XRGB-mini Framemeister

[BuckoA51]

This is great, because the C128 and C64 looked like ASS on the XRGB-3.

I never tried it with S-Video because I only had a PAL machine, if you transcoded S-Video to RGB it wasn't terrible, but that C64 S-Video jailbar effect was massively exaggerated. It is a good result for the Mini even though it should be better (should really work when the mini outputs 720p too).

try an NTSC Atari XL/XE that has had a PAL ANTIC swap and puts out NTSC-50 as a result.

No idea on that, why would you even do such a swap?

Not sure what that is But a modchip like the modbo 760 will play NTSC games in 60Hz.

Yeah I don't think I'll be changing modchips, too much hassle. The O2mod has some other excellent features such as launching elfs directly from memory card etc, just the PS1 stuff lets it down. I've a chipped PS1 somewhere I need to dig out. Every PS1 game that boots it boots with the "Sony Computer Entertainment Europe" logo, which then forces them to 50hz. The chip has a NTSC FORCE option but it only works for PS2 games. I never even knew until I hooked it to my Extron and the readout said 50hz and not 60. Anyway don't want to derail the thread.

[papa_november]

No idea on that, why would you even do such a swap?

It's absolutely necessary if you have an NTSC machine and want to watch PAL demos or run newer PAL-only games. Some new games/demos will work in NTSC, but not all of them.

It's a better idea to just get a PAL machine from the start, but just doing the ANTIC swap is cheaper than importing a complete European machine.

[fubarduck]

Random question . . . I have a Sigma AV6000 unit with an 8-pin full size DIN connector output for RGB, and I noticed the Framemeister uses 8-pin mini-DIN. Is there such a thing as an 8-pin DIN to 8-pin mini-DIN adapter so I could bypass the need for J-RGB cables?

If such a thing doesn't exist, and somebody had the pin out of the Framemeister's RGB input I could build one myself . . .

[fubarduck]

Also curious as to if you can use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to capture with the Framemeister or if a DVDO Edge is required for this.

[Zapf]

I don't think you can use the frame meister w/ a bmi yet

Random question . . . I have a Sigma AV6000 unit with an 8-pin full size DIN connector output for RGB, and I noticed the Framemeister uses 8-pin mini-DIN. Is there such a thing as an 8-pin DIN to 8-pin mini-DIN adapter so I could bypass the need for J-RGB cables?

If such a thing doesn't exist, and somebody had the pin out of the Framemeister's RGB input I could build one myself . . .

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... amemeister

[Plasia]

Did anyone do any lag tests?

240p, 480i, 480p, 720p at outputs of 480p/720p/1080p using different modes.

[MaxDOL]

trying now! (english works again btw)

Weird, mine still in japanese.

Will have to change back to 1.05.

[Fudoh]

the new FW always defaults to japanese. You have to change it manually in the LANGUAGE entry in the menu (last item in the main menu). After that power cycle and the OSD will be in english.

[MaxDOL]

the new FW always defaults to japanese. You have to change it manually in the LANGUAGE entry in the menu (last item in the main menu). After that power cycle and the OSD will be in english.

Ah power cycle.
Thanks, Fudoh

[RGB32E]

Micomsoft just released new firmware (v1.07A)! According to the notes, it's a minor update for users who are outputting DVI signals from the HDMI output connector.

http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm

Improve the problems connected DVI display rare blue noise shown on the screen. (v1.07A)

[pyrotek85]

Micomsoft just released new firmware (v1.07A)! According to the notes, it's a minor update for users who are outputting DVI signals from the HDMI output connector.

http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm

Improve the problems connected DVI display rare blue noise shown on the screen. (v1.07A)

Ah, I'll probably skip that for now since I'm using HDMI. I love that they're actively working on the firmware though, some companies put out a product and it's like they forget about it.

I'm still in awe at how well this works too, it's operation is so transparent to me that I forget it's even there (don't have to adjust things constantly).

[BuckoA51]

Is it just me or are the aspect ratio selection options back to front? i.e selecting 4:3 is actually outputting 16:9?

[anticipating]

Is it just me or are the aspect ratio selection options back to front? i.e selecting 4:3 is actually outputting 16:9?

Yes, it was noted back here.

[-SD-]

Does the Framemeister output unencrypted HDMI? I'd like to use it with an Elgato Game Capture HD if possible.

[Plasia]

Does the Framemeister output unencrypted HDMI? I'd like to use it with an Elgato Game Capture HD if possible.

90% sure that it just does whatever is passed to it. If you pass it unencrypted it will output unencrypted.


...

So anyone want to do some comprehensive lag tests?

[BuckoA51]

Definitely unencrypted (as long as what you feed in is unencrypted of course), I was able to capture using the Startech capture card from the Framemeister no problem.

