.

[trap15]

ShmupMAME is, to put it quite simply, awful. Takes the awfulness of MAME and adds even more inaccuracy to make it somehow worse.

[Bananamatic]

I've actually stopped using Shmupmame after learning that it can screw up the timing and priority of background graphics. I couldn't get the 1up item in Espgaluda until I switched to standard MAME.

I couldn't get the 1up in galuda until I realized the damn item is invisible and not in one of the endstage turrets
I don't see a damn problem here

[mancity]

Hi guys,

Cheers for the info. Let me ask then, what version of MAME do you use then? The standard MAME really isnt any good for playing SHMUPS IMO.

Also, anybody know about my original question?


Cheers

[trap15]

I think the normal MAME is quite fine for shmups. I've not died because of laggy controls from it, at least.

[BPzeBanshee]

Never had any problems with Shmupmame myself other than the one regarding Ketsui's ship disappearing like everyone else already reported 50-kajillion times.

MAME Plus is probably the way to go these days though since Nimitz has pretty much abandoned it.

[mancity]

Never had any problems with Shmupmame myself other than the one regarding Ketsui's ship disappearing like everyone else already reported 50-kajillion times.

MAME Plus is probably the way to go these days though since Nimitz has pretty much abandoned it.

What's good about MAME Plus if you dont mind me asking? Does it have low input lag?

To be honest, it's not the emulator im questioning, it's how to get a front-end that I can edit the screen effects on.

[DJ Incompetent]

I use MaLa. Both shmupmames I have problems changing the settings even before I put MaLa in. I've had better results changing shmupmame's options through mame first, then exiting and changing the same settings booting up the shmupmame by-itself.

I've switched back to a newer Mame Plus since then. I only keep the shmupmames around to run some PGM games and Nebulus Ray for some reason.

[shmuppyLove]

I briefly futzed around with MaLa and HyperSpin.

Between the two, I think HyperSpin is the better looking one, but I'm not sure if it's still free?

At any rate, I just use my desktop PC for emulation so neither really made sense. I'm perfectly happy with MameUI and the basic GUIs that are included with things like bsnes or SSF.

Some of the newer emus like PCSX2, Dolphin and Demul can require a bit of tweaking from game to game, so it would be difficult to simplify them enough for a frontend. Older stuff is a lot more mature and doesn't really need adjusting, but even things like changing controller and save states might actually be way more difficult trying to manage through a frontend, so you have to consider all of that.

[BPzeBanshee]

What's good about MAME Plus if you dont mind me asking? Does it have low input lag?

To be honest, it's not the emulator im questioning, it's how to get a front-end that I can edit the screen effects on.

Since it's up to date with standard MAME you are able to use the HLSL effects (to what extent and what issues it may cause you I don't know, but the function I believe is there). I use it for custom buttons and autofire myself, but it does have some graphical settings to allow things like HQ2X in-game. I believe MAME Plus Extended has more fancier options as well but that one puts more emphasis on its own (horrible loading time) UI.

[mancity]

Cheers for the info guys,

Iv'e had a play around with different MAME's last night and I still think I prefer SHMUPMAME as the input lag seems least. Im prepared to accept the odd game may have graphical issues so id just not use them games on it.

Iv'e also found that I 'think' on a frontend, id need to pass commands or something through it to access filters, but im not sure at the moment as im struggling to find some info on it.

[BPzeBanshee]

Actually I think v3.0b of Shmupmame doesn't accept commandline arguments at all - and the UI is that of MAME 0.99 after all. One could go and use v2.2 but I know not how much better/worse off you'll be other than the obvious increase in performance requirements.

[PROMETHEUS]

ShmupMAME is, to put it quite simply, awful. Takes the awfulness of MAME and adds even more inaccuracy to make it somehow worse.

??? what on earth are you talking about man ?

ShmupMAME is really great, it takes the awesomeness of MAME and takes it to the next level with minimal input lag. There is a barely noticeable graphics glitch as a tradeback (thin black line that may flicker a bit on some rare parts of backgrounds). It emulates the games very accurately, significantly closer than any console port.

[cools]

Popcorn time.

[PROMETHEUS]

Popcorn time.

^^
I won't let people talk shit about one of the greatest voluntary work ever that propulsed the arcade genre in the west like nothing else has. Especially not with words that have nothing to do with reality.

[mancity]

PROMETHEUS....

Dont suppose you use a frontend with it and know anything about how to alter graphic effects through the frontend? (bilinear, scanlines etc)...

Worth a try

[AntiFritz]

I'm not claiming I'm a shmup pro at all but I've honestly never noticed input lag in normal versions of mame vs shmupmame.

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm not claiming I'm a shmup pro at all but I've honestly never noticed input lag in normal versions of mame vs shmupmame.

