Games similar To Hellsinker, Radio Zonde, Stella Vanity

[cuttingagent]

I've been digging the more complex weapon systems in these games. Are there any other quality titles of this nature?

[Zaarock]

Games I can think of with complex/technical weapon systems:

Radiant Silvergun
Kamui

also Einhander and Strania, but you pick up various weapons instead of having them to begin with in those games.

[Bananamatic]

similiar to Hellsinker, Radio Zonde

LSD, shrooms, acid

[Skykid]

similiar to Hellsinker, Radio Zonde

LSD, shrooms, acid

LOL

[cuttingagent]

Thanks. I love RS but haven't played the other ones.
Also Bananamatic: Ha! =D

[Aisha]

Join the handful of us waiting for ∀kashicverse. This is one of my most anticipated doujin shmups, alongside Stellavanity's next patch and Yakouga 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgWdYm6UCtM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL0iDSG0dtE

You can download the web trial here, but it's a bit outdated. The author said he'd release a new trial in April, but that hasn't materialized yet.

Apart from that, ring^-27, Ether Vapor: Remaster, and maybe Refrain ~prism memories~.

[Moniker]

Yeah, RefRain is fairly complicated. Also Alltynex 2nd has the RSG type weapon system. Judgment Silversword has shield/wide/linear and links score to attack type. Robot Witch Meglilo is a doujin from Astroport with Strania's system of dual-wielding and swapping.

For commercial games, the Milestone offerings are fairly complex w/r/t weapons: Radirgy, Karous, Chaos Field (available packaged on Wii as Ultimate Shooting Collection). Harmful Park (PSX/PSN) has weird as shit weapons too.

That's all I got off the top of my head.

PS: If you can explain how Hellsinker and Radio Zonde work in two sentences or less I'll forever be in your debt.

[Bananamatic]

Hellsinker is understandable as long as you focus on getting the enemy health to 0%
Radio Zonde is challenging as hell all the way from navigating the menu

[cuttingagent]

PS: If you can explain how Hellsinker and Radio Zonde work in two sentences or less I'll forever be in your debt.

I'll give it a go with Hellsinker, but I'm not sure if I'm even 100% right about this:

Hellsinker (at least in Minogame's case) seems to use a system of 2 attack buttons functioning on their own or in tandem, IE holding one and then pressing the other, along with a speed control button and a bomb, which each function independently of other buttons. Your main weapon can be held for a charged shot or tapped for rapid fire, but will interfere with your subweapon's ability to charge, at least between its first and second voice prompts ("shot" and "turboshot")

That's not a full explanation but I'm guessing it would be the most useful thing to know at first... besides the config and abstracted menu options. The voice prompting is genius too--who has time to look at the HUD?

Alternately, this explanation might be better for someone who picks it up for 5 minutes and never wants to play it again:

This game was designed to destroy and emasculate you, spit in your face, and send you back to boot camp so that one day you may emerge from the wreckage as a man, which you most certainly are not. It's not even harder than a regular danmaku once you have a firm grasp of the control systems and enemy behaviours, and laying the first boss to waste with a no-miss is all the more rewarding afterward.

Also, I suck at this game and I love every second of it.

[SuperSoaker360]

I've had Hellsinker for so long but I never actually got into it until about a few days ago. I finally decided to be patient with the game and slowly grasp the concepts. I suck at the game right now but I'm kicking myself for setting the game aside when I couldn't understand anything (the engrish menus didn't help). Seriously, after the game clicks in, it becomes a load of fun.

[Moniker]

Thanks, that actually does help quite a bit. I'll be sure to give it another go.

Alternately, this explanation might be better for someone who picks it up for 5 minutes and never wants to play it again

Yeah, my experience so far with Hellsinker:
-Holy shit a ton of config options. Fuck it, just launch. Nothing works. Rage quit.
-Holy shit a ton of config options. Okay, look at wiki translation. (15 mins later) Okay, launch game. Holy shit I have no idea what's going on in the menus. Fuck it, just play. Okay, killing stuff. What the fuck are these things with red circles? They won't die. Except when they do. Fuck. Rage quit.

My experience with Radio Zonde:
-Uh menus? Press buttons until something happens. A replay starts up. I can't exit it. At all. Force close.
-Okay, changed a few options. Pretty sure they're different from last time. A replay starts up. I can't exit it. Start sobbing in corner.