[-SD-]

Cool. Thanks for the answers.

[Artemio]

So anyone want to do some comprehensive lag tests?

Sure, what's your plan? Of course the problem is eliminating the TV lag from the equation. I've already measured it in my TV: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ENQbnd6OGc

[Plasia]

Hmm that's a good start!

Some questions though:

What deinterlace mode did you use? Why is everything going through an Edge as well?

I also want to know results from component.

[Artemio]

What deinterlace mode did you use? Why is everything going through an Edge as well?

I also want to know results from component.

Not everything goes through the edge, when I did so it was in order to test it on a CRT that accepts SDI, which I converted from HDMI from the Edge. My HDMI to SDI converter didn't sync with the mini.

There is no way to test component with the mini though... Or do you mean the TV? In that case it is completely TV dependant.

[Plasia]

What deinterlace mode did you use? Why is everything going through an Edge as well?

I also want to know results from component.

Not everything goes through the edge, when I did so it was in order to test it on a CRT that accepts SDI, which I converted from HDMI from the Edge. My HDMI to SDI converter didn't sync with the mini.

There is no way to test component with the mini though... Or do you mean the TV? In that case it is completely TV dependant.

I'm confused, there's a d-terminal (which is a different plug for component) on the back of the mini??

In any case I'm a bit sad about these results, 2frame is a bit much

[BuckoA51]

2 frames does seem way too much when for instance the DVDO can manage around 6-8ms on progressive sources. Maybe this needs re-testing now that Micomsoft changed how the V-Lock works.

[Fudoh]

When I tested the Mini I got 32ms with V-Sync off and 24ms with V-Sync on.

[BuckoA51]

For the price and hype around the unit I had expected much better, considering this is designed as a unit for playing games on that's very poor. I'm certainly not selling my XRGB3 now.

[papa_november]

So I bought one! Let the problems commence!



Uhhhhhhhh....

EDIT:
Yes, this is the latest firmware.
No, I do not yet have an Extron and/or sync stripper in the chain, this is using a cable built to OEM specifications and using composite video for sync.
Yes, I am aware that only Sonic 2 uses this mode, and this issue only happens in that mode. Still, that kind of sucks.

EDIT II:
Just Google Translated the firmware release notes and like the Taito F3 problem, this is a known issue.

[grahf]

I was going to comment that it was a known issue, but I see you already found that out. Hopefully they fix it in the future. There has already been quite a number of updates since the release, so I'm hoping so.

[papa_november]

Tried a couple more systems:




Ran a couple of games and demos on both the Spectrum(+2B) and MSX(Panasonic FS-A1WX), no problems seen so far. I also tried the SNES and Saturn, and while both are a *little* on the blurry and noisy side I'm more than willing to live with it as they still look pretty damn great.

I am impressed by how well it's working with the MSX. With my XRGB-2+, it would take several hard reboots before I'd get a stable picture; here it seems stable all the time.

The most annoying thing I've seen so far is the excessive amount of time it takes for the Framemeister to resync whenever some systems change video modes, like when the Saturn goes from 480i to 240p and back again, or when some systems (like the NES) are power-cycled. I'm willing to live with that for now, I think - although I do hope it will be possible to cut the resync time down to something slightly less annoying someday.

[BuckoA51]

I'd intended to try the spectrum myself at some point. I find the Model 2 Saturn has a little noise no matter what I connect it to, it's really not that bad though I would like to try a Model 1 (though someone on the SSUK forum swears its a bad cable and there's no difference between model 1 and model 2 video output, since it's the best cable readily available I'm stuck with what I have).

SNES should be pretty much noise free with a Retro Accessories SCART, might be a tiny bit of ghosting around lines of bright text for instance but that's about all, though as discussed here different models have different sharpness.

[Konsolkongen]

The model 1 Saturn has a slightly sharper image than the model 2. I have tested both with the original SEGA cable.

I'm using a model 2 now and even though it's a tiny bit softer it's still one of the best looking systems I have tried on the Mini.

I have a 1chip EU SNES modified to 60Hz. It has a slightly better picture than my friends 1chip US SNES (using the same cable), but the ghosting on (all?) the 1chip's really annoys me. Not sure if I would like the softer picture of the older models better, but in either case I can't honestly say that the picture is that great

[Shining]

Qustion completely unrelated to the Mini:

When using a NES or Famicom hooked up with regular composite cables to any kind of display or source, is it common to have sync issues at the upper part of the screen? Like a twitchy 5mm thick horizontal line that is slightly tilting to the left. It's hard to describe so i'll post a pic tomorrow. It really annoys me and i've had the problem since i first got my AV Famicom. I've tried many different cables and even tried another power supply without any luck. Any insight or help appreciated.