Depends on the game, most of them are only one frame of difference. More noticeable with stuff like Raiden (2/3 frames to nil) and stuff with horrendous input lag. It's not the only reason for use although it is the main 'feature'. Trust me, there's a reason two kajillion people in the Shmupmame thread said there was a difference in inputs.

[mancity]

The lag is extremely noticeable in Battle Garegga on standard MAME compared to SHMUPMAME.

[cools]

It's noticeable on the PCB as well.

[trap15]

ShmupMAME is, to put it quite simply, awful. Takes the awfulness of MAME and adds even more inaccuracy to make it somehow worse.

??? what on earth are you talking about man ?

ShmupMAME is really great, it takes the awesomeness of MAME and takes it to the next level with minimal input lag. There is a barely noticeable graphics glitch as a tradeback (thin black line that may flicker a bit on some rare parts of backgrounds). It emulates the games very accurately, significantly closer than any console port.

Popcorn time.

^^
I won't let people talk shit about one of the greatest voluntary work ever that propulsed the arcade genre in the west like nothing else has. Especially not with words that have nothing to do with reality.

I'll make you eat those words
(placeholder for when it's not 5:30)

[shmuppyLove]

The lag is extremely noticeable in Battle Garegga on standard MAME compared to SHMUPMAME.

I've found that by turning off all the refresh rate-altering options (Sync to refresh, vsync, and refresh speed), that the lag in Garegga and similar 'problematic' games (Bakraid, APB) is reduced to negligible. You get a bit of tearing sure, but this is preferable to the amount of lag normally experienced in these games with those options (as well as triple buffering) enabled.

[Matskat]

For my Mame computer, I use Hyperspin FE, in which I have modified the basic layouts for a vertical monitor orientation.

I can provide the art + the XML code I created for my menus if anyone wants it.

Here is a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bo6jLy ... ature=plcp

[mancity]

I cannot even get onto the Maximus Arcade forum to ask the question on there!

What other frontends are there that are very easy to use without any code please?

[DJ Incompetent]

For my Mame computer, I use Hyperspin FE, in which I have modified the basic layouts for a vertical monitor orientation.

I can provide the art + the XML code I created for my menus if anyone wants it.

Here is a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bo6jLy ... ature=plcp

Sexy!

Iiiiiii have a vert setup. I'll take the code and the preview vids lol; oh god I don't wanna go search for those one at a time

[Hagane]

Dunno, maybe it's just me imagining things but I can notice extra delay in regular MAME and FBA in Sengoku Blade compared to Shmupmame, and it throws my game off a lot.

[Ed Oscuro]

I recall Garegga having a lot of lag, too, but just playing around with the Iron Mackerel in both Shmupmame 2.2 as well as MAME Plus! 0.146u5 (Aug 21 2012), there doesn't seem to be any difference, I can tap-swap direction quickly in either.

I didn't use frame skip anymore because that is a flawed metric for actual play.

[trap15]

I'll make you eat those words
(placeholder for when it's not 5:30)

Ok, so, let me fully establish my point, and where my opinion diverges from yours, PROMETHEUS.

it takes the awesomeness of MAME and takes it to the next level with minimal input lag.

ShmupMAME is based on old versions of MAME, which tend to have significant issues; 0.99 (base of SM3.0b) has all sorts of emulation issues with audio and some graphical bugs. The base version of 2.2 isn't too old, so I can't give that as much flak. You are correct about it lowering input lag of MAME though by 1 frame in most cases, though.

It emulates the games very accurately, significantly closer than any console port.

Now, I understand your point about it being "accurate". You mean it plays with lag closer to the PCB. This, I can agree with you on, and is objectively true. However, console ports are either equal or better in this regard, since they neither have to hack around the lag of the host system (like you have to do for PC), and they don't need to emulate any sprite buffer since there isn't any (so they get even better reaction time than ShmupMAME, since you remove lag from the PC platform from the equation. It also doesn't have to cause background desync unlike ShmupMAME).

There is a barely noticeable graphics glitch as a tradeback (thin black line that may flicker a bit on some rare parts of backgrounds).

That's a very small issue that I don't think I've ever had; in fact, I think that's related to other hacks in ShmupMAME. The real issue with remove the sprite buffer is that it causes sprites that are "attached" to the background to move 1 frame delayed from the actual background, since the code would normally correct itself for the buffer. This is completely inaccurate; this never happens on a real PCB.

I won't let people talk shit about one of the greatest voluntary work ever that propulsed the arcade genre in the west like nothing else has.

[citation needed]
Seriously, where are you getting the idea that ShmupMAME "propulsed the arcade genre in the west"? It's as dead as it's ever been, and no shitty version of MAME is going to change that.

Especially not with words that have nothing to do with reality.

Unfortunately, they do have to do with reality. I do have to wonder why you defend ShmupMAME so intensely, considering you're not related to the project at all, and it provides such minimal benefit.

[Zeether]

SHMUPMAME killed my family.