...I hope to improve upon these experiences one day.

[cuttingagent]

My first question with Zonde was actually 'why the hell do I have infinite lives!?!'

[AttObl]

My first question with Zonde was actually 'why the hell do I have infinite lives!?!'

If I recall correctly, there's a option that is like the settings section. When you go there, I think there's an option for lives. "Immortal" means infinite lives, and "Mortal" means limited lives.

I still don't know what "Savior" and "Destructor" means in Radio Zonde.

[cuttingagent]

Well the first two characters default to infinite lives, no matter what's chosen in the config, for some reason. Those two characters being the only two that are actually labeled in the menu, the rest are somewhat hidden. If course, I didn't even know I was supposed to select a character before I started playing. I'd already spent an hour getting the game to run in the first place so I was also a little spent mentally.

The guy's music is awesome, too. I love the Hellsinker soundtrack and I dig what I've heard of his on soundcloud.

[Zaarock]

Hellsinker (at least in Minogame's case) seems to use a system of 2 attack buttons functioning on their own or in tandem, IE holding one and then pressing the other, along with a speed control button and a bomb, which each function independently of other buttons. Your main weapon can be held for a charged shot or tapped for rapid fire, but will interfere with your subweapon's ability to charge, at least between its first and second voice prompts ("shot" and "turboshot")

That's not a full explanation but I'm guessing it would be the most useful thing to know at first... besides the config and abstracted menu options. The voice prompting is genius too--who has time to look at the HUD?

Minogame has a lot of weird moves, I'd say she is the second most complex character to use in the game. The invulnerability circle shot by charging A and then pushing B is pretty overpowered and gimmicky though (though comboing it does super low damage on later bosses to counter this).

Also, if you don't want complex attacks or want to listen to weapon charges, just unlock Kagura by beating stage 4 and use Kagura type 3. It plays like any shmup since you pretty much only shoot the main shot, but you can alter the spread of the shot whenever you want to and have a subweapon to attack to the sides.

But yeah, scoring system (spirit score) seems annoying as hell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLqdCuRGQc8 aura milking everything uugh

[Moniker]

Aw damn. I just remembered Hitogata Happa. It's on steam. Buy it. Prepare to get your mind blown.

/ontopic

[Barrakketh]

Aw damn. I just remembered Hitogata Happa. It's on steam. Buy it. Prepare to get your mind blown.

/ontopic

I need to get back to that game. Got stuck on one of the bosses (the one that can capture your dolls, had trouble bombing it and always ended up in Error Mode), got sidetracked by other things, and haven't gotten around to playing it again.

The few videos on Youtube I found while looking to see how other players dealt with it were all using Fortuner or Lovers and not bombing

[CptRansom]

Minogame has a lot of weird moves, I'd say she is the second most complex character to use in the game. The invulnerability circle shot by charging A and then pushing B is pretty overpowered and gimmicky though (though comboing it does super low damage on later bosses to counter this).

I found Minogame to be the only character aside from Kagura 3 that actually made any sense for me. I guess I'm weird. She's definitely the easiest character to clear the game with! Deadliar and Fossil Maiden completely confuse me.

Also, are all these totally clueless folks unaware of this? http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=26334

If there's ever an STG that I'd say to play more for completion/experience than score, it'd be Hellsinker. Seriously. If you insist on playing for score anyway, then just keep your rank high and don't die (especially in the Shrine). That Immortal bonus for collecting extra lives when you're capped on them ramps up pretty high.

[RNGmaster]

I personally see Fossilmaiden as the most user-friendly. She has that nifty bullet-cancelling strike when you tap A, and her bomb types are really useful and damaging. Plus you have a giant fucking flaming energy sword and that's kind of great.

[cuttingagent]

I feel most confident with Minogame. Even though I haven't completely figured her out, her weapon system just seems right to me, I get the best feeling that I've been given the tools I need to tackle the game. I mostly use her charged subweapon and bomb every few turns, regular fire only in emergencies. When I feel more confident with that I'll start firing my regular shot during the first charge interval. Not sure where to work in the complimentary attacks yet, I'm actually not even sure how to do both of them. Deadliar seems awesome but I just can't aim his mistletoe properly while dodging bullets. Fossilmaiden just hurts my head and I haven't unlocked Kagura yet, but I'll definitely be satisfied with my girl til I do.

I should probly check the other threads on here but since we're on the subject does anyone know HOW you take the behind routes??? Cause I seem to be doing it already(???)

On a sidenote I think it's a beautiful thing that a game this confusing would come out with no information in English, and the gaming community says 'NO. We are playing this fucking game,' and a wiki goes up and a translation effort goes into effect. I'm a beginner with Japanese but if I ever become proficient with the language I'll join a patch team just to return the favor. I can't imagine ever having been able to get into the game without the wiki.



I've played Hitogata Happa before but I had no idea it had a complex weapon system... thought it was just another shot and bomb combo. I really like Platine's games though. Royal Edoma Engine is awesome... in that most of the challenge for me is coping with danmaku in an isometric perspective. I like Engage to Jabberwock too but it's so incredibly frustrating to play. But I give them mad props for bringing bullet hell to other genres. Actually does anyone know more games that do that? I've played Touhou's fighting games, (Soku's 3rd fight--I can get so close to beating it but I get shut down every time.) and I looked at a Touhou fangame that was a bullet hell platformer, I woulda checked it out but I couldn't imagine it being very good. I wish Cave Story was like that. I could hella get into that.

[Zaarock]

I should probly check the other threads on here but since we're on the subject does anyone know HOW you take the behind routes??? Cause I seem to be doing it already(???)

You unlock the lead routes after you beat stage 4 as well. Also, I'd say the game only gets really good in the second half, as in starting at stage 5.. get ready for some surprises

I started playing the game before there was any useful english information about it, and everything after stage 5 blew my mind because I had like no expectations (got shrine of farewell first time after it as well).

[MathU]

I find playing Hellsinker for score quite enjoyable actually. Clearing it for the first time and with a decent score to boot is really rewarding. However, there is a limit for me; the extremely dull milking demonstrated in the world record scores isn't fun at all.

[Observer]

Mmmm, what parts are the ones that involve milking? Could you give some descriptions? Interested in checking this. I thought Hellsinker involved brutal boss battles that had you going through dozens of insane patterns against the clock rather than going for boss milking.

[Moniker]

But I give them mad props for bringing bullet hell to other genres. Actually does anyone know more games that do that?

Check out this thread for some good doujin platformers: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38074

A lot of the touhou ones are quite good, actually.

[MathU]

Mmmm, what parts are the ones that involve milking? Could you give some descriptions? Interested in checking this. I thought Hellsinker involved brutal boss battles that had you going through dozens of insane patterns against the clock rather than going for boss milking.

Basically it involves using that low-damage, high-spirit-raising attack that every character has (usually it's the aura from their main shot) at point-blank range on every enemy and body part you can think of in order to raise their spirit value as high as possible before destroying them. It's fun on certain things, but against bosses and other enemies with a lot of health it can be extremely tedious.

See the Dead Liar scoring video of Segment 1 & 2 Lead linked in this thread for some good examples. I like a good risk-reward system, but when the the biggest rewards result from nothing less than the absolute most rote of memorization due to being practically constantly on the edge of getting hit--safe only by memorizing exactly the form and timing of the next attack--it just isn't very appealing to me.

I have been enjoying getting higher and higher scores all the time in Hellsinker though. Ask me again a year later when I end up being perfectly fine with all this.

EDIT: On the other hand, maybe I'm just using the word "milking" improperly...

[Observer]

Interesting, gonna take a look at those videos!

Perhaps you got the meaning crossed? Boss milking usually occurs in bosses that don't time out since you can stay at a certain pattern ad nauseam to rack up scores. Especially if it's the kind of boss that casts plenty of enemies and shit. I thought some Razing games had this and Ether Vapor suffered too until Edelweiss patched this out and added a boss timeout timer (which I think should be mandatory to avoid this in the first place).

[cuttingagent]

I don't agree that it should be mandatory for that reason, although I do think it should be there, to facilitate pacifist mode.

[cuttingagent]

You can download the web trial here, but it's a bit outdated. The author said he'd release a new trial in April, but that hasn't materialized yet.

There's a new one up!